So this is the might of post WWII Liberal World Order Posted on February 27, 2023 by PrepHole Contributor So this is the might of post WWII Liberal World Order
Rejoice : you have another year to advance.
That's nearly two more Bakhmuts for the Tsar.
who seriously expected amrams to be in ukraine this year tho? biden did it to push krauts with leos because they're that much of a cucks and can't do shit without big daddy USA.
easier for europe to provide the tanks - while USA provides a lot of other shit. abrams will get there when they get there.
Actually it's the opposite, it's Germany that pressured the USA into sending tanks too
>biden did it to push krauts with leos because they're that much of a cucks and can't do shit without big daddy USA.
Sooo why not send abrams based biden bro?
Did you dumbass forgot that the m1a2 orders are backlogged? The U.S. will not sacrifice their orders and Ukraine will have to stay on the waiting list. The factory is building new exports per week, but those tanks are already reserved for other nations(Saudi arabia, iraq and so on). The U.S. can not sell tanks with DU because of federal laws, so the tanks will have to be refitted into a different hull.
The US was really gay with that one. That being said get in the Wagner pile.
Imagine being dead and everyone else just keep on living, wtf.
What gets me is it only took a few hours for them to claim they were dead ukrainians
but anon, those are oinkrainians.
why do you feel the need to spread your delusion to others?
Imagine the smell.
Copper, dead fish smell, and rotting corpses. If you've never smelt it you don't want to....
corpses just smell like raw sewage
it's just what decay smells like, not some cursed odor that will scar you forever
This is false. Mass human corpses has a particular smell
>t. kosovo crew chief.
>fagnerites dying for russian dictator, and people on internet are laughing
can you imagine how much money solovyev's son would make if he got an onlyfans and started doing "baby pidor pipedown dedovshchina" content? he could easily make 10 million dollars.
thats alot of dead piggers
Is the DU armor really that big a secret? I wish the US could give Ukraine a whole pile of tanks from the surplus stock rather than make new export models.
Yes, it is.
The Abrams is old tech, but when you realize that almost no one has made a new tank since 1989, and the Abrams has been getting modernization packages every 8 years since the fall of the USSR, that's a pretty big deal.
The t-14 is newer and better lmao
>"In July 2018, Deputy Prime Minister for Defence and Space Industry Yury Borisov said there is currently no need to mass-produce the Armata when its older predecessors, namely the latest variants of the T-72, remain "effective against American, German and French counterparts", saying, "Why flood our military with Armatas, the T-72s are in great demand on the market(s)." Instead, a modernization program of the T-72s, T-80s and T-90s in-service will take precedence. In August 2018, at the ARMY2018 Forum outside Moscow, the Russian Ministry of Defense signed a contract for the purchase of 32 T-14s tanks and 100 T-15 infantry fighting vehicles, with delivery to be finished by 2021."
>32 T-14s tanks and 100 T-15 infantry fighting vehicles, with delivery to be finished by 2021
And they'll be more than a match for the 14 (?) Leopard 2's.
>True, it's hard for a Javelin to lock onto things that don't exist.
The Javelins haven't been used since september, you barely find videos of them being used lol
>The Javelins haven't been used since september, you barely find videos of them being used lol
Russians are currently using their vehicles for mine clearing duty, making Javelin useless
In August 2022. based on experience from conflict in Ukraine, Russian army requested, and engineers suggested following improvements
increased range for APS detection of potential threat and, also, increased range for "hard kill" action measures of Afghanit
improved T-14 all-out shielding against RPGs and ATGMs
enhanced electronics protection against electromagnetic and microwave weapons
new system for remotely deactivating AT land mines
>new system for remotely deactivating AT land mines
Sending wave after wave of men over them
I have no idea how they would remotely deactivate them honestly it's like they're living in delusion.
Blowing up the preceding vehicle counts as remote.
>improved T-14 all-out shielding against RPGs and ATGMs
Told ya the turret armor was weak. If the APS fails to catch the shot the turret is GONE
>So why waste armor budget on putting armor there
>We will just retreat and repair and if are in a nuclear war we cant be fucked to repair it so why bother
Seems in line with soviet design tbh
>Dies to autocannon hitting it at 30 degrees as the gun breech and electronics are torn up.
T-14s aren't being used outside of military parades, you will find exactly zero videos of them on the front
>if I can't see it then it doesn't exist
>remain "effective against American, German and French counterparts"
Is that even true? Would it fare decently against M60A3s and Leopards 1A5?
