thedrive.com/the-war-zone/top-ukraine-war-lessons-from-usafs-commander-in-europe
>The U.S. and NATO employ ACE to some extent in Europe as well, said Hecker. But nowhere as much as Ukraine.
>“We have to make sure we can be as proficient as they are,” he said of the Ukrainians, who employ their own version of ACE every day, throwing off Russia's ability to target their aircraft with standoff weapons.
>The U.S. had more of that capability during the Cold War, when there were more bases in Europe for U.S. combat aircraft to land, receive needed maintenance and rearm. Restoring that ability is a priority, said Hecker.
>the U.S. and NATO need “a good integrated air and missile defense system,” said Hecker. “We are really trying to improve our capability there because we know that’s what we need to protect ourselves.”
>His comments also come a day after the U.S. government approved a $3.5-billion German purchase of Israeli-made Arrow 3 missile defense systems. That deal brings the kind of anti-ballistic missile capability to Western Europe that Hecker said was needed as militaries in that region increasingly look at increasing their resilience to potential ballistic missile attacks from Russia.
Head of USAF in Europe casually says that he is working hard on CATCHING UP to the level of the Ukrainian air force as well as imitating their GBAD-focused doctrine.
From the first day of this war, every Western expert opinion has been consistently wrong about everything, and every time the final line of cope was always, always muh air force. Russian VKS gets pwned by SAMs and MANPADS and can’t even prevent the ukies from flying their own, outnumbered and outgunned air force? Ackshually, it’s only because they can’t SNEED like the mighty McAirforce® can. Le combined arms NATO offensive doctrine turns out to be a complete fraud against an enemy that shoots back? Ackshually, McAirforce® would’ve made it work. And now it turns out that the force meant to be the ultimate enabler of NATO’s way of war has to CATCH UP to the air force of the poorest country in Europe.
You know where else I’ve seen this? Russia. They too have a bloated MIC complex that gobbled up trillions of *national currency* allegedly to build up the X strongest military in the world. They too have thousands of fighter planes and other combat vehicles on paper. They too have spent decades jerking off to the thought of being a military superpower. And then one day they ran into reality and it turned out they’d been drinking kool-aid all along.
At this point, our only collective hope is that China is just as much of a potemkin village and the future war between America and China would be an anemic slap fight between two flavors of backward thirdies. And not something like France vs Germany in WW2 where “the strongest military in the world” got crushed within a few weeks.
You're right both Russian and the US have spent a bunch of money on their "wunderwaffe" 5th gen fighters. How many 5th gen fighters does Russia have?
Do we have to post it again.
Comparing the Slavfest in Ukraine to this masterpiece should be a fuckin crime
>Head of USAF in Europe casually says that he is working hard on CATCHING UP to the level of the Ukrainian air force
and where does the article say that. please show the exact quote. preferably not the one that talks about how ukies (in active war) are shifting airframes around more than nato (not in active war) currently does in europe
>believing the military when it says it sucks for the 572939371456th time
> "We have to make sure we CAN be as proficient as they are,”
can be as in they can ramp up to that level in a shooting war
In the run-up to Desert Storm, the U.S. was predicting 30,000 coalition casualties within the first 20 days of the conflict.
No it wasn't. Politicians who had a flawed understanding of war said this. This is like saying the US believes that Ukraine has taken 1m casualties because some retarded congressman said so
>The PERSCOM (Personnel Command) commander had estimated 20,000
casualties in the first five days.
Not 30k, but still much higher than what actually happened.
All sorts of numbers were being thrown around at the time...
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-09-05-mn-776-story.html
There was no consensus
>https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/20030122.pdf
Nobody predicted the curbstomping but the 30,000 figure comes from an expectation of the air campaign being 1/10th as destructive as it was and weeks of combat. Also the effectiveness of Iraqi armor was wayyy overstated
All that mattered was everyone thought thousands would die retaking Kuwait and 292 died through out the whole conflict lol
>give us MORE MONEY says army for the 7623476237265 time
>Le combined arms NATO offensive doctrine turns out to be a complete fraud against an enemy that shoots back?
