So what would have happened if the Russians didn't pussy out and actually did invade Finland when they applied for NATO? Assuming at least no immediate aid.
So what would have happened if the Russians didn't pussy out and actually did invade Finland when they applied for NATO?
They have literally no forces to invade with in the whole territory of Karelia and Kola peninsula.
>They have literally no forces to invade with in the whole territory of Karelia and Kola peninsula.
FPBP
Putin threw the fricking war. He has been throwing it since 2014 when he refused to mobilize then and there and invade the entirety of the Ukraine.
The only way this would work is if they invaded Finland INSTEAD of Ukraine. In which case, it would have worked fine. Because Finland doesn't have the strategic depth Ukraine does.
Which Russia's strategy and tactics that revolve simply bludgeoning a motherfricker to death at the point of contact would have worked, because they wouldn't have been able to do anything BUT overwhelm all points of Finnish resistance on the way to Helsinki.
I mean yeah, wooptey the Russians ran out of steam and only conquered a slice of Ukraine in the shape of BANANA, but that slice applied to Finland would simply destroy Finland. And yeah, they'd get a nice kill ratio but well.
It would be genuinely impossible for even the dilapidated and raped Russian Federation army to NOT make it to Helsinki and smash everything infront of them.
This is the other thing. The Kiev bumrush frick up wouldn't happen. Sort of.
Overall, Finland would get smushed by Russia, even with the Russians being a giant sack of moronic shit. And that with Finland having defensible terrain.
The Baltic nations don't even have that.
>Because Finland doesn't have the strategic depth Ukraine does.
Lol, are you serius? That coutry is a death trap if you try to push in
>open google maps
>Ukraine has wide fields and many roads between itself and Russia
>Finland has a handful of roads, bedrock and forest between itself and russia
Huh I wonder why Russia was able to take so much land.
Jesus fricking Christ this post was awful. Do yourself a favor and look at a map of Finland and then talk about strategic depth. There's a reason Finland is called the country of a thousand lakes.
Large parts of Finland looks like this, it's completely unconductive to the kind of warfare Russia fights, it would massively empower infantry against even artillery as they could not find a large distance between a shooting field and a forest
Then weigh in infrastructure advantage, art range/precision advantage and better training and it'd be a slaughterhouse
Fenno-Scandinavia is the vietnam of Europe
Oh hey it's my old hometown
Name of hometown? That's beautiful.
Puumala
What is mobilization going to do for you without equipment?
>He has been throwing it since 2014 when he refused to mobilize then and there and invade the entirety of the Ukraine.
Unironically interested as to how that would play out. Ukrainian army was a joke, full of traitors, etc, but the landmass is so huge, there has been no 8 years of "KILL HOHOL KILL HOHOL MUH HEROES OF DONBASS" propaganda on TV (probably even lower morale, bigger domestic opposition), and the West was *slightly* less complacent and demoralized than now
Well the Russians would now be at war with the UK and the US due to the security guarantees they gave during the membership process for Finland joining NATO
talking trees and snipers
Russian army capabilities now are far from what they were before the speshul operation
Russian available army capabilities are as good as zero if they keep up the Ukraine operation at the same time
Ukraine is basically a peer of Russia as far as infantry training and equipment, with some NLAWs thrown in. Finland is leagues above that and have been hardened against Russian invasion for decades. Toss in the significantly better air force and it would be a bloodbath and Russia would be losing hundreds of vehicles and thousands of troops a day. They would never be able to keep up the churn like they have been in Ukraine.
One thing Ukraine has is plenty of infantry with combat experience. 8 years of mostly low intensity combat builds a reserve of plenty of people with experience. Finnish troop deployments to places like Afghanistan where there has been some combat have been tiny compared to that.
Finnish troops have armor, optics, thermals, night vision, etc. They may not have experience shooting donbabians but their tech advantage would blow the frick out of Ukrainians or Russians. That's just at the most basic level. Things like proper air and arty ground control are likely even more of a massive advantage.
Deployments to afghanistan provide negative experience as far as fighting in ukraine is concerned. I recall a story how western volunteers in ukraine camped. The finns knew exactly how to hide in the woods, camouflage, dig in against artillery. Western veterans of the sandbox had no clue.
