>Exclusive: Britain has delivered long-range ‘Storm Shadow’ cruise missiles to Ukraine ahead of expected counteroffensive, sources say
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/11/politics/uk-storm-shadow-cruise-missiles-ukraine/index.html
The United Kingdom has supplied Ukraine with multiple Storm Shadow cruise missiles, giving Ukrainian forces a new long-range strike capability in advance of a highly anticipated counteroffensive against Russian forces, multiple senior Western officials told CNN.
...
The Storm Shadow is a long-range cruise missile with stealth capabilities, jointly developed by the UK and France, which is typically launched from the air. With a firing range in excess of 250km, or 155 miles, it is just short of the 185-mile range capability of the US-made surface-to-surface Army Tactical Missile Systems, or ATACMS, that Ukraine has long asked for.
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A Western official told CNN that the UK has received assurances from the Ukrainian government that these missiles will be used only within Ukrainian sovereign territory and not inside Russia. UK officials have made frequent public statements identifying Crimea as Ukrainian sovereign territory, describing it as “illegally annexed.”
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The missile is “a real game changer from a range perspective,” a senior US military official told CNN and gives Kyiv a capability it has been requesting since the outset of the war.
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According to MBDA Missile Systems, the European company which manufactures the missile, the Storm Shadow is a “deep strike weapon” capable of “being operated day and night in all weathers,” that features an advanced navigation system to ensure accuracy.
“After launch, the weapon descends to terrain hugging altitude to avoid detection,” MBDA’s website states. “On approaching the target, its onboard infrared seeker matches the target image with the stored picture to ensure a precision strike and minimal collateral damage.”
Ammo depot status?
Do they still operate ammo depots worth using it on? They already had to disperse them due to HIMARS.
I expect fuel infrastructure and rail depot strikes
They probably do, just inland. Which means they have to get out of dodge again to prevent more disasters thus worsening their logistics even more
They probably just moved the piles out of himars range.
I'm looking forwards to the fireworks.
NO PANIC
Priggy over here having issues getting his nuggies when I'm called "3 For Free" at my local McDonalds eating establishment.
the purpose of this thread is to make a thread for discussion of this weapon without undue interference
since this is not a warriortard thread, it will not be capriciously taken down by that knobhead when the narrative goes against him
carry on
Nvm anon I just assumed the worst.
My post
Carry on.
Armatard sucks donkey dicks.
You gonna delete this thread too anon?
remember this?
the rumors might be true after all
this could be how Storm Shadow would be delivered
>350miles
Is it 250 or 350 miles, or is there more than one variant, or is that other anon right in that the terrain hugging drops it to 250.
it is a heady combination of
>manufacturer's claims
>best range performance in optimum conditions
>aircraft-launched boost
and
>the MoD knows and it's not telling (picrel)
so take all NATO "maximum ranges" with a hefty dose of salt
>so take all NATO "maximum ranges" with a hefty dose of salt
theyre probably longer
that was his point
No, my point is that we don't really know
There are actually Western weapons out there that fall short (literally) of their manufacturers' claims
the general pattern for MBDA is to understate ranges significantly
And I know of specific examples where they fucked up, so...
LMAO, vatmoron projecting russian behaviour upon others again.
250km is supposedly the range of the Export variant.
250 is for the export version aka those Ukies are getting.
Also I belive it's 250km not miles.
Short ranged for this type of missile but still better than anything Ukraine has now
>aka those Ukies are getting.
I doubt it, if they've been given by the UK they'd have come from RAF stocks, i.e the full fat version.
What actually goes into integrating stuff like this?
Is it just a hardpoint adaptor or is it more complex?
Modern weapons are called "smart weapons" not "guided weapons" because they're a lot more complex now
Paveway II was four decades ago and it's basically a bog-standard bomb-steers-itself-to-laser-designated-spot. That's a "guided weapon", and yes it can (and has) been dropped from anything with an adaptor. It's just pure ballistics after all.
A "smart weapon" like Storm Shadow makes Paveway look stupid; it reads its own map, has a photo of the target, can communicate with other platforms or other weapons, has multiple modes which can be switched around in-flight, can count how far down to go before exploding, has multiple redundancies, etc etc. Not all smart weapons have all these capabilities, but the point is that they are much more integrated into launch platform electronics than simply dropping a bomb and letting its seeker steer.
It's the difference between a telephone and a smartphone.
Storm shadow can’t communicate with anything once launched. It lacks a data link.
Why would you want a stealthy cruise missile to be emitting radio signals?
It’s encrypted and you’d want it in case it’s main target is destroyed and it can then attack secondary targets.
>It's encrypted
Lmao Jesus Christ PrepHole aren't sending their best
Encrypted doesn't mean a damn thing, it's still an emission.
There are LPI data links that emit directional focused packets along a small azimuth with the hope it won't get picked up by sensors in front of you. Beyond that very general statement I don't really know how they work but yeah it's different than encryption has more to do with beam steering and the wave guide
>What is LPIR
it's almost like you retards are intentionally stupid
It’s not a problem when the f35 does it but is for the JASSM ok
>thinks F-35 doesn't have various levels of emission control
>thinks the JASSM doesn’t have various levels of emission control
Are you retarded? or coping?
Are you? You’re saying short transmissions are a problem for JASSM but not f35. Explain yourself
They are a problem for both retard. If F-35 is operating behind enemy lines it will reduce it's emissions accordingly, many of it's data-links will be severed and it will lose capability in line with those reductions.
Notably it won't lose its ability to receive information, which is what that retard is implying.
>data receipt only needs one way transmission
enjoy your packet loss
>One way transmission
Thought it was encrypted as well. Encryption can't work without two way data streams
We have a cryptologist here everyone!
The closest thing he ever been to anything crypto was when he lost all his savings after investing in crypto.
