>TFW you realize that how hopelessly dependent on modern industrial scale manufacturing modern ammunition is

>TFW you realize that how hopelessly dependent on modern industrial scale manufacturing modern ammunition is
>TFW most people interested in guns are convinced otherwise due to the amount of post apocalyptic fiction that hand waves the issue away
How do you deal with this feeling? Without smokeless powder and drawn brass cases with solid heads and webs, you're effectively stuck with ammunition technology that was obsoleted in the 1880s.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Whoever gets a working chemical industry (Haber-Bosch and Ostwald processes) and starts making smokeless powder again will own the new world.

    Remember, technological progress is driven by need. Guns are one of the very first things you need.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      stockpile enough until civilization restarts

      Societal collapse to that level is essentially impossible. Also I've got like, 20+ pounds of black powder, molds, lead, thousands of primers, almost 20 pounds of NC propellants and tons of projectiles.

      It's not just the apocalypse though. War, laws, natural disasters, attacks by schizos who just want to start shit, and more could all significantly impact or completely sever the consumer supply of modern ammunition. It's not something like gasoline or other consumable goods that countries' economies would collapse without a constant supply of to the consumer market.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You know the same places that supply the military make civilian ammunition, right? Those supply lines aren't going anywhere.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >War
        Kinda have the opposite problem there, the one thing you'd have no shortage of was ammunition
        >Laws
        They still have a lot of steps before ammunition gets heavily regulated, by which time you should have had plenty of time to prepare
        >Natural disasters
        Aren't really big enough to effect an entire countries ammunition manufacturing capabilities, any natural disaster that could wipe out the entire US ammunition market would be a legitimately apocalyptic event
        >Attacks by schizos who just want to start shit
        See laws

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Kinda have the opposite problem there, the one thing you'd have no shortage of was ammunition
          For governments maybe, but not for civilians.

          >you should have had plenty of time to prepare
          Just stocking up on ammo really isn't a viable approach if you shoot regularly. Most of the people who stocked up to avoid the impacts of another ammo shortage before 2020 have already burned through the ammo they had stocked up and are stuck dealing with the current ammo situation same as everyone else now.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It's not something like gasoline or other consumable goods that countries' economies would collapse without a constant supply of to the consumer market.
        The police and military both need ammo to defend against threats, keep order, and enforce law. They need a constant supply of ammo to practice their marksmanship so they can actually do that effectively. Any society which doesn't have this will eventually find itself counqered by a society that does. Ammo might not be as essential as gasoline but it's an essential supply nonetheless.
        Or, to quote Snowpiercer, THEY'VE GOT NO BULLETS!

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Cops don't fucking practice marksmanship lmao. They do one yearly qualification shoot that has very low standards and then MAYBE they shoot some crackhead holding a toothbrush 12 times.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The cops that matter (swat, executive protection, federal enforcement agents) do.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think getting a working Haber-Bosch process is more critical for food than smokeless powder. Odds there will be enough ammo to scavenge from corpses for a century if fertilizer production grinds to a complete halt.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Too many bodies due to starvation? Use the bodies as fertilizer. Duh anon.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    stockpile enough until civilization restarts

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Societal collapse to that level is essentially impossible. Also I've got like, 20+ pounds of black powder, molds, lead, thousands of primers, almost 20 pounds of NC propellants and tons of projectiles.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Societal collapse to that level is essentially impossible

      Blocks your path

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How do you deal with this feeling?
    I usually buy guns and ammo. Makes me feel better every time.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Even if the world collapses it's only gonna collapse for 5-10 years until some new civilisation emerges.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >you're effectively stuck with ammunition technology that was obsoleted in the 1880s.
    so? last i checked it still kills people