Finland didn’t ape out and kill Russian civilians for 8 years
Finland is also relatively close to a major Russian city (SPb)
The problem with Finnish infantry is that there are a lot of Russians but not a lot of Finns. Even winter-war-level casualty ratios would be greatly in Russia’s favor
> Superior air force
Lmao it’s just 55 f-18s
How does Russia instigating an armed insurrection and then shelling Ukrainians who fire back count as Ukraine genociding Donbabweans and Lugandans? Also the "people's republics" were literally at no point making decisions themselves, they were fully under Russian control at all times and anyone that opposed the Russian intelligence services suddenly turned up dead.
Russia wasn’t behind the 2014 coup lmao
Russia would send more people unless it could claim some sort of consolation prize like the Soviet Union did when it captured Karelia
I was referring to the Donbabwean and Lugandan shenanigans not the 2014 uprisings. Speaking of 2014 what actually happened was that the government decided to completely go against the will of the people who then ousted the government. I know this is a foreign concept to you because in Russia the government decides and the people obey but in real countries the government is actually accountable to the populace at the end of the day.
>Russia would send more people unless it could claim some sort of consolation prize like the Soviet Union did when it captured Karelia
Then they would. And they would die. And then other european countries would get their heads from their asses and notice that there is actually mutual defense article in EU. And USA would also definitely get involved.
>Russia was behind the coup
Go back to /chug/
>The problem with Finnish infantry is that there are a lot of Russians but not a lot of Finns
That would come into play only if russia did actual mobilization. Finns can match that 200 000 ruskies send into ukraine easily enough even without foreign volunteers.
>Ukraine is basically a peer of Russia as far as infantry training and equipment
This is so far from the truth that even saying it as hyperbole is disingenuous.
>Ukraine is basically a peer of Russia as far as infantry training and equipment
Some Finnish guy training Ukrainians said their infantry tactics mainly boil down to human waves, same as the Russians. Therefore the statement isn't quite incorrect
> Ukraine
> human waves
Are you fricking moronic? Ukrainians have been avoided direct contact at all costs. Their counter-attacks only happen when they have a clear advantage. Russians on the other hand keep zerg-rushing over and over until the goal is accomplished.
I would agree with
if he talk about pre-2014, after this tactics changed a lot.
>Russians on the other hand keep zerg-rushing over and over until the goal is accomplished.
This also changed to artillery spam, but it's somewhat still true for Donbabwe and Lugagwe forces
That's what a guy training them said about the state of Ukrainian tactics, not me. Sue him instead. He said the average Ukrainian soldier is shit at average Western soldiering stuff like fire and maneuver. I can believe it having seen them bunch up together in every video
The Finns wouldn't have stopped at the border. The residents of St. Petersburg would be learning to speak Finnish, and Muscovites would be buying dictionaries just in case.
even our glowBlack folk report that pskov is so fricking empty that russians arent a threat
Much worse than Ukraine. The finns have modern artilery, a capable airforce, have a massive terrain advantage and they are actual whites not slavs(moronic).
The invasion would've been stopped 20km in and by now the whole russian groundforces would've been either dead or injured.
>and they are actual whites
>fingolians
>white
what
>they are actual whites
nice try pekka HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Finland would have fricked them in the ass dry
Same shit as WWII, meat grinder fighting up alpine mountains with horrific levels of casualties. Only difference is this time they would be fought to a complete standstill and never make any breakthroughs
>alpine mountains
Isn't a lot of Finnish civilian infrastructure designed specifically with the idea of being repurposed as shelters or bases in event of a Russian invasion? I distinctly remember a Finnish anon here mentioning that the country has enough shelters and coverage for the entire population, or something along those lines.
They'd have a much larger home turf advantage than the Ukrainians, to say nothing of their actual defense forces.
Yup all buildings past a certain size have to have a bombshelter and all bridges have detonation points ready to collapse them and the same thing has been done with a lot of highways where whenever they go through a cliffside or a hill they drilled stuff to make it ready to collapse in case of war. Also the country maintains a very sizeable stockpile of all medical stuff and especially imported drugs and strategic supplies in case of war. All command posts are built under about 40 meters of granite and most ammunition depots are built underground as well.
Yeah, seems about right. Finland's probably one of, if not the most heavily entrenched nation on the planet when it comes to defensive infrastructure.
Yes, Sweden too. Schools are built like hospitals, some roads are built so they can be used as runways, almost all buildings have bomb shelters etc.
lots of motti to be chopped
Russia pulled all of their forces from the Finnish border to send to Ukraine after Finland applied to NATO. Assuming they used those troops to attack instead, then they'd be suffering devastating losses on 2 fronts instead of slowly being bled dry on 1. That's assuming NATO for whatever reason doesn't step in and it's just the Finns fighting off whatever pathetic border guard force Russia can muster by themselves.
