SMGs should make a comeback

The ideal weapon for the conscript is the one that is cheap to make and easy to learn. This is basically the SMG. SMGs can be made much cheaper than assault rifles and are just as easy to use. As a bonus, they are lighter, their ammo is lighter per round, and can be more compact, too. Plus, they’re more controllable in full auto. All good things for extended firefights and for CQB.
Drawbacks? Not really.
>effective range
Don’t pretend that your conscripts with minimal training and no scope are gonna hit shit beyond 100 meters
>body armor
If they have no body armor, there’s no problem.
If they have low-tier body armor, you can probably use some AP round without compromising the advantages of the SMG too much.
Or, you can just accept that you’ll need a hit to the limbs or the head, which will reduce effectiveness somewhat but not by too much

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  1. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    conscripts are useless even if you gave them all XM25s and NODs

  2. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    We aren't broke, we don't use conscripts and if we did, we have so many M4s in inventory that some pipegun SMG is unneeded. I'm not just saying that as an American, that's true of any first world country. Massed low-quality infantry with bottom-dollar guns is a concept that died in WW2. Even the russians are only considering such things because they're totally depleted, rather than as an informed strategic choice like you're advocating.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      This isn’t about the USA in particular
      Think of the countless shitholes in Africa and South America that would need cheap bodies for their wars
      I’f mention Russia and Ukraine too but they have a stockpile of AKs

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Then go sell them on your brilliant idea. You're not interested in feedback, you're just autspergic. If you are right you'll make money so go succeed selling the concept by selling some hardware.

  3. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    maybe for some diy gun makers if they can't into high pressure and gas port yet, but commercially smg has not been cheap to buy than an assault rifle.

  4. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    In what wars have you used an SMG and in what roles?

  5. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    There'd be many if the NFA were overturned
    I don't see any use for them beyond compact personal defense weapons

  6. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The ideal weapon for the conscript is the one that is cheap to make and easy to learn. This is basically the SMG.
    your thread was over after you opened with this moronic statement. There is no reason why an SMG is inherently easier to learn or even much cheaper to make. You can serviceable AR or AKs for a price any country can afford especially when you are ordering them in large quantities like a military would.

    Really bad thread OP.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >There is no reason why an SMG is inherently easier to learn or even much cheaper to make.
      an SMG uses a lot less material than an assault rifle and can use simpler designs (e.g. blowback).

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >An smg can be slightly cheaper than a rifle
        No military cares. There's a little thing invented in 1913 called mass production. Any military can afford to equip their guys with rifles. Yes, even African shithole despot militaries have been equipping their child soldiers with AKs. No one gives a frick about the price.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >slightly cheaper
          Several times cheaper, by my math. Big difference when you’re a shithole that needs to turn civilians into “soldiers” ASAP

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            You just don't get it. No one cares about this. The poorest militaries in the world can outfit their armies with AKs. AKs which will be far superior to even the gucciest SMGs, and we aren't talking gucci if this hypothetical military is so desperate they can't afford rifles.

            No one will ever adopt your idea, it's really dumb.

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              >AK
              >superior
              >can't hit broadside of the barn

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Anon, when someone points out you are wrong it's best to just be humble and accept defeat graciously. Acting like a moronic child isn't a good look.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                it’s ok bud. we know you’ve never fired a gun

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                > AKs which will be far superior to even the gucciest SMGs
                I’m pretty sure that remembering to cut a notch in the sights and not squeezing the barrel in a vice to make it pass the “bullet drop test” will make the smg come out ahead

                please explain why an AK is so much more inacurate than an smg

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                hes weaker than a 10 year old starving african and cant handle the recoil

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Any gun with a semblance of QC will be more accurate than one of the atrocities that passes for an AK in the third world. I think the Khyber Pass is one of the worst offenders in this regard. As I mentioned:
                > third world gunsmiths don’t know what the sight is for so they make sights that are useless (e.g. without a notch)
                > guns are tested by dropping a bullet through to see if the barrel is worn. Sellers in the know will cheat this test by squeezing the barrel with a vice. Naturally, this degrades the barrel from “worn out” to “absolutely dogshit”
                These are the two things I can recall from the top of my head

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              > AKs which will be far superior to even the gucciest SMGs
              I’m pretty sure that remembering to cut a notch in the sights and not squeezing the barrel in a vice to make it pass the “bullet drop test” will make the smg come out ahead

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Name the militaries fielding SMGs as the standard issue infantry weapon. After you're done, name the militaries fielding an AK variant as a standard issue infantry weapon.

