i think range is a big problem if someones rushing you by the time theyre in range unless youre using bear spray theyll still be able to easily get to you
Because frankly, being forced to use a firearm in self defense is a pretty shockingly rare thing, and pepper spray is enough force to cause a break-in-contact in most encounters. I really can't blame women, or even most people, for carrying some pepper spray and being like "eh, good enough." It's far, FAR more likely that you'll use pepper spray to dispatch an aggressive homeless guy, belligerent drunk, or touchy-feely creep than use a gun to blast a mugger in a DGU.
>'s far, FAR more likely that you'll use pepper spray to dispatch an aggressive homeless guy, belligerent drunk, or touchy-feely creep than use a gun to blast a mugger in a DGU.
Not unreasonable, also the aftermath to consider. If you shoot someone, even if it's a completely good shoot, it's going to be a pain. You're going to have to explain it, it's going to be public, even if most support you some will be mad etc. Cops are going to investigate, you'll probably want to pay a lawyer to at least be on hand. If you just took off that's going to be a big risk.
Whereas if somebody "felt threatened" by something sketchy but common like you say, hits them with pepper spray and runs away it'll probably never even be reported and police aren't going to give a single shit if it is. >noooo the girl whose butt I was grabbing for burned my eyes you must find her and prosecute for asssaullllttt!!
haha sure thing pal
nta but was thinking about why more people don't just carry both. I wonder if fuddlore/legal fear is part of it, that people think >"if I have both lethal and less lethal, if I use the lethal people will blame me more for not using the other one regardless of circumstances then if I only had a gun"
At least in my state that's not what the law says at all, legally justified homicide has absolutely zero to do with force type, it's a black&white situation justification or not. But not everyone will know the exact law.
nta but was thinking about why more people don't just carry both. I wonder if fuddlore/legal fear is part of it, that people think >"if I have both lethal and less lethal, if I use the lethal people will blame me more for not using the other one regardless of circumstances then if I only had a gun"
At least in my state that's not what the law says at all, legally justified homicide has absolutely zero to do with force type, it's a black&white situation justification or not. But not everyone will know the exact law.
I am that anon, and I do carry both.
Frankly, I think anon 2 is right. Fuddlore (really, hyperbolic legal fear) is a huge factor that affects gun owner's thinking about self defense and lawful use of force. Think about it: how many posts have you seen worded along the lines of, "Yeah, but if you ever shoot a black person in self defense, you're fucked anyways."
Meanwhile, in reality, the majority of defensive shootings are against blacks (as they commit the most violent crime) and the majority of defensive shootings never result in prosecution.
This is just one example of fuddlore/hyperbolic legal fear resulting in the acceptance of a falsehood, and it's kinda commonplace among gun owners. I get it: legal shit is perilous and expensive, but it eventually becomes a form of demoralization. I have a sneaking suHispanicion that it's a form of concern trolling.
Most of violence against women is commited by someone from their close surrounding so it's often not as simple as "just have a gun on your all the time and just shoot the guy lmao"
Whether you are a woman or not, have a gun or not, some non-lethal option is always good to have to diffuse situations that wouldn't warrant using a gun, which in the western world are often more common than those that do
Finally, quality pepper spray like Fox Labs or Sabre Red is WAY more reasonable than some bullshit self defense gadgets or "I'll just hold my keys like that and just stab the guy in the eye"
It's what I always recommend to people who don't own a gun/don't want to, or never will. Especially the people who have those handheld tasers, those things just hurt they don't stop someone since the prongs don't penetrate and many are much less powerful. I've tased myself with them in front of them to prove a point. Pepper spray is actually debilitating to 99% of people, and it will certainly ruin their sex drive if that's what was motivating them.
Pepper spray works well though as long as you don't draw it on someone with a gun already out like that boomer.
Have you guys never seen that livestream troller who peppers guys trying to fight him? He's had multiple incidents even.
I had a 20 year old keychain pepper spray can burst on me in a hot garage. It was super Hispanicy in there for a while! >Made expose skin tingle and your lungs felt like you just smoked a Newport! But no worse then Durkis Red-Hot Sauce
I was dumb enough to leave my FoxLabs in my hot car several times and, while it didn’t explode, the pressure in the can is all fucked and now it sprays like half-stream/half-spray if that makes sense. Tested it out once and gave myself a minor coughing fit and Hispanicy eyes, didn’t even spray myself or anything, the spray is just that bad. Might have to get another one but I can never find it in any local stores so I’ll have to order it in Grabagun again
You know remember THAT thread where Europeans were foaming at the mouth trying to rationalize pepper spray being a regulated item as dangerous as firearms
It's so bizarre that pepper spray is the logical middle-ground between guns and knives yet autists will defend and fetishize knives to the point of absurdity while foaming at the mouth to disparage pepper spray as worse than useless or even claim that you're a pussy if you carry it
Pepper spray is absolutely worthless. An attacker on adrenaline will not be deterred at all. A police chief in the 1960s sprayed himself to show how humane it is. It is not sufficient for self defense purposes. If someone gets deterred with pepper spray you didn't need the spray at all.
Tell that to the three separate meth heads I sprayed with pic rel who immediately went from fighting stance to walking away while holding their face and cursing. It's definitely no replacement for a gun, but it's not a mild annoyance either.
It definitely has a different manual of arms than a gun, when you spray someone you leave immediately. Although what's nice about that is that since it's completely silent you don't have to report anything to the police if you don't know the moron you sprayed since there are no shell casings or fingerprints to trace back to you.
>since there are no shell casings or fingerprints to trace back to you.
There is the UV dye from the spray, which is apparently pretty hard to get off and lasts long after the pepper spray has been "rinsed off".
Not that it can be traced back to you ofc, but you could, ostensibly, get some on your hands or something. It's not meant to incriminate you. It's really just meant to increase the odds of identifying a perp after he's been sprayed.
All that means is that the moron was pepper sprayed, they would still then have to prove that it was your specific pepper spray that did it. Much more difficult than matching shell casings to chamber marks/firing pin indentations or fingerprints.
