Why was is it popular in antiquity but not then? How does it compare to a bow?
Can it really kill an 8 feet tall warrior in bronze helmet and armor?
Sling
Why was is it popular in antiquity but not then? How does it compare to a bow?
Can it really kill an 8 feet tall warrior in bronze helmet and armor?
>but not then?
THEN WHEN?
>How does it compare to a bow?
stop
>Can it really kill an 8 feet tall warrior in bronze helmet and armor?
it's a weapon that can inflict great damage through armor with the right hit so sure. being tall doesn't give you a massive physiological resistance to blunt force trauma
>THEN WHEN?
Middle ages
just a guess, but probably because joe off the street could plink for a week and be a passable shot with a crossbow. good slingers were lifelong experts, and for all that there's an order of magnitude gap in achievable precision
fair point, but joe off the street doesn't have access to a crossbow, or bolts, or much in the way of dedicated training time
Joe of the street DOES have the material to make his own sling. He can pick up rocks OFF THE GROUND. And he would regularly use said sling to hunt small animals or to protect his livestock from predators.
Joe off the street still needs significant practice with a sling to become accurate with it, and there is a significant difference from nailing a small animal at close range using a sling in war. Slings require a very loose formation due to the space needed to use them, they have to be used en masse due to accuracy limitations compounded by the range necessary to prevent them from being run down, and had their own logistic issues because sling-bullets have ideal shapes and weights for range and impact. Despite technically being able to use any rock on the ground, archaeological studies always find manufactured sling-bullets, lead or fired clay, in areas where slingers were used in warfare.
Warbows and crossbows got a lot more powerful, and crossbows don't take a lifetime of training to work to their full potential.
Literally the only downsides with slings are the training time and the fact that they have to have a bit more room to spread out. The Logistical advantage over bows and crossbows is absolutely massive, and they have the same range, and equivalent wounding potential at minimum.
Heavy slings were absolutely the equal on a shot per shot basis with the STRONGEST bows and crossbows in history, in other words they dominated the shit out of bows for most of history.
They were used in some capacity from the stone age well into the proliferation of gunpowder. Literally the only reason they were ever not used is because someone else had taken all the slingers already. We always used all the slingers we had throughout history.
Note also that the Longbow (I mean specifically the heavy warbows with draw weights well over 100 pounds) was absurdly better than the Crossbow on a man-per-man basis, yet the massive training required limited their use globally to a kind of all or nothing set up where you either trained the heavy bows obsessively or you didn't. It's the same with the Sling, you're either an obsessive autistic sling culture or you're just not going to bother.
you say the only downside is training time and that is 99% of the problem and why they werent used lol, could conscript a towns full of men with crossbows and theyll be combat ready within the week yet itll take decades for a professional slinger who has equal to less power
He didn't say the only downside is training time. In fact he said the opposite. More powerful and accessible weapons replaced the sling.
>s and theyll be combat ready within the week yet itll take decades for a professional slinger who has equal to less power
Anon "week ready conscription" is 19th century meat grinder enterprise .
Medical city milita would be life time training soldiers who would be by law required to have proper military and equipment and regularry train, that was done via joining town military guilds (archery guild, fencing guilds etc).
Fun fact: famous by his fencing books
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achille_Marozzo
Spend most of his life training Italian cities militia.
So yeah no, mouth breathing conscripts are about US Civil War not about medieval European towns militias.
>So yeah no
When does the narwhal bacon?
It's my understanding that slings were very popular in the middle ages, just mostly for peasants, travelers, and the like. Not least of which due to boredom.
slings were extremely common pretty much all the way up to the invention of the flintlock, they just don't get a lot of screentime in modern media
the neat thing about a sling is that its super small and light so you can just stick one in your pocket along with whatever other gear lord arsehole is making you carry so that you always have a ranged weapon
If you're using it as a sideweapon, you probably won't be trained enough to shoot accurately, especially if you shoot random stones rather than perfect balls
bit of a nit-pick here
the ideal sling projectile is oblong, like a football
Slings are a niche weapon because they have two unique logistical characteristics.
