Should tanks and armored vehicles have more coaxial machine guns like the many gunned merkava?

Should tanks and armored vehicles have more coaxial machine guns like the many gunned merkava? Or will tanks with 20 & 30mm autocanons be the right move for future tank designers?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The best solution is remote weapons independent of the main gun. Having to rotate the whole turrent to shoot some. 7.62 doesn't make much sense in modern times

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Having a smaller automatic weapon lined-up alongise your main gun when you want to shoot something that doesn't warrent a tank shell still makes sense.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        but you can still do this with a normal independently rotating armament.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          It add weight.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      50cal on a Rws works fine

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I shill 30mm in a RWS/secondary turret for anti-drone defence.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, it does everything the .50 does but better, at least in this role

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah with slovakia having an interest in buying some leopard 2s perhaps they will donate their modernas and we can see the 30mm rcws in action

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Slovakia donating any military aid to Ukraine
        Did u check who is in power there as of last September? Literally a mafia boss who manipulate the pro Russian crowd of flat earthers in to making sure him and his cronies don't end up in jail. Slovakian government is not donating any military hardware since Fico got in power. Besides that I am not sure if there were any modernas beside the prototypes.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >In the future tanks will have autocannons instead of smoothbore guns
    >...
    >NO NOT LIKE THAT

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >instead of

      • 2 weeks ago
        1-Bravo-Foxtrot-Alpha

        Obligatory

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          My homie

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        You're telling me the SMK/Neubaufahrzeug route is the future?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Good idea, bad implementation. It would be fine if it could hit what it aimed at.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How should I know?
    I'm just a guy browsing the internet

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    no coax just main gun and canister rounds

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >be tanks
    >cost millions
    >get btfo by $300 Amazon diy drones
    >boomers and other idiots born in the last century discuss about ways to keep you relevant
    >maybe give it more machine guns for his 3 minute of spotlight until the drone finds it

    Even discussing producing more or any type of tank in 2024 is like discussing how to improve muskets in the age of automatic rifles. The correct way to go would be to discuss how tank production can be ceased indefinitely.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >btfos drones
      Oh no. Anyways.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Drones have proven completely incapable of opposing late 2000s era American jammers seen on every humvee.
      I get you want to pretend ISIS and GWOT never existed, and that every basement programmer can build super TERCOM with AI++ based on image libraries they don't have, but realistically, you're fighting the last war. FPVs are useless against America, China, and most other first-world nations.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I guess these Abrams, Leo’s and Challengers offed by drones blew themselves up in r/ukraine. That one merkava 2 they attacked with drones accidentally decided to stop working.

        Kek, tankies are so dumb.

        https://i.imgur.com/WHCZT3I.jpeg

        >btfos drones
        Oh no. Anyways.

        >just mount lasers on tanks that need energy sources only available on ships due to their size to keep tanks relevant.

        It’s beyond memes at this point.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >15 kW laser is apparently beyond the power plant of a tank
          Lol.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >tank engines: over 1 megawatt output
            >CUAS lasers: 10-300 kw output
            I think they'll manage sweetie.

            Oh noes, we will have to use 3 drones instead of one. Unfair! This makes the tank relevant again.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >laser just burns up 3 drones
              lmao, at least you could theoretically overwhelm a gun-based anti-drone system

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >tank engines: over 1 megawatt output
          >CUAS lasers: 10-300 kw output
          I think they'll manage sweetie.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >turdie spends hundreds of dollars on dji slop
            >us spends 1 dollar burning it to ash

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          ' lasers
          >It’s beyond memes at this point.
          It's just getting started.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The correct way to go would be to discuss how tank production can be ceased indefinitely.
      It's been 2+ years of a war where both sides have been in a continual desperate fricking scramble to get their hands on as many tanks as possible. As long as war involves cannons and vehicles tanks are going to remain very relevant.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Drones have proven completely incapable of opposing late 2000s era American jammers seen on every humvee.
      I get you want to pretend ISIS and GWOT never existed, and that every basement programmer can build super TERCOM with AI++ based on image libraries they don't have, but realistically, you're fighting the last war. FPVs are useless against America, China, and most other first-world nations.

      Automatic grenade launchers and ATGMs are the way to go

      I guess these Abrams, Leo’s and Challengers offed by drones blew themselves up in r/ukraine. That one merkava 2 they attacked with drones accidentally decided to stop working.

      Kek, tankies are so dumb.

      [...]
      >just mount lasers on tanks that need energy sources only available on ships due to their size to keep tanks relevant.

      It’s beyond memes at this point.