They're also doing DNA swabs on shell casings now, so unless you loaded it with gloves on and never touched the casings once they can to link it to you that way
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
They can figure out the manufacturer's specific formula and tie it to you that way if you've still got the spray can around. Or they could run your hands/clothing under a UV light from the backspray and dribble out of the can.
It's a bit harder to prove than swabbing for gunshot residue, but if you've fucked up badly enough that the cops are having to do any of this you should probably be reevaluating your life choices.
t. Investigator
>logical middle-ground between guns and knives >close range lethal weapon >slightly more ranged nonlethal deterrent >ranged lethal weapon
Huh?
Anyway, if I need a nonlethal deterrent, I can put a laser sight on my pistol. Before lighting him up, I'll shine it directly into his pupils and blind him. If he keeps attacking after I've permanently fried his corneas, then I can shoot him easily since my gun's already trained on his face. No need to fiddle with a can of spray and then try to grab my gun after that fails, everything's already rolled into one package.
if you dont shoot him after pointing a gun at him that is "brandishing" and youll go to jail for it, and some garden gnome lawyer will sue the shit out of you for blinding a man who clearly wasnt a threat to you since you didnt need to shoot him. retard.
michigan does, or at least the lawyer (circa 8 years ago now so laws may have changed) mentioned in my CC course, something i latched onto because >if you dont shoot him after pointing a gun at him that is "brandishing" and youll go to jail for it, and some garden gnome lawyer will sue the shit out of you for blinding a man who clearly wasnt a threat to you since you didnt need to shoot him. retard.
was what i heard and assumed the baseline was as well.
but nah, MI totally allows "brandishing as a means to de-escalate"
Alright so consider the following: >Black attacks me, charges with a weapon in hand >pull out gun >Black sees gun and panics, drops his weapon, turns around and runs before shots can be fired
In your expert opinion of the law, am I meant to shoot him in the back because otherwise it was brandishing or is it illegal because the threat has ended and I've just executed a man in cold blood? What exactly are you supposed to do? Further, how would the court prove that it was brandishing if we assume it's not legal to open fire on a retreating/surrendered foe, as opposed to me accepting his surrender/retreat?
dome the Black amd leave, no one will investigate a single dead druggie
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
What if there are witnesses?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
then you shoot him before he could react, brandishing is not only dangerous legally but also physically since the moron will be galvanized by the encounter and will do thay shit again if he thinks he can get away with it scot free just by running away.
Pepper spray doesn't work against 10% of people and the % increases if the subjects are under the influence of drugs/alcohol.
During my conscription we had army grade pepper spray which is unavailable to civilians and a lot stronger than the average pepper spray. During an exercise they gave us the choice to use the real ones instead of the watered down version we usually use against each other and while it fucked me up, it didn't do jack against a couple of guys.
You gotta suck air through the piss bandana to filter out the pepper spray before it gets in your nose and lungs. This plus the goggles means you can use the spray with impunity with no worry about blowback.
No, it has to be pee. The ammonia neutralizes the pepper molecules. It works via the same biological mechanism as treating jellyfish stings by peeing on them.
Urine does not help jellyfish stings and can even make them worse.. myth needs to die.
I'm less sure about ammonia helping but I'm doubtful.
Baking soda and water has been shown to help as per the protests in HK. They also suggest sucking lemon wedges if it gets in your mouth/throat as it stimulates your saliva glands and helps clear out the irritants.
formic acid, pepper extract and bromoacetone or bromoacetophenone solution in ethanol in a hand sanitizer spray bottle, one less knife wielding bike thief with eye sight. the screams were delightful.
I carry POM pepper spray. I think it's smart to have various levels and options for self defense. Bright pocket flashlight, pepper spray, knife, gun. Sometimes a bright light and loud voice is enough, but it's good to have an option between that and having to kill a fucker.
I have an annoying neighbor who has been spraying something outside that is causing a mild burning sensation and it feels a little warm around my lips and nose. I cant locate where its coming form but its been going on for 3 days. >What can be dont to prove he doing this? Call cops? What are the charges if he is caught?
You mean, you can notice it on your own property? Also
- Have you tried, you know, talking to your neighbor, telling them the problem and asking them to change?
- Next step after that if it's truly bad would be looking at town ordinances.
- Probably threatening a civil lawsuit. Following through if necessary but a letter from a lawyer would probably be enough.
I highly that there is any criminal statute being violated anon. Not fucking everything means calling the police and there being "charges" jesus christ.
Commercial pepper sprays use peppers and capsicum extracts that are way hotter than the caroline reaper since they're for spraying.
nta but was thinking about why more people don't just carry both. I wonder if fuddlore/legal fear is part of it, that people think >"if I have both lethal and less lethal, if I use the lethal people will blame me more for not using the other one regardless of circumstances then if I only had a gun"
At least in my state that's not what the law says at all, legally justified homicide has absolutely zero to do with force type, it's a black&white situation justification or not. But not everyone will know the exact law.
https://i.imgur.com/ROcvJYz.jpg
[...]
I am that anon, and I do carry both.
Frankly, I think anon 2 is right. Fuddlore (really, hyperbolic legal fear) is a huge factor that affects gun owner's thinking about self defense and lawful use of force. Think about it: how many posts have you seen worded along the lines of, "Yeah, but if you ever shoot a black person in self defense, you're fucked anyways."
Meanwhile, in reality, the majority of defensive shootings are against blacks (as they commit the most violent crime) and the majority of defensive shootings never result in prosecution.
This is just one example of fuddlore/hyperbolic legal fear resulting in the acceptance of a falsehood, and it's kinda commonplace among gun owners. I get it: legal shit is perilous and expensive, but it eventually becomes a form of demoralization. I have a sneaking suHispanicion that it's a form of concern trolling.
Most people on PrepHole don't think the force continuum is real and that you should use a gun for everything.
>people have died from punches so that means I can shoot every one who tries to punch me >if I get pepper sprayed then that means they can take my gun and shoot me, so I can shoot every one with pepper spray
There are times when a shoot would be justified like Zim-zam, but anons think you can instantly jump to lethal force.