We don't have M60s anymore. Nor does anyone still field Leopard 1s. Germany and Canada retired theirs. The US military has been an all-Abrams force since 1997.
True, it's hard for a Javelin to lock onto things that don't exist.
>Is the DU armor really that big a secret?
Also it's fucking heavy as absolute fuck, and that's a really serious consideration for Ukrainian logistics and operation.
the Challenger tanks they're sending weigh MORE than a SEPv3 if they have their TES kits
now wait and watch him cope with the fuel consumption
>ok, and the tanks have had an APU since 1990. They've also undergone several programs to improve fuel consumption including TIGER
>u-um welll uh
The Abrams has T-I-G-E-R-S????
Did somebody say T-I-G-E-R-S?
That's correct. A tiny piece of a melted down Tiger tank and a strand of Micheal Wittman's hair are baked into the metal of every Abrams tank, in order to boost the crew's skills with otherworldly powers
And they'll be using Challengers less than Leos, accordingly, rest assured. The weight consideration is something Ukrainian tankers themselves have brought up regarding the prospect of western tanks, this isn't controversial.
Are you sure about that?
Do you know what a Leo 2A6 weighs with its anti-mine and SLAT kit? I have a feeling you don't.
>2A6: 62.3 tonnes (68.7 short tons)
>M1A2 SEP v3: 73.6 short tons (66.8 t)
>Challenger 2: 64 t (63 long tons; 71 short tons)
bro they're all basically the same
Yes. DU armor is complex and reactive to being hit. First generation versions increased protection 30-35% over just regular NERA. We should roughly be in 4th gen DU arrays assuming the new NGAP/NEA armor packages include it
DU has extreme erosive effects and resists penetrations via dilatant expansion
"Dilatancy means that the volume of the ceramic increases when it is pulverized, that is, when a zero-porosity brittle armor ceramic is pulverized, the hard angular particles of the pulverized powder occupy a larger volume than the dense parent ceramic."
"The dilatant expansion opposes penetration, and enhances grinding and erosion. A thick ceramic, and a dilatant response, maximizes the “dwell time,” that is, the time during which a projectile penetrator can be eroded inside the pulverized ceramic. This is very important for APDS long-rod penetrators so as to maximize the erosion and grinding down of the fast moving projectile as its shattered remains travel through the abrasive grit of the pulverized ceramic in the fracture conoid, that is, the ceramic grit expands into the shattered remains of the fast moving projectile and thereby impedes its motion and enhances its erosion."
that kinda sounds like the missile knows where it is pasta.
It do. All MIC science papers are robotic and funny sounding .
>"Hot isostatically pressed metal/ceramic constraint cells"
Gotta be exact lol
>Hot isostatically pressed
That means they're trying to increase density/reduce porosity using a process that is conceptually similar to pressure cooking but the working fluid is an inert g as instead of water. Probably could get some of those .50 cal resistant glowplates from that process.
Yup, now imagine how fucking dense a Hot pressed Depleted Uranium-Ceramic product would be?
What gets me is that would be a fillerless ceramic. Even high performance cemented carbides are that, cemented together. Lathe and mill carbide tooling uses nickel and other metals as a binder. The glowium ceramic is effectively closer to a monoblock of abrasive media that wants to expand into the penetration channel like a sponge when it begins to fracture. The approximate volumetric expansion ratio would be rad to know since it'd likely explain why a DU-ceramic matrix is no export. If it has more effectiveness than ERA flyer plates then that'd be one high performance element.
You absolutely cannot let an exemplar of the DU-ceramic fall into enemy hands it would be a materials science boon for le near peer.
Honestly I would be concerned about China of all the countries being able to grab some examples because they have the potential to actually mass produce something like that.
>When that one engine bay fire disabled Abrams got smacked by a Maverick and it wasn't enough for it to be considered destroyed so they hit it with a Hellfire and more after.
I wonder what kind of secrets that we don't know about the hull upper plate exists. Supposedly it got increased in thickness from some photos of it looking like it had more welded on but I have to wonder if there was an opportunity to shove special elements in there. Of course the area around the hatch is still going to be thin but given the knowledge regarding long rod penetrators and critical angles and the design of modern ones being made to have smaller ones...
