Shooting Advice

This is my 15 shot group at 25 yards standing without any supportive aids. I use the flip up irons that came with my rifle (Colt AR).

I would like to improve my aim, right now I am focusing on centering the front sight post in the peep hole, and aiming at the bullseye with the tip of the front sight post. I try to get a tight weld to my cheek and shoulder with the stock, and slowly press the trigger with my index finger.

I've only been shooting a handful of times, and have shot maybe 1000 rounds between .223 and 9mm. I would like to improve and engrain good habits while I am new. Does anyone have advice or cues that were helpful to them?

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    maybe try spectacles holy shit

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I already wear glasses.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Anything else?

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Breath out and hold your breath before/while you pull
    It's either that, or your trigger pull is shit. In which case, practice pull

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/1yo71ZC.jpg

      This is my 15 shot group at 25 yards standing without any supportive aids. I use the flip up irons that came with my rifle (Colt AR).

      I would like to improve my aim, right now I am focusing on centering the front sight post in the peep hole, and aiming at the bullseye with the tip of the front sight post. I try to get a tight weld to my cheek and shoulder with the stock, and slowly press the trigger with my index finger.

      I've only been shooting a handful of times, and have shot maybe 1000 rounds between .223 and 9mm. I would like to improve and engrain good habits while I am new. Does anyone have advice or cues that were helpful to them?

      To be that bad at 15 yards the gay has to be slapping the trigger hard, and flinching.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm shooting at 25 yards, I fired 15 shots

        >26 MOA group
        Jesus christ

        I'm trying to improve

        https://i.imgur.com/sv7VTrl.jpg

        Shooting offhand is hard for anyone. If you want to be accurate shooting offhand you are going to need to take a more bladed stance with your offhand elbow on your side
        Also a big part of offhand shooting is timing your trigger pull. Your reticle/irons will be swaying back and forth over the target and you need to time your shot with when your reticle/irons are over the target.
        A good trigger will definitely help this but more than anything if you want to be more accurate get a red dot.

        I'm going to look into this, thank you

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's s bad for 25 yards, really bad.
          It's hard how to properly express how bad that is.
          Maybe pick up stamp collecting or something.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're a retarded moron. Instead of telling people not to partake in the same hobby try not being a fucking negative bitch.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >i'm trying to improve
          well it's going to be really fucking difficult to get any worse, so that's something at least.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You definitely have AIDS

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >26 MOA group
    Jesus christ

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shooting offhand is hard for anyone. If you want to be accurate shooting offhand you are going to need to take a more bladed stance with your offhand elbow on your side
    Also a big part of offhand shooting is timing your trigger pull. Your reticle/irons will be swaying back and forth over the target and you need to time your shot with when your reticle/irons are over the target.
    A good trigger will definitely help this but more than anything if you want to be more accurate get a red dot.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That is for long distance offhand shooting.
      At 25 yards no one should be doing this.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Stance does matter. I can't hit shit if I c-clamp, for instance. Just doesn't agree with me. Personally I do best with a VFG relatively close to the magazine well, or just magwell gripping it

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Seconding this guys advice and adding that you don't really need to worry about front sight alignment if you're using the small aperture rear sight, as long as the front post is visible through the aperture and not touching the edges it is properly aligned and you can focus more on the target and keeping steady.

      http://dougkerr.net/Pumpkin/articles/Aperture_Sight.pdf

      Here's a paper on aperture sights if you're interested in how that works and proof of it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >americans took grip clamp c meme seriously
      lmao

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Looks just like my groups... when I uncontrollably mag dump without making even a vague attempt to aim.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In those thousand rounds you shot did you just mag dump in trash or something?

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So many jerk off larping operator fags here. A guy comes asking for help with his aim and everyone diarrhea shits in his face.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      okay big guy whats your advice for op than?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'd tell OP to kill himself but he'd probably miss

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        To avoid obese gays like yourself that spend more money on gear than ammo so they can LARP on 4chins.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Bunch of people also probably didn't look at the picture.
      A 4 inch group at 25 yards offhand is pretty decent for a beginner.
      Take any beginner woman or weak dude and they won't be able to even hit a paper target consistently at 25 yards offhand.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That is for long distance offhand shooting.
        At 25 yards no one should be doing this.

        https://i.imgur.com/sv7VTrl.jpg

        Shooting offhand is hard for anyone. If you want to be accurate shooting offhand you are going to need to take a more bladed stance with your offhand elbow on your side
        Also a big part of offhand shooting is timing your trigger pull. Your reticle/irons will be swaying back and forth over the target and you need to time your shot with when your reticle/irons are over the target.
        A good trigger will definitely help this but more than anything if you want to be more accurate get a red dot.

