The LGS has a very tempting joog deal (about $700 after all fees) on a new .308 Ruger Scout Rifle with a finish like picrel.
Is the gun itself worth that price? Mechanically seems like basically a modernized Mauser in an easier to source and slightly cheaper caliber so I could afford to shoot it more than my actual surplus Mauser.
My plan is to throw a cheaper LPVO like the new Primary Arms 1-6x Nova Gen 4 and a Magpul RLS sling I have lying around on there and use it for general innawoods stuff.
Is this idea rarted? Is the Ruger Scout Rifle rarted? Is the whole Scout Rifle/brush gun concept rarted?
do you feel like youre not getting enough attention or something?
I'm not that OP. I didn't even see that other thread.
You should always check the catalog before posting the same stupid shit that somebody else posted. That thread was up three hours before you posted this one.
What do you want to do with it?
Something to take along for medium-game hunting and defense against both two and four-legged critters when I go backpacking and camping in the backcountry.
It interests me because it's a more rugged but also lighter, more compact and higher-capacity design than most dedicated hunting rifles but still shoots a full-size round and is more law-friendly and looks less threatening to normies than an AR or other semi rifles when it comes to hunting and open carry. If I run into people they're way less likely to freak out and call in the cops or rangers.
It would do that.
if you live in the woodlands, a single shot in a large bore caliber makes far more sense.
Why? So you can spend more money to shoot less powerful rounds at a slower rate? Single shots and their lovers are fucking retards.
>easy to handload for
>significantly shorter with the same barrel length due to no action length
it's a scout rifle, not a battle rifle.
One of the motivations for scout rifle designs all having 10 round mags as their standard was to facilitate follow-up shots since they're ostensibly meant for engaging fast-moving tougher and more aggressive targets that you can't afford to miss or wait for it to run off and bleed out after one shot because it's actively attacking you.
How does one rapid fire a bolt rifle?
Are you baiting?
Once you know what you're doing with a decent broken-in rifle (ie. not a shitty old mismatched Mosin) you can run the bolt pretty damn fast.Not quite semiauto fast but pretty damn close once you get the hang of it.
The SMLE is famous for how fast the bolt can be cycled. I don't shoot either my Mauser or my K31 all that much and I can cycle the bolt on both of those in less than a second.
Middle finger pulls trigger, thumb and index work bolt.
Also mostly not fully grabbing the bolt handle and more slapping it with your palm helps to not bind the bolt up.
Webm related is what most games (and people) get wrong. If you're dismounting the gun to bolt it you're doing it wrong. Should be able to bolt it without even losing sight picture once you get practiced
Depends on the particular bolt action and your eye relief situation.
If your face is too far forward on the stock the bolt can come back far enough to hit you in the face or nose when cycling it shouldered.
Correct, but just about any short action will clear unless you have a really odd ball length of pull situation. Even my gar, with the shortest possible lop and a long eye relief scope, it clears, but ymmv
Building off of a custom barreled action carries some inherent concept flaws in that most people that get those are building precision bench guns, so weight is largely not a concern. This limited my choices to custom actions designed for long range hunting. They're still fine, but they're not designed for routine use, so most of them had noticable flex in the receiver that would shift your poi after repeated shots. Not a problem with a hunting rifle, but for a scout it's not great. I used a carbon fiber 16" barrel with the thinnest profile possible, which exacerbated the poi shift problem alone, even more so if I put a suppressor on it (which I had intended to originally). The chassis was the easiest part of it all, really, since ultralight weight drop in hunting stocks are a dime a dozen for the 700 platform. What I ended up with was a .308 that was difficult to control for followup shots because of the light weight, had serious poi shift problems from repeated shots making only the first few shots acceptably accurate, and an astronomical price tag of (if I recall correctly) around 6k all told. Just not remotely worth it in the end
>shitty wobbly receiver
>composite-overwrap barrel
>hang a weight off the front
ultralight drop in chassis is cool actually, that part always seemed easy
>six million dollars
holy shit
does nobody make a receiver that isn't garbo? the lack of innovation or actual effort in the firearms space is embarrassing sometimes
It's not so much that they're garbo as it is they're meant for something I wasn't using them for. Most ultralight hunting rifles are going to exhibit these symptoms (albeit to a much more reasonable extent) because follow up shots in long range hunting are very uncommon. However, ditching the requirement for an autisticly lightweight rifle in favor of a more reasonable and practical 6.5-7lbs weight range, your options open up immensely and you don't have to sacrifice practicality so much. Carbon wrapped barrels are very stiff for their weight which makes them ideal in the right profile, and lightweight actions like the mausingfield, while a more middling option for weight, are simply bomb proof tack drivers
>follow up shots are uncommon
you still need to be able to sight your rifle in without the PoI shifting randomly, nobody would buy them if they were that shitty
I think your composite-wrapped barrel was a pile of junk, the same way they've always been
Sight ins would be 3 shot groups. Ya, the composite wrapped barrel was junk because it was way too thin, but that's what I asked for so shitty is what I got. But properly profiled, they're great. Not without their drawbacks
Post your neck with ruler
Idgi. How can you not bolt the rifle without unsholdering it?