                /thread

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >militaries are dumb and bought into comfy muh accurate rifle fire concept
                Now look at videos of mobiks cqb in Ukraine ans see how this peacetime concept is shattered to pieces when hit stone wall of the reality

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Your idea is bad man, sorry. We all have bad ideas from time to time. Try to learn from this mistake.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >can't disprove the point
                >just crying no you are wrong wrong wrong
                >democratsealofaproval.jpg

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                hi newbie!

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            Your proposed design would be a new firearm with no existing supply chain. AR-15s are ubiquitous. Parts will be inherently cheaper because of economies of scale.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            Your math stinks.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Surplus doesn't exist
            >Doesn't get free rifles from one colonisator or another.

            No, anon, assault rifles are here and can be had quite cheap. No need for smg, besides niche roles.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          shitty open bolt blowback smgs often actually are easier and cheaper to produce than gas operated just because there is less machining required. even in mass production when there is less machining required things become cheaper. not that OP is right but if you want to make a really cheap gun, open bolt fixed firing pin straight blowback is the way to go, and that's not really feasible as a rifle.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Using less material isn't as important as using cheaper material. The biggest factor in a gun's price is cost of R&D and quality control

  7. 11 months ago
    GigaChud

    I like the idea of an SMG being used for CQB especially house break in situations, although unless you wanna shill out 10-20k for a mac or uzi thats full auto, a semi auto smg sounds gay as frick.
    >If they have no body armor you're good
    Unless its some hoodlum or crackhead breaking in expect them to wear anything from 3A and above
    >If they have low tier body armor use AP
    Not gonna punch thru shit unless its black tip and even then thats banned for pistol calibers
    >you can just accept that you’ll need a hit to the limbs or the head
    You can, but I've heard too many gaytards say that and when I take them to the range their grouping is shit (did that with 3 employees so far) at 15 meters starting, of course they sounded like noguns gays that didnt know shit either.

  8. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    SMGs are a specialist weapon. Outside of certain circumstances they're more or less inferior to rifles. You may as well suggest "I really think bolt actions should make a comeback".

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Outside of certain circumstances they're more or less inferior to rifles
      >inferior
      Wish he also tested P90 and MP7...

  9. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    For that to happen, they must be chambered in magnum handgun cartridges like .50 AE, .357, or .44.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Outside of certain circumstances they're more or less inferior to rifles
      >inferior
      Wish he also tested P90 and MP7...

  10. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >muh accurate assault raiflus!
    Everyone must watch
    The Eugene Stoner Tapes - Part 5: Future Weapons Design

  11. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    OP you dum, these things are hopeless in any real frontline combat considering body armor are pretty much the norm
    The only way i can see SMGs being useful in this day and age is in form of something like sten or luty, and only to arm resistance groups (not infantry) until they can raid an armory or some shit where the guards are relatively less hardened and finally get their hands on some proper rifles

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      AK doesn't penetrate modern body armor what are you talking about

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah nah there's plenty of videos from the current war proving otherwise

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Post em.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous
            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              >throwing a grenade at a dead body

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                he is now compost

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous
            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              #

              .