        Where does OP mention off-hand shooting?!
        fucking retards

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The first sentence. Imagine calling everyone else a retard when you are the retarded one

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >This is my 15 shot group at 25 yards standing without any supportive aids.
            I dunno, we must've dreamed it.

            the fuck does off-hand mean in rifle shooting???
            in pistol shooting, it's shooting with left if you're a righty

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              If this is isn’t bait it means shooting off your hand, not supporting. (I.E not sitting or prone) pic related is off hand.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Offhand shooting is often used to refer to a standing shooting stance.

                Thank you. I was honestly confused

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Generally you hear people refer to what you were thinking as weak hand shooting

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Or weak side shooting

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Offhand shooting is often used to refer to a standing shooting stance.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Why do euros post here?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >This is my 15 shot group at 25 yards standing without any supportive aids.
          I dunno, we must've dreamed it.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          [...]
          the fuck does off-hand mean in rifle shooting???
          in pistol shooting, it's shooting with left if you're a righty

          >when retarded euros post

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            post weight

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              57 killojouls or something. I dunno how to translate it to eurocuck

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                from fat to stupid in two posts

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >what is hyperbole
                Jesus euro.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ha, you nailed it, he is dirty eurotrash

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Good morning, sir!

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Another thing that could be making you less accurate is simply having weak shoulders and forearms which are really important for offhand shooting. The stronger your upper body is the easier it will be to hold the gun steady and shoot offhand. For example many weak women have a really hard time shooting offhand which is why they take a bladed stance naturally and often lean way back.
    If you can't hold a 6 pound weight out in front of your body with your arms streched full length then its going to be hard to shoot a rifle offhand because its essentially the same thing.
    You will shake much much less when holding the weight of the gun out in front of you if you have a stronger upper body.
    Being a good shot in general is about trigger control and sight alignment. But a huge thing about making accurate shots is building a good position. Offhand shooting is something that should be only done if necessary. If you can you should always be building a better shooting position like a kneeling posistion or using some type of barrier for support.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They only have indoor ranges by me so that's what I'm left with. Strength isn't an issue, I deadlift close to 600 and bench 350. Can do 20+pullups as well, and over 100 pushups. I do feel like my rifle sways, like

      https://i.imgur.com/sv7VTrl.jpg

      Shooting offhand is hard for anyone. If you want to be accurate shooting offhand you are going to need to take a more bladed stance with your offhand elbow on your side
      Also a big part of offhand shooting is timing your trigger pull. Your reticle/irons will be swaying back and forth over the target and you need to time your shot with when your reticle/irons are over the target.
      A good trigger will definitely help this but more than anything if you want to be more accurate get a red dot.

      said. I'm going to get someone to record my next time shooting and see if anything stands out. I'll work on my trigger pull as has been suggested, but I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong with it to begin with. There's a lot of conflicting information on YouTube.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If trigger pull was your problem you would be an aweful pistol shooter so if you aren't a terrible pistol shooter then that isn't the issue. Trigger pull with rifles isn't a huge deal until your reaching out to longer ranges or trying to shoot fast and accurate.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'm not very good with my pistol. I can fill up one hole at 10 yards, but at 15 and further I'm all over the place. At 25 I'm 50/50 on the 12"ish target

          I suspect based on your assessment that trigger pull very well might be the problem

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Pistol shooting is the best way to learn better trigger control. Dry fire practice is also extremely useful. I dryfire practice in my room often and its helped my shooting a ton. I noticed after doing dryfire training a lot my pistol groups shrunk about 3 inches at 10 yards.
            Also having a red dot on your pistol helps a ton and can teach you what you are doing wrong with your trigger pull.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Dry fire practice. Try not to move the sight off target while you squeeze the trigger. Buy some snap caps.

              >To clarify, does "staging" the trigger mean slightly pulling it without dropping the hammer/striker?
              Yes, staging is pulling the trigger up to the "wall" or the point of heavier resistance before the trigger breaks and drops the hammer or striker.