Definitely was increased in thickness, see pic rel. Not so sure about special elements, it wouldn't be a bad idea and would increase protection against bomblets etc but I'm not sure there's enough space within 80-100mm of spaced laminate to get enough performance against KE rods even with the angling. There was a time when older 105mm sabots would probably have been stopped by the angle of the UFP. I think 54mm or whatever the A2 plates are provided around 400mm of steel when angled. The increase in thickness is maybe to help increase protection against modern DU/WHA penetrators and I'm not sure that even if angles helping the UFP can stop them on any tank.
An 82 degree angled plate provides 400mm of protection? At LoS you shouldn't be even able to penetrate that, the angle is too sharp. If he's below you though that's another story.
Weird thing about long rod penetrators at those angles, in simulations apparently they glide across the UFP and abrade against it, slowly sort of burrowing down into the plate. some of the penetrator deflects into the turret ring and usually the ass end of the rod makes it through. It leaves a very long almost canyon like hole.
One in particular I'm remembering was a 3BM42 vs a 38mm Abrams upper front plate.
Pretty sure that was later increased to 51-54mm and the SEPV3 has an even thicker plate so who knows how it would work now.
Simulations aren't perfect of course but it was very interesting
please tell me you're not getting your info from that indian cope channel
No? There's multiple people that run the same armor simulations.
you don't have to read the whole thing but it essentially the critical angle of long rod penetrations is very difficult to pin down, they sometimes can bite into very angled plates, and sometimes they don't. the video simulations are a nice visual aid and essentially show the same type of interaction happening
Those are weight sims for the APS system not increased armor, i fell for it a couple weeks ago
we only see these on tanks in Europe doing training with APS systems.
was referring to the upper front plate only but yes those counterweights are weird lol
>DU covered polystyrene
DU ceramics and other glowmoron plating like this are pretty much why I always claim the frontal turret on an Abrams is gonna be immune to pretty much any threats. It would take an absolutely fuck huge diameter shaped charge or a 1000mm long rod penetrator made out of similarly special materials to deal with it. Many people don't take into account just how thick the armor is on an Abrams (or leopard for that matter) from what I've gathered from measurements online and people calculating approximate thickness the Abrams frontal turret around 960mm thick from LOS. the newest SEPV3 added around 100mm of thickness. Nearly 42 inches of exceptionally classified glow array. The leopard including the wedge armor in the front is around 59 inches with 35-40 inches being actual array IIRC.
My guy a MAVERICK hit this frontal array.
The M1A2 and beyond are TOUGH
Genuinely curious if that 65 made it through the array, I expect it did tbh but still didn't do enough damage. What's crazy is that's from 2003 which means it's much older generation DU/NERA. If it DID manage to eat a 300mm HEAT then assuming the mavericks warhead follows the usually 5 to 7 times the diameter Monroe effect meme then you'd assume the frontal turret would have nearly 1500-2100mm of protection against chemical energy. That's insane.
You can see why top attack weapons are absolutely necessary and the fact that the T-14's active defense doesn't cover top attack is mind numbingly retarded
it gets to the point where RHA standard is just not good enough - and that's not even considering the cookoff management employed by non-Russhit tanks
i know one of the common cited "killed Abrams" videos is of the blowout panels functioning and the crew is literally fine despite their tank seeming to explode
Burgers like their crew survivability
>They compressed the shit out of the ceramics so when it starts to break down it effectively expands in volume and acts like NERA when it breaks.
Is this the power of nonclassified western matsci?
lol even american tanks dilate
Thank you, I have taken this knowledge onboard
Ya my autism wouldn't let me rest until I understood how tank armor actually works. Most of the stuff comes from text books about ceramics and patents for armor not much online for free.
Almost as if American economy was not focused on war effort. Almost as if NATO was not participating in any war. Almost.
Exactly. The majority of the shit which the US has been sending is surplus stuff which already exists in excess (and which is already paid, costs money to keep storing, and is easy to replace). Shit like old IFVs and APCs, with various flavors of old, but quite decent rocket launchers.
The American military industrial complex hasn't even gone into gear for this war.
Yet russia fails to overcome it.
They should ideally just make AbramsX for Ukraine to give it a test run tbh senpai
Then the Germans are forced to give them KF51 Panther as well
Abrams X and Panther aren't real tanks. They're cardboard mockups the US army didn't ask for and won't buy.
Maybe the AbramsX, but the Panther is a very real tank, I think they have like two operational units just for the sake of advertisement.
Either way, no, no one is actually interested in buying either at the moment though, neither the Americans with AbramsX nor the Euros with the Panther.