Use a one time pad fuckibg retard, it's not like this thing is going to fly for hours
You don't even need a OTP, just have a symmetric key you use for that specific missile-station link and abandon it after you're done. What's the enemy going to do, magically break AES in this one specific instance?
As for the other retard saying "packet loss", you can transmit data over very long distances with no handshake/resend/etc, it just means you need to drop the size of the message, use coding that's more error resistant, and sign most of or the entire message so the other party can verify not just that they received a message from you, but that the message was actually correct. If in doubt resend it a few times.
Of course I wouldn't expect these people to know this since they're mentally disabled vatniks but fuck.
>You don't even need a OTP, just have a symmetric key you use for that specific missile-station link and abandon it after you're done. What's the enemy going to do, magically break AES in this one specific instance?
Pretty much what I wanted to say, thank you
Yeah I don't get why people make it out to be impossible. I mean your computer/phone probably has dozens of TLS sessions with different websites using different keys right now, servers might be doing thousands, but a bloody warship can't handle 20?
>Since 7th of April there have been 788 attacks on health facilities, hospitals and clinics medical centres.
Well shit
The exchange of keys could be done before you even launch it back at the hangar
JASSM emits right before hitting the target to see if it needs to switch? It’s not a constant emission
I fucking hate people here man. The concept of there being an undisclosed, encrypted and signed command to make the missile disregard EMCON and turn its data link back on is too much for these idiots.
You are actually mentally disabled and I hope you have an adequate carer.
>You are actually mentally disabled and I hope you have an adequate carer.
If i'm mentally disabled how does it feel knowing less about data handshakes than me?
Don't care anon, you don't know anything.
When you posted that data went both ways.
So did my dick when I fucked your mother. Learn literally anything past the basic functionality of TCP and people might listen to you.
Bro.
You getting upset shows that you've run out of arguments.
That works when you're having an argument with someone in person and you being an emotional little fuck will put people on your side. It doesn't work when you're objectively wrong.
He's getting unironically mad
it's so embarrassing when people just make shit up.
I know. Imagine believing the JASSMs data link is a flaw. People on here are so fucking retarded
>imagine thinking emissions matter on a stealth weapon
NAYRT but surely every little bit counts?
It’s a trade off. The ability to receive targeting information mid flight outweighs the ultra small risk of transmitting said information
Name a time when a cruise missile has been re-targeted in flight.
The mere existence of a two way datalink opens up potential for hacking.
I don’t have access to most likely classified information about real world missile strikes. The ability to do it is nice regardless of wether or not it’s been used in combat
It's literally a stated feature of TACTOM. You'd know this if you weren't a newfag.
>Key elements of the TACTOM design are an improved navigation and guidance computer, improved anti-jam Global Positioning System capability, improved responsiveness and flexibility through two-way satellite communications for in-flight re-targeting, a loiter capability, and the ability to send a single-frame Battle Damage Indication Image of over-flown areas prior to impact.
>TACTOM
FYI Tomahawk Block V is probably the world's most advanced cruise missile in service
That's probably LRASM or NSM/JSM
It is indeed, and TACTOM isn't a stealthy missile.
See pic.
A separate parts of the EM spectrum. One (IR) uses reflected light, the other uses emitted thermal radiation.
This guy is such an idiot it actually hurts to read his posts, and that's pretty fucking rare for me to experience.
No arguments detected
You think it's harder for an enemy to spoof a one off command than constant control?
I think it’s harder to jam a cruise missile that you can’t see than to point jammers at and overwhelm a slow moving high altitude drone to force it down yes.
We talking about jamming and not hacking now? You don't need to know where a GPS recipient is in order to produce a louder signal than a satellite to jam a whole region.
M code is good but it's only a signal boost, it's by no means foolproof. That's why INS and terminal sensors exist though
Whatever you want to call it. An enemy targeted by JASSMs would not realistically be able to use electronic warfare measures to keep the JASSM from hitting its target.
Russia has already degraded the capability of HIMARS through GPS jamming though.
>https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/05/politics/russia-jamming-himars-rockets-ukraine/index.html
I doubt it's that effective.
GMLRS is bog standard guided rocket artillery that can be tracked on radar the moment it is launched. How is that comparable to the JASSM
You don't need to know a systems location to jam GPS.
You absolutely do unless your plan is to shootdown the gps constealltion
Cruise missiles like JASSM and Storm Shadow are intended to be used for counterforce strikes in a nuclear war where they'd operate without GPS. It's a nice-to-have rather than a critical part of the system
HIMARS has a direction GPS antenna which would be theoretically more vulnerable to GPS jamming. They also fly at a much higher altitude and aren't provided the benefits of terrain masking.
GPS guided cruise missiles fly barely above ground level, have directional GPS antennae, and are much less susceptible to any of the ground based jammers the Russians have.
The system receiving the signal almost doesn't matter.
GPS is a known frequency and a known signal pattern and intensity. All you have to do is repeat that pattern, on that frequency with the same of greater intensity and you can interfere with all the systems in the region. I'm no GPS basher, it was great at the time but the world has moved on, it has it's limitations.
the PPS pattern is not known, otherwise it defeats the purpose of CDMA completely
Doesn't really matter anyway, western cruise missiles aren't reliant on only GPS coordinates. Either US or European cruise missiles shouldn't have an issue with targeting in a GPS denied area.
Iirc HIMARs also has basic bitch INS so we're just talkin reduced CEP, not missing, really.
>TACTOM isn't a stealthy missile
Doesn't matter, you asked if it was a capability and received proof it was.
>spoof a one off command
You don't have the slightest knowledge of anything to do with cryptography, if you did you'd know that using the word "spoofing" in that context without a lot of explanation is literally a buzzword. Please explain how you're going to spoof a military grade VHF/HF/satellite datalink. No vague references to "I'm sure it can be done", show any knowledge of how it might actually be done.
