Latest image of Tempest now that Japan has joined the program. Video below.
>https://twitter.com/KosukeGoto2013/status/1635837885357375490?t=8UMKvkZsfLTGCus0trnLTA&s=19
Tempest
Latest image of Tempest now that Japan has joined the program. Video below.
>https://twitter.com/KosukeGoto2013/status/1635837885357375490?t=8UMKvkZsfLTGCus0trnLTA&s=19
As expected its broadly the same shape as all tempest concepts we've seen, yet another new trailing edge to the delta wing. No rudders on the tail. Aft fuselage slightly slimmer than before but clearly still a lot of internal space between engines.
It's really just a combo of the two designs
>F-X style cockpit and nose (thank God)
>F-X style tailplane
>F-X spine with air channels
>Tempest wing
>Tempest intake
>Tempest Exhaust
F-X had no design to contribute, no design work was ever done. It's just more evolution of tempest.
Lol based on what source? Your ass? Are you working for the Japanese MoD?
Based on the fact that the project fell apart with Lockheed in the negotiation phase. Meanwhile the UK has 2,500 people working on Tempest and has been working on it since 2015 with serious design starting back in 2018. F-X was only ever vague placeholder images. There have been workings on token peripheral components but none of it could be considered aircraft design work.
>the project fell apart with Lockheed in the negotiation phase
Lmao you mean they submitted a design and Japan said fuck off.
>On 27 March 2020, Japan rejected designs proposed by Lockheed Martin, Boeing and BAE Systems. The designs submitted by all three defense contractors include: a hybridized F-22/35 fighter, a design based on the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, and another based on the Eurofighter Typhoon respectively. According to an official from the Acquisition, Technology & Logistics Agency (ATLA) the designs did not meet their requirements and that no decision has been reached on the air-frame design.
Yes, that's as far as F-X got. It's a program to build a new fighter, not a specific aircraft. There is literally nothing other than the same shitty placeholder concept image and a few token technology projects. Japan is going into this with no existing design, which is fine, lets just not pretend that two aircraft designs are being merged here. Tempest will however evolve in time with Japanese (and Italian) input.
Again, they were going to scale up the X-2 airframe though modified a bit, it's not like they had NOTHING you dumb shill fuck.
They had nothing. F-X was not an aircraft design, it was a program to make a fighter and they hadn't even figured out how to go about it.
There isn't a single element of X-2 in this design.
You mean besides the RAM and experience with low RCS airframe manufacturing, oh yea and the engine development which directly lead to the XF9 that is likely what the GCAP engine will be based on, though with some Rolls-Royce magic dust sprinkled in there.
>XF9 that is likely what the GCAP engine will be based on
Nope, the engine will primarily be the existing RR design with their brand new engine core with embedded electric starters, this allows a big reduction in heat when generating electricity, a big bump in potential electricity generated and also slims down the engine to allow for variable cycle technologies - RR have also worked distortion tolerant fans into the engine face. It will essentially be an EJ2000 upgraded to the max with lots of new features. XF9 has never flown and it's design went nowhere because it wasn't reliable. Anyone can make a powerful engine that breaks itself. Japan can bring some cool materiel science stuff to the table and no doubt some nice electronics, but lets not pretend RR are not the world leading heavyweights here.
>with embedded electric starters, this allows a big reduction in heat when generating electricity, a big bump in potential electricity generated and also slims down the engine to allow for variable cycle technologies
Are we totally ignoring that IHI are the ones who developed this technology?
Its literally how the XF5 and XF9 are as slim as they are for their respective power and thrust output.
>Are we totally ignoring that IHI are the ones who developed this technology?
We ignore bullshit yes.
>Over the last five years Rolls-Royce has been pioneering world-first technology that will contribute to the UK’s next-generation Tempest programme.
>In an aim to be more electric, more intelligent and to harness more power, Rolls-Royce recognised that any future fighter aircraft will have unprecedented levels of electrical power demand and thermal load; all needing to be managed within the context of a stealthy aircraft.
>Before the launch of the Tempest programme, Rolls-Royce had already started to address the demands of the future. Back in 2014, the company took on the challenge of designing an electrical starter generator that was fully embedded in the core of a gas turbine engine, now known as the Embedded Electrical Starter Generator or E2SG demonstrator programme.
