Shit Soil Rehab

Hi PrepHole, I don't come here often but I'd like some advice - or at least, to be pointed in the right direction.
I'm >renting a place with a small backyard that's been completely destroyed by weeds and neglect. I'd like to start growing produce back there, but the topsoil is made up of sandy silt and decorative gravel. I've started to seperate the gravel from the soil using a shitty hand sieve, but now I am wondering what to do with the silt.
Can it be "healed" into workable soil in any way? I'm in the southwest. Pictures of the soil in question forthcoming

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    This is the raw silt after being separated from the gravel. It's very fine - mostly dust. I've started trying to rehabilitate another bucket of the stuff, with tepid results.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    This is the silt mud I've been playing with. It's about 10 lbs of silt mixed with water and a few handfuls of of potting soil I had. It's been 2 days and hasn't dried out yet, but when it does I'm eager to see if it remains as dusty as it was before the mix. Is this all it will take to work my abundance of silt into good gardening soil? Any input is appreciated

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Rather than sieving everything apart, I think it's better to foster the natural development of good soil. Picking some gravel out is good for growing plants, but turning your whole yard would probably destroy the few microbes currently living in the soil. Most desert crops are adapted to rocky soil anyways.
    I'm not sure how dry your place is, but compost will be beneficial. I figure till shallowly to remove the biggest rocks and weed seeds before applying compost, ideally from a local material like dry grass or mesquite bark. In the compost you can plant some beneficial native/naturalized plants. Especially ones that attract insects - pollinators, burrowers, etc. Even consider a wood pile or shallow-rimmed clay pot full of water, to foster critters visiting your spot. You want to let the bugs and plants do the work of aerating/sieving the soil, because they foster a while microbial community and leave nutrients in the soil via their droppings.
    IDK how much time you have tho. If you're only renting for a year, you may consider just a shallow till, compost, and crops surrounded by the beneficial natives/wildflowers. I figure you want to plant the produce pretty densely, so as to shade out weeds and retain soil moisture. After all, you can always thin later, and the southwest has no shortage of sunlight.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      So you think a shallow till over the whole area would help? I don't want to cultivate the entire area, (approx. 15 sq. ft) as I'd still like space for a small garden, bench, etc.
      Part of my motivation here is that I can use the gravel pebbles (pic related) for decoration and to stop soil erosion where rain pours off my roof. Is there any way at all that I can utilize the silt byproduct of my sieving as good soil? Would it be worth to mix it in a certain ratio with gardening soil? If I have to, raised beds are an option - im planning on getting lumber anyway to make a compost back there.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Shallow till only if you can immediately cover with compost and native seeds. If you can't, just don't till, plant native seeds, and let succession do the work. Otherwise the weeds will come right back, and even worse, because the soil is even more disturbed and bare.
        When I say compost I'm just referring to raw organic material that you spread over the yard to stop moisture loss and encourage soil critters. Like bark, straw, wood chips, etc. not true compost, but it composts where it lies. Especially if it's wet.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >15 sq. ft
        You may as well just make raised beds or grow in fabric planters. It will probably be cheaper and certainly faster than turning that soil into something you can grow vegetables in unless you want to dump soluble fertilizers in every other day. You can fill the beds/bags with 100% compost or mix in some of the already sifted native soil.
        also look into "lasagna gardening"

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          do this OP

          considering that you're renting, it's not worth the effort to fix the landlord's poor property maintenance. just mow, trim, and uproot the weeds as best you can and you're fine. all you're doing is keeping them in control (ish) so they don't spread to your beds too much. consider putting in a click-together patio walk, or something similar so you can access your beds, but I wouldn't take the project too seriously.

          Raised beds or box planters will get your plants growing sooner and with better results than fixing this problem. If you want to go down the rabbit hole, there are relevant techniques used in regenerative agriculture and soil rehabilitation/restoration, but you likely won't have a functional garden for upwards of a few years.
          >unless you just buy a metric ton of compost and topsoil and just spread it on top

          I'm [...]. One thing I never understood is, how am I supposed to plant crops without tilling ever? Like I understand that tilling is bad once you have your cover crops/rotation going, but I have to remove the weed seeds for the initial crop somehow. Either slash-and-burn or an initial till seems the only way to do this.