Would be cool for MIC to “donate” or reduce price sell prototypes for field testing in Ukraine for clout, rnd, and other self serving goals.
I just want Abrams and Bradleys advancing and mowing down vatnik trenches and hobo camps. IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK FOR AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Is you committing suicide to much to ask for?
The Abrams monkey model must be obviously shit compared to the U.S version, since they that don't want to risk it getting captured. I would be pissed if I were Egypt, Saudi Arabian, and Iraq having bought a $8 million dollar knock off
Because that was more of a symbolic action to unlock the tank coalition and signal to Russia the West is already thinking about Ukraine's long-term security
>leftie fifth column in White House is already stalling to protect his comrades in Kreml
Abrams is just not logistically practical in this instance, the point was to unlock German Leopards.
>Abrams is just not logistically practical in this instance
Poland is buying Abrams.
The US has deployed Abrams to Europe.
Ukies already operate turbine engine T-80s.
I fully understand that "not logistically practical" is 100% correct in the early days and the people saying we should have sent tanks at the start don't know what they're talking about. But what exactly is the special sauce that makes the Abrams impractical and the Leopard 2 feasible?
I shit you not it won't surprise me in the least if the Poles outright donate those Abrams to Ukraine just because they've had enough of Russia's bullshit.
Not likely since M1A1s are scheduled for the end of 2023 and M1A2s are due by 2026 iirc.
There aren't enough Leopard 2s to make a difference. Just look at that meme tank coalition, they all chip in each with around 10 vehicles and Germany doesn't have the means of production in place to crank them out by the dozen. Only Abrahams from our respected US partners could be provided in large numbers.
>le dem commies memes
The reason it’s taking a long time is there is one factory that makes export Abrams, and right now there are a fuck ton of orders on contract already for Poland and IIRC Taiwan, which take priority over the Ukrainian orders. We could send older models right now… but congress would have to approve DU exports and write a new law about it and so on. That’s also all older models anyway, compared to brand new. Production bottlenecks are a bitch.
>leftie fifth column in White House is already stalling to protect his comrades in Kreml
Guy went to the USSR in the 70s, was on post-Berlin Wall released documents of hims saying "I'll carp about human rights violations by Russia to maintain cover.", and had his political career bankrolled by Lenin acquaintance LEO SLIZARD and Communist Party USA founder's son Armand Hammer. Either he's the greatest double agent in history, or the free world is lead by the most retarded Manchurian Candidate situation imaginable, doubly so with Kamala Dukakis
Leo Szilard is the one that told roosvelt about the atom bomb with edward teller.
How the fuck is he "lenin acquaintance" i get that the fbi and general grooves did not wanted him on the project on los alamos due to being a pacifist like Einstein, but i don't think he was a commie maybe a socialist sympathized but not an agent.
Germans got scammed again
Scholz should had made a condition where Leopards will only be delivered when Abrams actually touches ukrainian ground.
With mutts you lose
With russians you lose
Both sides are fucking garden gnomes trying to rip us off
Leos are meant for Europe's defense. The Leo supplies to Ukraine should've been planned since May.
Why do Germans refuse to understand this -->
Leos are the Euro-tank, for all intents and purposes. Ukraine? Shit, it's in Europe. Why would giving Leos be contingent on the supply of a tank where the only operator of it on the continent is a superpower that isn't even on the continent, whereas the bulk of NATO armor in actual Euro countries is the Leo?
What the fuck is with this retardation?
Something tells me you do not understand that the US has had pre-position stocks in Europe since 1991 and repair facilities for the M1/M2 in Germany since before the berlin wall fell
Germans just wanted the optics managed to not make it look like they weren't escalating.
>Leos are the Euro-tank, for all intents and purposes
>Leos are meant for Europe's defense
Fucking mutts and their retarded excuses. Tank is a tank, what the fuck are you supposed to do with a tank in USA? Defend yourself from canadians?
They also seemed to work in middle east just fine. Why is europe that troubling out of nowhere? Sounds like some shitty excuse.
>NOOOO YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DEFEND EUROPE WHILE WE POLISH OUR TANKS WHY AREN'T YOU DOING OUR JOB FOR US THIS ISN'T FAIR
Who sent tanks who hasn't yet, anon
Don't forget that Ukraine is operating various MBT models and puts immense strain in logistics. Gradually the Leo must become the Ukrainian MBT because maintenance and repair is much more convenient.
There are probably more post soviet shitboxes in Ukraine alone than all of Leo 2s under the sun. Good luck with that.