>Phase two of this programme has now been adopted as part of Rolls-Royce’s contribution to the Tempest programme.
>https://www.rolls-royce.com/media/press-releases/2020/09-01-2020-rr-develops-world-first-electrical-technology-for-next-generation-tempest-programme.aspx
If anyone has a Jane's subscription they've got an article on the IHI/RR partnership that went up a few hours ago.
You don't need a subscription to view it, at least in the UK. Eurojet was a partnership between RR, MTU and others, it doesn't mean the partners are equally able to contribute. EJ200 (XG-40) is pretty much entirely British designed.
Again, based on fucking what? Your Anglo bias?
They're spending a few hundred million dollars to humor the Japanese? Lmao.
>thing who's entire existence is bias
>claims others are just biased
More news at 11
>They're spending a few hundred million dollars to humor the Japanese? Lmao.
We were spending the money anyway, the UK had planned to fund 60% of the cost of Tempest, we needed two partners (or more to split the last 40%.
We are now splitting it 40/40 with Japan with Italy taking up 20%. Italy have since come out and said they will be a bigger partner which is fine for the UK as it means we have to spend even less. Giving the Italians extra workshare is fine with us as we have exactly the same needs (a typhoon replacement to compliment F-35) and their industries broadly complement ours rather than compete, plus the extra nice thing about Italy is that much of the relevant tech from Leonardo actually comes from offices based in the UK that were previously under British names. Japan brings money, eagerness and some nice technology and cheap manufacturing, it is very much a junior partner is designing modern combat aircraft but that's fine, they will learn a lot, contribute a good amount and we'll all benefit.
I think the final split is more likely to be 40/40/15/5 with sweden swooping in to throw in a bit just to reserve their place in line as a primary customer in the 2040s.
Modern jet fighter development is ridiculously expensive and the US is really the only country with a proper 5th/6th gen program with technology to match, but next is probably the UK followed by South Korea and France, problem is the UK does not have the economy to fully fund it themselves and why they took on Japan and Italy as partners, just like it takes France + Germany + Spain to have a comparable program, but these will be a few decade or so behind the US stuff at best, ROK benefits from having a closer security relationship with the US hence why KAI is almost a division of LM at this point
>ROK benefits from having a closer security relationship with the US
lmao post your passport you self hating hapa cunt
Retard, the FA50 is being pushed probably more by LM than KAI at this point and LM was instrumental in the KF21 development other than a few key technologies that no other countries other than the UK and France have that the Koreans somehow managed to figure out themselves
Yeah because LM makes money off of each sale and it's minimal effort from LM since KAI is taking over the leg work. LM just gets to enjoy the $$, no shit they're pushing it.
You pretending SK has some deep relationship with the US military and Japan doesn't is frankly hilarious.
>Korea isn't allowed to make their own F-15 or F-35
>Only jet they are allowed to make on their own is the FF-16
>10 crashes 2 fatalities
https://www.donga.com/en/article/all/20070723/254168/1
>The father of the deceased pilot, Captain Park In-cheol, was a major at the air force and died in a jet crash as well. Losing his father at age 5, Park In-cheol reportedly dreamed of defending the country's air force by following in his father's footsteps. The Air Force cannot be forgiven if their carelessness and complacency caused the tragic deaths of both a father and his son.
>Father crashes his jet and dies at age 5
>Son you must uphold family tradition
>Crashes jet and dies
https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korean-f35a-fighter-jets-grounded-172-times-18-months-2022-10
It's not even an F-16, it's an ~80% scale F-16 with slightly reduced performance in all areas.
They also get a budget radar because the US wont sell them the good shit.
the KF-21 is sorta a mix between the F-16 and F-22 (leaning more towards the F-16)
I'm talking the KF-16 which is just a Korean made F-16. It's the only jet that the US let Korea produce themselves and it has a terrible safety track record with 10 crashes and 2 fatalities.
https://twitter.com/THABOS47747375/status/1598711317749469184
Same fagging 1 min apart
>Japan also spends $150+ million for each F2 (watered down F16s) compared to US F16s going for less than $30 million for the real thing
The F-2 unit cost averages around $80 for what was essentially a block 60 F-16 in the early 2000s. If you want to use the retarded metric on development cost in the unit cost then the B-2 cost 2 billion dollars each.