That’s a drone that’s being constantly controlled from outside signals. It’s not comparable to a mostly autonomous cruise missile
Anon that's a constantly controlled drone that sends back data feeds and allows for direct control for months at a time. An autonomous missile that gets a few commands sent to it through a secure single use hashkey is not the same risk.
>A separate parts of the EM spectrum. One (IR) uses reflected light, the other uses emitted thermal radiation
you are TRYING to say active IR you fucking retard god
it's the same region of the EM spectrum but a different application because you're actually illuminating the target
just saying "IR" and "thermal radiation" is useless because they mean the same fucking thing
IR seekers and Thermal seekers are not the same thing.
yes they are how many times do you need this explained to you
what you THINK "IR" means actually describes active IR. IR is simply the spectrum being measured. IR is infrared is thermal radiation. they are the same thing.
>active IR
Your use of this term makes me think the only knowledge you have is from rifle sights that have IR lamps on them lol
It's okay if you don't understand the differences between IR and thermal energy, the infrared spectrum is a big place.
is it common for you to hunt down graphs just to prove yourself wrong?
>Your use of this term makes me think the only knowledge blah blah
illuminating a target with IR is materially different than passive observation. trying to confuse the concept of IR imaging and seeking more broadly with active IR is retarded.
>is it common for you to hunt down graphs just to prove yourself wrong?
You looked at that graph and concluded that thermal radiation covers the whole IR spectrum... very telling.
Can a thermal camera see near-infrared and reflected light?
Can a NIR camera tell a warm rock from a cold rock in a pitch black, sealed room?
>You looked at that graph and concluded that thermal radiation covers the whole IR spectrum... very telling
try to use that graph to prove that IR imaging is not thermal imaging you fucking retard
and yes a thermal camera can see "reflected light" in the IR spectrum. you are so obsessed with being pedantic yet you still don't even know what you're talking about at a fundamental level
>try to use that graph to prove that IR imaging is not thermal imaging you fucking retard
I already did, i just assumed you had the mental capacity to figure it out yourself. He'res a more baby tier graph for you.
IR cameras and Thermal cameras are different things and have different purposes. There is literally no amount of your own stupidity that will change that.
This man is poor and lacks NODs lmao, point and laugh.
why do we have so many individual infrared spectrum rays compared to every other type of rays?
There is significantly more differences in how the waves react with metter within those wavelengths. Ultraviolet basically gets stopped, radio just goes through nearly everything.
Because Humans can only see a very small section of the light spectrum, there's lots of creatures on earth that can see far more - various birds and insects can see ultraviolet and the marks on certain plants that must look beautiful to them.
We only have three types of colour cone in our eyes (red, green blue), a mantis shrimp has 16. So they see the world in a very different way to us. There will be life on other planets, that due to the colour of their star, type of atmosphere and life on their planet will likely see an entirely different spectrum to us, it's possible we may not even share the same parts of the spectrum.
>We only have three types of colour cone in our eyes (red, green blue)
Funfact: one in a hundred woman has another cone for yellow and since we make yellow with mixing red and green pixels on electric screens, the yellow on those looks off for them.
I don't think hacking will be an issue tbh you just make sure each missile only responds to a specific code that's specific to the missile in question.
Effectively non hackable unless they get ahold of its design from spying.
SS is rumoured to be being upgraded with one eventually but it just doesn't provide that large of an advantage, since large multi missile strikes are often preplanned days ahead, they are unlikely to just get swapped mid flight outside of moving targets, which are not most targets.
The only advantage is a target priority list, but as I said previously with current foreign AA assets, I don't think a second round of missiles because one got shot down is an issue.
Thus this utility is limited in value in the real world.
It’s not a problem the JASSM already has anti jam hardware and starting in 2026 will be upgraded to m-code to increase jamming resistance even further
I mean it doesn't really matter, one shot missiles are virtually unhackable.
>M code
Lmao nice buzzword
M-code isn’t a buzzword it’s a technology that receives a large amount of funding to achieve a specific purpose
Nice dubs. It's literally a buzzword for hack resistant coding, what the fuck you smoking.
It’s a technology. You calling it a buzzword is irrelevant
It's still a buzzword for "were making it hackproof this time I promise".
Virtually nothing is hack proof over time.
It'll work fine on short term transmissions
like on a JASSM but on other lingering tech it's still a vulnerability like any other code.
Yes, but it knows where it is, because it knows where it isn't.
For now. From what I understand they've been fingering a data link since 2012, it's not exactly the highest tech.
>Many enhancements have been proposed for this weapon system, although Europe’s financial troubles make it uncertain whether any of these will ever enter service. Storm Shadow strike planners would like to have a data link from the missile to the launch aircraft, or even back to the Air Operations Center. With a two-way data link, it would become possible to re-target missiles in flight, a concern when there is a risk of civilians wandering into the field of view, or when the planned target may have already been neutralized by other weapons.
I also regret to inform you but all this war did is prove that you don't really need it, since Russian AA is dogshit, so you can hit targets whenever you want later even if you miss initially.
bongs want the datalink primarily for reducing collateral damage, but the weapon is quite lethal and accurate even without it
You don’t need it but it’s great to have
Well it's certainly an added feature.
I don't think the issue about emissions is an issue though, since it would only be transmitting when it's already in the process of destroying or is near the target.
Mid flight target redesignation emissions is sillier, there's not a lot of that going on yet and wars aren't that fast since to use one of these you need top tier information so you don't waste them. At least not yet.
Thanks makes sense
>a fucking nother one
Dude, this is legit mental illness. Get help anon, spend some time off the internet
the second post is what motivated me to get off my arse
discussion threads shouldn't be held hostage like that
Holy shit OP is pathetic.