A lot of people base their world off of fuddlore, video games, or youtube reviews or something. Like "oh yeah anyone can just totally shrug off pepper spray", not that they've ever had even a 10% "see what it feels like a little very safely" sprayed at them before. I feel like that'd be one of those useful highschool experiences that the public would never go for, let every single student get a taste of diluted mace (enough to ensure 0% chance of permanent blindness obviously), tased, etc which will be bad enough then told the real thing is worse. It'd be a good experience and perspective.
Of course I'm a freak that also thinks one month of gun classes should be a mandatory part of public schooling as well so everyone has a very basic level of knowledge of them and some hands on experience, and they aren't this complete mystery learned about solely through Hollywood.
Apparently cops get tased at least once during training.
I can't carry a gun so i carry pepper spray. I had some of the same brand i carry sprayed on me and let me tell you, even in a controlled environment with milk, water and tissues nearby it was awful. I have no idea what kind of drugs you have to be on to shrug it off. And even then your sight will be compromised because your eyes will water up constantly.
>Most people on PrepHole don't think the force continuum is real and that you should use a gun for everything.
It's not quite that. There's shades of meaning that are lost with PrepHole users sometimes. Even with the two examples you gave, there are definite situations where shooting might be justified.
Is it acceptable to shoot someone for punching you? Well what do you mean? Did an angry homeless guy sock you one time before shambling away? Well, shooting him in the back would be retarded. Or by "someone punching you" are you referring to one of those moron suckerpunch-beatdown type attacks? Because fuck yeah you can shoot someone for that shit.
>if I get pepper sprayed then that means they can take my gun and shoot me, so I can shoot every one with pepper spray
Ngl tbh senpai, if I was minding my own business walking down the street and some random dude ran up to me and pepper sprayed me, I'd probably assume it was a robbery or something and my CCW would probably make an appearance.
>so I can shoot every one with pepper spray
I've never really seen anyone say that here. The demoralization shit I was talking about in my post is much more common.
It's more that anything that doesn't justify lethal force doesn't justify shit like pepper or batons or tasers or whatnot anyways. If it doesn't justify shooting them, then you should be talking them down. There may be a brief moment between words and bullets where using your fists may be more acceptable, but that's probably about it.
OP here. My intentions were to humorously mock the lack of masculinity in carrying weapons like pepper spray while sparking some conversation. Perhaps, even mock the mocking of lack of masculinity.
I need more malt liquor, but if I nace anyone from here to the gas station and back, I will be sure to give you the details.
P.S. does the technology really mimic the real experience?
Pepper spray is only a thing if you got a fire extinguisher sized "Riot Controller's Choice" one. And even then pepper spray should only be used in situations that don't require/allow drawing a firearm (yet) in the first place.
>Shady dude just knocking your door and talking shady shit but not actively threatening you: Blast him with pepper >Shady dude at your door ranting, banging, yelling, kicking and/or being visibly armed: Shoot until threat is gone.
>Road rager standing next to your window yelling at you like a moron: Blast him with pepper >Road rager standing next to your window, trying to open the door, destroying the window etc.: Give him a volley
Pepper spray is NOT an alternative to guns. It's a tool for lower levels of confrontations. Just like cops, for example, might use tasers instead of guns but draw guns as soon as tasers are not enough anymore, any civilian should employ pepper spray the same way.
>It he don't need no killin' use pepper, if he needs killin' use gun
>Shady dude just knocking your door and talking shady shit but not actively threatening you: Blast him with pepper >Road rager standing next to your window yelling at you like a moron: Blast him with pepper
These two are how you cop an assault charge.
If you don't need to kill it, then don't fucking attack it. For this one >Shady dude just knocking your door and talking shady shit but not actively threatening you
Call the police
For this one >Road rager standing next to your window yelling at you like a moron
Literally just drive away
This is why pepper spray is a meme. These situations do not warrant that amount of force and you will be charged for assault for spraying someone in them, and anything that justifies pepper spray as a civilian justifies a gun anyways.
>This is why pepper spray is a meme. These situations do not warrant that amount of force and you will be charged for assault for spraying someone in them, and anything that justifies pepper spray as a civilian justifies a gun anyways.
Dumbest PrepHole post. This subreddit's gone down hill.
See
Most of violence against women is commited by someone from their close surrounding so it's often not as simple as "just have a gun on your all the time and just shoot the guy lmao"
Whether you are a woman or not, have a gun or not, some non-lethal option is always good to have to diffuse situations that wouldn't warrant using a gun, which in the western world are often more common than those that do
Finally, quality pepper spray like Fox Labs or Sabre Red is WAY more reasonable than some bullshit self defense gadgets or "I'll just hold my keys like that and just stab the guy in the eye"
https://i.imgur.com/mmtHP6V.jpg
Tell that to the three separate meth heads I sprayed with pic rel who immediately went from fighting stance to walking away while holding their face and cursing. It's definitely no replacement for a gun, but it's not a mild annoyance either.
It definitely has a different manual of arms than a gun, when you spray someone you leave immediately. Although what's nice about that is that since it's completely silent you don't have to report anything to the police if you don't know the moron you sprayed since there are no shell casings or fingerprints to trace back to you.
>'s far, FAR more likely that you'll use pepper spray to dispatch an aggressive homeless guy, belligerent drunk, or touchy-feely creep than use a gun to blast a mugger in a DGU.
Not unreasonable, also the aftermath to consider. If you shoot someone, even if it's a completely good shoot, it's going to be a pain. You're going to have to explain it, it's going to be public, even if most support you some will be mad etc. Cops are going to investigate, you'll probably want to pay a lawyer to at least be on hand. If you just took off that's going to be a big risk.
Whereas if somebody "felt threatened" by something sketchy but common like you say, hits them with pepper spray and runs away it'll probably never even be reported and police aren't going to give a single shit if it is. >noooo the girl whose butt I was grabbing for burned my eyes you must find her and prosecute for asssaullllttt!!
haha sure thing pal
https://i.imgur.com/xKVqYAQ.png
Because frankly, being forced to use a firearm in self defense is a pretty shockingly rare thing, and pepper spray is enough force to cause a break-in-contact in most encounters. I really can't blame women, or even most people, for carrying some pepper spray and being like "eh, good enough." It's far, FAR more likely that you'll use pepper spray to dispatch an aggressive homeless guy, belligerent drunk, or touchy-feely creep than use a gun to blast a mugger in a DGU.