      IN THE NEAR FUTURE THE COMMANDER AND HIS TANK WILL HAVE RELIABLE AND AUTONOMOUS HARDKILL DEFENCE AGAINST INFANTRY AND DRONES. AUTOMATIC AND MANUAL.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Incan already tell this is DOA. Why are people unable to understand that sending more drones from different angles is easy peasy and is going to be the norm once AI takes over from human pilots? In the future you will just mark a tank and an algorithm will activate the appropriate amount of drones stored in drone box to hunt it down. It will choose the correct amount of drones, correct attack vectors, correct type of ammunition the drones carry and will rapefrick the tank.

        Every solution tankies dream up is to solve the one drone problem, completely ignoring that even 20 or 40 drones can easily be deployed per tank.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the enemy will just sit there and take it like a b***h
          except it never happens, after the war in ukraine it's more likely we'll overcorrect and put airburst munitions/lasers/jammers on every bit of hardware.
          if we can use AI to drive drones we can use AI to handle short range antiair batteries in the field.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Absolutely delusional. Drone development just wont stop today. You will see dive bomber drones, shotgun drones, rape that tank in the butthole drone swarms flying autonomous at 300 km/h 2 meters over highly completely jammed terrain.

            You don't even see the irony in trying to keep something totally obsolete relevant that is not regaining its relevancy by attaching more gimmicks on top of it. But people like you would even try to keep tanks around if a single rifle round could take it out.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Your entire line of reasoning seems to assume isolated and vulnerable tanks, and impervious and omnipresent drones. Sales of tanks and other armored vehicles have only been going up right alongside widespread drone adoption, I don't think the concept of flying bombs makes an armored vehicle less appealing.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Even if tanks go obsolete at the operational level they remain valuable at the tactical level. That's a distinction I don't think you understand.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The original (circa 1960s) point of coax was constantly spewing 762 nonstop. Nonstop. Everywhere a tank goes wherever there's a suspicious bush or rock - 762 on it.

    Today switching to a HMG for longer range and less ammo seems fair but an autocannon as the coax seems too far. Maybe RWS.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Automatic grenade launchers and ATGMs are the way to go

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If your tank is engaging infantry in small arms range you are doing something wrong
      >what is fallujah
      no you're doing exactly what tanks are supposed to do, support infantry, not larp as drones doing breakthroughs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You can support infantry by lobbing an HE shell into a building instead of having your marines role-playing as SWAT and getting them killed for nothing

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          no that's literally genocide

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Russian or israelite detected

          no that's literally genocide

          >no that's literally Russians and israelites
          FTFY

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Coax guns are moronic, If your tank is engaging infantry in small arms range you are doing something wrong

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >small arms range
      You mean 1km+?

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The abrams X seems to have paper thin armor from the top
    Even tanks that will be produced way after the Ukraine war are obsolete today

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No, they aren’t. If we manage to mount high powered lasers on them we can keep them around the battlefield for as long as it takes people to figure out how to control drone swarms. Tanks will never be obsolete, they just have to be around because I want them to be, okay?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >paper thin top armor
      wonder how the roof armor kits for leopards (see strv 122) shook out

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      AbramsX was a one-off technology demonstrator built by General Dynamics to show off at a convention

  11. 2 weeks ago
    1-Bravo-Foxtrot-Alpha

    Yes, and miniguns

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >until the crew was ordered to remove it.

      Why?

      • 2 weeks ago
        1-Bravo-Foxtrot-Alpha

        Strategic
        Transfer
        of
        Equipment
        to
        Alternate
        Location
        I presume this is why

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          I think you mean Supplies Taken in Excess of Authorized Limits

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >bro just install a giant laser machine on every tank
    Or literally just make a tank with actual armor on the sides ,top and back ? If its heavy put a bigger engine on it

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >just make it heavier dude
      We found out why this doesn't work by 1944, catch up.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I really like the Nazi Germany feeling this paint scheme has. We need more grey tanks.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >average tank already costs 12-15 mill dollarinos per unit
    >for it to be operational you need a frickton of logistics, crew, fuel, extra vehicles etc so the real cost might be double that
    >it gets btfod by guided tol-attack missiles that cost 10 times less or by drones that even if you need ten to 20 cost almost 1000 times less
    >moronic boomers still insist that we should ad lasers, trophy, EW equipment and even more expensive shit that will push the price even further and make you even more of a target
    Kek I now know how young men felt in ww1 when geriatric morons told them to walk at machine-guns because they were too moronic and proud to accept that war has changed and that the Russo-Japanese and Boer war showed how brutal it will be.
    Mark my words morons will take us to war and we will be merked just like ziggers and piggers by drones only in more expensive armoured coffins.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >has no idea how good or bad laser defenses are/will be(tbh none of us do since we don't have detailed specs of any of these lasers and I doubt we have many laser specialists on /k/)
      >proceeds to act like he knows everything about warfare

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Its just hilarious how bad boomers want to keep tanks relevant. What really sends my sides into space is the fact that they are dreaming up some wunderwaffen that will defeat a single drone, completely ignoring the fact that sending 2, 4, 8, 256 drones per tank would still totally rapefrick any tank with advanced anti drone measures for a fraction of the cost of a tank. It's like talking to very unintelligent people.

