>implying that any Estern Bloc nations were independent
The Magyars have a pretty good industry, but really they've been that good since the Dual Monarchy. They alo really did latch on to the Hi-Power and Jericho.
They weren't politically independent but they were economically autonomous. You can't really compare the integration between union proper and warsaw pact vassals, it's completely different. While people of union proper considered themselves to live in a pretty much one country, any country of warsaw pact was considered as a foreign and any product manufactured there was foreign as well.
But he is right, though. Take Poland as an example. While in pretty much every other commiebloc country forced collectivization was a must, Poles abandoned it pretty early on and never came back to it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I kinda wonder if the Soviets knew that collectivization was shit, couldn't admit it, but allowed the Kurwas to do this so that they could milk more out of them.
Communism is best political system ever. The only issue is that it cannot be implemented without a benevolent god-AI.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Collectivism is the source of all the issues with communism. The extent to which other collectivist ideologies perform better matches the level of individual enterprise—the opposite of collectivism—they allow.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Nah.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Collectivism isn’t shit
That's only true in practice when you are talking about very small groups of people who collectivize under not more that 1 layer of authority where all individuals have agree to be part of the collective. Otherwise, frick off and no step on snek.
Tbh we were mostly economically autonomous, we had our own 5 year planning and shit, which was entirely separate from the Soviet economy.
It just came with caveats, like when we had to exchange high value goods with other COMECON countries and got useless shit like Cuban oranges in return, or when we gave away tens of billions' worth of Uranium to USSR pretty much for free, and had to accept their decades old surplus trash in lieu of "debt repayment".
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you post a little bit more (and there is more to post), you will come to conclusion that it was not economical autonomy, not in the slightest.
Poland wasn't part of the USSR. Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Ukraine were.
Yes, moron, because only former components of the USSR are former USSR states. If OP wanted to ask about the Warsaw Pact as a whole he would have said Warsaw Pact. Almost every Warsaw Pact country had its own domestic armed forces military industry with some unique equipment, so that's a much broader question than just ex-USSR.
Moreover, these countries had their own governments with varying degrees of autonomy. Romania for example often deviated from the USSR's line, and Hungary and Czechoslovakia both required military interventions.
That depends a lot on your definition of independent
2 years ago
Heroes Orchestra
Poland had a garrison of about 300,000 Soviet soldiers within our territory in 1989, so the very end of the Warsaw Pact.
Would you consider that "independence"?
2 years ago
Anonymous
This. The other anon should describe to us here how the Warsaw pact states were in any way, shape or form considered "independent"
Russia obviously. Other ones are either to small or too shitskin to compete. Ukraine has some potential but both its MIC and army were completely destroyed by the 2014, and from there it didn't had much oportunity to catch up.
>that pic
Belarus actually had a nice white-red-white flag until luca the moronic reversed it back.
it's about how after USSR fell they all got new flags which were radically different, bar Belarus who just removed the hammer and sickle symbol (technically not but they did after Luka wanted to suck up to Russia).
t. haitian
Flags should be simple enough for a kid to draw in school, and don't even dare try to use the "sovl" argument to defend stupid-looking flags with ugly symbols plastered on them.
NM here. What's wrong with our flag? It's better than a shitton of 'dudes in costumes staring at mountains' like half the other states. And who the frick thinks THAT would be a superior option? That's not even our state motto.
"The defense industry consists predominantly of small and medium-sized privately owned companies, with total turnover within the defense, aerospace, and security sectors of 1.84 billion euros in 2020. With a few exceptions such as Patria, producer of the Armored Modular Vehicle and NEMO mortar system, there are no large industrial players."
But yeah nothing massive, but we did have some nice ideas.
Outside of westernphiles, Belarus is even more Sovietboo than Russia and that has nothing to do with Russia enforcing it or anything. I bet Belarusians cringe at Putin's neo-tsarist stuff.
>former USSR states, who has the best domestic arms industry
Ukraine and it's not even close. one of the lulziest parts of this whole debacle is that Ukraine was like >60% of Russia's combat vehicle supply chain, so most of that shit gypsy farmers keep tractoring away is just Ukrainians taking back the shit they built.