              #

              There's more but i don't have the time to dig the archives for you, go check that first channel i linked

              #
              And how do I know that? How do I know in these cases bullets penetrated rifle plates instead of going around them? I expect you provide quick and accurate answer. Otherwise you are arguing in bad faith.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                You can quite literally see in those videos that the bullets are hitting frontally, for example the one dude sitting in trench recess and the dude in the shed

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Duude, plate covers around 15% of frontal area. Bullets have 75% chance of hitting around plate abs only 15% of hitting plate.
                And you know it
                Yes, that's bad faith argument and you can't recover from it. Vatnik style of argument must be punished.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Bullet proof vests should be bigger and I'm tired of pretending weight is an issue

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Duude, plate covers around 15% of frontal area. Bullets have 75% chance of hitting around plate abs only 15% of hitting plate.
                And you know it
                Yes, that's bad faith argument and you can't recover from it. Vatnik style of argument must be punished.

                all solider are trained to shoot center mass
                vests are designed to cover center mass
                impacts of dust can be seen hitting center mass
                you are a complete moron

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            .

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            There's more but i don't have the time to dig the archives for you, go check that first channel i linked

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              I fail to see how a SMG would have been any better in this scenario.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Well they won't. I was posting these to disprove OP's "SMG would be better since AKs doesn't penetrate armor anyway" argument

                AK doesn't penetrate modern body armor what are you talking about

  12. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >The ideal weapon for the conscript is the one that is cheap to make and easy to learn. This is basically the AR-15. AR-15 clones can be made much cheaper than a bespoke SMG and are just as easy to use. As a bonus, they have a large existing aftermarket, wide parts availability, their ammo is flatter firing (good for conscripts), and can be more compact or more tacticool through Alibaba accessories. Plus, morons shouldn't have full auto. All good things for extended firefights and for actually having effect on target.
    >Drawbacks? Not really.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Plus, morons shouldn't have full auto
      >morons: sorry, still using spray and pray doesn't care what you say

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        You're the one who brought up prolonged firefights, enjoy your raw conscripts dumping their entire ammo supply into a spooky tree that made a funny noise. If you're so dirt poor that you're considering compromising on even the most basic assault rifle for your troops, you probably haven't heavily invested in logistics to keep those SMGs firing.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          Assault rifles armed mobiks would be magdumping the same . But the difference is when they got in situation when they actually can see and hit close enemy, SMG better suited for hipfire auto spray would srvr mobik better. Idea that mobiks would be carefully taking aim with sights and applying marksmanship fundamentals is absolute pipedream

  13. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >lighter
    With any mechanism more complex then a direct blowback yes they are lighter. But complex mechanism raises the cost. Fully loaded uzi (direct blowjob) is about 9 lbs(aboot 4 kg) . Although it is short and made of steel so aluminum and polimer can reduce weight
    M4 is about 8 lbs (sling+mag, no optics and shit).
    Mp5 is about 5.6 to 6 lbs , steel + roller delayed blowback but it is an expensive smg.
    Dont get me wrong in house to house fighting an smg is absolutely a viable weapon if for no other reason then you can carry a shit ton of pistol caliber mags and they can potentially have high cyclic rates. But for a standing army a rifle caliber makes more sense due to longer range , barrier penetration , soft armor enetration , more POWA. Because you wont always do house to house.

  14. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Bro
    Its not 1938
    These SMGs, were a response to lack of resources to produce proper rifles.
    We have gone way to far in manufacturing technology to rely on this trash.
    AKs, ARs ect. make all of these obsolete

  15. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Cheap direct blowback SMG’s actually have more recoil than an ar15. Also 5.56 actually weighs the same or possibly less than 9mm. If psa is able to sell ar15’s for under $500, then I doubt smg’s are gonna be that much cheaper to produce if it all.

  16. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    You can make roller delayed intermediate cartridge Ass ault Rifle (TM) with litle added complexity over traditional SMG.

  17. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >conscripts with minimal training
    at that point you've already failed

  18. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >their ammo is lighter per round
    incorrect, for example 9mm rounds are generally heavier than 5.56

  19. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    nah

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      #Kony2012

  20. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >country too poor to make cheap rifles
    >but not too poor to make AP pistol ammo
    >when any rifle penetrates soft armor
    Try again OP

  21. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'm a fan of the Uru myself.

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