So...

What went so terribly wrong for Russia? Was its full-scale invasion doomed from the very beginning or maybe there was some real chance for Putin to achieve a fast and easy win as it was initially intended?
What would you do a week or two before the invasion if you were, say, Gerasimov?

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  1. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    They expected little resistance. Chalk it up to either believing their own BS or just underestimating Ukrainian capabilities.
    Obviously the best course of action would have been to postpone and draw up a real, actual plan that doesn't rely on Zelenskyy fleeing and Kiev capitulating in 3 days. Plus, make it far more difficult for NATO to resupply Ukraine on day one.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >They expected little resistance.
      In a country of 40 (ok, 35) million people? Really? Did 2 Chechen wars teach them nothing?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        They sniffed their own farts until they got high on them. My take is that Pootpoot really believes the memes about Ukrainians being Russians in denial who just got turned against Russia somehow. He really can't imagine that they're their own people who don't want to be Russian. It's consistent with 2014, where he probably thought he'd get more support than the useless donbabweans.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Pootpoot
          Fricking really?

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        That's what I was thinking from the very beginning. They needed a decade to pacify a nation of barely 1 million and here they want to take over 40 million in 3 days?

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Ukrainians speak the same language and have the same religion as Russians, far easier to absorb than a Caucasian speaking Muslim.
          At least that's how it was before 2014.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Ukrainians speak the same language
            Not really, many Ukrainians who used the Russian language as their main one stopped doing that after 2014. And even if they still spoke Russian, it doesn't mean that they would have liked to live under Putin.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            From the Russian perspective...
            The Ukrainian perspective is that they have their own culture, history, language and have an independent religious tradition.
            That's kind of the problem isn't it.
            It's a bit like the UK, people in London assume everyone is 'on board' because no one else is allowed to have any opinions, or at least they wernt until they foolishly let the Scots have their own parliament.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            About half of all the work by Ukrainians most famous poet Taras Shevchenko was about how subhuman the Russians were. If the Russians were deluded to think Ukrainians had any love for Russians, they were severely mistaken.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          The analysts were expecting "The 2nd strongest army in the world" to be similar to the US & coalition forces during the first gulf war.

          Because US intelligence kept telling everyone that Russia was able to do so much and that their military was closing in on ours and capability and logistics.

          Then we saw the invasion and the "analysts" were confused at how bad the Russians were doing and the people who knew that Russia was a dogshit country that cant do half the shit they claim, laughed our asses off at them dying and VDVing into the sea.

          its almost like our "Analysts" were just mouth pieces for more government contracts.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >its almost like our "Analysts" were just mouth pieces for more government contracts.
            Most likely they just prepared for the worst case scenario and got the best case scenario

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Russian manufacturing is public knowledge
              >Seeing what they can produce is public knowledge

              See pic related.

              US gave that to the Soviets during ww2, Soviets use it for tank manufacturing, Russia still uses it for tank manufacturing. (its a 9 inch up setter so they use it for drive shafts and other 9 inch diameter items)

              Russia couldn't repair it and had to send it to the US to get repaired and shipped back to Russia.

              "Analysts" were saying that Russia was a modern country that will produce modern military goods in large number.

              They can't repair a piece of machinery like that nor could they make more of them. Everything they have now they source for outside their country and are 100% reliant on the west for "Modern" military goods.

              Everything they currently produce is basically on left over equipment from the Soviet union if they haven't bought more "Modern" stuff as they cant build their own.

