Temporary cavity of M855

When I was a recruit at Parris Island, the instructional material they gave us on terminal ballistics stated that temporary cavities generated by bullet impacts do not typically cause permanent damage to tissue (though it is equivalent to a very hard punch or other means of blunt trauma). Is this true?
Sources like Hornady list the creation of temporary cavities as one of the primary means of wounding a target. Some people have told me that the temporary cavity alone is capable of destroying certain organs.

  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >anon just learns about hydrostatic shock
    In short: Not real

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That's not what hydrostatic shock is. Morons like using the term because it sounds cool, and since it's not real it keeps getting applied to more and more nonsense. You're right that it's not real, but that isn't even the same thing.

      We're talking rifles, yeah? Hydrostatic pressure absolutely can and does significantly influence wound severity of gunshots from rifles due to the velocities we are looking at. Do you think those tiny little fmj projectiles just punch neat little holes through the target?

      >Hydrostatic pressure
      Moron.

      https://i.imgur.com/QkhSWFi.jpg

      When I was a recruit at Parris Island, the instructional material they gave us on terminal ballistics stated that temporary cavities generated by bullet impacts do not typically cause permanent damage to tissue (though it is equivalent to a very hard punch or other means of blunt trauma). Is this true?
      Sources like Hornady list the creation of temporary cavities as one of the primary means of wounding a target. Some people have told me that the temporary cavity alone is capable of destroying certain organs.

      At high velocities the elasticity of flesh is exceeded and temporary cavities tear and become permanent.
      >(though it is equivalent to a very hard punch or other means of blunt trauma)
      If the above does not happen, then yes that is correct.
      >Sources like Hornady list the creation of temporary cavities as one of the primary means of wounding a target.
      Absolutely not, especially not with pistol cartridges.
      >Some people have told me that the temporary cavity alone is capable of destroying certain organs.
      Probably not happening. The force is similar to a boxer's punch. That's not going to cause your organs to shut down.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >similar to a boxer's punch
        >to the inside of your body
        Let's see you walk away from that kind of trauma.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >0:16
        reminds me of some peculiar products from bad dragon

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Probably not happening. The force is similar to a boxer's punch. That's not going to cause your organs to shut down.
        That absolutely would cause some organs to shut down. Namely your heart. But you dont need that one anyway.

        The hydrostatic shock meme is conflated by retards making extraordinary claims, and other retards over attributing those claims to damage caused by temporary cavities. Retards claim that hydrostatic shock can cause your brain to shut down because you were shot in a part of your body other than your head. This is obviously false. HOWEVER, brains are very soft targets. It is entirely possible for someone to get shot in the head with a high power rifle round, have the bullet pass through the edge of their skull(missing their brain entirely) and have the shock wave through the cerebrospinal fluid destroy a part of the brain the bullet never even touched. Same goes for other internal organs. Temporary cavities DO cause damage. Obviously not as much damage as a permanent hole, but your organs do not have unlimited elasticity. They can only be pushed and stretched to a certain limit before tearing or bruising, which can lead to failure. This is especially true for vital organs like the heart. Now, it will not happen every time someone is shot in the torso, but it can happen. The faster the bullet, the more likely it is to cause a temporary cavity that results in permanent damage. This is absolutely a real ballistic phenomenon and if you say otherwise you are too stupid to own a firearm.
        /thread

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        First slo-mo looks like an engorging dog cock

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          god damn i see it now

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            You're welcome

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >similar to a boxer's punch
        Anon, if my chest was opened up and Mike Tyson threw a jab directly into the opening, I would prefer to be shot instead.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    No it is not true, torn dead tissue is torn and dead and has to be cut out or it rots and gives you gangrene and you die and you have never been to Paris Island. You are in fact misquoting Three Kings

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It’s in the terminal ballistics section of the green knowledge book for table II; they get a couple PMIs to give you a class on ballistics and shit at the start of week 7. I don’t know how it was when you were there but that’s how they do it nowadays and that’s what they teach.

      >anon just learns about hydrostatic shock
      In short: Not real

      What about for “inelastic organs” like the liver? Wouldn’t they be unable to accommodate the shock and suffer severe damage?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No. Bullets make holes, no shockwave tears the organs apart, that's the fragments. It all started when someone looked at the brain of a dead guy with a hole in him and he saw burst vessels, many years later they realized that happens when you fall down on your head from standing height. A side effect of getting shot.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The importance of the temporary cavitation is a debated subject. Some have considered it the most important factor in wounding mechanisms (e.g. Sellier and Kneubuehl, 1994; Janzon, 1997). Others have hypothesised that it is not as important as the permanent cavity and have questioned attempts that have been made to treat the temporary cavity effects, rather than actual injuries, believing this resulted in theunnecessary removal of viable tissues (Lindsey, 1980; Fackler and Kneubuehl, 1990). This suggestion turned into advice from Cooper and Ryan (1990), who stated that not all tissue affected by the temporary cavitation process is necessarily damaged by it. Through cavitation can produce star-shaped damage radiating from the permanent track (Janzon et
          al., 1997). The effect of cavitation will ultimately depend on the properties of the tissue
          in which the cavitation occurred.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            No it is not true, torn dead tissue is torn and dead and has to be cut out or it rots and gives you gangrene and you die and you have never been to Paris Island. You are in fact misquoting Three Kings

