Shotguns

Why have shotguns seemingly disappeared from most militaries? They were used quite a lot 15 years ago, but in all the recent conflicts in Ukraine and Israel I haven't seen anyone using them. They would seem to be an ideal weapon for trench clearing and drone defence, as well as CQB against unarmored terrorists, but it's all just rifles now. Thoughts?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Clever girl.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    because of fricking grenade launchers and thermobaric rocket launchers. m8 fell cute..

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  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >They were used quite a lot 15 years ago
    no they weren't. shotguns have been specialty weapons for military use for quite a while.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      shotguns were used a ton in the GWOT, you know nothing. every squad had a shotgunner for breaching/doors and even room clearing, especially where rifles were too bulky

      shotguns are inherently a specialty weapon but so are full size M16A4s that would get caught up in the tiny hallways and 2/3 height doors of mud huts in Iraq

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >especially where rifles were too bulky
        Sounds weird when most of their shotguns were long Mossbergs or Benellis.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          except they weren't, they were modified 590s with bird's heads that'd been sawed off and carried in a scabbard or hung with paracord

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            No, the most common shotgun in GWOT was a 20" barrel 590a1, some units and SOF could purchase the youth stocks for them to make them shorter.
            The second most common was the benelli m4 with a 14" barrel and collapsible stock.
            Some SOF units has 14" pistol grip(not birds head) shotguns for breaching.
            Also most these units used birdshot or breaching rounds, and has 0 ammunition that would be deemed effective on a human threat, as the shotgun was a breaching tool, not a fighting qeapon.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >th-their 14" M4s were too big for room clearing, s-so they used their 20" mossberg 590a1s loaded with breaching rounds to clear rooms

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >implying majority of soldiers had M4s
          >implying they had 14"s

          lol this what happens when you're raised by video games and a single mother

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Black person, the majority of US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan had M4s.
            You're thinking of the marines, who couldn't afford to drop the M16 until late GWOT.
            But the marines only made up ~20% of the US combat force in the middle east

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Why would you go on the internet and just make up lies like this

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The M4 was adopted by the US Army in 1994 you fricking moron.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                literally not in dispute but nice red herring there chimp dick

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Keep embarrassing yourself.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Even in WWI which saw the largest use, there were only about 1% of small arms made by America were shotguns, and not even all fo them were fielded.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shotguns have been widely used in Ukraine by both sides in attempts to combat drones

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You can see a lot of shotguns used for breaching.
    Most theaters of war recently haven't been suitable for shottys, mid range desert engagements. But when we delt with jungle brush or the current RU-UK trenches or drones, now they have a lot more combat uses. The marines still have shotguns.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    antipersonnel use is really limited if you face soldiers with flak resistant armor - you can argue that you can aim for the head but at te same time your opponent will just use fulllauto asault rifle that has much more penetration and will pierce even best ceramic plates after few rounds

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why have shotguns seemingly disappeared from most militaries?
    Because they've never seen wide use in the militaries, period.
    Especially after assault rifles became mainstream weapon of choice for all branches, there's really no reason to wield either shotgun nor an SMG. You already have way more versatile tool in your hands, with better reach, accuracy and especially armor penetration, and less logistic nightmares.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shotguns have never seen mainstream military service. They have always been for niche roles, like breaching, or for things like guarding prisoners where the guard needs a lethal weapon but there's less of a risk of a prisoner overpowers a guard and takes his shotty vs. a full rifle.

    >They would seem to be an ideal weapon for trench clearing
    A rifle is just as effective yet it holds more ammo and that ammo has better logistical properties. The reason why "trench guns" were a thing in past wars was mainly to free up the production of rifles for people who needed them more while shottys were effective in the short ranges in trenches.

    >drone defense
    range isn't good enough.

    >as well as CQB against unarmored terrorists,
    Rifle kills 'em just as dead, but you can carry more ammo.