Just like the storm shitshow.
Imagine what they could hit if they had JASSM-ERs with twice the range.
Cope, seethe, dilate.
Besides the local shill, can anyone tell me how they could theoretically up the range on this thing. I'm assuming they can just add a droppable fuel tank or something.
Ah that makes more sense. I imagine the bongs will give them the lower range ones with a few long range ones sprinkled in like they did with the brimstone stocks, and then as stocks lower they will get the longer range ones instead.
> can anyone tell me how they could theoretically up the range on this thing.
Redesign it with a smaller more efficient engine and add internal fuel. That’s how the JASSM-er improved range while keeping the same dimensions as JASSM
There has been a significant advances in small jet turbine efficiency lately since the original design, so this isn't actually too silly an idea.
>just add a droppable fuel tank or something.
You are actually as stupid as you seem.
>What do you mean you can't moron-rig a fuel tank to a missile that's basically a plane
They would literally do that if they needed something with increased range. It's difficult, but not that difficult.
Wouldn’t that absolutely obliterate the stealthy features? Why not do what JASSM did and redesign the engine and add fuel internally
Not really, and you'd be low altitude for the initial half, meaning you don't actually need it since the idea is to just allow launch outside of long range AA.
You can also design them stealthy anyway but that would be something they'd have to figure out.
You are genuinely retarded.
and imagine what they could do if we gave them nukes. its still a massive capability upgrade.
storm shadow is still more than capable of penetrating russian defences and fucking up whatever its fired at and is particularly suited to hitting hardened targets.
Payload of this thing compared to GMLRS?
Like 5 times as large. They use those old broach warheads
>old broach warheads
BROACH is an ingenious design, truly a step ahead of other approaches to bunker busting
you know it's good when even the yanks bought it
(the secret sauce is in HOW it penetrates)
(not shown in diagram)
>halt traffic for half a day
see
it's designed to destroy hardened aircraft shelters and bunkers, it can pierce several feet of concrete
Yea but that only puts a hole in the bridge
The US used it but moved on to different designs. BROACH is great but it’s not the be all end all warhead to defeat hardened structures
>The US used it but moved on to different designs
The US still uses JSOW, Raytheon own the licence, not Lockheed.
That’s nice if they wanted it they could have produced it under liscense. Lockheed tested the broach on ATACMS as well
ATACMS isn't a JSOW competitor. ATACMS went with a smaller warhead than BROACH, presumably to add range.
Okay but you’re claiming Lockheed doesn’t have access to the BROACH warhead so what I posted was speaking to the fact that they do have access. They just chose to go another direction it’s not personal
>Okay but you’re claiming Lockheed doesn’t have access to the BROACH warhead
For an air launched weapon that competes with Raytheons license they wont.
> For an air launched weapon that competes with Raytheons license they wont.
May I see this air launched weapon clause that you are referencing
Of course
It's really a matter of expense
Theoretically right now a three stage DU bunker buster the size of the GBU-28 would blow the socks off any other existing conventional weapon
>if the prototype isn't sitting in Area 51 already
IMHO, this is HM Government saying: "A little Novichok goes a long way."
And so does a little deterrence.
>HM Government
What does HM mean?
His Majesties Government.
450kg BROACH, Tandem Shaped/HE charge vs 91kg HE Unitary of the GMLRS, it's a massive improvement.
Pretty good then, but kind of doubt still that it could do anything to the Crimean bridge, other than maybe halt traffic for half a day
Well then the US will have to donate AGM-86C Block 1's then with 1362kg warheads. I mean they're LITERALLY being stored for decommission, why the fuck aren't they being handed over? UK has broken the taboo now.
Well, I'm no demolition expert or structural engineer, but if it can hit one of the suspension arches horizontally it seems it could really compromise the structure. Broach was built to penetrate shallow buried concrete bunkers, I can't find exact penetration figures though.
I really don't know though, I don't have a clue about that sort of thing.
I was thinking these sort of warheads would be better used on the support beams rather than the bridge itself.
Punching a hole into the beam and then detonating barely inside it should be effective, and should knock out two bridge sections too, if not 4.
Hit the right one and it might even take out an arch.
You want to hit the top center part of the arch if that is what you're aiming for.
The bottom half is basically additional, all the weight support is in the compressed wech.
>Wech
Arch
It's not that, it's just they'll need them for the coming Chinese chimpout.
US is probably happy for the UK to be using the stockpile that realistically was designated for counter Russian defence.
>penetration figures
at least 15 feet of rock, actually more like beyond twenty feet
it's a fair-sized hole, see the picture above
Yea but wouldn’t hitting the supports be more effective. Let the weight of the structure do the work for you
Can the apex of the arch be reliably hit? Be a shame to have one miss trying to go for a shot like that.
I know western weapons are typically very accurate, but still. You'd need to know the height of the arch for one, though that's not unfeasible at all. GPS jamming might be an issue as well.
It's terminal guidance is a thermal camera not GPS, if an 80's Javelin can do it on smaller targets I can't see why a larger missile can't.
>thermal camera
Infrared. Pointing thermal cameras at ambient temperature structures isn't an ideal use.
what the fuck do you think thermals see
>Can the apex of the arch be reliably hit
One of the first uses of Storm Shadow was against a deep ISIS tunnel network; the pilots dropped a Storm Shadow into the hole left by another Storm Shadow seconds before
Sound familiar?
This, but British.
you probably want to hit the area with the highest bending moment, the bridge deck probably in this case 1/4 from the arch contact point with deck.
t. Civil Engineer not specialized in structural engineering
Would you need to hit both arches or just 1 to get it unstable?