You’re playing a conscript
O sure, I just meant in general. If I recall red orchestra 2 did it right
I know their reason (the scout rifle concept xreators) for bolt action is "more reliable" but if putting down charging animals at close range is a serious question why not use either a semi-auto or switch to a large caliber sidearm?
>but if putting down charging animals at close range is a serious question why not use either a semi-auto or switch to a large caliber sidearm?
consooomers
they dismissed semi-auto as "too heavy" at that current time
technology has progressed a little bit
Because the concept is severely dated. It was conceptualized in an era where short semi-automatic rifles were uncommon, unreliable, very expensive, or a combination of these. Now it's completely flipped and you can buy an M&P10 for a few hundred less than a Ruger Scout, and like $800 less than a Steyr Scout. The AR is now the "every man's rifle".
what's the weight on an AR-10? 8 pounds for the M&P10, which actually okay that's not bad
anybody not going with an LR-308 in 2023 for their scout rifle is retarded
Why? A bolt can get you a 5.9 lbs rifle. I'm not saying the ar10 is too heavy or not a good choice, just that the assumption that semi automatic is necessarily better is false. As it happens, I don't like the ergonomics of the ar for carrying in the woods either
>a bolt can get you a 5.9 pound rifle
okay but where can I buy one
the SFAR at least is available and weighs a little over 7 pounds
You'd have to build it custom, and honestly it wouldn't be a very good rifle. I built one years ago from a barreled action and to get it that light you just had to make too many compromises. 6.5-6.9 is a much more realistic weight and is about as light as you'd want to go anyway, I just meant bolts can shave a ton of you want to. Those can be had in stuff like the sig cross or MPR
what sort of compromises?
break it down for me, I'm interested now
My point is that the advantages aren't there anymore either way. Ruger offers the SFAR for cheaper than their Scout and it's actually lighter.
I don't think saving 1 pound is worth the degradation in performance for the concept, and the "Scout Rifle" concept was about far more points than just weight, and again it was conceptualized in the early 80's by king gigaboomer Jeff Cooper (PUB).
Jeff Cooper was correct a lot of the time, but only for his time. Technology and the firearms market has changed.
>I don't think saving 1 pound is worth it
Alright, fair, but that doesn't tell me why semi automatic and worse ergos (admittedly subjective but fuggin fight me) are necessarily better.
I actually still agree with you in a sense, they're just not Jeff Cooper's specific reasons. I mean a bolt scout rifle could be better in the following ways:
>I just like it (based)
>more of a sporting gun and only a fighting gun in an absolute last ditch sense
>degraded ammo quality or varying ammo or something
>gay laws banning good alternatives
There's probably a few more.
I could never use a bolt in close quarters effectively in Hunt and Tannenberg so I just gave up and carried a single shot and spam handguns when close
t. someone who doesn't live in the woodlands
excuse me if I've got my terminology wrong, but I thought the concept a brush gun is not synonymous with scout rifle. brush gun meaning "shoots a large caliber, high energy cartridge (such as 45-70) so that even if you have to shoot through brush the trajectory won't be thrown off as much by hitting branches due to the heavy bullet's inertia".
whereas scout rifle is just that concept by that one guy. light, full rifle cartridge and whatever else.
>brush gun shoots large caliber to defeat brush
this isn't what a brush gun is. It shoots a large caliber because larger bores are more efficient with short barrels, allowing a more compact rifle. as you don't need high velocity, high BC bullets for the brush.
You and
are both correct. Another aspect of brush guns is needing to stop large/dangerous game very quickly because you stumble upon them at close distances in, ya know, the brush
What’s the difference between a 200$ “scout” rifle and a 700 scout rifle?
Asking for a friend?
With one, you should have bought an AR-15, and with the other, you should have bought an AR-15
why not a sfar then? Same price, weight, longer range and more power
The newer bolt actions will shoot circles around your $200 shot out and Bubba'd up SMLE while shooting much less expensive and easier to source rounds (unless it's one of the .308 Ishapores or a similar conversion) and being much cheaper and easier to maintain.
Even a $200 cheapo modern hunting rifle like the Savage Axis will outshoot most milsurp boltguns because of the massive advances in materials, making precision machning both more precise and cheaper since the heyday of bolt-action military rifles and not having a billion rounds ran through it and only being half-assed cleaned and abused by some unmotivated conscript like the milsurp rifles all were.
Milsurp rifles are cool but they were taken out of service and surplussed for a reason.
It’s an ishapore so 308
I’d heard of the low by modern standards accuracy but it probably wouldn’t meaningfully matter at the range scout rifles were meant to be used
Also I hear K98 are pretty accurate, even by modern standards
Not a standard off-the-rack K98.
