Space laser operations

https://www.pcmag.com/news/starlinks-laser-system-is-beaming-42-million-gb-of-data-per-day

No need to debate on the merits of lasers in space now.

>Brashears also said Starlink’s laser system can connect two satellites over 5,400 kilometers (3,355 miles) apart. The link is so long “it cut down through the atmosphere, all the way down to 30 kilometers above the surface of the Earth,” he said.
>The satellites are constantly forming laser links, resulting in about 266,141 “laser acquisitions” per day, according to Brashears' presentation. But in some cases, the links can also be maintained for weeks at a time

Laser guided conventional missiles from space
Laser weapon melting missiles/jets 5000 km away (instantly, speed of light) with persistent 10-20 kw beam roasting it for minutes at a time (if the beam is weak) and deforming/piercing the missile
Laser guided hypersonic missiles from space

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    friendly reminder that this stuff (inter satellite space based comms links) has been a thing since like the 70s with all important us military satellites having 60ghz radio links (that don't pass through the atmosphere)

    starlink doing it at this scale is really cool and the laser system is, although already demonstrated and proven, still pretty fricking neat.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      NASA only recently tested inter sat space based com last year.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        wrong. again, it's been a thing on us satellites since the cold war. although i'll admit that it's been PROPOSED since the 70s with the first real use apparently being on milstar in the 90s.

        https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=d93ec25e2b0808e3b0f9b8975deccde89df5629e

        >One of the main attraction of MMWs for secure communications. is that the propagation medium appears to offer antijam capability, particularly in the 60 GHz band.
        > Milstar also will be the first operational military communications satellite system to employ a 60 GHz direct satellite-to-satellite link for global coverage.

        https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/milstar-1.htm

        >The Milstar-1 satellites carry a secure, robust low-data-rate (LDR) communications payload, and a crosslink payload that allows the satellites to communicate globally without using a ground station. The Milstar-2 satellites extend the communications capabilities to higher data rates by adding a medium-data-rate (MDR) payload. The Milstar-1 and Milstar-2 satellites are fully interoperable for LDR communications and crosslinks.
        >Like a handshake in space, crosslinks provide rapid, ultra-secure communications by enabling the satellites to pass signals to one another worldwide while requiring only one ground station on friendly soil.

        just wanted to post this since a lot of people believe musk's bullshit about this being the first inter-satellite link flown
        it is afaik the first LASER intersatellite link and absolutely the first one at this scale but intersatellite links are not new and he needs to stfu about it

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >https://www.nasa.gov/technology/space-comms/nasas-first-two-way-end-to-end-laser-communications-system/
          We're talking about lasers in space lmao. NASA only achieved the first intersat laser link in space last year. Starlink was doing before NASA a year or so earlier.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            no, all public messaging about this shit implies that laser intersatellite links ARE intersatellite links and tries to take credit for them.

            >Called Optical Intersatellite Links, these space lasers allow satellites within the constellation to communicate with each other. Since this method bypasses the constant communication between the ground station and satellites, it helps improve internet speeds for customers and reduces the latency of responses.

            this type of messaging needs to be corrected.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              no it does not at all
              its the LASERS that are novel, not intersat links themselves. but the intersat links are still novel! because Iridium - and even oneweb, the other two large communication systems flying currently- DONT HAVE INTERSAT LINKS. they are bent pipes only re-radiating to ground stations (and only work above ground stations). Starlink HAS intersat links, not only do they have these links, they are LASERS. which are really, really novel.

              -starlink has intersat links, others do not
              -other satellites (NRO, GOES, TDRS,) have intersatellite links, but not lasers. There has been a recent (last-year) laser link pilot by NASA, but its not a functioning network service.
              -only starlink has intersat links for large communication networks, and is also the only one with lasers.

              Starlink is leaps and bounds ahead, and yoru messaging is wrong.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Also, Starlink is doing it in massive amount. 3000+ sats have intersats now. Its fricking mind boggling.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                *Laser intersat coms

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >https://www.nasa.gov/technology/space-comms/nasas-first-two-way-end-to-end-laser-communications-system/
                We're talking about lasers in space lmao. NASA only achieved the first intersat laser link in space last year. Starlink was doing before NASA a year or so earlier.

                >it's the first intersatellite link flown operationally
                it certainly is the first for any LEO sats, let alone a large LEO constellation though. a sat-to-sat link (i.e. hubble to TDRS; ISS to TDRS; or one of the NASA tests) is not remotely on the same scale or complexity.

                and the scale is on another level -there's 100s of them, its not a custom-tailored small network.

                to be fair to NASA, it's laser-link is much more attuned for a different purpose - ultra-long range communications, i.e. from mars or the moon to earth. the pointing requirements are different. Right now, the moon&mars imaging orbiters are data-constrained; they could take hundreds more pictures, but couldnt send them back; lasers solve this by massively increasing download bandwith to earth, but require precise pointing at those distances. the New Horizons probe spend 9+ months downlinking data after its flyby, just because radio bandwith + power are issues.

                LEO massive networks require less pointing precision, but they require always-on, dynamic retargeting, multiple lasers per satellite and are mass-produced. both are very, very impressive

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                nasa's test sats for their laserlink are done in LEO, just fyi.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                nope, they've gone past that, its on psyche.
                https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasas-tech-demo-streams-first-video-from-deep-space-via-laser

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Thats space to earth laser com, not space to space intersat laser link

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                true - ESA however did space-to-space with their version of TDRS.