          On large farms they typically spray for weeds. Smaller farms might use weeders, which look like rakes or "combs" that are spaced with tines between whatever the crop's planting bed orientation is. Both get dragged behind a tractor, some are small enough to be mounted on the three point hitch and others are trailers. You could do this by hand on a small plot if you really felt so inclined.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >Go to woodland / forest
            >Take a few buckets with you
            >Fill them with forest hummus (the leaf litter and dirt on top of the forest floor)
            >Don't worry about all that sieving shit
            I can't imagine having to sieve through all the dirt, do you have a car? If so, just drive somewhere else, buy some dirt from someone, find someone who owns any woodland and fill up buckets with dirt, anything really.

            >15 square feet
            lmao, okay, none of what I said above is really neeed, whack the weeds down, throw some soil in there on raised beds if you want, gradually add in organic matter to the soil.
            For such a tiny amount of soil you can easily mulch the whole thing.

            I'm [...]. One thing I never understood is, how am I supposed to plant crops without tilling ever? Like I understand that tilling is bad once you have your cover crops/rotation going, but I have to remove the weed seeds for the initial crop somehow. Either slash-and-burn or an initial till seems the only way to do this.

            If it's a little home garden having some weeds in the rows isn't actually that bad.
            >Pull up weeds when you go to weed the garden
            >Throw them on the ground underneath your plants
            >Weeds typically evolved to grow in poor soil and extract nutrients from the soil, some even fix nitrogen
            >Adding these weeds back into your soil as organic matter is great for the soil, works as free mulch too
            For a little home garden weeds aren't really a problem as long as you keep up with it and don't neglect it for weeks.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Weed is basically any plant you don't like. Lots of things people call weeds are actually very beneficial to the soil and are actually attracted to shit soil.
              Dandelions, for example, are very beneficial to soil as a nitrogen fixer as well as breaking up hardpan dirt.
              And things like Clover and Chickweed are natural fertilizer...All three of them are edible.

              do this OP

              considering that you're renting, it's not worth the effort to fix the landlord's poor property maintenance. just mow, trim, and uproot the weeds as best you can and you're fine. all you're doing is keeping them in control (ish) so they don't spread to your beds too much. consider putting in a click-together patio walk, or something similar so you can access your beds, but I wouldn't take the project too seriously.

              Raised beds or box planters will get your plants growing sooner and with better results than fixing this problem. If you want to go down the rabbit hole, there are relevant techniques used in regenerative agriculture and soil rehabilitation/restoration, but you likely won't have a functional garden for upwards of a few years.
              >unless you just buy a metric ton of compost and topsoil and just spread it on top

              [...]
              On large farms they typically spray for weeds. Smaller farms might use weeders, which look like rakes or "combs" that are spaced with tines between whatever the crop's planting bed orientation is. Both get dragged behind a tractor, some are small enough to be mounted on the three point hitch and others are trailers. You could do this by hand on a small plot if you really felt so inclined.

              Not all forest hummus is created equal...Pine hummus can be too acidic if harvested at the wrong time of year.

              I'm [...]. One thing I never understood is, how am I supposed to plant crops without tilling ever? Like I understand that tilling is bad once you have your cover crops/rotation going, but I have to remove the weed seeds for the initial crop somehow. Either slash-and-burn or an initial till seems the only way to do this.

              It depends on how much property you are cultivating, your region, and what your target crops are. You left out key information required to even begin answering that question.
              You could have shit crop rotation the wrong crops for your soil conditions. Weeds, en masse, almost never just "appear" they're usually invited. "weeds" are the guide to understanding your soil, they are almost always the result of the problem--not the problem itself.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      consider adding compost (or better yet biochar) to increase the organic carbon content, nothing wrong with a silty loam, the fact that the soil has been supporting lots of "weed" plant life goes to show that the isn't needing any healing as you have put it. The soil clearly has the potentual to grow shit.
      Don't sieve the soil, you want you will ruin the structure, likewise, when silty soil gets wet you shouldn't compress it in any way if possible - else you will frick up the airation and actually damage it. Consider promoting worm growth whilst simultaniously growing a nitrogen fixing plant like clover (or any local nitrogen fixing plant). Try not to break up the soil structure as that will harm the fungal communities in the soil which will cause more harm than good. These are also excellent ideas, though I would personally recommend not tilling the soil as there are studies to show better soil nutrient quality when no tillage methods are utilised, not to mention that if your living in a dry area tilled soil catches the wind and can have your topsoil become leeched away via the wind.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I'm