There's almost a consensus that you're a stupid moron who will shoot someone for no reason.
It's more that anything that doesn't justify lethal force doesn't justify shit like pepper or batons or tasers or whatnot anyways. If it doesn't justify shooting them, then you should be talking them down. There may be a brief moment between words and bullets where using your fists may be more acceptable, but that's probably about it.
and shut the fuck up, the fact that you're the one insisting that me not wanting to wear Batman's gadget belt makes me a moron tells me you're the retard here. Anything that doesn't require a gun, I can handle with my words or maybe my fists (big maybe because if you actually need to resort to that, you may need a gun, situation varies) because I'm a fit white male that can actually think logically about these situations.
If I'm not being threatened, then I don't need a gun. If I don't need a gun, I don't need any of that other dumb crap. What do you not understand? Alternatively, what do you think I'm not getting? Explain to me why I need your jalapeno eyedrop spray when I can just push a dude over or tell him to back off?
>It's more that anything that doesn't justify lethal force doesn't justify shit like pepper
Retarded. You're totally wrong. There are myriad situations in which the lesser force provided by pepper spray is legal, but the lethal force provided by a fire arm would be either downright illegal, or highly legally scrutinized (especially in the aftermath of the shooting).
You retards think it's lethal or nothing, which is the type of logic that gets douche bags sent to prison.
See [...] and shut the fuck up, the fact that you're the one insisting that me not wanting to wear Batman's gadget belt makes me a moron tells me you're the retard here. Anything that doesn't require a gun, I can handle with my words or maybe my fists (big maybe because if you actually need to resort to that, you may need a gun, situation varies) because I'm a fit white male that can actually think logically about these situations.
If I'm not being threatened, then I don't need a gun. If I don't need a gun, I don't need any of that other dumb crap. What do you not understand? Alternatively, what do you think I'm not getting? Explain to me why I need your jalapeno eyedrop spray when I can just push a dude over or tell him to back off?
>There are myriad situations in which the lesser force provided by pepper spray is legal, but the lethal force provided by a fire arm would be either downright illegal, or highly legally scrutinized
So you should have no trouble providing an example then? >You retards think it's lethal or nothing
Deescalation is nothing? Using your fist like a man is nothing? Why are you saying that I think you should shoot everything that appears potentially threatening, which is not at all what I've been saying?
Can you argue in a way that doesn't sound like the world's most desperate pepper spray salesman?
We had an entire thread about this, dude. Almost every """"""point""""" you made has been addressed earlier.
>So you should have no trouble providing an example then?
Most of violence against women is commited by someone from their close surrounding so it's often not as simple as "just have a gun on your all the time and just shoot the guy lmao"
Whether you are a woman or not, have a gun or not, some non-lethal option is always good to have to diffuse situations that wouldn't warrant using a gun, which in the western world are often more common than those that do
Finally, quality pepper spray like Fox Labs or Sabre Red is WAY more reasonable than some bullshit self defense gadgets or "I'll just hold my keys like that and just stab the guy in the eye"
https://i.imgur.com/xKVqYAQ.png
Because frankly, being forced to use a firearm in self defense is a pretty shockingly rare thing, and pepper spray is enough force to cause a break-in-contact in most encounters. I really can't blame women, or even most people, for carrying some pepper spray and being like "eh, good enough." It's far, FAR more likely that you'll use pepper spray to dispatch an aggressive homeless guy, belligerent drunk, or touchy-feely creep than use a gun to blast a mugger in a DGU.
Remember when I linked all of those relevant posts that BTFO every retarded claim you made?
https://i.imgur.com/jg8UxyU.png
>This is why pepper spray is a meme. These situations do not warrant that amount of force and you will be charged for assault for spraying someone in them, and anything that justifies pepper spray as a civilian justifies a gun anyways.
Dumbest PrepHole post. This subreddit's gone down hill.
See
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
There's almost a consensus that you're a stupid moron who will shoot someone for no reason.
I didn't do that for no reason retarded moron. There's an entire thread of people who think you're a retard. Peace, moron.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Most of violence against women is commited by someone from their close surrounding
Not a woman and women won't do shit to defend themselves, they need a male guardian for a reason. >some non-lethal option is always good to have to diffuse situations that wouldn't warrant using a gun
Such as? >an aggressive homeless guy
Is he coming at me with a weapon? No? Then I don't need to use a weapon on him. If he tries to hit me, knock his homeless ass out. At the most, throw some loose change at his face, he'll be too busy picking up every penny off the ground to continue >belligerent drunk
Again, is he coming at me with a weapon? No? Then I don't need to use a weapon on him. I've dealt with drunks without needing to shoot them so far, you forget they're literally intoxicated. They're uncoordinated, push the gay over or knock him out cold if he's getting physical. >touchy-feely creep
I am a man as previously stated, this is a non-issue. But for the sake of thoroughness: is he coming at me with a weapon? No? Then I don't need to use a weapon on him. As long as you don't eat or drink anything he gives you like a retard, you should be able to handle yourself as an adult man. These types are weaklings. >Remember when I linked all of those relevant posts that BTFO every retarded claim you made?
Nope, apparently not given that I've debunked them in a single post. I do not need pepper spray.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>they need a male guardian for a reason
No they don't, they just need to be armed with multiple weapons and trained in their use. Your big manly incel ass will die just as well to my wife's .380 as anything else.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
They need one because it doesn't matter what you give them, they refuse to use it. They feel guilt for killing a violent attacker for some fucking reason, to the point they'd rather lay down and die to them than take any fucking action for themselves. >muh inkwells
Insecurity noted. You should probably give this hypothetical wife a .32 instead, .380 is too snappy for women. I've tested, they still complain about the recoil. Revolvers are also idiot-proof, can't limp-wrist one. Best of luck.
[...]