              The Analysts were 100% just trying to justify large government contracts the same way the CIA did during the cold war

              As going by the CIA

              "The Average Soviet citizen has access to more food, better education, Free health care and they live longer and happier lives then those in the US" ~1960s CIA

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >had to send it to the US to get repaired and shipped back to Russia.
                It's even worse than that: it was never sent back to Russia. Russia couldn't repair it and it got bought by a US company and rebuilt in the US. Now it's sitting in an machinery dealer's warehouse in Ohio and you can buy it if you have several million $$$.
                Here's the story of the move back to the US for repair:
                https://www.forgemag.com/articles/84490-ohio-built-upsetter-from-soviet-union-returns-for-rebuilding

                And here it is for sale:
                https://www.trueforge.com/View/9-National-High-Duty-Heavy-Upset-Forging-Machine-Upsetter-has-never-been-cracked-Re24440

                Their domestic industry is fricked.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        They sniffed their own farts until they got high on them. My take is that Pootpoot really believes the memes about Ukrainians being Russians in denial who just got turned against Russia somehow. He really can't imagine that they're their own people who don't want to be Russian. It's consistent with 2014, where he probably thought he'd get more support than the useless donbabweans.

        That's what I was thinking from the very beginning. They needed a decade to pacify a nation of barely 1 million and here they want to take over 40 million in 3 days?

        The explanation I have heard that makes the most sense to me is that the FSB guys sent to Ukraine were giving Kremlin bad intel and telling them what they wanted to hear so they'd keep sending them funding for them to embezzle, because those FSB guys never expected their work to actually be needed for anything, because like everyone else they never expected Putin to actually wanna invade Ukraine in earnest. Same way the guys keeping watch over munitions, gear and hardware also just fixed the numbers decades, because nobody ever expected any of it to actually be needed. So as with everything else about the invasion being a shit show, it's the corruption.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, the FSB glowies were expected to set up a defector network and this did in fact work out fine in Kherson, but most other regions were neglected in favor of the glowies pocketing the corruption money for their own luxury vacations.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah I've been saying for a decade on here that Russia was dysfunctional on all possible levels and the military and FSB would be no different. But a lot of things had to go wrong at the same time for them to frick up this badly.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Medvechuk bullshitted Putin into believing that Ukraine was full of pro-Russian sympathisers

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        For the one gorilionth time review their Czech/Hungarian put downs during the Cold War and the 08 Georgian put down. They were not prepared for a foe that was alerted and ready to fight. The Ukie TDF also did a great job at delaying the mechanized support reinforcing Holostomel. This has literally been know for a year plus at this point.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Its the only explanation we can get for that fricking circus near Kiev, the expectation of an utter lack of resistence is the only way one could explain Hostomel

  2. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Fox News
    >We have the entire gameplan for Russia invading Ukraine
    >Also fox news
    >Why is Biden warmongering by saying Russia will invade Ukraine?

  3. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >rampant corruption in the army and MIC
    >SOMEHOW higher-ups felt for their propaganda made for plebs
    >intelligence provided everyone involved with wishful thinking documents because they thought it was for some kind of meme report
    >army sitting in the field camps from November 2021 and getting told about the invasion basically the night before
    >even more corruption

  4. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why didn't the Russians move more assets in preparation of the Odessa landings? Large parts of the Black Sea fleet got stuck in the Mediterranean, unable to come back after Turkey closed the straits. And the garrison in Transnistria is a joke.

  5. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    If you ask me, the Russoids should have just forgot about taking the whole country and focused on a blitzkrieg in Donbabwe and Luganda. They wouldnt have been able to take Kyiv with their numbers but they probably could have taken the eastern parts of Ukraine, especially since there are more ethnic russBlack folk in the east, and then presented Zelensky and the West with a fait accompli.

  6. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    They really genuinely thought the Ukrainians would lay down their weapons and welcome them as liberators. That wasn't propaganda, or a joke.

    Hence the unsupported aerial operations on day 1, they genuinely didn't think they'd come under fire.

    Russians are subhuman, they truly couldn't comprehend the idea that Ukrainians are not. Which tells you they've never met a single Ukrainian.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      If you ask me, the Russoids should have just forgot about taking the whole country and focused on a blitzkrieg in Donbabwe and Luganda. They wouldnt have been able to take Kyiv with their numbers but they probably could have taken the eastern parts of Ukraine, especially since there are more ethnic russBlack folk in the east, and then presented Zelensky and the West with a fait accompli.