>one of the lulziest parts of this whole debacle is that Ukraine was like >60% of Russia's combat vehicle supply chain, so most of that shit gypsy farmers keep tractoring away is just Ukrainians taking back the shit they built.
It is not just combat vehicles, but also helicopters, bigger airplanes and only (!) biggest class dry dock Soviet Union had. Russians tried to cope with it after dissolution by renting another dry dock from Scandis, but in a truly Russian manner, their fricking dry dock had an accident with fire (a dock, on fire, yes) and when they wanted to use pumps they found out all the fuel was already stolen, so it just burned down. Ever since, Russia has no big dry dock, hence the absolute state of their larger navy ships.
What is interesting is that most of these are on the border with Russia. If you look at initial invasion strike map, you can clearly see that they basically followed towards these goals too. That + ukrainian natural resources, that is a sole reason for this shitty war, no matter how hard vatBlack folk cope.
Not sure about the Baltic states, but when it comes to the others Ukraine has the best weapons industry followed by Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Not sure what order I would rank the last three.
The Baltic crap is more specialized, Estonians have their UGV's, Lithuania's very big in the laser game. Latvia's somewhat lacking, having their drone company bought by burgers, but at least they had a part in making the new Patria APC
The knight is too nationalistic for NATO/EU. They will have to remove it, or replace it with a BIPOC woman or man. All symbols and imagery of the a chivalrous, glorious, and prideful white past need to be removed, it’s all a lie. Belarus also needs more diversity.
>So, out of all the former USSR states, who has the best domestic arms industry?
Ukraine before Russian invasion by far. Ukraine was one of a few countries in Europe being able to produce their own missiles. Poland for example isn't able.
We make our (mobile) artillery, grenades, launchers, drones, trucks, SOVs, some of the armored vehicles are made in cooperation with French and few other things.
We make tank modernization packages, artillery, subsonic jets, used to make RPGs, even had a few AFV prototypes, but those were cancelled due to the USSR forcing their shit onto us.
Kazakhstan and ukraine had all the nsv heavy machinegun facilities. thats why the russians had to build the kord.
in mariupol all the the russian tank turrets were cast. thats why the t-90 has a relded turret.
ukraine had a large part of icbm manufacturing if i remember correctly. ukraine also had antonov and the kharkov tank factory.
complete my list /k/
Czechs.
Czechoslovakia wasn’t part of the USSR, you dub Black person
>implying that any Estern Bloc nations were independent
The Magyars have a pretty good industry, but really they've been that good since the Dual Monarchy. They alo really did latch on to the Hi-Power and Jericho.
They weren't politically independent but they were economically autonomous. You can't really compare the integration between union proper and warsaw pact vassals, it's completely different. While people of union proper considered themselves to live in a pretty much one country, any country of warsaw pact was considered as a foreign and any product manufactured there was foreign as well.
Oh please, the Soviet economy from '46 onwards was propped up by plundering Eastern Europe.
But he is right, though. Take Poland as an example. While in pretty much every other commiebloc country forced collectivization was a must, Poles abandoned it pretty early on and never came back to it.
I kinda wonder if the Soviets knew that collectivization was shit, couldn't admit it, but allowed the Kurwas to do this so that they could milk more out of them.
Collectivism isn’t shit, it’s communism that’s shit.
Communism is best political system ever. The only issue is that it cannot be implemented without a benevolent god-AI.
Collectivism is the source of all the issues with communism. The extent to which other collectivist ideologies perform better matches the level of individual enterprise—the opposite of collectivism—they allow.
Nah.
>Collectivism isn’t shit
That's only true in practice when you are talking about very small groups of people who collectivize under not more that 1 layer of authority where all individuals have agree to be part of the collective. Otherwise, frick off and no step on snek.
>They weren't politically independent but they were economically autonomous
lol
lmao
t. Czech boomer
Tbh we were mostly economically autonomous, we had our own 5 year planning and shit, which was entirely separate from the Soviet economy.
It just came with caveats, like when we had to exchange high value goods with other COMECON countries and got useless shit like Cuban oranges in return, or when we gave away tens of billions' worth of Uranium to USSR pretty much for free, and had to accept their decades old surplus trash in lieu of "debt repayment".