Russia threatened to attack Finland if they joined NATO because realistically it was the only thing they could actually do, threaten. They don't have the economic leverage to put pressure on the Finns and any military action would realistically see St. Petersburg turned to rubble within the month.
Russsians have dedicated ~80% of their forces towards Ukraine and are having shortages fielding men, thats why they're recruiting hard and paying 5-10x what they normally pay for soldiers.
Imagine all the mulatto babies from Finland becoming a US military base.
God I'd love to breed a fin woman
A different question. Why is the Amos weapon system so goddamn sexy? Is it the dual guns? It's probably the dual guns.
At least all of the Patria propaganda vids make it look cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfF52zBzr6k
Read an opinion from a guy who basically said that it was way too expensive for a simple mortar.
Its not a simple mortar though. Its a mortar woth direct fire capability combined into an APC
Lots of dead Ivans.
VGH
Old blood must be settled.
Petersbugr will be fingolmaxxed and incorporated into the empire.
Streets of Seoul will run red from Euroshopper Enegry Drink 250ml.
Actual assrape.
Finnbros alone would absolutely shit on them. Nevermind Swedish + NATO/EU support.
Finlands' military has had one goal in mind ever since the end of ww2: Repel the Russians, or at the very least decimate their military in the process.
And they have functioning equipment, and a functional command structure, and morale.
Well we've seen how invading one country is going for them. I'm going to guess we would see a rapid and total defeat.
Finland has some of the best trained basic infantry in the world, right up there with the Brits and Danes. Finland also has substantially more international good will than Ukraine. Invading Finland would be see by Europe and North America as an invasion of Europe proper, instead of just some former soviet march between civilization and Russia.
Russia would suffer badly I think.
>Russian colons
Finnish socks
>Russian mouths
Finnish wienerholsters
>Russian corpses
Finnish sandbags
only thing I'm hearing about Ukraine lately is Biden Admin is wandering around looking for an exit and trying to find new things to fill the news cycles.
Whats the Over/Under date on USMC choppers doing evac of US State Dept's Israelis from the roof of the US Embassy in Kiev?
I'm taking March 15 (Ides of March 🙂 2023, which will be about two weeks after a big State Of The Union etc where Biden and Lloyd Austin assure American People that US backed regime is "strong, safe and secure and we are planning the future together" etc.
If this war is still going on in March of next year it'll end with Emperor Zelensky the 1st installed as the leader of the Reformed Greater Kievan Rus at a ceremony in Red Square in front of the ruins of the Kremlin.
They literally announced biggest transfer of weapons to Ukraine just a week ago. Wtf are you talking about?
>only thing I'm hearing about Ukraine lately is Biden Admin is wandering around looking for an exit
You mean this is the latest info you got directed to spread. Tell your handlers that you need at least some info to go with your bullshit.
Recent world-wide statistics on population motives to fight an invading force, even if the outcome was uncertain, finns had the highest percenrage in the whole world.
https://www.ft.com/content/c5e376f9-7351-40d3-b058-1873b2ef1924
Finns don't frick around
I would like to believe that maybe the guy managed to close in enough that the fuel being sprayed hadn't actually caught fire yet, but its impossible for me to believe someone ran through an actual wall of fire and lived
Make your suit wet and that is just a sauna.
if you have water to evaporate off (i.e. be in the snow) and are fast enough, it's more than possible
It was like -30c with snow everywhere, it's not unbelievable
What kind of fuel were the Soviets using in their flamethrowers?
They would have gotten their ass kicked by Finns as there was simply not enough equipment near Finland. Hells Finns alone without any foreign extra stuff would have had at least three times the amount of equipment Russia could have thrown at them.
The only alternatives would have been to quickly withdraw completely from Ukraine and rush the equipment there over to Finnish border, or start a nuclear war.
Finnish equipment is leagues above anything the Russians have. It would be a Russian slaughterhouse.
First you have to assume that they can conjure another 150-300k men out of thin air. Once that condition is satisfied then:
>Every single traversable road riddled with mines
>Every single tree has a MANPADS behind it
>Every single square inch of land at the Finno-Russian border pre-ranged for artillery
>Up against an enemy that is trained and equipped to full 1st world standard and whose entire military doctrine has been built around defending against what you're currently doing
Sigh.
The fact that RU military CAN’T invade Poland is irrelevant. Russia isn’t worried about invasion, being a major nuclear power their deterrence is super strong. Russia is secure against enemy invasions, and Putin knows it FULLY well.