Brown, sand encrusted fingers typed these posts.
Nope, just a realist. While it would certainly be nice to live in a world where women can be as logical as men, we sadly aren't living in one. Not like women don't share my sentiment, they see you and me as tools or weapons rather than human beings. The same dumbass that chooses to marry a wife-beating moron and doesn't see anyone else as a man can't be expected to reliably be able to defend herself, that's just facts.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
[...]
If we're talking about women then obviously it doesn't matter. Fighting is for men, women don't partake in it. If you're concerned for a woman, what she really needs is the protection of her boyfriend/husband or male family member.
>So you should have no trouble providing an example then?
Like other anon said tons of examples were provided earlier in the thread. If some unarmed bum gets a bit pushy or grabby and a chick panics/legit worries, peppers him and runs away, that is never going to get the slightest further notice. Technically/legally there could be some argument around whether it'd be "assault" or not, but as a practical matter the authorities aren't going to spend a single iota of effort on that. Nobody permanently hurt, no one else at any risk, no other serious crime committed, guy probably had it coming, book closed.
If she shoots the guy it's going to be a big mess of subjectives and public judgement and inevitably politics. If it's not clear cut self defense decent chance it might go to court, and then even if she wins it'll still cost a lot and suck.
If you're in legit fear for your life and they're armed or keep after you obviously you shoot them. But particularly for people physically much weaker there's going to be gray area for a lot of them. Having something to fill that hole makes them more likely to defend themselves vs hesitating which is a good thing. If someone isn't deterred by pepper spray and keeps after you now it's ultra clear cut.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Using your fist like a man is nothing?
how exactly is my 14 year old niece supposed to "use her fist like a man" you absolutely insufferable fucking gay
If we're talking about women then obviously it doesn't matter. Fighting is for men, women don't partake in it. If you're concerned for a woman, what she really needs is the protection of her boyfriend/husband or male family member.
>Using your fist like a man is nothing?
how exactly is my 14 year old niece supposed to "use her fist like a man" you absolutely insufferable fucking gay
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Literally me
>t. OC'd
Why do women believe that they don't need a firearm to defend themselves because they carry pepper spray?
go to cabelas tomorrow, and buy some. then spray yourself in the eyes. let me know how it works out.
how well does this work in someone hopped up on meth?
I got squarted by a girl while I was super drunk and I can confirm it still fucked me up for like 15 minutes.
And after that have a nice day with a 9mm and compare the results
i think range is a big problem if someones rushing you by the time theyre in range unless youre using bear spray theyll still be able to easily get to you
I been sprayed. By the premium military OC spray. It wont stop me, just turn whatever I was planning into a murder
Because frankly, being forced to use a firearm in self defense is a pretty shockingly rare thing, and pepper spray is enough force to cause a break-in-contact in most encounters. I really can't blame women, or even most people, for carrying some pepper spray and being like "eh, good enough." It's far, FAR more likely that you'll use pepper spray to dispatch an aggressive homeless guy, belligerent drunk, or touchy-feely creep than use a gun to blast a mugger in a DGU.
>'s far, FAR more likely that you'll use pepper spray to dispatch an aggressive homeless guy, belligerent drunk, or touchy-feely creep than use a gun to blast a mugger in a DGU.
Not unreasonable, also the aftermath to consider. If you shoot someone, even if it's a completely good shoot, it's going to be a pain. You're going to have to explain it, it's going to be public, even if most support you some will be mad etc. Cops are going to investigate, you'll probably want to pay a lawyer to at least be on hand. If you just took off that's going to be a big risk.
Whereas if somebody "felt threatened" by something sketchy but common like you say, hits them with pepper spray and runs away it'll probably never even be reported and police aren't going to give a single shit if it is.
>noooo the girl whose butt I was grabbing for burned my eyes you must find her and prosecute for asssaullllttt!!
haha sure thing pal
Just carry both, retard. Mace for the methheads and a gun for the methheads high on meth
nta but was thinking about why more people don't just carry both. I wonder if fuddlore/legal fear is part of it, that people think
>"if I have both lethal and less lethal, if I use the lethal people will blame me more for not using the other one regardless of circumstances then if I only had a gun"
At least in my state that's not what the law says at all, legally justified homicide has absolutely zero to do with force type, it's a black&white situation justification or not. But not everyone will know the exact law.
I am that anon, and I do carry both.
Frankly, I think anon 2 is right. Fuddlore (really, hyperbolic legal fear) is a huge factor that affects gun owner's thinking about self defense and lawful use of force. Think about it: how many posts have you seen worded along the lines of, "Yeah, but if you ever shoot a black person in self defense, you're fucked anyways."
Meanwhile, in reality, the majority of defensive shootings are against blacks (as they commit the most violent crime) and the majority of defensive shootings never result in prosecution.
This is just one example of fuddlore/hyperbolic legal fear resulting in the acceptance of a falsehood, and it's kinda commonplace among gun owners. I get it: legal shit is perilous and expensive, but it eventually becomes a form of demoralization. I have a sneaking suHispanicion that it's a form of concern trolling.
Most of violence against women is commited by someone from their close surrounding so it's often not as simple as "just have a gun on your all the time and just shoot the guy lmao"
Whether you are a woman or not, have a gun or not, some non-lethal option is always good to have to diffuse situations that wouldn't warrant using a gun, which in the western world are often more common than those that do
Finally, quality pepper spray like Fox Labs or Sabre Red is WAY more reasonable than some bullshit self defense gadgets or "I'll just hold my keys like that and just stab the guy in the eye"
Most women hates the idea of harming another person.
You have to be over 18 to post here.
spotted the virgin
Foolishness, unfettered naivete
They love beating children
It can defuse rough situations and prevent a beating, but if it’s someone who’s going for the kill it won’t stop them.
It's what I always recommend to people who don't own a gun/don't want to, or never will. Especially the people who have those handheld tasers, those things just hurt they don't stop someone since the prongs don't penetrate and many are much less powerful. I've tased myself with them in front of them to prove a point. Pepper spray is actually debilitating to 99% of people, and it will certainly ruin their sex drive if that's what was motivating them.
this does not change my intentions, femoid
>squirts it on your dick
that just means your puss is gonna be on fire in a few seconds
*advertises*
Pepper spray works well though as long as you don't draw it on someone with a gun already out like that boomer.