May I remind you that the Iraqi army had the 4th largest army in the world at the time and were using the same weapons that 90% Russia's forces are using right now? May I also remind you that Desert Storm was one of the most successful military campaigns in all of human history?
Dont forget that Iraqi units were often blooded, with extensive experience fighting the Iranians AND the Kurds. On paper, the Iraqi army had both conventional and irregular experience, had basically the best military assets oil money could buy, chemical weapons, and a seemingly fanatical Republican Guard. We didnt expect the Volunteer-Conscript gulf to be so high, let alone how devastating wiping out their command and control would be, since Saddam basically made an army useless without him holding their hand.
>be American
>"uhhhh we suck and our shit is all retarded please give us 20 trillion dollars so we can have parity"
>be Russian
>"blyat we are strong the best western pussies will crumble before us"
>*steal half of whatever money you do get*
and that's why the Gulf War went the way it did and why on day 540 of the 3 day special operation we're seeing T-54s in the hopes that this 12th wave will finally capture this village of 10 houses
>and why on day 540 of the 3 day special operation we're seeing T-54s in the hopes that this 12th wave will finally capture this village of 10 houses
With all due respect Anon, I don't think that's a fair assessment. The Russians have given up on trying to capture that village of ten houses with another wave; now they're just hoping they can slow down the AFU advance enough to avoid another humiliating rout like the ones they suffered last year.
Bizarre cope you're displaying.
>Ackshually, it’s only because they can’t SNEED like the mighty McAirforce® can
you seriously made a conscious decision to write this out and then made another decision to post this
only person who can help you now is jesus bud
Here’s your childhood friends 🙂
You guys do know the mobik cube was debunked. It was pig livers and organs someone donated to an animal shelter for food that sat and rotted
>DEBOONKED
Of course the cube was never mobiks, but that's not the point. The point was how rabidly defensive the ziggers got when it was located to Russian territory.
>cube image appears
>ziggers claim Ukronazis are losing so many people they have to put them into cubes
>cube is geolocated to belgorod
>ziggers immediately cry out nothing to see here, is only animal parts for a local processing plant, or donated offal for local shelter
>a processing plant that only handles poultry
>a local shelter that doesn't exist
Their frantic denials planted the idea that it might actually just be classic Russian projection at work and it was actually cubed mobiks, and to this day there is a sliver of what if in everyone's minds.
you're too obviously just one guy saying this over and over and over and over in the same autistic over-long format each time. people tune it out bc it's clearly just you talking to yourself. you have to make it more of a dialectic if you want anyone to actually take the bait and spread the retelling where the zigs were actually panicked.
for how much time some of u anons spend repeating the same posts for persuasive purposes, you really need some basic lessons in info ops and how to manipulate human psycholog. just saying something a lot doesn't make people eventually think it's true. people find the cube funny so they repost mobikube media. you're not making them believe the backstory any more than they did beforehand by acting like you're mildly retarded.
LMAO, that's some serious projecting you're doing there.
The board doesn't forget how you zigger tards tried to pass it off as Ukrainian dead and then went into full chimpout mode when it was geolocated to Russia. There is no "retelling" in his post, only a statement of facts. Again, PrepHole remembers, and no amount of subhuman zigger shills trying to gaslight like you are right now will change that.
Tl:dr: Get in the cube, Vanya.
You missed the entire cope of ziggers doing a 180 in thread after find it was in Russia and calling it efficient and that noone should insult efficiency on the battlefield kek.
can't believe I missed the cube saga, any screencaps?
>It was pig livers and organs
Please, Anon, call them orcs at least. They deserve that much dignity at least. They were your countrymen after all, even if they were Churka filth.
Thank you for deboonking. No one cares.
>You guys do know that cats can't actually talk, right? No cat could ever say "I can has cheezburger?"
You are severely autistic
why the fuck has no one edited this to say "contains 3 men" instead of "serves 3 men" yet man
it's so much funnier
Meds. NOW.
Fart off, Armatard
You aren’t putting much effort into your false flagging
This sounds so retarded to my Ukrainian ass. I know a little bit about US, most of my family are Americans.