        Rather than sieving everything apart, I think it's better to foster the natural development of good soil. Picking some gravel out is good for growing plants, but turning your whole yard would probably destroy the few microbes currently living in the soil. Most desert crops are adapted to rocky soil anyways.
        I'm not sure how dry your place is, but compost will be beneficial. I figure till shallowly to remove the biggest rocks and weed seeds before applying compost, ideally from a local material like dry grass or mesquite bark. In the compost you can plant some beneficial native/naturalized plants. Especially ones that attract insects - pollinators, burrowers, etc. Even consider a wood pile or shallow-rimmed clay pot full of water, to foster critters visiting your spot. You want to let the bugs and plants do the work of aerating/sieving the soil, because they foster a while microbial community and leave nutrients in the soil via their droppings.
        IDK how much time you have tho. If you're only renting for a year, you may consider just a shallow till, compost, and crops surrounded by the beneficial natives/wildflowers. I figure you want to plant the produce pretty densely, so as to shade out weeds and retain soil moisture. After all, you can always thin later, and the southwest has no shortage of sunlight.

        . One thing I never understood is, how am I supposed to plant crops without tilling ever? Like I understand that tilling is bad once you have your cover crops/rotation going, but I have to remove the weed seeds for the initial crop somehow. Either slash-and-burn or an initial till seems the only way to do this.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          You're never going to entirely remove the weed seeds, at least not short term. You can use a broad fork to break up the soil, though. How much space do you have available? One way to build compost is to use every bit of organic matter that you can get ahold of. When people rake their leaves, or are mowing their lawns, offer to haul off as much as you can. Look on craigslist for somebody trying to get rid of some manure. Make a big pile on top of where you plan to have your garden. Turn it every few weeks. If you stay on top of it, it should compost down in just a couple of months. If you do this during the off season, by the time you're ready to grow, it'll be ready. Then you can spread it out.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Interesting. Good plan. It sounds efficient and cost-effective.

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    WHO IS SANDY LOAM?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      He's our man on the ground

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Why do the federales show up when i override the safety settings that the WEF installed on my excavator and dig to deep?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        If you go below 4 feet deep you awaken the old ones. That's why you bury people "six feet under", so that the old ones can reach their flesh.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        They call it "bed"rock because it keeps the sheeple asleep.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        because that's where the lizard people and cave people are.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I have between loamy sand and sandy loam. Things grow but not abundantly. What do I need to add? Peat Moss?

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    might take a while, but you could get a couple of tumbling composters
    move them around the yard, as the compost tea drips out, it'll colonize the soil with microbia, which in turn will help grass and other plants root. and of course, spreading the compost out once it's ready

    had my house built, and the soil was highly acidic to begin with, but when they flattened out the pad around the house, a lot of the surface 'dirt' was just inert clay from +20' below the previous grade. areas below where the composters were placed have grass growing quite nicely, whereas the other areas are still struggling with patchy clover and assorted weeds.
    (our idea was to use dutch clover to rehab the clay areas).

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      consider adding compost (or better yet biochar) to increase the organic carbon content, nothing wrong with a silty loam, the fact that the soil has been supporting lots of "weed" plant life goes to show that the isn't needing any healing as you have put it. The soil clearly has the potentual to grow shit.
      Don't sieve the soil, you want you will ruin the structure, likewise, when silty soil gets wet you shouldn't compress it in any way if possible - else you will frick up the airation and actually damage it. Consider promoting worm growth whilst simultaniously growing a nitrogen fixing plant like clover (or any local nitrogen fixing plant). Try not to break up the soil structure as that will harm the fungal communities in the soil which will cause more harm than good. These are also excellent ideas, though I would personally recommend not tilling the soil as there are studies to show better soil nutrient quality when no tillage methods are utilised, not to mention that if your living in a dry area tilled soil catches the wind and can have your topsoil become leeched away via the wind.