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You mistake what is profitable with what is possible. Just because today domestic smokeless production is highly concentrated, doesn't mean that it is the way it has to be. Smokeless is not particularly difficult by the standards of chemical technology, and drawn brass is even more of a nothingburger.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Smokeless is not particularly difficult by the standards of chemical technology
      isn't it just cotton soaked in acid?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Modern smokless is a triple-base formulation. But the most basic smokeless (guncotton AKA single -base) is something people can make at home.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >b-but you can make gun cotton at home
          Yeah, and then you can blow up your guns or have it spontaneously combust. No one who talks about making smokeless powder at home being totally doable on PrepHole has ever delivered.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You can find countless youtube videos on making home-made flashpaper. No one is going to "deliver" on something so simple.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Gun cotton is babby's first nitration. easy as piss, relatively safe. Making your own power grains is harder, but start with powder puff loads and work your way up. A 15 watt solar panel and a transformer will start making you "free" nitric acid as soon as tomorrow.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Modern smokeless is heavily-washed pure cellulose boiled in two very nasty acids, then the excess acid is pulled off and it's mixed with nitroglycerine and other chemicals before being shaped to pretty precise dimensions. The larger the batch, the more even the conversion is and the more consistent the resulting powder. You may also notice nitroglycerine there. It is not your friend. Neither is simmering nitric and sulfuric acids, which both have explosive vapors. If you don't feel like a multibase powder, you still need to simmer up a nice big pot of nitric acid. And for best results with single-base powders like Guncotton, you need to let the resulting powder age in small batches far away from UV light, moisture, and ambient heat. At which point it >probably< won't explode on its own and has time for the less pure celluloses to react. It'll still have unpredictable pressures, they'll just be a lot more even.
        Then there's primers, which are MOTHERFUCKERS to synthesize safely. They involve handling a shitload of highly-reactive lead compounds, or vile corrosive salts that have a bad habit of making things they're spilled on explosive/autoigniting later.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >at the peak of Mt. Stupid
      >calls others retarded

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Let's hear your argument for why you think drawing is an incredibly arcane technology, or why you think the slow emergence of a monopoly has any bearing on how easy it is to manufacture something. Go be stupid somewhere else.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not being a totally arcane technology doesn't mean it doesn't require uncommon specialized knowledge and significant investment that would keep people from effectively filling the void, especially if laws are what's interrupting the supply.

          You can find countless youtube videos on making home-made flashpaper. No one is going to "deliver" on something so simple.

          >b-but you can find videos of people making flash paper
          Yeah, if your only goal is to make a small amount and performance doesn't matter beyond it burning.

          >How do you deal with this feeling? Without smokeless powder and drawn brass cases with solid heads and webs, you're effectively stuck with ammunition technology that was obsoleted in the 1880s.
          Dude, if all technology goes away, I have WAY bigger problems than learning how a muzzleloader works.

          See:

          [...]
          [...]
          It's not just the apocalypse though. War, laws, natural disasters, attacks by schizos who just want to start shit, and more could all significantly impact or completely sever the consumer supply of modern ammunition. It's not something like gasoline or other consumable goods that countries' economies would collapse without a constant supply of to the consumer market.

          , and brass cases existed before modern drawn brass cases with solid heads designed to handle smokeless pressures (number 5 in pic related).

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Yeah, if your only goal is to make a small amount
            So you're now moving goalposts to asking for something home-made to be in industrial amounts?
            >and performance doesn't matter beyond it burning.
            Yes, that's how nitrocellulose works. If it burns ashless it's good to go. A simple test of quality that is easily passed.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >A simple test
              A real test would be having the confidence to load it into a cartridge without blowing up your gun, considering doing more than just burning it in open air is a massive part of the equation.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                lmao, here's your goalpost bro
                https://lmgtfy.app/?q=reloading+guncotton

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >b-but it's out there somewhere

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    we make enough ammo to shoot everyone on earth, every year, just in america. if the apocalypse happens and the population has been decimated, it will take a long motherfucking time for all of it to be shot. ammo is out of stock now because people are buying all of it, sometimes by the pallet, planning to trade it for shit. in SHTF it will get expensive but it will not just stop existing. and this isn't even factoring people making dirty ammo with black powder and matchhead primers. sorry meleefags you're never making a comeback.
    also for me it's winter cabin

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Man I'm so sleepy can I get the cabin gf starter kit pls?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >planning to trade it for shit. in SHTF
      I'm not trading anything that may come flying back in my direction at >1,000 FPS

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >you're effectively stuck with ammunition technology that was obsoleted in the 1880s
    Finally everybody gets to return to SOUL

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If every single human on the planet other than me were to die immediately, other than my immediate basic needs (gun is a basic need) i would secure:
    1. Land
    2. Ammunition

    If MOSTLY everyone died and i knew there were other people then i would secure
    1. Ammunition
    2. Land

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How do you deal with this feeling?
    I don’t have to because the feeling doesn’t exist for me. Any scenario that happens akin close to a collapse in industry you’re describing will generate a lot more pressing concerns than where my next box of bullets will come from. Having family with very specialized and costly treatments to maintain a normal existence really puts a damper on fantasying about what supply chain I’d need in some collapse.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      See:

      [...]
      [...]
      It's not just the apocalypse though. War, laws, natural disasters, attacks by schizos who just want to start shit, and more could all significantly impact or completely sever the consumer supply of modern ammunition. It's not something like gasoline or other consumable goods that countries' economies would collapse without a constant supply of to the consumer market.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Battle Priest

    >How do you deal with this feeling? Without smokeless powder and drawn brass cases with solid heads and webs, you're effectively stuck with ammunition technology that was obsoleted in the 1880s.
    Dude, if all technology goes away, I have WAY bigger problems than learning how a muzzleloader works.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    OP, go on a hiking trip for a month, bring everything you could want or need, bring your car too if you want so you can circle back and grab stuff you need when you run out. Do it at a national park even. Just no pit stops for stuff you didn't bring and treat everyone you see like they have a 50/50 chance of murdering you just because. Treat the whole thing like a larp.

    Brings a lot of realism and takes a lot of fun out of the "shtf" fantasy retards on the internet have. Most of us, myself included, realistically would die in under a year if the world ever "ended".

    My plan is to kill myself honestly, I love hot showers and soft beds too much. Yes I am a bitch.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Surprising to see a genuine and non-retarded post on this board.
      I’d also probably kms within a year, a perverse part of me would want to see how long I could last but I think it wouldn’t be worth it after a while.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Surprising to see a genuine and non-retarded post on this board.
      I’d also probably kms within a year, a perverse part of me would want to see how long I could last but I think it wouldn’t be worth it after a while.

      See:

      [...]
      [...]
      It's not just the apocalypse though. War, laws, natural disasters, attacks by schizos who just want to start shit, and more could all significantly impact or completely sever the consumer supply of modern ammunition. It's not something like gasoline or other consumable goods that countries' economies would collapse without a constant supply of to the consumer market.

      , there are events beyond just a full on world ending SHTF scenario that can fuck up ammo.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      At least you're honest about it, I've seen people break down after a month of no hot showers or a mattress.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      SHTF is a fantasy wish dream where all the larp gear you bought turns you into a COD character and you get the chance to kill or simply survive all the people you hate then the world magically reverts back to normal, minus all the people you hate being killed.

      And you celebrate.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >A month long hiking trip is enough to consider suicide.
      The absolute state of some people.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Are you intentionally being stupid? If so, good bait. If not I'm very sorry for your life.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You wrote a lot of words just to say that a coin flip of death every time you meet someone is low odds. No way! And that you imagines SHTF to be even worse than even the most bloodtorn story. I can only conclude your real emphasis is actually on the lack of creature comforts. Which is just sad. Go outside.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You are an idiot. Cool.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You could always embrace it, become a modern day cowboy, and enjoy shooting guns that you'll still be able to enjoy no matter how strict laws get or whatever else happens.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >How do you deal with this feeling?
    I don't care. I have a shitton of ammo and if things get so bad that you have to expend thousands of rounds, chances are you're going to die. Also touch grass retard

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I have a shitton of ammo and if things get so bad that you have to expend thousands of rounds, chances are you're going to die.
      So you don't actually have a shit ton of ammo.
      >t. someone who stocked up anticipating ammo disruptions around the 2020 election, massively underestimated how bad it might be because I didn't also plan for a global pandemic and a summer of riots, has burned through around 3k rounds for various calibers without ammo supplies returning to anything that might be considered normal by pre-2020 standards, and still isn't dead

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah this. There is no believable scenario in which my ammunition supply would be threatened with depletion from necessary shooting AND I would have a realistic chance of surviving.

      >I have a shitton of ammo and if things get so bad that you have to expend thousands of rounds, chances are you're going to die.
      So you don't actually have a shit ton of ammo.
      >t. someone who stocked up anticipating ammo disruptions around the 2020 election, massively underestimated how bad it might be because I didn't also plan for a global pandemic and a summer of riots, has burned through around 3k rounds for various calibers without ammo supplies returning to anything that might be considered normal by pre-2020 standards, and still isn't dead

      In some kind of survival scenario you wouldn't be shooting thousands of rounds for practice. You'd be shooting maybe a few dozen for hunting game, if that.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >In some kind of survival scenario
        That's not the only thing that can massively disrupt the ammo market you fucking retard.

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