            >torn dead tissue is torn and dead and has to be cut out or it rots and gives you gangrene and you die

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Flesh is elastic and the millisecond of bigger hole doesn't really make you shoot out blood that much faster in the scheme of things.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          by your logic there would be not difference beetwen a guy shot by a solid 50bmg and the occasional fucker impaling himelf on a pieces of 0.50 rebar

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >muh liquefied organs
            Yeah.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        No it is not true, torn dead tissue is torn and dead and has to be cut out or it rots and gives you gangrene and you die and you have never been to Paris Island. You are in fact misquoting Three Kings

        >You have never been to Paris Island.
        Start off and admit you are a liar and apologise and start again if you want actual information on this subject. If you can't do that just fuck off.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          What is your issue? I’m a POG who fixes PVS-14s and javelin CLUs for a living,l but I’m not a liar nonetheless. It’s not like I’m claiming to be a former DEVGRU member or something, anon.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Not that guy. But if you’re posting on PrepHoleèl, you should know by now to just ignore people who are obvious trolls.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            He says as he posts proof that he is a flaming homosexual in photographic form

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It might suffer long term damage but a liver punch won't stop you immediately and won't kill you. If you shot the liver itself perhaps you would drop pretty quickly but that's because you have a fist sized hole in your liver, not because of of a shockwave.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Liver punches can in fact stop you immediately (as in, TKO, sudden loss of consciousness) and that is why they are noteworthy in the world of boxing and MMA

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    certain organs means the liver because it isn't elastic. everything else yeah, temporary cavity causes disruption and bruising but that's about it.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    We're talking rifles, yeah? Hydrostatic pressure absolutely can and does significantly influence wound severity of gunshots from rifles due to the velocities we are looking at. Do you think those tiny little fmj projectiles just punch neat little holes through the target?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Temporary cavitation occurs with both handguns and rifles. Hydrostatic shock is a separate topic that no one has raised except you.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Can you quote the part where I was talking about hydrostatic shock?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          At this point I'm not going to bother no. You seem to be a cunt, a liar and a bullshit artist. What is the point of your thread? Spread medical disinformation? Sniff your own farts? Go on get the fuck out of here.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Hydrostatic 'pressure,' anon, is not a wacky sci-fi term. It is a principle of fluid dynamics. It is the reason why coke bottles explode when you shoot them. It is the reason why my cousin's spleen ruptured when he fell off of his quad when we were kids, and it is the reason why center mass hits with centerfire rifles become inoperable messes of gory pulp.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            you're full of shit my guy, a canceruous buffoon hellbent on taking a dump over any discussion on the topic that your cultist turd brain is obsessed with

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Reasons.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Please shoop that to say my dick or dildo.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Severe brain trauma and ruptured arteries were observed in a portion of culled buffalo that were shot center mass during an agricultural cull, do you suppose the bullet just teleported up there and then teleported away?

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    no the temporary cavity doesnt do anything, heres the wiki page for the martin fackler the former military doctor who invented the gel test and created the pic you posted.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Fackler

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >who invented the gel test
      wrong

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >shoot deer with 357 pistol
    >retain full weight of projectile
    >small hole
    >shoot deer with 338 federal
    >retain full weight of projectile
    >way bigger hole
    hmm big thinker

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    So far about one person seems to have given you a well researched answer.

    Hydrostatic shock =/= Temporary cavitation in terminal ballistics circles. Hydrostatic shock refers to the idea that the shockwave produced by the bullet impact travels far beyond the impact site and ruptures all sorts of shit, like you get shot in the lungs and it bursts blood vessels in your brain and intestines or something. This theory has more limited evidence behind it and hasn't been readily accepted by many SMEs, it's generally not accounted for. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist but the consensus has generally been that there's not enough proof to rely on it.

    Temporary cavitation is a well documented phenomenon where the bullet directly "pushes" aside tissue at a very high speed, it's like a rock making a splash in water except here that rock is a bullet and the water is flesh. You can do damage with a sufficiently large/quickly expanding temporary cavity. Effective bullet fragmentation also reduces the practical elasticity of tissue which allows a bullet with the same temporary cavity to do more damage. You see how the 5.56 bullets in the graphic are all making bigass holes? That's the fragmentation working in tandem with the temporary cavity.

    If you don't overcome the resistance threshold of the tissue then the TSC doesn't do meaningful damage. Like that 5.45 FMJ wound profile, it's not quite to the point where the temporary cavity would usually enhance wounding in lungs very much. Put the same bullet in the liver though and it'll do massive damage when it yaws.

    Most service caliber handgun bullets aren't at the point where they cause consistent temporary cavity damage to flexible tissues. Most intermediate rifle rounds (as you can tell from the chart) need expansion and/or fragmentation. With sufficiently large and fast bullets like M80 ball you can probably get some notable damage just from yaw TSC alone although it's not very efficient.

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