Uh, no anon. Ukraine does not have that many tanks. Thousands of Leopards were built. 10000 M1 Abrams were built alone and the US still has 6200 of them in active use and storage.
They had a lot of them since the start and got donated with a fuckton more from post Warsaw pact countries, in fact Poland just sent them 60 or so modernized T-72s. You could replace them with Abrams and Leos together, but not Leos alone. Well, maybe if you take Leo 1s into account.
I wonder where are all those T72s and the modernized T55s, because they are almost never shown in ukie or russian propaganda, and the later would love to parade their wrecks in media.
They're stationed a good distance away from the fighting and act as firemen wherever the front becomes too hot, so there's not much opportunity to capture them. Polish T-72 were used around Kherson iirc.
Just the Bradleys and Leopard 1s (if they can finally give them to Ukraine) will make a massive difference against the Russians with their superior quality and relatively easy logistics compared to the Leo 2s or Abrams.
Remember that the ukies got most of their current reconquered land doing thunder runs with BMPs, Humvees, etc. with apparently little and very concentrated tank support.
>Fucking mutts and their retarded excuses.
Whaaaaaah. America not doing enough to protect us Europeans from Europeans....again.
>Tank is a tank, what the fuck are you supposed to do with a tank in USA? Defend yourself from canadians?
What the fuck are you supposed to do with those Leos in Europe? Defend yourself from Russian aggression? Oh, wait.
Don't get pissed because the US taxpayer is done subsidizing European defense needs, Klaus.
>has bases in Europe to fight Russia
>complains about having to send materiel to people saying they'll do the fighting
>has bases in Europe to fight Russia
Ask yourself why.
>complains about having to send materiel to people saying they'll do the fighting
No one is complaining here but you, Klaus. I'm happy giving the Ukies our left-overs to kill Russians. However, just because I'm happy to see Russians getting slaughtered doesn't mean I want another 70 years of subsidizing European defense.
As an euro I have to agree with you. It's retarded that the EU isn't sending in masse all our stuff to the ukies and we are playing retarded bureaucratic games and penny pinching.
The Leos 1 & 2 and more should have been put in the pipeline once the HIMARs strikes broke the russians and it was clear that the early ukraininan success wasn't a fluke and Russia is a fraud, nevermind when they began blackmailing us.
It's time to end this war as fast as possible and to our advantage.
NTA it is absolutely shitballs crazy how most Europeans are devoid of any idea that they will have to fight if Russia has its way. I am a leaf and I'm under no illusion that our military itself is of much use, but the provision of equipment and our tax dollars for armament is something most people welcome because of a STRONG desire to not have our countrymen fight. there is a seemingly far higher awareness outside of Europe regarding the fact that Europeans will have to fight yet most continue with their heads in the sand. even after Trump's threats of a return to American isolation, which I remember caused a lot of upset because of Trump by default, they did not clue in
>It's time to end this war as fast as possible and to our advantage.
To be completely honest, given European politicians' typical fecklessness, I'm shocked at the amount of support that Europe has provided so far. That being said, Europe should be ramping up its defense production right now and for every shell, bullet, IFV, tank, etc. that rolls off the assembly line, an equivalent from the stocks should be shipped to Ukraine.
>doesn't mean I want another 70 years of subsidizing European defense
Seems like an excellent reason to go for the jugular right now.
>there is a seemingly far higher awareness outside of Europe regarding the fact that Europeans will have to fight
Which is precisely why the concept of Europe giving up its entire tank force while the US has spares is kind of a ridiculous notion.
If we send all the Leopards we have, will the "logistical issues" with Abrams disappear by striking a deal to backfill our forces with storage Abrams?
>Seems like an excellent reason to go for the jugular right now.
Agreed. But again, its not really our fight. Its a European one.
>will the "logistical issues" with Abrams disappear by striking a deal to backfill our forces with storage Abrams?
I've never bought into the "logistical issues" excuse with supplying the Abrams. If we had started 10 months ago, the logistical issues would likely have been resolved by now. That being said, Ukraine needs tanks today. The rest of Europe has time to work out any logistical issues if they need to backfill with Abrams from the US.
>its not really our fight
It kind of is since the US pledged support for Ukraine in case of invasion.
>It kind of is since the US pledged support for Ukraine in case of invasion.
That is a fair point. But why would the US have to make such a pledge for a continental European country a half a world away?