If you post a little bit more (and there is more to post), you will come to conclusion that it was not economical autonomy, not in the slightest.
This
The economic relationship was basically the old joke
>Sure the Soviet Union might take our meat products but in return the they take our coal
ok then, Germany. Eastern Germany was directly controlled by the Soviet union for a brief period after all.
>USSR states
>Czechs
>ok then, Germany
>Poland
What is it about burgers and not even being able to count to 15
I take issue w
Russia, obviously
Ukraine has the best missiles. Poland has the best upgrade kits for slavshit AFVs.
Poland wasn't part of the USSR. Moldova, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Ukraine were.
Are we not counting enslaved thralls in the greater bloc? Soviet republics only?
Yes, moron, because only former components of the USSR are former USSR states. If OP wanted to ask about the Warsaw Pact as a whole he would have said Warsaw Pact. Almost every Warsaw Pact country had its own domestic armed forces military industry with some unique equipment, so that's a much broader question than just ex-USSR.
Moreover, these countries had their own governments with varying degrees of autonomy. Romania for example often deviated from the USSR's line, and Hungary and Czechoslovakia both required military interventions.
I figured it worth clarifying because Warsaw Pact nations were not actually independent.
>were not actually independent.
That depends a lot on your definition of independent
Poland had a garrison of about 300,000 Soviet soldiers within our territory in 1989, so the very end of the Warsaw Pact.
Would you consider that "independence"?
This. The other anon should describe to us here how the Warsaw pact states were in any way, shape or form considered "independent"
Russia obviously. Other ones are either to small or too shitskin to compete. Ukraine has some potential but both its MIC and army were completely destroyed by the 2014, and from there it didn't had much oportunity to catch up.
>that pic
Belarus actually had a nice white-red-white flag until luca the moronic reversed it back.
It's funny how, with enough time, Rusian and Belorussian leaders will expose themselves as dyed-in-the-wool Soviets.
I want to frick kazakstan
Boys are fans of East Asian waifus. Men appreciate Central Asian steppefus.
This
Hapas/central asians are superior and more soulful
IME Kazakh women are all insane
Check out @aya_shalkar on Instagram my brother, irl version
I already know since years
Im an experienced connoiseur in central asian girls
There is anelia moor who is nice too
My homies. Central is based.
Czechs
Belarus a cute!
I don't get it but I want to save Ms. Belarus
it's about how after USSR fell they all got new flags which were radically different, bar Belarus who just removed the hammer and sickle symbol (technically not but they did after Luka wanted to suck up to Russia).
Shitty "colour represents" flags are cancer.
Is there any flag that isn't a color represents flag?
Most classical Monarchies' flags. They use *actual symbols* instead of DIS COLOR REPRESENTS BLOOD & BRAVERY etc.
haha look at the silly dragon playing with his ball, I hope nobody gives the silly dragon any opium
Based Bhutan still has a dragon on their flag.
So does Wales.
The what? Whales don't have a country
So has Wales.
t. haitian
Flags should be simple enough for a kid to draw in school, and don't even dare try to use the "sovl" argument to defend stupid-looking flags with ugly symbols plastered on them.
NM here. What's wrong with our flag? It's better than a shitton of 'dudes in costumes staring at mountains' like half the other states. And who the frick thinks THAT would be a superior option? That's not even our state motto.
>the sunshine state
>47
>out of date US flag
>a fricking seal
This thing was literally made to piss people off
Finland
Just no.
Finland isn't former USSR. Formerly part of the Russian Empire, yes
What millitary industry Finland even has? Seems like it hardly has any.
The best
That's just some ammo
Let me guess. You need more?
Patria also owns one half of Nammo, which manufactures pretty much everything
"The defense industry consists predominantly of small and medium-sized privately owned companies, with total turnover within the defense, aerospace, and security sectors of 1.84 billion euros in 2020. With a few exceptions such as Patria, producer of the Armored Modular Vehicle and NEMO mortar system, there are no large industrial players."
But yeah nothing massive, but we did have some nice ideas.
Is this supposed to make me feel bad for Belarus?
Because it is.
Belarus is an abused woman with some undetermined mental issue; undetermined because Russia has chained her up in their basement.