                The difference, weirdly enough between space-to-ground and space-to-space at distances beyond the moon become quite similar; even with the focused nature of lasers, the diffusion of the signal means the beam width is larger than the size of the earth, afaik (especially when looking at psyche-like distances). Starlink satellites dont exactly capture all of the laser beam, but have small telescopes as receivers.
                Psyche was the first communications further than the moon, however.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Starlink satellites dont exactly capture all of the laser beam, but have small telescopes as receivers.
                Its tiny beam out, tiny beam in. But the question is how much is actually lost? If they can maintain 200 Gb/s over that 5400 km distance, that loss doesn't seem that high is my initial point. Whats the optimal spacex laser's bandwidth? I think 200 Gb/s is pretty high. NASA did 1Gb/s with 3.5 laser in space. If we divide 200 Gb/s / 3.5 that gives you 57 watts for Starlink.Thats probably low given the probable signal loss over the 5400 km distance. You think it might be ~100-200 watt? Or 500 watt laser? SpaceX also said they can maintain a laser link continuously for weeks at a time, so it obviously cannot be consuming huge amounts of power, or else the system battery would be consuming extremely fast. So its probably 100 w or less. And ~57w at 5400 is probably realistic. Maybe the initial laser power is less than 100 watts, as that would allow SpaceX to maintain their link for weeks at a time. If we assume 100 watts->57w, thats 40% loss. Its not too bad.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Starlink has had inter-satellite communication since 2021 when the v1.5 sats went up, there are around 1400 Starlink sats that were launched before the switch over that are still up from what i can tell

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What makes the Starlink product novel/good is the fact that it’s a laser and also the extremely high bandwidth. The fact that there are thousands of Starlink sats also helps.

      Are they the first interlinks? No. Are they even the first laser interlinks? No. But they are the first laser interlinks in mass production and they are capable of way more bandwidth than any similar system.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        also this page 1185 / 10 in pdf

        https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA425230.pdf

        and i'm not disputing that it's impressive, it's one of a kind and extremely impressive. but i've personally had enough of musk stating (to the point a lot of people if not literally, practically believe it) that it's the first intersatellite link flown operationally.

        What if I told you pointing a laser at something is a lot like pointing a laser at something?

        [...]
        >it is afaik the first LASER intersatellite link
        Musk has you losers absolutely seething.

        ok are you fricking stupid? i skipped over your bullshit about starlink having lasers equating to space based direct energy weapons being commonplace but apparently you want to stick to it. are you moronic?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >it's the first intersatellite link flown operationally
          it certainly is the first for any LEO sats, let alone a large LEO constellation though. a sat-to-sat link (i.e. hubble to TDRS; ISS to TDRS; or one of the NASA tests) is not remotely on the same scale or complexity.

          and the scale is on another level -there's 100s of them, its not a custom-tailored small network.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >ok are you fricking stupid? i skipped over your bullshit about starlink having lasers equating to space based direct energy weapons being commonplace but apparently you want to stick to it. are you moronic?
          NTA, 5400 of beam connection between 2 small laser sats and the connection maintained for weeks continuously is a key proving ground for laser weapon. We dont know how much watt was used and what the loss rate is, but if they can keep the connection stable with 200 Gb/s bandwidth, then the annenuation problem is minimal. That is ripe for weaponization process.

          All that needs to happen is hook up 10kw of laser power and fire it at a dead sat or space debris. Solar panel on back + battery boost allows that. The question isn't can the beam hit, the question is whats the beam efficiency at what distance. And what the weaponization process looks like.

          We're not in can it work, we're in at what percentage territory now.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Also remember that the most recent Starlink sats have direct to cellular capability. Then once they get starship up and running they'll have current capabilities but just be a lot larger with the starship sats being a little over double the array size of the current ones.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >has been a thing since like the 70s with all important us military satellites having 60ghz radio links
      I assume the main point of using lasers is that solar flares disrupt HF communications, especially since we're near the peak of the current solar cycle

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        HF is 3-30MHz.

        The point of lasers is basic. Higher frequency = more band width.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Laser weapon melting missiles/jets 5000 km away
    >comparing "cooperative" laser communications (that relies on +100dB amplifiers and receiver lens) with DEW
    Are you THAT moronic?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      What if I told you pointing a laser at something is a lot like pointing a laser at something?

      wrong. again, it's been a thing on us satellites since the cold war. although i'll admit that it's been PROPOSED since the 70s with the first real use apparently being on milstar in the 90s.

      https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=d93ec25e2b0808e3b0f9b8975deccde89df5629e

      >One of the main attraction of MMWs for secure communications. is that the propagation medium appears to offer antijam capability, particularly in the 60 GHz band.
      > Milstar also will be the first operational military communications satellite system to employ a 60 GHz direct satellite-to-satellite link for global coverage.

      https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/milstar-1.htm

      >The Milstar-1 satellites carry a secure, robust low-data-rate (LDR) communications payload, and a crosslink payload that allows the satellites to communicate globally without using a ground station. The Milstar-2 satellites extend the communications capabilities to higher data rates by adding a medium-data-rate (MDR) payload. The Milstar-1 and Milstar-2 satellites are fully interoperable for LDR communications and crosslinks.
      >Like a handshake in space, crosslinks provide rapid, ultra-secure communications by enabling the satellites to pass signals to one another worldwide while requiring only one ground station on friendly soil.

      just wanted to post this since a lot of people believe musk's bullshit about this being the first inter-satellite link flown
      it is afaik the first LASER intersatellite link and absolutely the first one at this scale but intersatellite links are not new and he needs to stfu about it

      >it is afaik the first LASER intersatellite link
      Musk has you losers absolutely seething.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anyone know the wavelength of the lasers Starlink is using?

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Oh this reminds me there’s a few experiments and studies going on right now to determine if you can passively use starlink’s communications as a passive radar
    Apparently it’s progressing I didn’t hear about this
    https://www.army-technology.com/news/germany-demonstrates-passive-radar-system-using-starlink-satellite-radiation/?cf-view
    Anyway as the constellation increases this should get better

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