>NATO armies take steps to prepare for war
More news at 11
nothing wrong with what he said and you're extrapolating wildly because mentally ill or for yous
Nogun newfag tourist here.
It seems to me what OP is bragging about wouldn't matter even if Russia had air superiority over the "annexed" territories. They don't seem to have this and don't seem to have it on their own border. Or even maybe a dozen miles inside their own borders.
Am I incorrect here? Are we discussing air superiority with someone arguing in favor of a nation that doesn't have this in a nation they invaded, that they border, and they have in fact lost air superiority on their own borders instead?
Tell me I'm taking crazy pills or am just a midwit. That makes more sense to me right now.
>Are we discussing air superiority with someone who
>we
us vs. them is an unproductive way to look at it. OP is pushing a tendentious reading of an article on a strategic shift that is in fact underway, presumably because he's bored and lacks hobbies and/or a loser fanboy of some shithole country with an airforce that isn't the USAF. some anons are replying on his terms, in turn, because they're more interested in browbeating OP for trying to mock the USAF than the subject matter. they're all just noise.
the US and NATO lack experience with 'ACE' because it wasn't a core operational concept until recently for anyone but sweden. this is obvious on its face when you cut out the acronym-jargoneering and frame it like: when was the last time the us air force was under such persistent threat of attack from long-range fires that fighters had to take off from highways more often than airbases?
for background on this, see the people linked in
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/58897726/#q58899404
Good post
I think it’s good the US is adapting to any possible scenarios, no matter the likelihood they will have to fight in those conditions.
Same goes with drone warfare. You’ve seen US policy makers be humbled by drone warfare and devise countermeasures with Ukrainians in real time to assist their military. This war was a massive case study for US policy makers on the shifts in warfare, without losing American soldiers to find it out.
>no matter the likelihood they will have to fight in those conditions
I can see how my earlier reply might be interpreted, without the further context of digging into the stuff I linked, as downplaying the likelihood of future dispersion or "airstrip" heterogeneity requirements based on prior precedent, or downplaying the value of working these things into doctrine even if they realistically only amount to low-odds tail risks. Just to clarify, that wasn't what I was going for.
It's definitely a good thing to see concepts and kit tested in ukraine, yeah. Something I think people from heavily authoritarian societies systematically underestimate is the significantly greater value of transferrable skills from """lessons learned""" in more open societies, in terms of https://enwp.org/hybrid_vigor and net payoff for subsequent inputs back into the system.
for instance, yes - there are high-level planning / modeling / strategic shifts afoot, with nato wonks taking down a bunch of spreadsheet warrior info in hopes of restructuring something-rather for fiscal year whogivesafuck. these might mean fuckall for practical value add, 10 or 30 years down the line. but there are also things being picked up at every level of integration. mechanics, engineers, logisticians.
but even randoms who happen to be citizens of nato members and in r&d, but not /military/ r&d proper prior to this conflict, are coming back with all kinds of info that will inform where nato goes next. this bottom-up stuff isn't sustainable for shitworlders, bc even if you're (relatively) good at it, eventually you get dosed with Hispanicy tea or your plane crashes with no survivors.
important to read between the lines here a bit. kps won't exist without western aircraft. the ball is now rolling. this will be more than a little expensive & tedious for both US and UA. now a backgrounder article appears about how murica, too, can learn from the plucky ukrainians. so it goes.
>anticipating and attempting to solve a problem before it results in "11818, of which: destroyed: 8042, damaged: 470, abandoned: 442, captured: 2864"
More ISIS-American warcrime tactics from HATO
>fight a war in Europe in the future
Against who? Russia already spent so much equipment and manpower that they aren't a threat really.
There isn't going to be war in europe after this. Maybe a russian civil war, but eh.
but what if Putin unleashes his secret real army of bears on unicycles?