1 should be enough with a good hit
1 should be good, torsion can take care of the rest
t. that civil anon
Thanks for taking me on a trip back through statics. yeah, arch bridges are really cool otherwise
Mech E, agreed. I imagine both deck members are fracture critical: most arch bridges don't have member redundancy. The main issue is getting a hit which actually severs all the redundancy in a given member. Also keep in mind that shear loads are highest at low moment areas, so a hit there might cause remaining members to shear (shear modulus being the lower of the moduli and all).
Honestly arch bridges are kind of a nightmare when it comes to resisting damage.
>what is the M150 PAM
It can completely destroy pillars by punching a hole with the precursor so the main charge detonates inside and exploits concrete's low tensile strength. BROACH is the same but larger.
>will be used only within Ukrainian sovereign territory and not inside Russia
With this wording, using it in Kerch to target a naval base near Sochi should be legit. Because you're using a missile at the moment you're launching it, not at the moment it lands.
>After launch, the weapon descends to terrain hugging altitude to avoid detection
vatnik rockets have the same capabilities. I witnessed one of such missiles flying in parallel with our SUV when we were heading back from the front lines. It was in my field of view for only 2 seconds due to high speed, but I was really surprised at how low it was going. No more than 30-50m above the ground
Yes, Tomahawk made this capability famous in 1991 on CNN, and the Russians' latest missiles have copied it (Kalibr)
slava ukraini and Godspeed
Is it powerful enough to destroy the crimean bridge?
Of course
Basically it is a Tomahawk-class weapon, but stealthier and with a high-penetration warhead
So is the bridge already in range?
Yes, although it's probably the most AA saturated place in the theatre
Why aren't the Americans sending any cruise missiles?
Why would the US have to send cruise missiles?
The US equivalent is pretty shit
Tomahawks aren’t exactly shit. They aren’t stealthy but they do fine against Russian AD
Is this bait for a certain retard anon. If so respect.
That would up the stakes too much, Ukraine could strike at key targets inside Russian territory which Russia would take as sign to escalate the war. The Shadow Storm is less capable than a fully fledged cruise missile like the latest block of Tomahawk, so isn't as aggravating to the Russians.
>Shadow Storm is less capable than a fully fledged cruise missile
Implying Yuzhmash won't reverse-engineer the fuck out of it and make a slightly less accurate missile with three times the range
>Yuzhmash
What's that?
>Yuzhmash
One of Ukrainian missile companies, the company that made "Satan" ICBM and Zenit-series space rockets, engines for Vega, first stage for Antares and has several military missile projects-Blyskavka(supersonic), Grim, Killchen SAM system, etc. More than competent.
Doesn't matter. Ukraine likely won't be able to make it this terrain-hugging anyways, for one. Because Ukrainian made sensors are late 80s tier at best. But it won't be an issue for precision since Ukrainian laser inertial guidance systems are extremely good
>One of Ukrainian missile companies
Isn't satan russian missile?
Remember back when Ukraine was part of the USSR, there was a war, it was very Cold...
Look at any """russian""' (well, Soviet actually) weapon and 80% of the time it's Ukrainian. Igla and Satan are fully Ukrainian; S300, all aviation including strategic(Tu-95, 22 and 160), all submarines, most of missiles had Ukrainian engines and/or electronic systems. I'm not even mentioning tanks and whatnot
Why wouldn't ip be able to hug the terrain? you literally just program a course and it uses it's downward facing radar altimeter and forward looking IR sensor to fly low and fast.
NAYRT but the problem is sending what's AHEAD of your missile and avoiding it in time while flying at high subsonic speeds (~750kph)
Think about it
It means having a very long ranged terrain contour sensor pointed ahead, not just your basic bitch laser rangefinder
>It means having a very long ranged terrain contour sensor pointed ahead, not just your basic bitch laser rangefinder
You realise you can get a map of the whole worlds elevations, measured by satellite to fit on a USB stick?
There is also a forward looking IE sensor. The terrain hugging is a well known feature of storm shadow, not sure why you think Ukraine couldn't use it.
And without GPS your drift over hundreds of km means your elevation map becomes useless.
Good thing it has triple redundancy with an INS and also terrain matching.
>map on a USB
yes, you can get that; leaving aside the question of how accurate that map is (contour intervals) and other objects (buildings, trees), the question is how your missile detect an upcoming obstacle fast enough to avoid it
>The terrain hugging is a well known feature of storm shadow
The question was how can Ukraine make a cheap domestic knockoff, and the answer is they need a decently powerful, modern, fast-processing radar to do that
>es, you can get that; leaving aside the question of how accurate that map is (contour intervals) and other objects (buildings, trees), the question is how your missile detect an upcoming obstacle fast enough to avoid it
Accuracy depends on what you're using. If you have a DSM lidar map it is often on a 1-2m grid and maps elevations of things like buildings and trees, I'm not sure whether the Ukrainian government did lidar surveys before the war but I'd imagine the topo data is available from civilian sources. Lower lying areas tend to have lidar data because it's used for flood risk mapping. Beyond that it's just a matter of taking the nav data from the GPS or onboard inertial system and comparing it to the surface model to make sure it doesn't crash
>lidar surveys
>slav shitholes
anon...
Yeah, yeah, we already heard that, you don't like slavs. When you stops hitting on streets we'll maybe think about listening to you
Believe it or not the west sells these services for money
yeah, I'm saying Ukraine may not have had the money to pay for such services
Believe it or not it's not exactly rocket science nowadays. Google does it in literal shitholes in Africa
Eh, I'm not an engineer. Maybe it is possible. I just more or less know what Ukrainian MIC is capable of and based my statement on the level of Ukrainian optical guidance systems
>Ukrainian optical guidance systems
It's not a Ukranian missile?
It isn't, but the reverse-engineered one will. Check the earlier messages
Can they not procure such systems from France or something.
Even ignoring political ramifications of dealing with frogs it's too late to tinker with new systems for the missile to be completed and be relevant in this war and in the longer time scale it's better do develop shit yourself.