>F-2
>3 accidents 0 fatalities
>KAI T-50
>5 accidents 5 fatalities
F2 sales: 0 units
FA50/T50 sales: 1000+ units and counting
Lmfao
Nice try but production stopped in 2011 before they could legally export them even if they had a customer for it.
All F16s are sold in the used plane market, not a single country wants to touch the f2 still
...again it's not being produced so I'm not really sure what your point is
Mitsusbishi no longer makes the majority of the components, or has the productions lines set up to make them, it would takes years to restart production, so of course there are no customers.
Who would want to pay mitsu millions of dollars to restart production of an early 2000's F-16 when they can just order F-16Vs brand new from the US, or buy older F-16s and then order F-16V upgrade kits for them.
So no shit no one wants to buy the F-2 that isn't being offered for sale anyway.
How fucking stupid are you? I mean seriously.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Japan-to-enable-fighter-jet-and-missile-exports-to-12-nations
>Can't buy = doesn't want
Japan is only opening the option this year
Turkey even wanted to buy the Type 10 power pack after korea was too retarded to make one that lasted more than 30 min without using German designs, but was denied due to export laws.
https://www.reuters.com/article/japan-arms-export/japan-turkey-scrap-talks-on-tank-engine-supply-deal-idUSL1N0LX0JO20140228
Germany wanted Japan's help with making an autoloader, but was once again denied
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/the-development-work-2016-2020
>T-50
>1000+ sold
>Number built 200
Implessive thanks to quantum manufacturing worst korea has stuck a killing blow to western aviation industry
Wow the resemblance to the F-2 is striking.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt and you are just retarded and meant X-2 except the doc was posted November of last year.
https://web.archive.org/web/20221202123928if_/https://www.mod.go.jp/atla/data/info/ny_honbu/pdf/oshirase/oc04-177.pdf
>https://twitter.com/THABOS47747375/status/1598711317749469184
That's F2, not F-X.
Why would they be doing wind tunnel testing in 2022 for a "future combat air" design for the F-2...?
Its clearly F-X lmao.
Old models hitting the internet in 2022 doesn't mean they were designed at that point in time. Also, it's literally X-2, fucking look at it.
Based on historical fact that XG-40 was entirely operational before eurojet was conceived as a partnership.
moron, I've ben saying the whole time the F-X was just a scaled up slightly modified X-2.
So yes, it DOES resemble the X-2, no fuckng shit.
Very well, we'll leave it at that.
?t=37
https://twitter.com/THABOS47747375/status/1549455789349564416
Is that why BAE used that exact Japanese model at their booth at Farnborough in 2022? Weird to be using an X-2 model when talking about GCAP.
>it is very much a junior partner
>equal cost split
>junior partner
fuck off lol
>Is that why BAE used that exact Japanese model at their booth at Farnborough in 2022?
Yes, because Japan supplied the only cgi they have.
Can't wrap your head around the cost splits? look at what happened with Eurojet. The UK funded 85% of XG-40, then Eurojet was created with 4 partners with an equal share, that existing design was then broken up and each country made roughly equal amounts of the components. Exactly the same thing is happening here with the maturing design for E2SG. It's why Japan has bought into it.
How are you incapable of recognizing the X-2 airframe is a valid, domestically produced airframe from japan, that was being tested and modified for use in the F-X program?
I mean, really? You REALLY seem to want to pick this hill to die on as if you have some kind of insider information (you don't) and are somehow "right" about this despite no evidence to support you and all the evidence to the contrary you right off as if it's either irrelevant or somehow being derived from the X-2 makes it worthless.
You're a fucking joke and I'm enjoying laughing at you.
>right off
write off
>How are you incapable of recognizing the X-2 airframe is a valid, domestically produced airframe from japan, that was being tested and modified for use in the F-X program?
How are you incapable of seeing that X-2 has as much relevance to a 6th generation aircraft as a hawk trainer? There is literally nothing relevant other than the fact it flies. What new technologies did it introduce? What aerodynamic concepts did it prove? What new materiel's were made? It was literally just a training wheels project made so that japan can get practice. Which is absolutely fine, but lets stop pretending that Japan has some wealth of experience in aircraft design.
I could ask literally the same shit about tempest and you'd get the same answer, it's nothing but a glorified 5th gen airframe, just like the X-2.