      >has no idea how good or bad laser defenses are/will be(tbh none of us do since we don't have detailed specs of any of these lasers and I doubt we have many laser specialists on /k/)
      >proceeds to act like he knows everything about warfare

      >this technology that has just passed prototype testing will surely be able to kill that one drone they send after a tank.

      You don't even realize how dumb you sound.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >something isn't perfect right now so it doesn't have potential
        I'm sure militaries of the world will just let themselves get droned and will not think of countermeasures.
        There is this one video, admittedly promotional, that shows a whole swarm getting MICROWAVED.com.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >>this technology that has just passed prototype testing will surely be able to kill that one drone they send after a tank.
        You don't even realize how dumb you sound. American anti drone laser systems have been in development since 2013, bolt-on systems have been passing field tests and participating in exercises since 2018, and at least two units are actively shooting down drones in the Middle East while others progress to live fire testing (also in the ME). Here, I'll spoonfeed you.
        https://www.army.mil/article/116740/Army_vehicle_mounted_laser_successfully_demonstrated_against_multiple_targets/
        https://www.thedefensepost.com/2021/09/09/army-stryker-laser-weapon/
        https://www.wired.com/story/laser-wars-us-military-laser-weapons/
        https://breakingdefense.com/2024/03/exclusive-strykers-with-50-kilowatt-lasers-in-centcom-for-experiment-army-no-2-says/
        Dronegays get the photon.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        >tanks have no counter for our n+1 drone technique, where n = the number of drones the tank can counter

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is a 7.62x51 coax and remote M-230 30mm turret not enough for you. Instead of more guns all pointing the same direction (coax) swap one or both of the camera turrets wit M-134 or GAU-19 turrets with fire rate controls on the side of the screen.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Merkava is not an MBT because its principle function is to demolish residential neighbourhoods while opposed by militiamen, rather than to serve as a breakthrough vehicle against peer conventional

    it is essentially a freakishly heavily armed and armoured COIN vehicle which can theoretically be pressed into service in the MBT role, hence all the MGs and other weird features like front mounted engine [and hence israel's unwillingness to invade any neighbours other than Gaza

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >what doctrinehomosexualry does to a mf

  18. 2 weeks ago
    all fields

    I don't know why dronetards fetishize drones when top attack missiles are and have been doing the exact same thing but better in every single way, for literally 20 years.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Price and availability. Drones have cameras and can hover or return too

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Same reason militiagays fetishize guns. It's something cheap, legal, relatively low-skill, and individually usable, so it feels relatable and attainable to power-fantasizing larpers.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >future
    >manned tanks
    >mud sinking/street crushing/bridge collapsing 60 ton tanks
    tanks are dead as a concept
    cheap wheeled 105/120 mm armored drones are the future

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Loaders are better than autoloaders

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        at what? killing themselves?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They absolutely are not.

        >has no idea how good or bad laser defenses are/will be(tbh none of us do since we don't have detailed specs of any of these lasers and I doubt we have many laser specialists on /k/)
        >proceeds to act like he knows everything about warfare

        2KW, built using entirely off the shelf parts, burns through thicker and stronger metal than is on any drone at good fractions of a km.

        Military laser systems have 25-75x the power.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          I'm going to respond to this post, because in a sea of homosexuals, morons, and bots, it deserves acknowledgement.

          Anon, you are correct. People will ignore you because they don't want to be correct, they want to be "right."

          Fricking normies get the laser.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Both at the same time.

  21. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Most of the guns on the merkava require you to poke your head out
    And in the case of the 50 call welded to the barrel someone has to lay on top of the tank to use it

  22. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Did anyone else notice that the "drones make tanks obsolete" crowd quieted down around the time the "cope sheds make tanks invulnerable to drones" people showed up? And once the cope shed people seemed to fade into the background the dronegays showed up again?

  23. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Main gun should be a blister that includes a 150 mm cannon, maybe smoothbore, a 30 mm coaxial cannon, a .50 BMG and 7.62. Why not? Give the gunner all the options, plus his CROWS.

  24. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Current gen and design tanks 100% obsolete.

    The future is unmanned turret and a crew of 1-2. ( i dont think AI/elf driving is useful for tanks) now having them fully remotely operated is a possibility.

    >drone swarm copers
    the meme of the drone swarm goes completely against why the drones are super effective right now lol.
    1 drone can sneak in and nuke a tank. Having to use an enture swarm is a downgrade already AND makes those AOE defense pieces way better

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