Typically non-sniper Mauser service rifles are 2-4 MOA.
The only off-the-rack bolt action service rifle that where an average one even comes close to the accuracy of even cheap modern hunting boltguns is the K31 which is long and heavy even compared to other bolt action service rifles and the cheap surplus 7.5 Swiss ammo is dried up now so it's not really a good scout rifle candidate.
>is the K31 which is long and heavy
I can’t handle heavy and long distance walks
Look at you drinking the marketing koolaid. The K98 isn’t as accurate because it fired military ammo and had the full length military stocks. There are plenty of 100 year old Mauser sporters that shoot as good as a new gun with modern ammo.
K98 is what you specified, not the Mauser action in general.
I don't doubt that there are old immaculately maintained fancy bespoke masterwork Mauser civilian hunting rifles that could compete with modern boltguns.
They're a whole different beast in terms of accurizing and build quality compared to a random mass-produced and heavily used Mauser service rifle and were several times more expensive.
You have to compare new to new. You can’t compare a rusty Russian capture to a new gun.
But if you take a pre war military k98 and free floated it and fed it match ammo I bet it would shoot MOA.
Fuck there’s stock Swedish Mausers that shoot around MOA, I’ve seen sporters shoot sub MOA including one from 1899.
All that I guess just to say guns aren’t getting better, but ammo and scopes are.
Most of the guns you speak of were built on military actions, with civilian barrels and triggers
Those civilian barrels and triggers make a bigger difference than the action when it comes to accuracy.
Military service rifle barrels are typically manufactured with a focus on long-term durability and handling faster fire rates, a wider variance in ammo and longevity to handle higher round counts between cleanings with accuracy a secondary concern beyond the minimum to meet specs.
Military service rifle triggers are typically intentionally made with a heavier than necessary pull weight and looser tolerances to help prevent accidental discharges and improve reliability when the mechanism is dirty which usually means the pull is a lot mushier/grittier/sloppier/less consistent than the triggers on comparable civilian firearms.
Ditto bulk military ammo vs. smaller batch civilian ammo. You don't need to waste time and effort making standard military ammo super accurate because you typically have multiple shooters engaging a given target at the same time and only one out of those many rounds fired needs to hit.
Recommend one
Preferably light weight and not too expensive
A 100 year old Mauser sporter? Those are collectible individual items, I can’t recommend a specific model, there were hundreds of shops making them in Germany and the UK
I’m retarded and don’t have much experience w rifles
>handy brush gun still capable at reasonable distances
Euros look at us funny when it comes to barrel length. Not doing long range precision hole punching? Go for it.
Cheap LPVO on the factory rail is going to be real bad in terms of eye relief. Consider cheap burris 2-7x scout scope or something like that. Try the action before you buy it, my ruger american has the shittiest feeling bolt throw I've ever experienced.
>The LGS has a very tempting joog deal (about $700 after all fees) on a new .308 Ruger Scout Rifle with a finish like picrel.
uhhh buy it because normal SRP is a >1k. Sell it later.
You're not really going to get much more out of it than a $400 Ruger American. I doubt there's ever going to be a situation where the removable magazine comes in handy so if you buy it, it's really just for the irons.
Scout rifles and bolt action brush guns follow firmly into the category of "retarded but it still works" there are generally better choices, any weight savings/oal savings versus a shotgun or autoloading rifle are miniscule compared to the practical benefits should you actually need to use the thing for self defense. That being said if you can connect with the thing and fire it quickly it'll still probably work fine. Plus, they are kinda cool and bolt guns are fun, and a fun cool gun in a cheapish caliber(for a bolt gun) that sorta has a practical use isnt really a bad buy as long as you have disposable income for it.
OP like BBCs, Big Bear Cartidges
It was my first gun ever and it's still my favorite. It's not a glamorous piece but for 700 it is absolutely worth it.
it weighs 7.1 pounds and has an overall length of 37 inches you dumb fudd. for less weight and the same length you could get an M16A1 clone or a Ruger SFAR (which is also in .308)
fuck that dumb retard nagger fudd jeff cooper. him and his consequences have been a disaster for firearms culture
>My plan is to throw a cheaper LPVO like the new Primary Arms 1-6x Nova Gen 4
just making sure you know you need to get a long eye relief scope if you're gong to put it that far forwards
I have this rifle. I used the irons for a bit as they are decent. I took off the birdcage because it was stupid. I replaced it with a JP brake, which was effective. I then played with the idea of a forward mounted holographic because I had the shit laying around, and it wasn't working. I went back to the irons but after getting a. 44 Henry, I got a vortex scout scope and it has a purpose again. The bolt throw, eye relief, and scope height on the forward rail are such that I don't have to lose cheek weld when cycling. In this configuration, the rifle shines.