Fucking bong inferiority complex is always a sight to see, even when you work on US projects you dumb gays have to pretend you're ACTUALLY the masterminds behind it. You gays even pretend the PWR3 is actually a UK design, fucking absurd, and you're gonna do it again with GCAP.
>I could ask literally the same shit about tempest and you'd get the same answer, it's nothing but a glorified 5th gen airframe, just like the X-2.
Feel free to point out the 5th gen airframe with a rearward facing radar and swapable payload modules. Tempest has hundreds of contracts out with industry developing new technologies, we've already talked about the world first electrical power generation technology that RR have made. There's also world leading radar and ESM tech that's been proven.
It's clear the actual problem here is your lack of knowledge and some emotional baggage about Brits. Tempest is a British project that japan and Italy have joined. Suck it.
>It's clear the actual problem here is your lack of knowledge and some emotional baggage about Brits. Tempest is a British project that japan and Italy have joined. Suck it.
see
Also I bet RR ends up using IHI's IPM and thrust vectoring nozzle if nothing else. But probably more.
Japan is playing Indonesia to UK and South Korea respectively
Just like SK did 100% of the work and the Indonesians only subsidized capital which never actual came through until the project was complete, the UK will do 100% of the actual work with Japan and Italy providing funds, for what its worth Japan and Italy will almost certainly be more reliable funding partners than Indonesia so the UK has that going for them at least
> the UK will do 100% of the actual work
already proven to be wrong in this very thread
Except Japan already proposed a budget that surpasses anyone else's currently announced investment into GCAP. UK hasn't announced their investment out to the same timeframe Japan has, so hard to compare directly, but calling them Indonesia is just retarded and I have to imagine you're the moronshill hapa chud again.
Here as well moron shill
Japan has put around $2.7 billion dollars into F-X as of 2023 while tempest only has a budget of $2.3 billion until 2025.
Japan also spends $150+ million for each F2 (watered down F16s) compared to US F16s going for less than $30 million for the real thing
>F2
>watered down F16s
c'mon now anon, don't be disingenuous. it's quite literally an F-16.5 since it's a continuation of the Agile Falcon. You can denigrate it without lying.
Also the first fighter aircraft with AESA.
Fucking weebs are retarded like talking to a downie
The F2 has had so many recurring safety issues that many japanese pilots refuse to fly them even for training, the cockpit falling off is a problem that over the past 2+ decades they still have been unable to fix, this does not even include F2s blowing up on takeoff lmfao, at best the F2 is what would happen if you gave a bunch of sudaca day laborers an F16 and then an extra $100 million to modify it, yes they will spend money on it but invariably it will come out fucked up and worse than the original, there's a reason why japan exited the commercial aircraft business and begged the UK to join tempest
>many japanese pilots refuse to fly them even for training
Go ahead and find a single source for that you dumb hapa.
moronshill you can't even get population data one quick google search away right.
Why would any one trust you on complex technology when basic googeling is to hard for you.
chud deludes itself even when presented clear evidence of F2 garbage tier status and goes off on mindless rant with no substance, everything you post is pure garbage you fucking manlet gay lmfao
>presented clear evidence
>not a single fatal accident in over 20 years
Lol okay
Did you get so butthurt over being schooled about you stupid claims about the american japanse population that you just move treads and pretend it didn't happen?
That might work if you post in any other treads other than those relating to korea or Japan.
Retard I grew up in the US as a part jap, other than my immediate relatives did not meet a single jap that is a US citizen to this day outside of california or hawaii
>annecdotal evidence from a hapa basement dweller is superior to statistical evidence
lmao no
Honest question, are you retarded or are you part of some sort of japanese psyop to spark anti-korean sentiment on PrepHole by pretending to be a vatnik-tier shill?
Honest question are you a bbc cock sucker or do you prefer bbc in the ass raw?
Lmfao, gay
How often do you think about bbc? If someone cuts you off in traffic do you imagine him being rammed by a black dude?
Let's be real, $2.3 billion on British MIC > $2.7 billion on Japan "mic"
> let's be real, anything I say is true, anything you say is false
Got you
Indeed, unsurprisingly it costs more to make something when you have minimal existing industry and have little idea how to get your digital designs made effectively. There's a reason X-2 looks less advanced than stuff the UK was doing in the 1990's
Yeah, the X-2 actually flew xD
Replica will fly, it's the base for Tempest.
Can't until 2024 when they announce the full details about who is contributing what and all the meat of the deal.