The UK is just completing a mid life extension of Storm Shadow so the missiles provided are likely to be a generation behind the ones the UK uses. It's replacement (FC/ASW) is also well underway and looks to be two separate missiles, one fast and shorter ranged, one slow, stealthy and long ranged one.
From what I can tell, bongs are capable of making missiles only if those missiles are aimed at ground targets. They make pretty good examples such as the brimstone.
Why the fuck does the entire british R&D infrastructure apparently collapse at the slightest HINT of surface to air functionality?
>Why the fuck does the entire british R&D infrastructure apparently collapse at the slightest HINT of surface to air functionality?
Starstreak works just fine, CAMM works SAMPSON and aster work
it puts a hole in the bridge and then the 450kg follow on charge flies into that hole and detonates 450kg of HE detonating inside a support is going to do noticeable damage
Because most of their MANPADs and Light SAM Systems are derived from the fucking Blowpipe.
how much of a game changer is storm shadow?
Very long range
Ammo and supply dumps will be moved even further back, Crimean and Lugandan bridges are at risk of destruction, there will effectively be nowhere within the original ukraine borders that will be safe from Ukrainian attack.
The missile is also useful for anti shipping, so supply routes that use boats will be at risk.
Years of espionage and murders on our soil with lack of regard for civilians, flying nuclear bombers near us and violating airspace. Buying off of politicians, paying off our radicals on both sides (this especially annoys most bongs, they like stability), scandals involving Russian money laundering, and the fact that were taught the Russians also invaded Poland.
Note how much the UK supported Polish and the Baltic States independence and you realise they've always been concerned about Russian
Seriously, what is the bongs' problem?
They have no problem with giving away their best weapons and make no fuss about it.
They support the Ukies far more than any other western European country while being the furthest away from the war.
I feel as if they have a concealed deep-seated hatred against Russia for some reason.
It's not like they committed several chemical weapon attacks on British soil or threatened nuclear annihilation of the entire isles. Poor little innocent Russia.
>I feel as if they have a concealed deep-seated hatred against Russia for some reason.
kinda yeah.
fuckers brought fucking polonium into the country and traipsed it round london to murder a dude, then a while later brought fucking nerve agents to do the same, failed to kill the target but did kill a bystander, they refuse to extradite the guilty. if they didnt have nukes we would have been actively bombing the fuckers since day one of the invasion
Russians conducted two high lvl assassinations in UK with a lot of collateral damage. Google Skripial and Litvinienko
>High level
Lmao no they just smeared radioactive material all over a box of noodles one time and the other smeared it on a door handle. They fucked it up twice the first time.
Literally Arab tier assassination.
>a lot of collateral damage
There are only 2 people, that weren't suppose to die. Which isn't much for collateral damage.
>Which isn't much for collateral damage.
its a lot when you arent meant to be killing anyone at all in that country and are operating completely illegally
Can you imagine the butthurt of Russia if any western nation had even tried that shit in Russia and fucked up so badly? We would have seen NOOOK threats of unknown high scale.
I think it would be the same level of threats as it was from the UK. Except these assassinations made russian gov a primary target for the UK and many other countries.
>I think it would be the same level of threats as it was from the UK.
HAHAHAHAHAHAA! You are funny.
Collateral damage doesn't mean only dead people
Do you want to take a guess how much decontamination cost in case of a persistent nerve agent and radioactive materials? Which they splattered all around the place
How many, 3? And in any case won't this piss of the Russians for years to come? They already hate the UK, if these do any serious damage, isn't retaliation a real risk?
>And in any case won't this piss of the Russians for years to come?
are you fucking serious lmao
>How many
As many as the Government will pay for; the RAF have at least a thousand missiles in storage
If Treasury votes them a billion pounds they'd happily blow the lot and watch Putin cry
>and restock with Storm Shadow Mark 2
>How many, 3?
unknown but probably enough to be actually useful if the ukrainians are careful with targeting, the real goal is to break down another taboo regarding arming the ukrainians in the same way giving them tanks did.
>And in any case won't this piss of the Russians for years to come?
and this is a problem why? the british are already sanctioning the russians and the only way relations are normalising anytime soon is if putin goes and they have real elections for his replacement.
>They already hate the UK, if these do any serious damage, isn't retaliation a real risk?
how? they cant strike the UK with conventional forces, they could with nukes but that ends poorly for the russians as at this point the UK probably has as many functioning nukes as russia, and economic retaliation isnt exactly a credible threat from a already sanctioned country, and they already act indirectly against the UK by arming groups against UK interest.
they dont have any real retaliation method that they arent already doing.
Considering the climate around the war in the UK, bringing the UK more directly into the war by striking it with conventionals is a sure fire way to piss off the entire UK, which realistically only passively thinks about the war on a day to day.
This isn't even considering article 5, even without it the UK would likely go all the fuck in in support this war. You'd see basically half the country wanting blood.
>bringing the UK more directly into the war by striking it with conventionals
Does russia have an ability to stike the UK with conventional weapons? I doubt it.
Yes. it would probably be missiles launched from bombers and jets though, which probably won't last too long above NATO airspace after the attack.
>above NATO airspace
Well, not above NATO airspace alone.
I also doubt russia will remain aircraft capable country at this point.
Coming from basically any direction within 1000km of the UK puts them at high risk of being caught by NATO aircraft on exfil.
Maybe with their "navy"
well yeah, the russian ability to hit the UK with conventional weapons is questionable at best, and its not an effective strategy because the UK will absolutely see that as a gloves off sign, and given what we have seen so far from the russiansthe UK could radically alter the course of the ukranian war in days if it started actively commiting assets on anything resembling a war footing,
>How many, 3?
A lot more I hope.