      >15 sq. ft
      You may as well just make raised beds or grow in fabric planters. It will probably be cheaper and certainly faster than turning that soil into something you can grow vegetables in unless you want to dump soluble fertilizers in every other day. You can fill the beds/bags with 100% compost or mix in some of the already sifted native soil.
      also look into "lasagna gardening"

      You're never going to entirely remove the weed seeds, at least not short term. You can use a broad fork to break up the soil, though. How much space do you have available? One way to build compost is to use every bit of organic matter that you can get ahold of. When people rake their leaves, or are mowing their lawns, offer to haul off as much as you can. Look on craigslist for somebody trying to get rid of some manure. Make a big pile on top of where you plan to have your garden. Turn it every few weeks. If you stay on top of it, it should compost down in just a couple of months. If you do this during the off season, by the time you're ready to grow, it'll be ready. Then you can spread it out.

      do this OP

      considering that you're renting, it's not worth the effort to fix the landlord's poor property maintenance. just mow, trim, and uproot the weeds as best you can and you're fine. all you're doing is keeping them in control (ish) so they don't spread to your beds too much. consider putting in a click-together patio walk, or something similar so you can access your beds, but I wouldn't take the project too seriously.

      Raised beds or box planters will get your plants growing sooner and with better results than fixing this problem. If you want to go down the rabbit hole, there are relevant techniques used in regenerative agriculture and soil rehabilitation/restoration, but you likely won't have a functional garden for upwards of a few years.
      >unless you just buy a metric ton of compost and topsoil and just spread it on top

      [...]
      On large farms they typically spray for weeds. Smaller farms might use weeders, which look like rakes or "combs" that are spaced with tines between whatever the crop's planting bed orientation is. Both get dragged behind a tractor, some are small enough to be mounted on the three point hitch and others are trailers. You could do this by hand on a small plot if you really felt so inclined.

      >Go to woodland / forest
      >Take a few buckets with you
      >Fill them with forest hummus (the leaf litter and dirt on top of the forest floor)
      >Don't worry about all that sieving shit
      I can't imagine having to sieve through all the dirt, do you have a car? If so, just drive somewhere else, buy some dirt from someone, find someone who owns any woodland and fill up buckets with dirt, anything really.

      >15 square feet
      lmao, okay, none of what I said above is really neeed, whack the weeds down, throw some soil in there on raised beds if you want, gradually add in organic matter to the soil.
      For such a tiny amount of soil you can easily mulch the whole thing.
      [...]
      If it's a little home garden having some weeds in the rows isn't actually that bad.
      >Pull up weeds when you go to weed the garden
      >Throw them on the ground underneath your plants
      >Weeds typically evolved to grow in poor soil and extract nutrients from the soil, some even fix nitrogen
      >Adding these weeds back into your soil as organic matter is great for the soil, works as free mulch too
      For a little home garden weeds aren't really a problem as long as you keep up with it and don't neglect it for weeks.

      Thanks for the input guys, I'm still goin to have to sift at least some of the rock out of the yard, mostly the stuff on the very top, but at least now I know trying to do the whole thing would just be moronic. For now, I'll focus on cultivating a raised bed or planter, and let the rest of the yard grow freely. I've gotten a few ounces of wildflower seed I'm going to scatter after the last frost that I hope will help, and beyond that I'm working on getting some lumber for a composter. Hopefully I'll be back in a few months with a nice yard to post 🙂

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        It takes around 500 to 1,000 years for a forest to make an inch of soil. Urban dead zones are called urban dead zones primarily because the first thing developers do is get rid of all the top soil and native plants before building anything.
        Unless you're a rancher or raise rabbits you're not going to be able to make or rehab soil.

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    How many of you can actually read this graph?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      it's that hard.
      it's just a breakdown of the 3 types of soil and their compositions in dirt.

      exact same format as a color picker with RGB.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Ternary phase diagrams are common in chemistry.

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