Eventually one of the continentals will become retarded
the real master is humble and learns from anyone
you would want the USAF to be arrogant and dismissive if you were a competitor
>americans discovering that there are countries with decent AA instead of sticks and stones
>decent AA
the russian air force and SEAD capabilities is just hot garbage. The U.S. is always downplay their capabilities because the US military and their MIC are just a bunch of perfectionists. Even a slight error requires the entire thing to be made as reference on what not to do.
Yep, patriot batteries just casually destroyed dozens of hypersonic wunderwaffen in Kiev while S-420 is getting turned to fireworks every week by things like GMLRS which should be well within it's abilities to intercept, on paper.
i dont know if you followed the war like at all but both of them have a shitload of AA and manpads
which is why we saw the shitstorm for the better part of the war because it was overcast and they were forced to conduct operations below the cloud ceiling
>The U.S. is always downplay their capabilities
yes yes the usual story because surely usa has seen any sort of AA action after vietnam
the fact that you believe any number given by ukraine or russia is beyond me
you are talking about a country that LITERALLY and casually posted many times 100% interception rates
>you are talking about a country that LITERALLY and casually posted many times 100% interception rates
this isn't unbelievable when they're reporting on barrages of braindead (preprogrammed) shaheds and under a dozen PGMs at a time that russia's still gluing parts onto as they're tossed out the factory floor. russia fell into a cycle of only being able to mass sufficient quantities of fires to go for a large-scale strike once every two weeks, then every three weeks, then once a month.
they were slowly but surely grinding away at GBAD stocks, but this plan went to shit once UA managed to nail down a massive S300 supply as an interim fix and longterm deals for resupplying their nato systems.
it is quite unbelievable because patriots has being proven quite literally shit in saudi arabia
we dont know much about iris-t
as for nassams i dont know i havent found any sort of non redacted info about the first gen perfomance neither for the second one there is only some info about the third so i guess its also not very good
mainly cause aim 120 isnt really a fucking agile missile like aim 9x is
and the biggest red flag of ukraine's bullshit is this one..(well two)
one the iron dome probably the most battle proven system with top notch aesa radar and laser guided pip system and it never ever has an 100% success
and second well..the s400/s300 up untill the patriot came it was doing quite well in both of their hands
it seems to be just a pr bullshit in the end of the day
name as single time they actually did it against a layered AA
let me save you some time
N
E
V
E
R
and it doesnt help that doing sead with overcast is retarded because laser guidance doesnt work
ins is risky because they might as well move some of the vehicles
so yes we are back again on the same problem
the pilots had to fly below the cloud ceiling and that exposed them to manpads
>name as single time they actually did it against a layered AA
Iraq?
iraq had layered AD?
are you smoking crack son?
the very first thing they did was to send the legion and sas to cut out the f.o which we also get the amazing story of b20
they fired some missiles here and there but nothing really structured at all
>You realize that HARMs don’t use laser guidance, right?
i didnt mentioned it because i ASSUME they are competent enough to understand this threat
(but then you can argue that they are russians..)
>How so?
its shit and im not even talking about s.a ones im talkinga bout the ones from greece and germany pac 3s that were suppose to guard the airport and the refinery
>I don’t think that the Patriot is claimed to have a perfect 100% interception rate
obviously its 100% for all but still its insane to even think about it
>and it doesnt help that doing sead with overcast is retarded because laser guidance doesnt work
You realize that HARMs don’t use laser guidance, right?
> it is quite unbelievable because patriots has being proven quite literally shit in saudi arabia
How so?
>one the iron dome probably the most battle proven system with top notch aesa radar and laser guided pip system and it never ever has an 100% success
I don’t think that the Patriot is claimed to have a perfect 100% interception rate
>yes yes the usual story because surely usa has seen any sort of AA action after vietnam
Yes, because the US knows how to conduct SEAD/DEAD effectively
>Haha you're not running into danger blindly that makes you weak
Why are third worlders this retarded?
Everyones coping about everything in this thread is delicious, had a good 10 minute giggle : D
oh dear voters and lawmakers, trust me, our equipment sucks and we are seeing levels of warfare that would be overwhelming if we had to do it ourselves
thankfully, for the low low price of a trillion billion dollars, we can anticipate this!