>And in any case won't this piss of the Russians for years to come?
I hope this does.
>They already hate the UK, if these do any serious damage, isn't retaliation a real risk?
What risk? The UK isn't a party in this conflict.
> And in any case won't this piss of the Russians for years to come?
it might make russians take gloves off for the 32143rd time, yeah
>isn't retaliation a real risk
I wish a zigger would
>won't this piss of the Russians for years to come?
Yes, and that’s a good thing.
Check the post to poster ratio
Mental illness
That’s called discussion. 100 anons posting one liners is an infinitely worse thread makeup
>post to poster ratio
Doesn't mean anything when Warriortard is known to spoof with half a dozen IPs a thread
How much of a limitation is this being air-launched? Russia still has considerable air defense right?
It far outranges any Russian air defenses
Great, thanks. Good luck to Ukrainian air force!
Not much, it can be launched from deep in Ukraine
Any attempts to compare the JASSM and stormshadow are Russian cope. The claims JASSM is much better, while true, is completely irrelevant to the topic and designed to cause infighting
Yeah this entire thread has strong "Valery realizes he has a stealthy 500 kg warhead cruise missile (not glide bomb) coming for an ammo depot near him" energy.
Technically Ukraine had the capability due to their own long range missiles and drone, hitting places like Crimea, we saw how much cope and evacuations happened from those few missiles alone kek.
Yeah but I feel like that was performative cope, even during the strikes on the airbases in Crimea they were fairly composed about it. This is deranged screeching and I love it.
>while true
Lmao
Go suck off morons for rent warriortard
This is exactly what the vatniks want you to do. In no world can the storm shadow be seen as better than JASSM these are just facts. The point is that Ukraine is getting storm shadow which far outrange anything the Ukrainians have
You're wrong bro get over it
What am I wrong about. Provide details
Fact: warriortard is NEET, poor, incel, retarded, and will eventually die alone in a gutter and nobody will even care enough to rejoice
Oh my. I thought you would reply with some stats or something
He's not me
Those are stats
The only ones to notice will be some random anons on PrepHole who thinks the board lately feels a little less shit.
Is the warhead on this thing powerful enough to take out the Kerch bridge?
You could bury the bridge under several meters of earth and concrete and storm shadow would still destroy it.
Oh god yes. We're really going to see 8th of October redux, aren't we?
The sheer amount of seething and screaming from vatmorons will sustain me for a lifetime if British weapons destroy that bridge.
I feel like they specifically waited until may 9 was over just so that the Ukrainians wouldn't be tempted to launch a cheeky strike on Moscow with it
The UK clearly doesn't give a fuck if this is fired into Russia (which is where the juiciest targets will be). Do they need the French to sign off on the transfer so added this stipulation?
No. Both the UK and the French aren't a huge fan of weapon treaties that stop each other using their weapons they bought. They both cooperate because they are reliant in either other. Selling them to other nations might be an issue but generally as long as it's UK supervises the frogs won't care, and the UK has large stocks anyway.
So why the stipulation? The UK has made it clear it sees no problem with Ukraine hitting military targets inside Russia, so what's different about this missile?
I have to assume there are logistics and coordination centres just inside the Russian border that are in range of this missile now. Russia for it's part removed any distinction with the annexations.
The whole point of Storm Shadows is strikes deep behind enemy lines. So, expect some russian soil to burn.
Hear me out, what's stopping Ukrs from destroying what Black Sea Fleet is in Crimea now and, via their one landing ship and several repurposed civvie boats, just landing past the other side of the Dnieper?
Submarines
Russia moved them further east a week or two ago out of fear of losing more ships.
Don't care. Ukraine is losing
it's losing these weapons as fast as it can get them. Strangely, it always loses them in the direction of Russia, at roughly mach 1
Man don't you just hate it when all your NLAWs get stolen because you're a corrupt piece of shit and NATO finds out they're being hidden in the carcasses of dead Russian tanks all along the FLOT?
The year is 3023, the racist aliens have drawn graffiti on my front door but I cant see what it says because of these shitty human eyes.
%3D
If you want to see what else was said this is the announcement of the Storm Shadow, obviously its taken the spot light but there are other good bits in the Q+As.
>All Challenger 2s are in Ukraine
>Storm Shadow would have been given straight away if there was an offensive on the horizon but that wasn't the case, now is different (counteroffensive soon boyo)
>StormShadow will be air launched
>More long range missiles are being procured for Ukraine by the UK
>StormShadow will be air launched
F-16?
Su-22 *~~
Su-24 allegedly
He said
>part of the reason we haven't seen the Storm Shadow sooner was it takes a long time to intergrate a 5th gen missile onto a 2nd or 3rd gen Soviet or Russian aircraft
So I'm guessing it's not an F16.
Here are the details
>Long range strike - closed on 4 May 2023, 23:00 BST
>EOIs were requested in the following sub-capability areas:
>Missiles or Rockets with a range 100-300km; land, sea or air launch. Payload 20-490kg.
>Desirable requirements:
>Low Probability of Intercept (LPI)
Includes Mission Planning Capability
Assured navigation (with hardened Global Navigation Satellite System capability) in the face of advanced countermeasures and EM spectrum denial
Air defence penetration methods to increase probability of successful strike
Technical Readiness Level of at least 8
Suppliers who submitted an EOI will be contacted from 5 June.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/international-fund-for-ukraine-ifu
Contracts are open for anyone so if you fancy building a cruise missile in your nans shed now is the time.
Based Ben
cringe
>noooooooo you can't have fun while donating weapons to waste Russia nooooo
Pipe down freak
You are a tourist. Go away redditor
Nah, reply again though I know your autism can't resist it...tourist.