Ok so you've gotta understand this
Europe as a federation of states and the US are not alike at all, it's not comparable
The USA is a unified single Anglo nation since its inception, compared to Europe which has existed as individual and varied genetic, linguistic and cultural groups
The effect this has on both logistics and unity should be apparent by the current geopolitical climate
Oh and the USA existing for 2 centuries of basically free reign to do what they want while almost always enjoying good relations with the current global power until taking over as the global power
Whereas in Europe the time up till the birth of the USA was spent killing each other in vicious wars and then the same again for all time that has passed since then
I don't disagree. I just don't know why any of that makes European continental defense a US responsibility.
>But why would the US have to make such a pledge for a continental European country a half a world away?
In Ukraine's case? The US didn't want to risk nuclear proliferation so Ukraine had to give up the stockpile they inherited.
To the US it doesn't matter where muh nooks are. Ukraine, Iran, North Korea... they'd rather they didn't exist at all. Same goes for the biolabs. Half a world away? Doesn't matter. That shit needs to be secured, and the US spent good money ensuring they could clean the mess the Soviets left.
>What the fuck are you supposed to do with those Leos in Europe?
Ah yes, all those 50 leos
How come the US is taking so long but other western MBTs are getting there in March?
Training to operate the Abrams takes longer
Oh really? Proofs? 19K school is 13 weeks here.
22 weeks now
Get with the times old man
that 22 weeks includes 9 weeks for basic training retard
Because the Army wants to train them not only on how to operate it on a crew level, but also how to maneuver it and get the most bang for your buck with it on an individual, platoon, company, and battalion level as well. Plus live fires, force on force, etc etc...
And the Ukrainians could definitely use it, they do infantry stuff very well but suffer with actually maneuvering and performing with armor
Source: I've seen it, they need that extra time. It's not because of some imaginary 5th column like some retards think. They're getting more training than any other NATO ally could ever give them and then some.
Don't care, didn't do the 22 week cycle anyways now get back in the motor pool and walk track spc
There's no way that accounts for the difference
It's incredible what Ukrainians achieve with the meager support from the laziest allies ever.
it's not laziness it's entryism/corruption. What's weird is seeing the glowmorons defend it because they need 100% positive PR all the time when it harms their actual objectives. There's no 4D chess here just institutional malaise if
not outright malfeasance.
I don't think it's Russia doing it though, it's the Chinks exerting soft power (aka bribery)
note how the "laziness" in western nations sending tanks to ukraine matches the similar apathy displayed by Taiwan. They should know by now a total invasion will occur yet because of the 5th columns in their nation they are half assing any defensive measures
Unrelated but this is why I think Japan may surprise alot of people over the coming decades because of their high trust society equating to military readiness if the chinks chimp out
new builds take time and no-one wants to give up their order for Ukraine. hate to see it.
Isn't this to do with the classified armor being removed? Why bother if the brits aren't?
Giving Ukrainians Leo2s, even mid-range one’s forget the modern ones — is like giving exotic sports cars to them. They’ll look nice in photos but the Ukes simply can’t operate or service them. These MBTs are designed to work within a set of advanced combat doctrines with the required training and crew talent level. Ukraine has NONE of what it takes to be successful with these vehicles. Can Ukraine in the middle of a war be trained in all the right doctrine and build up the required maintenance facilities? I would argue that no, they can’t. That needed to be done years prior. If all they get is basic training, they’ll just do what they do with their Soviet shitboxes — occasionally poke their nose out across flat terrain and get smashed by some AT weapon resulting in them hanging back and doing nothing,
>These MBTs are designed to work within a set of advanced combat doctrines with the required training and crew talent level
I like how there so many morons thinking that different tanks have different "stat modifications" as if Leo 2 has "+200% damage per crew level experience". And it not just being big gun on armored car with good optics and thermals, performing the same role as T-64, T-72, T-80 and T-90
>you can just give them tanks! you don't need to build up a logistics base so they can maintain them!
i'm waiting for my apology, fags
Is there even a Ukraine left by that point?
Zelensky wouldn't ask for those tanks if he didn't need them.
And the US wouldn't produce new ones if they thought Zelensky could handle it himself.
This is really low effort, really sad. You can do better, anon. Apply yourself.
The peak in US production during WWII for most categories was 1944 and in some cases 1945. Asking for more when you’re overmatching is just what industrialized war looks like.
They just confirmed that they'll send monke models to Ukraine
Reminder that Bradley’s killed more Soviet MBTs in the Gulf War and they are arriving right now, not just later in the year