Have you guys never seen that livestream troller who peppers guys trying to fight him? He's had multiple incidents even.
I had a 20 year old keychain pepper spray can burst on me in a hot garage. It was super Hispanicy in there for a while!
>Made expose skin tingle and your lungs felt like you just smoked a Newport! But no worse then Durkis Red-Hot Sauce
In highschool a girl sprayed some mace into the air during english class and everybody's eyes were swollen by the end of class.
I was dumb enough to leave my FoxLabs in my hot car several times and, while it didn’t explode, the pressure in the can is all fucked and now it sprays like half-stream/half-spray if that makes sense. Tested it out once and gave myself a minor coughing fit and Hispanicy eyes, didn’t even spray myself or anything, the spray is just that bad. Might have to get another one but I can never find it in any local stores so I’ll have to order it in Grabagun again
AAAAAAAHHHHHH
she squirts are bad cause you want an aerosol for them to breathe in
You know remember THAT thread where Europeans were foaming at the mouth trying to rationalize pepper spray being a regulated item as dangerous as firearms
>its a 'gun owners seethe about pepper spray' thread
It's so bizarre that pepper spray is the logical middle-ground between guns and knives yet autists will defend and fetishize knives to the point of absurdity while foaming at the mouth to disparage pepper spray as worse than useless or even claim that you're a pussy if you carry it
Pepper spray is absolutely worthless. An attacker on adrenaline will not be deterred at all. A police chief in the 1960s sprayed himself to show how humane it is. It is not sufficient for self defense purposes. If someone gets deterred with pepper spray you didn't need the spray at all.
Tell that to the three separate meth heads I sprayed with pic rel who immediately went from fighting stance to walking away while holding their face and cursing. It's definitely no replacement for a gun, but it's not a mild annoyance either.
It definitely has a different manual of arms than a gun, when you spray someone you leave immediately. Although what's nice about that is that since it's completely silent you don't have to report anything to the police if you don't know the moron you sprayed since there are no shell casings or fingerprints to trace back to you.
>since there are no shell casings or fingerprints to trace back to you.
There is the UV dye from the spray, which is apparently pretty hard to get off and lasts long after the pepper spray has been "rinsed off".
Not that it can be traced back to you ofc, but you could, ostensibly, get some on your hands or something. It's not meant to incriminate you. It's really just meant to increase the odds of identifying a perp after he's been sprayed.
All that means is that the moron was pepper sprayed, they would still then have to prove that it was your specific pepper spray that did it. Much more difficult than matching shell casings to chamber marks/firing pin indentations or fingerprints.
They're also doing DNA swabs on shell casings now, so unless you loaded it with gloves on and never touched the casings once they can to link it to you that way
They can figure out the manufacturer's specific formula and tie it to you that way if you've still got the spray can around. Or they could run your hands/clothing under a UV light from the backspray and dribble out of the can.
It's a bit harder to prove than swabbing for gunshot residue, but if you've fucked up badly enough that the cops are having to do any of this you should probably be reevaluating your life choices.
t. Investigator
>not carrying spray and a knife
If you don't carry a knife at all times you're either a prison guard or a massive gay, obviously
>not carrying a knife, mace, and a gun and then beating the dude to death with your bare fists anyway
I shygddt
>logical middle-ground between guns and knives
>close range lethal weapon
>slightly more ranged nonlethal deterrent
>ranged lethal weapon
Huh?
Anyway, if I need a nonlethal deterrent, I can put a laser sight on my pistol. Before lighting him up, I'll shine it directly into his pupils and blind him. If he keeps attacking after I've permanently fried his corneas, then I can shoot him easily since my gun's already trained on his face. No need to fiddle with a can of spray and then try to grab my gun after that fails, everything's already rolled into one package.
if you dont shoot him after pointing a gun at him that is "brandishing" and youll go to jail for it, and some garden gnome lawyer will sue the shit out of you for blinding a man who clearly wasnt a threat to you since you didnt need to shoot him. retard.
tons of states either explicitly allow brandishing for self defense or have precedent supporting it
Name them
VA, PA has no law for it, Ohio, Indiana, etc
michigan does, or at least the lawyer (circa 8 years ago now so laws may have changed) mentioned in my CC course, something i latched onto because
>if you dont shoot him after pointing a gun at him that is "brandishing" and youll go to jail for it, and some garden gnome lawyer will sue the shit out of you for blinding a man who clearly wasnt a threat to you since you didnt need to shoot him. retard.
was what i heard and assumed the baseline was as well.
but nah, MI totally allows "brandishing as a means to de-escalate"
Alright so consider the following:
>Black attacks me, charges with a weapon in hand
>pull out gun
>Black sees gun and panics, drops his weapon, turns around and runs before shots can be fired
In your expert opinion of the law, am I meant to shoot him in the back because otherwise it was brandishing or is it illegal because the threat has ended and I've just executed a man in cold blood? What exactly are you supposed to do? Further, how would the court prove that it was brandishing if we assume it's not legal to open fire on a retreating/surrendered foe, as opposed to me accepting his surrender/retreat?
blink in front of the groid with your saiyan nofap powers and pistol whip it to death
dome the Black amd leave, no one will investigate a single dead druggie
What if there are witnesses?
then you shoot him before he could react, brandishing is not only dangerous legally but also physically since the moron will be galvanized by the encounter and will do thay shit again if he thinks he can get away with it scot free just by running away.
You guys are so goofy
Unless your laser pointer is pic rel you ain't deterring shit with it
gun people are compelled to hate pepper spray because it is the most sensible and politically correct form of deterrance.
Pepper spray doesn't work against 10% of people and the % increases if the subjects are under the influence of drugs/alcohol.
During my conscription we had army grade pepper spray which is unavailable to civilians and a lot stronger than the average pepper spray. During an exercise they gave us the choice to use the real ones instead of the watered down version we usually use against each other and while it fucked me up, it didn't do jack against a couple of guys.
>WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSH>
how much DPS is that rated for?
It's just urine.
>dive goggles
>piss-soaked bandana
>bear spray
>baseball bat
Become unstoppable. Who needs guns?
Why does the bandana need to be piss soaked
You gotta suck air through the piss bandana to filter out the pepper spray before it gets in your nose and lungs. This plus the goggles means you can use the spray with impunity with no worry about blowback.
Uhhh
Can I use something else?
No, it has to be pee. The ammonia neutralizes the pepper molecules. It works via the same biological mechanism as treating jellyfish stings by peeing on them.
Urine does not help jellyfish stings and can even make them worse.. myth needs to die.
I'm less sure about ammonia helping but I'm doubtful.
Baking soda and water has been shown to help as per the protests in HK. They also suggest sucking lemon wedges if it gets in your mouth/throat as it stimulates your saliva glands and helps clear out the irritants.
formic acid, pepper extract and bromoacetone or bromoacetophenone solution in ethanol in a hand sanitizer spray bottle, one less knife wielding bike thief with eye sight. the screams were delightful.
I carry POM pepper spray. I think it's smart to have various levels and options for self defense. Bright pocket flashlight, pepper spray, knife, gun. Sometimes a bright light and loud voice is enough, but it's good to have an option between that and having to kill a fucker.
I have an annoying neighbor who has been spraying something outside that is causing a mild burning sensation and it feels a little warm around my lips and nose. I cant locate where its coming form but its been going on for 3 days.
>What can be dont to prove he doing this? Call cops? What are the charges if he is caught?
You mean, you can notice it on your own property? Also
- Have you tried, you know, talking to your neighbor, telling them the problem and asking them to change?
- Next step after that if it's truly bad would be looking at town ordinances.
- Probably threatening a civil lawsuit. Following through if necessary but a letter from a lawyer would probably be enough.
I highly that there is any criminal statute being violated anon. Not fucking everything means calling the police and there being "charges" jesus christ.
Couldnt you extract caroline reaper peppers and use them as a base for pepper sprays?
You can also buy them in most retail stores for like five bucks, anon
Commercial pepper sprays use peppers and capsicum extracts that are way hotter than the caroline reaper since they're for spraying.
Most people on PrepHole don't think the force continuum is real and that you should use a gun for everything.
>people have died from punches so that means I can shoot every one who tries to punch me
>if I get pepper sprayed then that means they can take my gun and shoot me, so I can shoot every one with pepper spray
There are times when a shoot would be justified like Zim-zam, but anons think you can instantly jump to lethal force.
A lot of people base their world off of fuddlore, video games, or youtube reviews or something. Like "oh yeah anyone can just totally shrug off pepper spray", not that they've ever had even a 10% "see what it feels like a little very safely" sprayed at them before. I feel like that'd be one of those useful highschool experiences that the public would never go for, let every single student get a taste of diluted mace (enough to ensure 0% chance of permanent blindness obviously), tased, etc which will be bad enough then told the real thing is worse. It'd be a good experience and perspective.
Of course I'm a freak that also thinks one month of gun classes should be a mandatory part of public schooling as well so everyone has a very basic level of knowledge of them and some hands on experience, and they aren't this complete mystery learned about solely through Hollywood.
Apparently cops get tased at least once during training.
I can't carry a gun so i carry pepper spray. I had some of the same brand i carry sprayed on me and let me tell you, even in a controlled environment with milk, water and tissues nearby it was awful. I have no idea what kind of drugs you have to be on to shrug it off. And even then your sight will be compromised because your eyes will water up constantly.
>Most people on PrepHole don't think the force continuum is real and that you should use a gun for everything.
It's not quite that. There's shades of meaning that are lost with PrepHole users sometimes. Even with the two examples you gave, there are definite situations where shooting might be justified.
Is it acceptable to shoot someone for punching you? Well what do you mean? Did an angry homeless guy sock you one time before shambling away? Well, shooting him in the back would be retarded. Or by "someone punching you" are you referring to one of those moron suckerpunch-beatdown type attacks? Because fuck yeah you can shoot someone for that shit.
>if I get pepper sprayed then that means they can take my gun and shoot me, so I can shoot every one with pepper spray
Ngl tbh senpai, if I was minding my own business walking down the street and some random dude ran up to me and pepper sprayed me, I'd probably assume it was a robbery or something and my CCW would probably make an appearance.
>so I can shoot every one with pepper spray
I've never really seen anyone say that here. The demoralization shit I was talking about in my post is much more common.
It's more that anything that doesn't justify lethal force doesn't justify shit like pepper or batons or tasers or whatnot anyways. If it doesn't justify shooting them, then you should be talking them down. There may be a brief moment between words and bullets where using your fists may be more acceptable, but that's probably about it.
>Teehee! *squirt squirt*
That's what your mom said last night.
OP here. My intentions were to humorously mock the lack of masculinity in carrying weapons like pepper spray while sparking some conversation. Perhaps, even mock the mocking of lack of masculinity.
I need more malt liquor, but if I nace anyone from here to the gas station and back, I will be sure to give you the details.
P.S. does the technology really mimic the real experience?
Pepper spray is only a thing if you got a fire extinguisher sized "Riot Controller's Choice" one. And even then pepper spray should only be used in situations that don't require/allow drawing a firearm (yet) in the first place.
>Shady dude just knocking your door and talking shady shit but not actively threatening you: Blast him with pepper
>Shady dude at your door ranting, banging, yelling, kicking and/or being visibly armed: Shoot until threat is gone.
>Road rager standing next to your window yelling at you like a moron: Blast him with pepper
>Road rager standing next to your window, trying to open the door, destroying the window etc.: Give him a volley
Pepper spray is NOT an alternative to guns. It's a tool for lower levels of confrontations. Just like cops, for example, might use tasers instead of guns but draw guns as soon as tasers are not enough anymore, any civilian should employ pepper spray the same way.
>It he don't need no killin' use pepper, if he needs killin' use gun
>Shady dude just knocking your door and talking shady shit but not actively threatening you: Blast him with pepper
>Road rager standing next to your window yelling at you like a moron: Blast him with pepper
These two are how you cop an assault charge.