He also said
>If any of our partners want to send F16s we will deliver them if you don't want too
Kek
>2nd or 3rd gen Soviet or Russian aircraft
Interesting Stipulation, not 4th gen like the MiG-29 or Su-27? Guess that confirms Su-24 is the launch platform, pretty sure that's 3rd gen.
>1:20:45
Skip to that on the link here
That's were he discusses the integration of the missile.
>More long range missiles are being procured
bongbros can't stop winning
Flight altitude 30-40 metres. Terrain hugging.
That is gonna be hard to shoot down
Expect Russian state media to chimp about GI Joe shortly
Russians are in for a world of hurt.
Overkill, to be honest. Providing ATACMS would be so much cheaper and more efficient, but people are scared.
Overall Brits are cool and ballsy.
The Bongs have broken every taboo first
>First to give ships to Ukraine (Frigate is being built still)
>First to give helicopters
>First to give western MBT
>First to give long range missiles
Now the USA can take the baton and go 'Well they did it first lol'. If UK gives jets first... well, that'd be ace.
Add to that:
>First to supply weapons post invasion
>First to announce post invasion training program - which is still the biggest.
Both of those things were happening beforehand, but Britain's near immediate escalation of existing support really set the tone.
Ukraine have been given a preliminary amount subject to proven effectiveness. 500 ready to go.
>500 ready to go.
source?
t. knower
Challenger 2 > Abrams
Brimstone > Hellfire
Shadow storm > Tomahawk
Star streak > stinger
L85A3 > M16
L115A3 > M24
Simple as.
Be gone, trying to stir infighting here is just sad, humiliating and reeks of desperation...rather like strapping logs to your transport trucks or putting metal bed frames on tank turrets.
>Challenger 2 > Abrams
probably goes to tha abrams at least until challenger gets the gun upgrade, its pretty close though, the gun difference would only matter vs western mbts and they are equal in protection, Abrams is faster in a straight line on roads but chally is marginally better cross country.
>Brimstone > Hellfire
no shit Brimstone originated as a upgrade program for Hellfire and ended up well beyond its original remit and spanning a line of follow on weapons, Hellfire is still a fucking good missile though and has some interesting variants
>Shadow storm > Tomahawk
totally different weapons for totally different purposes
>Star streak > stinger
in trained hands sure, but stinger is easier to give to militia and much cheaper.
>L85A3 > M16
L85a3 is heavier, but very reliable - A1 had the reliability issues- and very accurate, M16 is lighter
>L115A3 > M24
yeah sure, ones a dedicated from the ground up sniping weapon the other is a militarised hunting rifle
when are you going to buy our CV90s
Now I hope, jk we never will that would be a much too sensible option for the MoD.
Seriously though it pisses me off and alot of others we don't have the CV90, especially now BAe has something to do with it.
This war has proven that ground launch systems for cruise missiles and other missiles are absolutely crucial for future conflicts
Well of course, that's part of why they were heavily restricted by INF in the first place. Forcing decent range ones to be carried by aircraft or ships ties the maintenance/operation cost of cruise missiles to that of their launch platforms which has the effect of making them far more scarce, as what's the point of stocking thousands of cheap missiles if you don't have the money to fly the aircraft that deliver them?
only because NATO air forces are *still* not in play
No.
Air-to-ground is more important since an aircraft gives a missile initial velocity, which would take 80% of missile fuel to gein the same amount of velocity.
Utterly retarded opinion. Stealth aircraft will have issue lobbing these
this shit terrifies me. Modern war sounds so hellish.
>quick dig a trench
>artillery artillery artillery
>oh fuck get in the trench!
>bzzzzzzz
>oh fuck it's a drone swarm! out of the trench, out of the trench!
>whoooosh
>oh fuck here comes the kamakaz- BOOM
>not even supersonic
Tomahawk's are subsonic. JASSM's are subsonic. Speed doesn't matter. It's first strike, low visibility, low altitude, small target profile, etc. In the case of the JASSM (I don't know enough about the Storm Shadow) it utilizes RAM material including a stealthy shape. They're functionally ground/sea skimming F-117s with more advanced avionics and targeting.
BTW does anyone know if Link 16 is the universal data-link standard in NATO or if there other systems in use?
There are several Link standards, but most NATO countries use Link 16 on aircraft. Unfortunately not all Euros are willing to spend the money to have datalink capability with their allies. As always, the US has to fill the gap by having older datalinks on AEW&C aircraft to brudge the capability gap. Like, if you have F-35s in theater you still have to talk back to everyone else even though nobody has MADL, so integration is a huge important pain in the ass.
Ah yiss.
Kek
As long as they pay a license fee for it, or when they manufacture them are willing to sell us them back at a substantive discount, I'd be all for it.
Your missile shall be a splendid addition to our Blyskavka project
t.Pivdenne Design Bureau
Where ERA?
Inside, of course. It's better protected this way
Love these guys.
There's only a limited amount of these so they'll have to be used on high value stuff I assume. Airbases? Huge ammo depots outside of himars range?
Well this explains all the zigger meltdowns today
The missing question here is HOW MANY DOES THE UK HAVE?
Sending 12 of them is irrelevant.
Sending 212 is very useful.
Sending 1200 is war changing.
What happened to the brimstone missiles? They worked great but than they just disappeared. Out of stock?
>Sending 12 of them is irrelevant.
Not really, since these thing are designed to take out high value targets. Which makes every single one count.
Google helps you to avoid looking like a retard with its basic search function. Retard.
>What happened to the brimstone missiles? They worked great but than they just disappeared. Out of stock?
Nope, russians stopped the offensive and don't pile up tanks anymore.
>Sending 12 of them is irrelevant.
Kerch Bridge getting demolished is irrelevant?
>Kerch Bridge getting demolished is irrelevant?
Why would you want this fairly insignificant bridge to be destroyed if there are a plenty of higher valuable targets?
Russians are surprisingly clam today.