-the initial capital cost is negligible
-the initial training time is extremely high
IOW, it's the ultimate weapon for poor people who have nothing else to do, like shepherds in the hills. They can get good with something effective by directly trading time, instead of going through money as an intermediary.
But for more middle-class or professional sorts a bow is more cost effective on time. Same phenomenon as a crossbow versus a bow.
Food production and surplus in ancient societies is nowhere like what it is today, which means the vast majority of people are engaged in some level of food production/harvesting. You don't have the food surplus to actually set up a training program, but instead when you gather together a bunch of people for war you rely on the skills they've picked up in everyday life. You wouldn't train slingers, so much as find people who used slings day-to-day and organized them into a slinger corps. A change in socioeconomic circumstances that result in people using slings day-to-day less (like the adoption of bows for hunting) will result in a decline of slingers for "military" use.
Enough silly ~~*israeli*~~ story’s
Of all the things to challenge "Man smashes other man's head in with a fist sized rock at 100MPH" is hardly absurd propaganda. A practiced slinger absolutely could lethally concuss you through your helmet, if it even hit the helmet and not some exposed part of your face (common on period equipment)
Yeah, once you actually understand how powerful slings are, the impressive part of David killing Goliath is landing a headshot more than anything.
The impressive part is why goliath just stood there like a fucking retard instead of immediately closing the distance to stab or beat him or even raising his shield to defend his face, since as a fighting man of that era, would have known full well how dangerous a sling was
I thought goliath was advancing on David. IIRC David missed his first two shots
The stone went into his forehead and put him on the ground but it was the subsequent beheading that killed him.
Goliath was walking to the place to do battle when David sprinted forth, shot him in the face, and promptly desecrated his body:
>48 When the Philistine arose and came and drew near to meet David, David ran quickly toward the battle line to meet the Philistine. 49 And David put his hand in his bag and took out a stone, and slung it, and struck the Philistine on his forehead; the stone sank into his forehead, and he fell on his face to the ground.
>50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and struck the Philistine, and killed him; there was no sword in the hand of David. 51 Then David ran and stood over the Philistine, and took his sword and drew it out of its sheath, and killed him, and cut off his head with it. When the Philistines saw that their champion was dead, they fled.
David uses river stones, which can often fit the description of "oblong, like a football."
>40 Then he took his staff in his hand, and chose five smooth stones from the brook, and put them in his shepherd’s bag or wallet; his sling was in his hand, and he drew near to the Philistine.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+17&version=RSVCE
>be philistine
>walk with the boys to battle against some shepards
>we arent that into fighting so we tell our boss to walk in a do some diplomatic boasting
>weird guy come from no where and shoot our boss with a stone.l
>before se can do anything he jump over our boss and decapitate him with his blade
>oh shit these guys are crazy
>we ran away and hope to never see them again
I lieg slings
>Largerly abandoned in Eurasia before even the beginning of the Neolithic
>Continued to have a major role alongside bows and slings in the Americas, was litterally considered by Mesoamericans to be the more refined weapon of civilized conquerors over the primitive bow
Why?
The aztecs liked it because their warfare revolved around knocking the enemy unconscious so you can take them prisoner and sacrifice at the altar for the gods.
nevermind i was retarded i thought i was looking at the wooden clubs the mesoamericans liked to use
The ritualism in Mesoamerican warfare is overstated anyways. Captive taking was a thing, but it wasn't how all warfare worked: The fact it was tied to rank advancement sort of even tells you that it was seen as an impressive act. Killing and pragmatic tactics absolutely still happened, it's just taking an enemy alive after enemy lines broke or somebody war cornered or injured was also valued; and there were some specific ritualistic conflicts like Flower Wars (and even those may have been largely pragmatic with just ritual undertones)
Atlatl spear thrower
How exactly was David not just cheating? It's like me going for a heavy weight belt fight and just shooting a guy in the face. Is that the great moral lesson to learn? You can always win against a superior opponent if you cheat?
> You can always win against a superior opponent if you cheat?
Welcome to real world and every war ever fought. Enjoy your stay.
Yes, cheating gives you advantage and dead men tell no tales. History is written by the victors. Honor is a social construct, etc. etc.
Maybe he doesn't hit him.
Maybe he misses.
Maybe Goliath blocks.