If you don't need to kill it, then don't fucking attack it. For this one
>Shady dude just knocking your door and talking shady shit but not actively threatening you
Call the police
For this one
>Road rager standing next to your window yelling at you like a moron
Literally just drive away
This is why pepper spray is a meme. These situations do not warrant that amount of force and you will be charged for assault for spraying someone in them, and anything that justifies pepper spray as a civilian justifies a gun anyways.
>This is why pepper spray is a meme. These situations do not warrant that amount of force and you will be charged for assault for spraying someone in them, and anything that justifies pepper spray as a civilian justifies a gun anyways.
Dumbest PrepHole post. This subreddit's gone down hill.
See
There's almost a consensus that you're a stupid moron who will shoot someone for no reason.
See
and shut the fuck up, the fact that you're the one insisting that me not wanting to wear Batman's gadget belt makes me a moron tells me you're the retard here. Anything that doesn't require a gun, I can handle with my words or maybe my fists (big maybe because if you actually need to resort to that, you may need a gun, situation varies) because I'm a fit white male that can actually think logically about these situations.
If I'm not being threatened, then I don't need a gun. If I don't need a gun, I don't need any of that other dumb crap. What do you not understand? Alternatively, what do you think I'm not getting? Explain to me why I need your jalapeno eyedrop spray when I can just push a dude over or tell him to back off?
>It's more that anything that doesn't justify lethal force doesn't justify shit like pepper
Retarded. You're totally wrong. There are myriad situations in which the lesser force provided by pepper spray is legal, but the lethal force provided by a fire arm would be either downright illegal, or highly legally scrutinized (especially in the aftermath of the shooting).
You retards think it's lethal or nothing, which is the type of logic that gets douche bags sent to prison.
bait or retarded.
>There are myriad situations in which the lesser force provided by pepper spray is legal, but the lethal force provided by a fire arm would be either downright illegal, or highly legally scrutinized
So you should have no trouble providing an example then?
>You retards think it's lethal or nothing
Deescalation is nothing? Using your fist like a man is nothing? Why are you saying that I think you should shoot everything that appears potentially threatening, which is not at all what I've been saying?
Can you argue in a way that doesn't sound like the world's most desperate pepper spray salesman?
We had an entire thread about this, dude. Almost every """"""point""""" you made has been addressed earlier.
>So you should have no trouble providing an example then?
Remember when I linked all of those relevant posts that BTFO every retarded claim you made?
I didn't do that for no reason retarded moron. There's an entire thread of people who think you're a retard. Peace, moron.
>Most of violence against women is commited by someone from their close surrounding
Not a woman and women won't do shit to defend themselves, they need a male guardian for a reason.
>some non-lethal option is always good to have to diffuse situations that wouldn't warrant using a gun
Such as?
>an aggressive homeless guy
Is he coming at me with a weapon? No? Then I don't need to use a weapon on him. If he tries to hit me, knock his homeless ass out. At the most, throw some loose change at his face, he'll be too busy picking up every penny off the ground to continue
>belligerent drunk
Again, is he coming at me with a weapon? No? Then I don't need to use a weapon on him. I've dealt with drunks without needing to shoot them so far, you forget they're literally intoxicated. They're uncoordinated, push the gay over or knock him out cold if he's getting physical.
>touchy-feely creep
I am a man as previously stated, this is a non-issue. But for the sake of thoroughness: is he coming at me with a weapon? No? Then I don't need to use a weapon on him. As long as you don't eat or drink anything he gives you like a retard, you should be able to handle yourself as an adult man. These types are weaklings.
>Remember when I linked all of those relevant posts that BTFO every retarded claim you made?
Nope, apparently not given that I've debunked them in a single post. I do not need pepper spray.
>they need a male guardian for a reason
No they don't, they just need to be armed with multiple weapons and trained in their use. Your big manly incel ass will die just as well to my wife's .380 as anything else.
They need one because it doesn't matter what you give them, they refuse to use it. They feel guilt for killing a violent attacker for some fucking reason, to the point they'd rather lay down and die to them than take any fucking action for themselves.
>muh inkwells
Insecurity noted. You should probably give this hypothetical wife a .32 instead, .380 is too snappy for women. I've tested, they still complain about the recoil. Revolvers are also idiot-proof, can't limp-wrist one. Best of luck.
Nope, just a realist. While it would certainly be nice to live in a world where women can be as logical as men, we sadly aren't living in one. Not like women don't share my sentiment, they see you and me as tools or weapons rather than human beings. The same dumbass that chooses to marry a wife-beating moron and doesn't see anyone else as a man can't be expected to reliably be able to defend herself, that's just facts.
Brown, sand encrusted fingers typed these posts.
>So you should have no trouble providing an example then?
Like other anon said tons of examples were provided earlier in the thread. If some unarmed bum gets a bit pushy or grabby and a chick panics/legit worries, peppers him and runs away, that is never going to get the slightest further notice. Technically/legally there could be some argument around whether it'd be "assault" or not, but as a practical matter the authorities aren't going to spend a single iota of effort on that. Nobody permanently hurt, no one else at any risk, no other serious crime committed, guy probably had it coming, book closed.
If she shoots the guy it's going to be a big mess of subjectives and public judgement and inevitably politics. If it's not clear cut self defense decent chance it might go to court, and then even if she wins it'll still cost a lot and suck.
If you're in legit fear for your life and they're armed or keep after you obviously you shoot them. But particularly for people physically much weaker there's going to be gray area for a lot of them. Having something to fill that hole makes them more likely to defend themselves vs hesitating which is a good thing. If someone isn't deterred by pepper spray and keeps after you now it's ultra clear cut.
If we're talking about women then obviously it doesn't matter. Fighting is for men, women don't partake in it. If you're concerned for a woman, what she really needs is the protection of her boyfriend/husband or male family member.
>Using your fist like a man is nothing?
how exactly is my 14 year old niece supposed to "use her fist like a man" you absolutely insufferable fucking gay
>gets shot 59 times