              If it's your trigger control you can easily practice dry firing at home, either set up a target in a corner or pick a lightswitch or other feature to aim at and focus on pulling the trigger smoothly and without jarring your sights around.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Strength isn't an issue, I deadlift close to 600 and bench 350. Can do 20+pullups as well, and over 100 pushups

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You are shooting too fast, slapping the trigger, and flinching.
    Basically you are being a spaz.
    Come back when you're 18.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    At 25y shooting offhand that’s not bad for a beginner. Honestly my only advice is to just keep practicing. Every day if you keep doing it, you’ll get better. Track your progress too so you can feel like you are improving

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    lift weights
    fix flinch
    improve pull

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm pretty strong, I'm on a Division 1 athletic scholarship

      They only have indoor ranges by me so that's what I'm left with. Strength isn't an issue, I deadlift close to 600 and bench 350. Can do 20+pullups as well, and over 100 pushups. I do feel like my rifle sways, like [...] said. I'm going to get someone to record my next time shooting and see if anything stands out. I'll work on my trigger pull as has been suggested, but I'm not really sure what I'm doing wrong with it to begin with. There's a lot of conflicting information on YouTube.

      >stage the trigger
      >don't let off the trigger farther than needed to reset
      >if you have iron sights, the front sight must be in focus and the target must be blurry
      >if your eyes can't handle it get a poortex red dot
      >if you flinch, under your earmuffs wear earplugs rolled into a cone on your palm before inserting, don't just jam them in

      To clarify, does "staging" the trigger mean slightly pulling it without dropping the hammer/striker?

      I already double up on ear pro and use the plugs correctly, I'll look into a red dot since my eyes are not great

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >To clarify, does "staging" the trigger mean slightly pulling it without dropping the hammer/striker?
        Yes, staging is pulling the trigger up to the "wall" or the point of heavier resistance before the trigger breaks and drops the hammer or striker.

        If it's your trigger control you can easily practice dry firing at home, either set up a target in a corner or pick a lightswitch or other feature to aim at and focus on pulling the trigger smoothly and without jarring your sights around.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If your eyes aren't great I'd recommend a prism sight for your rifle. The primary arms ones are good and best value.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >stage the trigger
    >don't let off the trigger farther than needed to reset
    >if you have iron sights, the front sight must be in focus and the target must be blurry
    >if your eyes can't handle it get a poortex red dot
    >if you flinch, under your earmuffs wear earplugs rolled into a cone on your palm before inserting, don't just jam them in

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      nvm about the rifle irons, apparently it doesn't matter:

      Seconding this guys advice and adding that you don't really need to worry about front sight alignment if you're using the small aperture rear sight, as long as the front post is visible through the aperture and not touching the edges it is properly aligned and you can focus more on the target and keeping steady.

      http://dougkerr.net/Pumpkin/articles/Aperture_Sight.pdf

      Here's a paper on aperture sights if you're interested in how that works and proof of it.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    25 yards you say? Not bad, not bad. Next time try shooting with your eyes open. Works wonders for me.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Collapsing the stock down a little can help for offhand shooting as well because the weight of the gun is closer to your center gravity and easier to support.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Here you go op

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think a bunch of people in this thread are talking shit but don't know what their own target would look like at 25 yards with iron sights offhand.
    4" group is probably what most people on here would achieve. Thats good enough for most CQB situations its easily a torso sized target out to 50 yards even 100 yards and I would bet most people who talk shit on here don't even shoot offhand out to 100 yards. I try to every time I go shooting and its very difficult without a bladed stance.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Its also not a needed skill because in real life you aren't going to be taking offhand shots at people past 100 yards when you could take a kneeling position or a supported position.
      One of the biggest parts of marksmanship is building a position. Shooting out to 1000 yards is mostly about building a good position, reading the wind, and having good data

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      moron my annual pistol qual is at 25 yards and it is tighter than that

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        So you're an above-average shooter. That doesn't mean what I said was wrong.
        Dude said hes a beginner shooter and for a beginner a 4 inch offhand iron sight group at 25 yards isn't bad.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          And he's using a rifle.
          At 25 yards with a rifle it should be better than that.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The average shooter probably isn't even printing 4 inch groups at 10 yards with a handgun.
        Beginners I have gone shooting with generally have a group around 8 inches at 10 yards

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >4" group is probably what most people on here would achieve.
      WITH A RIFLE?
      come the fuck on, anon. Michael J Fox would be able to group tighter than that at 25 yards.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How fast are you firing?

    That's terrible even for 100 yards.

    Might want to read up on proper stance and trigger pull.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Go to an Appleseed event. Its cheap, fun, and they'll teach you the basics.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Very poor. Keep the same sight picture and breathing time (hold after inhale or exhale but not both). It doesn't matter how far you are from center, what matters is that you make holes in paper consistently next to each other.

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    not op but I'm shit too and want to get better. is this good advice? it's a lot to take in. I was cautioned by more experienced shooters that trying to practice when you don't know what you're doing will just reinforce whatever you're doing wrong.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what the fuck, try not rolling around while shooting?