Also wondering how involved Italy and Sweden(?) might be.
Cockpit aesthetics and seat manufacturing
Sweden can do the seatbelts.
> One of the key roles Leonardo is playing within the GCAP programme relates to the development of sixth generation tactical sensing. This domain is called ISANKE & ICS (Integrated Sensing and Non-Kinetic Effects & Integrated Communications System). Leonardo in the UK and Italy is developing ISANKE & ICS in partnership with Japan’s Mitsubishi Electric and Italy’s Elettronica. The new approach transitions from the traditional combat air model of individual airborne sensors to instead provide a fully integrated sensing, fusion and self-protection capability that draws on a spider’s web of sensing and effecting nodes across each platform.
https://www.leonardo.com/en/press-release-detail/-/detail/13.03.2023-leonardo-at-dsei-japan-a-partner-for-high-technology-and-innovative-multi-domain-defence-solutions
What is this? A jet for ants? It needs to be at least four times that size.
Bug jet. They're hoping to export it to the Turks if the TFX fails.
Nah, their main export customer is EU nations that aren't part of FCAS (Germany, France, Spain).
No one wants to sell the turks shit since they're back stabbing subhumans.
That was obviously a joke.
This will end up being a 4.5 gen fighter when all is said and done, the UK wanted desperately for the US to transfer stealth technology + sell the F22, but the US said no to both, that is why the UK decided to move forward with the Tempest program, the problem is only the US really knows how to develop true stealth technology where a fighter jet has the radar profile of a grain of sand, the Tempest will end up with having a watered down version of what the US had in the 1990s, probably radar signature the size of a soccer ball or something
>the UK wanted desperately for the US to transfer stealth technology + sell the F22
We were into stealth before F22 entered service, at no point has the UK been interested in F22 (an aircraft which is semi obsolete in 2023, let alone in 2040 when Typhoon is to retire).
>Transfer stealth tech
>Worked directly to help manufacture f35b
Anon please.
what’s funny is, UK, Italy and Japan are the only nations in the world to produce F-35s outside of the US
Lol, doing brownie labor for the US now counts are producing? They assemble parts and provide maintenance on the LM facilities and have no access to any of the real technology retard
Italy produces F-35A and B wings. Japan is the only country producing F135 engine components.
The UK produces various components in the F-35, though im not aware of any specific major components.
>and have no access to any of the real technology
The UK has full access to all of F35's technology. The UK is the only place outside of the US where black boxed components are maintained and the UK is the only country outside of the US that can generate the daily use codes required for F35 to work. There is no technology barrier between the US and UK at any level.
Wrong retard, the UK wanted the technology but the US would not provide the most critical parts and this is literally the source of why the UK went off on a tangent with the Tempest program, the UK was an F35 development partner but so was Turkey, technology is provided to the closest US allies when it is 1 or maybe 2 generations behind the latest the US has if that
>UK: Tier 1 partner
>Turkey: Tier 3 partner before jumping ship
>the UK wanted the technology but the US would not provide the most critical parts
Nope, there was an argument about F-35 source code but the US backed down and we got what we wanted.
>this is literally the source of why the UK went off on a tangent with the Tempest program
Also wrong, Tempest was about UK combat air from the start, it was always going to be British industry replacing Typhoon when it retires in 2040.
You're so out of the loop i'm genuinely embarrassed for you. Go listen to the official Tempest podcast (yes it exists, google it).
> Nope, there was an argument about F-35 source code but the US backed down and we got what we wanted.
Lol he thinks the US gave the UK the real stuff lmfao
Thinking any 6th gen will be flying not two decades after the US rolls out theirs is peak delusion. It's cute though that you're trying to be a real nation :3
looks cool
What is the tactical advantage of the shart chair?
better sharting when you are in a meeting as a leonardo manager
didnt gaymany and fagrance try to make a jet or something what happened with that?
FCAS, according to Airbus CEO last year they're at least a decade behind NGAD and GCAP.
NGAD and GCAP both expect to be flying in the 2030s with entry into service in the early to mid 2030s for NGAD and mid to late 2030s for GCAP.
FCAS is saying mid 2040s for service entry.
A day light and a dollar short i'd say. Can't imagine anyone would bother buying it except the 3 countries involved in the development (France, Germany, Spain).
>A day light
late