    >Thoughts?
    It's a bird gun. It's not surprising at all why its combat uses are limited. Vidya and movies have rotted people's brains.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The reason why "trench guns" were a thing in past wars was mainly to free up the production of rifles for people who needed them more while shottys were effective in the short ranges in trenches.
      That and bolt actions were a lot more prevalent back then.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/fHlCkjs.jpg

      Why have shotguns seemingly disappeared from most militaries? They were used quite a lot 15 years ago, but in all the recent conflicts in Ukraine and Israel I haven't seen anyone using them. They would seem to be an ideal weapon for trench clearing and drone defence, as well as CQB against unarmored terrorists, but it's all just rifles now. Thoughts?

      >They have always been for niche roles
      Don't forget repelling boarders. The guys on the Vinson got to load beanbags and turn the 2.5" firehoses on some Greenpeacers when they tried to storm the ship in '02 or '03. Was awesome, the OOD was audibly laughing his ass off when he gave the "Stand by to repel boarders" order over the hangar deck PA.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    they are still plenty used, zoomer

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >police
      >military
      moron

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        paramilitary still counts, assbutt

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >police
          >military
          moron

          I will say police have adopted far more carbines in recent years and gotten rid of shotguns. I expect it's for their superior killing power and oppressive abilities when dealing with women and children at a distance.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Strange, police are trained to use a knife on women and children

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              [...]
              I will say police have adopted far more carbines in recent years and gotten rid of shotguns. I expect it's for their superior killing power and oppressive abilities when dealing with women and children at a distance.

              ngl big brain idea, like the chechen hostage massacre.

              >they can't take people hostage if we kill all the people

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        GIGN are literally part of the military
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Gendarmerie

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ahh GIGN, a useless group of French morons who other morons point to as justification for a shitty gun, because like the morons they are, GIGN had a couple of every shitty gun made

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The same frogs who thought pic rel was a good idea.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      GIGN also have in their armory
      >shitty bullseye type revolver
      >old AKs
      >fragile and shit bren 2
      But when anything happens they all grab an m4

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Even random civilians can get high quality body armour now, let alone actual armies

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    There aren't enough upsides to shotguns to justify the extra logistics of fielding them

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      hardly any logistics, just let soldiers bring their own and supply them with some 00 buck

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        potentially dumb question; why is it a good/bad idea to tell your infantry to bring their own guns?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          it's a good idea if you specify it has to be a Mossberg Maverick 88, 500, or 590 so you can ensure ease of use and consistent operation/training across all units

          guys used to bring their own 1911s with them to Korea and Vietnam and most CO's didn't give a frick because they figured that guy would be dead soon or they'd be dead soon

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's a bad idea because now you have a billion morons running around with slightly different guns that you can't ensure a simple and easy supply of spare parts and armorers for, much less having to deal with all the morons who'll manage to bring something below the already low bar of mil-spec and have it break or blow up. There's a reason that the US mil doesn't inherently let infantry bring their own LBE and plate carriers, and it's because for every dude who'd overspend on something gucci for the clout, you'd have 5 morons who buy into a piece of chinese crap and have it fall apart on them in the middle of use.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why have shotguns seemingly disappeared from most militaries
    Because they were a gimmick needed when you don't have enough SMGs and assault rifles.
    > conflicts in Ukraine
    Soviets never recognised shotguns as a legitimate wartime weapon, so they used to design smoothbores only for civilians and police.
    >trench clearing
    If you don't have an AK or anything like that.
    >drone defence
    Most of the drones fly too high and too fast.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shotguns used to cost $20 and the manufacturers were able to make profit at this price
    It's literally a metal tube with a trigger on it
    Nowadays shotguns cost $1000+ and you are paying for "proven trusted quality"
    You can buy a Turkish shotgun for around $500 but boomers will screech at you for buying something that isn't proven reliable and costs half of their investment and doesn't look like fricking dog shit

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Weak b8

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They're best suited for firing at fast moving unarmored targets within 75 yards. Too niche.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >rifles far more devastating on target, especially past 100 yards
    >volume of fire
    >suppressing fire
    >fire rate
    >reload speed
    >carry more ammo
    >ammo is less fragile
    >more complicated to use
    >more recoil
    I love shotgun, I own too many, and I plan to get more, but they are inferior for combat and defence to a modern semiauto rifle.

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