      People forget it in the fog of their incompetence but Russia very nearly did just seize Kyiv on day one, if the defenders had been a bit more demoralized or disarrayed we'd never have this year of attrition revealing how fricked Russia is, Ukraine would have been decapitated and capitulated quickly, and everyone would still be pretending; in fact pretending even harder; that Russia is a rising invincible juggernaut

      The course of history was decided by handfuls of men over square meters over hours, and I guess in some way it always is, but it's rare when it can be so distinctly highlighted

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        The thing is, Ukraine *still* would have won if that happened, it just would have looked like a Mujahideen-style victory rather than the embarrassment we've seen.

        Ukraine knows what Russian rule means. They'll never submit to it again. They'd fight to the last man, woman, and child.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yes but it wouldn't have had near the impact. After all, no conventional military has won a guerilla war since the Brits in Malaya and that took a decade itself. Ukraine fending off Russia conventional v conventional actually means something.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        that's revisionist. the russian forward positions on day 1 were untenable in the face of virtually any resistance, and they hadn't planned for any. the real point of tension was as the russian convoy began to set up in arty range, which was what, two weeks in? had the force been better organized that could have been decisive but it still would have required completing the encirclement and months of shelling

  7. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    I read in an article/thread that, pre-2014 Russia had more glowies assigned to some small Eastern European state than Ukraine (can't remember which, probably Estonia). Apparently they didn't even bother to do summaries of Ukrainian news items, update maps, do background on new political figures, etc. This info all came from an interview with a retired Russian glowie who was complaining about the failed 2014 invasion and mistakes that were made in planning and execution. The gist of the article/thread was that Russian leadership was so convinced that Ukraine was part of Russia and Ukrainians were just Russians in funny haircuts that they didn't need to spend money/energy there since nothing Ukraine didn't matter and it would eventually return to Russia on its own or with minimal effort. Basically, the Russian government was so blinded by their prejudices against Ukrainians that they had an internal belief that Ukraine lacked agency and cultural cohesion/sovereignty and could therefore never do anything on its own, never be a real country, etc...

    I didn't believe it until I read about Lavrov constantly trying to negotiate with Western countries about the "Ukraine issue" since the war started in earnest. He even did it today. That is when I understood. Russians STILL don't understand Ukraine is a country. It would be like if the UK just refused to acknowledge the Revolutionary War and just spent the next 100 years going to war and saying the American Colonies were just renegade British citizens torn away by France and Spain's shenanigans.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >It would be like if the UK just refused to acknowledge the Revolutionary War and just spent the next 100 years going to war and saying the American Colonies were just renegade British citizens torn away by France and Spain's shenanigans.

      So the war of 1812

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        That started when the US invaded Canada. If you want, you can say it started when the US just refused to recognize that not all North Americans wanted to be part of the USA and were subsequently embarrassed despite huge advantages.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          No.

          It started with the impressment of US sailors into the royal navy.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            American politicians post war admitted it had been used as an excuse. The goal was always territorial expansion.

  8. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Don't invade. NATO was in decline and this was a golden opportunity to make US look like lunatics. Imagine if after them shouting from the rooftops that Russia is going to invade, they wouldn't have done it.

  9. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    too few troops with too many objectives in the initial assault
    they didnt realize their air attacks wouldn't complete neuter Ukrainian command and control

  10. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Something that hasn't been brought up in this thread that's critical to understanding Putin's calculus: Afghanistan. When Putin saw how fast the ANA collapsed, combined with his belief that there was a bipartisan war-weariness in the United States, was likely what convinced him that he could win in Ukraine in a matter of days. Basically, monkey-see, monkey-do.

  11. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    58088862
    Why do you think spamming this mans honorable death shows us anything other than you being a craven moron

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Unironically, after the end of this war, every country should start issuing a bounty on pro-russian fifth columnists. I would certainly contribute to it.

  12. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    do ruskies think this makes ukraine look bad? or like these people can be conquered?

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