If you think that there's no chance between an spear man and a slinger at speaking distance, you're high.
History is full of soldiers and generals from non slinging cultures underestimating the Sling and paying for it dearly. Maybe Goliath's people weren't prolific slingers.
Slingers tended to be shepherds, who would learn the sling during their long hours of watching sheep in order to have a low cost way to deter predators and thieves.
This is why farmers need firearms in modern times. Not only do you have to police your property where police response time is low, you have to protect crops and livestock from predator animals. Those beltway pansies up in Washington don't get this, or maybe they do and feel threatened by it.
>underestimated
>skilled in long range weaponry
>one shot, one kill, no luck, just skill
>relatively less equipped yet deeply brave
>up against overwhelming odds and weaponry
Sounds a bit like a guerilla sniper in modern times.
>no luck, just skill
Neither shoot 0moa.
>showing up to a sword fight with a sling makes you deeply brave
let's see that fucking skull cap, israelite
with the right technique sling, sling troops could throw supersonic quite easily.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/r9Q64HDwGNs
Nice, but can he aim after doing that chun li move?
yes but that wasn't the point, it was to have like 100-500 of them doing this constantly with lead balls that had a hole through them towards approaching enemies 200 yards or more away, scary shit, and if it hit anybody it would do serious damage too.
>meanwhile .45 pistol shoots way smaller bullets at subsonic speed
>inb4 pistol is more practical
I wanna become a slinger now
>sling troops could throw supersonic quite easily.
Typical zoomer fuddlore (many such cases).
Gunners world records for sling throw is 477m. They didn't Chrono this throw but from flight distance it can be estimated like something around 70-80m/sec
You were absolutely correct until you revealed yourself as a noguns eurofag. What a shame, we'll have to wait for someone with a gun to come and make your correct argument again.
Seeth as much as you can sling ain't gonna be faster.
So why does it sound like a thunder?
Are Nerf Vortexes supersonic? How about a whip or belt?
Whip is supersonic
Intardasting, I yield. Seems I overestimated how fast sound is.
I'm
not the guy you were replying to earlier by the way
I saw a doccy woccy where the claimed roman peltasts had about the same impact energy as .45 ACP.
>Why was is it popular in antiquity but not then?
Much, much cheaper than a bow. Takes 0 skill to make a sling. However, it takes a lot of practice. Which is fine if you're a pastoral community because sitting around watching your goats all day gives you plenty of hours to practice.
>How does it compare to a bow?
Bows deal better damage (and shoot faster) and, most importantly: you don't need as much space around you to shoot a bow. Also, bowmen can shoot from *behind* pikemen.
>Can it really kill an 8 feet tall warrior in bronze helmet and armor?
Yes, a lead ball hurled at 100 mph can ruin your day if you catch it face-first.
Id like to know why the sling became so overrated these past 5 years
>a sling would blow your head off, dad!
Slings will always have a place.
During the Spanish conquest of Peru, the remnant Inca firebombed Cuzco with slings.
>heat stones in fire
>wrap in cloth saturated with pitch
>fire with slings
>bullets ignite mid-air
>burn town down from cliffs above
Slinging is fun and pretty easy to get a hang of in a day or two. When I'm in the field I'll practice a bit.
slings are a fantastic weapon against people wearing no armor
forget slings, why did javelins go out of fashion?
My hypothesis is that's because trip hammers and therefore large peaces of metal like swords (correct me if swords aren't made with trip hammers) fell out of favor until late middle ages. If you only have a knife as a sideweapon, you don't wanna throw your spear away. I guess in late middle ages swords weren't as expensive but these were the times of knight charges and pikes were probably better against them then javelins.
Slings were used in various forms for war from their inception to the 1700s. the form of slings past about the 1100s normally took on the form of a fustibalus, which was used more as a siege weapon than for open combat in the field. the loss of preference of the sling was due to the fact that a sling could not easily defeat the padded armor that became popular in the medieval era, and the helmets became particularly effective against it. Thus a cutting type projectile like the bow and spear became far more popular as they could inflict wounds far more capably against the early common armor. the sling never really lost use entirely, but wasn't used as a weapon of war since about the 1700s, mostly being killed off due to the advent of guns.