Military security has almost NOTHING to do with Putin’s policy choices. Everything he’s done in Ukraine has to do with his REAL security issue: sales of Russian gas to Europe and especially Germany. That money is the source of Putin’s astounding wealth, and, more importantly, the foundation of Putin’s and his circle power. Russian politics revolves around bribes and corruption, and those gas sales is the source of that soft power. The West bringing in Ukraine is like a gun being held to Putin’s head. Not only does Ukraine have almost all the hydrocarbon export facilities, they also have huge shale gas deposits discovered about 10 years ago. Exactly why the West pulled Ukraine into their orbit to begin with.
Unless you understand the real geopolitical situation and Putin’s power structure you’ll never understand his goals or motivations.
Invade with what, exactly? They've got everything tied up in Ukraine. They can't even stop the Azerbaijanis from retaking nagorno karabakh. It takes some special kind of stupid shit c**t delusion to think they're in a position to start another failed invasion.
Invade with what? Their entire available military is committed to Ukraine
Ukraine when the war started:
Not well prepared. No long-range weapons other than obsolescent Tochka-U, 2S7 and vaporware Neptune.
Finland:
Well prepared. JASSM, M270 w/ GMLRS and ER-GMLRS, Gabriel V. JASSM-ER on the way.
So yeah, it wouldn't go very well.
>Ukraine
>not well prepared
They had 6 years of constant supplies from Western powers. They didn't get any of the big toys because noone was producing them in large quantities due to the Pandemic shit.
Ukraine's issue was Zelensky was a massive homosexual and spent the month of Russia moving equipment as a "training operation" telling the US and UK, who clearly have intel a thousand times more reliable and accurate than the homosexual israelite, that there was no chance of an invasion and that it was just sword rattling because it would have cost Zelensky's government a billion bucks a day to mobilise the army to prevent the invasion. Russia then invaded and rushed as fast as they could, not securing their supply lines as a result, to reach Kiev and cause Zelensky to capitulate.
It's also why Zelensky took a big shit on the Ukrainian male populace by closing the border after the israeli populations all left in short order rather than closing the borders immediately upon invasion and imposing the draft.
I hope the Ukrainians fighting realise that once the war is over and that they got screwed harder than they should have by Zelensky by his ego and his kinship being more important than the country he ran.
Your basically dealing with the same situation as Ukraine with a few changes.
>No Donbabweans to act as cannon fodder.
>Weather is cold as frick.
>The FINNs actually have an air force that can SEAD and the west can give more planes for.
>Blockading would be more difficult.
>You can’t invade from a neighboring country like with Belarus in Ukraine.
>The element of surprise is now gone.
Over all I would expect the Russian experience in that campaign to be, extremely painful.
>The FINNs actually have an air force that can SEAD and the west can give more planes for.
Can they acutally? Many europoor airforces don't even stock anti-radiation missiles
pic related agm-88 operators
>You need dedicated HARM missiles to do air defense suppression.
Vatnik know-nothing detected
It is easier to do it with anti-radar missile but you can do without.
desu, they should just place a few tanks in the forest and make a declaration of war.
The Finns wouldn't invade Russia, but they also wouldn't touch the tanks as they'd just be replaced/defended and Russia could perpetually wienerblock their NATO admission because they wouldn't want to retroactively start a war.
>The Finns wouldn't invade Russia,
Explain why not? Nukes are a meme and Russia couldn't stop finland from taking Moscow
You think the Finns have the military capability or that they would want to risk any retaliation from Russia if they're just a handful are idling in an unpopulated area?
What retalation? If they do anything Finns will just firebomb St Petersburg into a crater.
score "they're" from that sentence
Finland is in the EU. If they were invaded the Article 42.7 of the Treaty of Lisbon would make the rest of the EU come to their rescue. Now unironically I wonder if the US would follow as well.
Their defense plan leaked not long ago
>both inhabitants
>So what would have happened
War probably. Or it is possible our woman goverment might have surrendered immediately
Initial tidal wave of tactical victories for Finlande.
Then the pool of troops would dry out fast for the finns.
They'll win most battles, including in the air but they'll have to keep all their frontline units active 100% of the time just to meet Russia's numbers.
This will wear them down quickly if Russia accept to take the initial casualties to achieve this.
Then the tide will reverse and Finland will sue for peace.
Or NATO will have slaughtered Russia over the screams of "-muh nukes!!"