Outside of westernphiles, Belarus is even more Sovietboo than Russia and that has nothing to do with Russia enforcing it or anything. I bet Belarusians cringe at Putin's neo-tsarist stuff.
Belarus is a battered house wife that has gone Stockholm and is too afraid to leave her abuser because it's all she knows.
LMAO if anything Belarus is a cunning manipulator who gets from Russia and the EU whatever they want.
only thing we produced was meat products for moskva because russians are too shit at it themselves
>former USSR states, who has the best domestic arms industry
Ukraine and it's not even close. one of the lulziest parts of this whole debacle is that Ukraine was like >60% of Russia's combat vehicle supply chain, so most of that shit gypsy farmers keep tractoring away is just Ukrainians taking back the shit they built.
This is true for the big tickets items (ICBMs, tanks, naval vessels) and small complicated stuff like optics.
Actual the actual small-arms manufacturing centers were in Russia.
Belarus did anything involving electronics.
>one of the lulziest parts of this whole debacle is that Ukraine was like >60% of Russia's combat vehicle supply chain, so most of that shit gypsy farmers keep tractoring away is just Ukrainians taking back the shit they built.
It is not just combat vehicles, but also helicopters, bigger airplanes and only (!) biggest class dry dock Soviet Union had. Russians tried to cope with it after dissolution by renting another dry dock from Scandis, but in a truly Russian manner, their fricking dry dock had an accident with fire (a dock, on fire, yes) and when they wanted to use pumps they found out all the fuel was already stolen, so it just burned down. Ever since, Russia has no big dry dock, hence the absolute state of their larger navy ships.
What is interesting is that most of these are on the border with Russia. If you look at initial invasion strike map, you can clearly see that they basically followed towards these goals too. That + ukrainian natural resources, that is a sole reason for this shitty war, no matter how hard vatBlack folk cope.
Not sure about the Baltic states, but when it comes to the others Ukraine has the best weapons industry followed by Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Not sure what order I would rank the last three.
The Baltic crap is more specialized, Estonians have their UGV's, Lithuania's very big in the laser game. Latvia's somewhat lacking, having their drone company bought by burgers, but at least they had a part in making the new Patria APC
>Lithuania's very big in the laser game.
Not to do with thw military though. We have some EW anti drone devices we sent to Ukraine
REAL Belarus flag
This.
cute
They deserve 50 more years of dictatorship until they can get a better looking flag. Europe doesn't need another memebar.
>he doesn't know about the knight with a mustache
The knight is too nationalistic for NATO/EU. They will have to remove it, or replace it with a BIPOC woman or man. All symbols and imagery of the a chivalrous, glorious, and prideful white past need to be removed, it’s all a lie. Belarus also needs more diversity.
Jesus take your meds.
that's lithuanian
na keep the cool embroidery
turkmenistan honesty has a very cool concept the carpet embroidery.
>tfw no Turkmen gf
>So, out of all the former USSR states, who has the best domestic arms industry?
Ukraine before Russian invasion by far. Ukraine was one of a few countries in Europe being able to produce their own missiles. Poland for example isn't able.
Czechoslovak.
Czechoslovakia only has some small arms. Ukraine is much better overall.
Even Bulgaria makes bigger guns and ammo, I doubt Czechia doesn't have anything, especially given their history.
We make our (mobile) artillery, grenades, launchers, drones, trucks, SOVs, some of the armored vehicles are made in cooperation with French and few other things.
We make tank modernization packages, artillery, subsonic jets, used to make RPGs, even had a few AFV prototypes, but those were cancelled due to the USSR forcing their shit onto us.
Guess who took care of that huh?
Czechoslovakia. If only Soviet republics count, then Ukraine.
Kazakhstan and ukraine had all the nsv heavy machinegun facilities. thats why the russians had to build the kord.
in mariupol all the the russian tank turrets were cast. thats why the t-90 has a relded turret.
ukraine had a large part of icbm manufacturing if i remember correctly. ukraine also had antonov and the kharkov tank factory.
complete my list /k/
If we're talking about the actual USSR republics they are all pretty shit, but probably still Russia just because of quantity?
>no Dagestan flag
feels bad bros
>Lets all make new flags to show Russia how butthurt we will be forever
>Belarus didn't need one