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1. Make sure you're using the small peep on the rear sight. It's a bitch to see-through, but is more accurate at distance and marksman application where fast sight-picture acquisition is unnecessary.
    2. The bottom 4 are now your goal. As long as you consistently held your sights on the center x; your goal should be fixing the other shots.
    3. The shots directly vertical are likely you slapping the trigger, anticipating the shot, or flinching.
    4. The shots to the top left are likely you not tucking your left elbow down and towards your body, you slapping the trigger, or "pushing" the trigger to one side during your pull.

    I'm an average shooter. I would call this "good shooting" for a new person with an AR-style rifle using irons at 25 yards with no formal training. I would highly recommend finding a "tactical carbine" class to take - YouTube gets a little dicey when it comes to shooting, because most people are trying to sell you a product.

    Good job, keep practicing.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >is more accurate at distance
      distances such as
      25 yards?
      hmm?

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Be less tense and practice.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The amount of noshoots/noguns in this thread is insane holy shit.

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >at 25 yards standing without any supportive aids. I use the flip up irons that came with my rifle
    >rifle
    >RIFLE
    holy shit. I thought you were going to say you were using like a colt woodsman one-handed or something.
    this is atrocious. it would be bad even with a .22 target pistol shooting bullseye like I mentioned above. With a rifle... I don't see how it's possible, to be quite honest. do you have some sort of tremors? I'm serious now.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Everyone claiming how good a shot they are
    >No groupings besides OP
    >Not even someone trying to pass off a bench rest grouping

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It would in fact be difficult to stage a worse group than OPs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        See

        https://youtu.be/_6c8BqoaZzw

        Everyone in this thread is trolling or stupid. One of the best trainers in the world has similar groups at a closer range although he is shooting faster most likely. Your accuracy is fine as long as you can improve speed.

        You want a tip, get training, pay a qualified instructor with a good reputation to watch you shoot. Don't trust this site to help you in any way.

        And stop posting.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't know what to tell you man, I can get much smaller groups than that at that distance.
          True, I won't be doing pull-ups just before and firing that fast, but then again, neither was OP, was he?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The amount of unhelpful replies in this thread is staggering. Good luck op, get training. Even if it's only one good class, it will weed out a lot of the bullshit. You aren't even doing that bad. Most people can't even hit a head sized target at 25 yards without support. Practice until you can reliably hit a playing card at that distance. There are no shortcuts to shooting, have fun.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Everyone in this thread is trolling or stupid. One of the best trainers in the world has similar groups at a closer range although he is shooting faster most likely. Your accuracy is fine as long as you can improve speed.

    You want a tip, get training, pay a qualified instructor with a good reputation to watch you shoot. Don't trust this site to help you in any way.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm thinking he needs a longer buttstock because I tend to shoot high if my stock position is too short

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Shooting Advice
    >This is my 15 shot group at 25 yards...
    Join Police force, Get training . This is my target group at 25yds with pistol.

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >100% of PrepHole gets it wrong
    Peep sights ARE NOT parallax free. Take a pen, remove the ink tube and cap and look through the center of the pen body with the tip of the pen at a fixed, more or less, distance from the opening. You can shift the open end of the cylinder and put the pen tip on exactly the same point and just like the rifle the true center will be not what you're actually looking at. A rear peep is still a cylinder and here's what the rest of the thread missed: you need consistent head position. Even the poster who posted the USMC marksmanship video only got half way there.

    How do you keep a consistent head position? The one lesson EVERYBODY misses OR assumes you already know? Get as close to the rear aperture as you comfortably can then get closer, this shortens the length of the imaginary cylinder between your eye and the peep while also reducing any perspective changes between trigger pulls and coming off the gun to reload or check the target.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Is nose to charging handle a good way to do this?

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shoot 50 rounds. Unload the gun and dryfire. Are you pushing your rifle?

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I that a bad group? It looks better than mine.

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I would like to improve my aim
    Practice more.
    >have shot maybe 1000 rounds between .223 and 9mm
    That's a lot of shooting for the MOA you are doing at 25 yards.
    Practice more, try "following through" when you shoot. Meaning keep your eyes open, and on the target through the shot.
    Good luck.

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is my first ever 10 shot group at 25 meters with irons. Standing, no support. German Schmeisser AR15. You are not alone.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Looks like a good group, especially for your first time. If you can shoot with any rapidity or under pressure, wouldn’t that be effective in combat? At first, I thought OP was flexing until I read the comments,,, now I’m self conscious

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