Saruman! Sauron! Where are you?! We have only one Nazgula and 80% shortages in the stock of burning oil. How are we supposed to storm Minas Tirith? How many more orcs must die on the Pelennor Fields?
Saruman! Sauron! Where are you?! We have only one Nazgula and 80% shortages in the stock of burning oil.
racist
Nobody would dehumanize and call Russians orcs if they didn't constantly act exactly like it.
>Nobody would dehumanize and call Russians orcs if they didn't constantly act exactly like it.
Ukrainians use "orc" as a euphemism to the Russo-slavic "PidOR" which they actually say in the videos. It means "gay" in Russian.
Can't have the good guys appear homophobic to the liberal west after all.
You misunderstood
It's dehumanising for Orks to be compared to Russians
Nah, the orks had a great reason for being monsters. Monsters still, but at least they had that going for them
For being a Christian allegory, orcs always felt odd. Eru should be able to redeem them. Are they twisted Elves with sentience? Or robots made by Melkor?
Demons are cast into the pit of fire to burn, anon.
That's not true. This whole orc thing started because of the Russian LOTR fanfics.
>Russian LOTR fanfics
the fuck?
It's not.
>the fuck?
Look up "The Last Ringbearer", then look at it again as at a vatnik cope.
Here’s my favorite bit from it
>they had
>splotch
>congealing
>calmly
>easily
>South Army
This is almost physically painful to read.
this is a fan translation from Russian
by now GPT4 probably could do a better job
>frequently cited as something for westerners to read to understand the Russian view of their self, their country and the world
can I get a summary of what we can learn about Russians from it?
I'd like to read it and I know I'm leaning on you lot, but I really don't have time
or is it just basically "woe are we, we're not really badguys"?
Russians think they are a special nation, ordained by god to rule the world. They want to rule with fear and might, because soft power is for cucks who have no armies to back up their words.
On top of that they also see suffering as the integral, if not the most important, aspect of life. It is a virtue to suffer in Russia and a life without suffering is a life wasted. They think it increases your chance of going to heaven if you suffer long enough, which is why they rarely want to change their living conditions, even if they are aware that they can be changed. As such, when they inflict suffering upon others, Russians see it as a noble action worthy of praise. You helped the person you hurt/raped/killed become more virtuous and pure, granting them an easier passage to the afterlife. This is why when they conquer the world (which is destined to happen) they plan to spread not prosperity or wealth but suffering, because they see it as the greatest gift there is.
They absolutely love Stalin’s Russia not only because it was feared but also because it was a machine that constantly produced suffering on an industrial scale both within Russia and outside of it. It was the most virtuous and beautiful state of them all, helping so many reach their full potential in suffering.
Why did Russia become like this? True and real origin of their thinking is unknown, but it was already predominant among Russia during Ivan the Terrible’s time. Occam’s Razor says that it is a coping mechanism for being a tributary state to the mongols. The only way they could cope with the suffering that befell them is to turn it into something desirable, at least in their own heads.
That’s the ultimate depth of the Russian soul. An unhealthy thirst for suffering and the subconscious wish to inflict it upon others. This is the unironic conclusion of Dostoyevsky’s lifelong soul-searching journey. He gaslit himself into finding this aspect of Russia beautiful and holy.
>it is a coping mechanism
sounds like it
kek
Fortunately, there are means that will soon exist to terminally maximize suffering within Russia without risk of Russia responding in kind
>or is it just basically "woe are we, we're not really badguys"?
Yes, but also "how the vatnig mind twists the reality to present themselves as the victors no matter what happens, see also "gesture of goodwill".
>Mordorians
>Orocuen
Kill all russians.
The Last Ringbearer was not a small fanfic, it was a full on sequel to LoTR in which Mordor won at the end of RotK, and also the orcs are obviously Russians. It was quite notable regionally and was, for a while, frequently cited as something for westerners to read to understand the Russian view of their self, their country and the world.
My favorite part of that is the elves becoming full-on Nazis Dirlewangering their way across Mordor. There's probably a good joke about the vatnig obsession with ukronazis and Orcs being corrupted Elves (in Tolkien's original work, not in the fanfic where they're just regular men dehumanized by le evil West) somewhere in there.
>dehumanized by le evil West
What about the Haradrim?Or did the fanfic writer forget that Sauron had actual humans fighting for him?
Ironically, they're only mentioned as backwards savages, while all the Orcs, Trolls, and Goblins are retconned to be perfectly normal humans who just want to be left alone.
Found the passage
>Since then, the fearsome Harad Empire (which had neither a written language nor cities, but plenty of ritual cannibalism, dire black magic, and witch-hunting) had widened its borders considerably. At first the black warriors expanded only to the south and east, but in the last twenty years or so they have turned their gaze north and bit off a significant chunk of Khandian territory, approaching closely to the borders of Umbar, South Gondor, and Ithilien. The Mordorian ambassador at the Emperor’s court sent dispatch after dispatch to Barad-dúr: unless swift measures are taken, soon the civilized states of Central and Western Middle Earth will face an opponent more terrifying than any other – untold multitudes of excellent warriors who know neither fear nor mercy.
Followed by passages about how it was up to cultured Mordorian missionaries to bring them civilization. All the moralizing about 'history written by the victors' and he can't be bothered to make them anything more than a darkest Africa caricature, lmao.
Russians aren't a race, they're a mistake.
Yes.
The resemblance is uncanny
The pale orc
Fake quote by the way.
I dunno about that exact quote, but Frodo certainly says something similar to Sam in RotK, in one of the Cirith Ungol chapters if I get it right.
>"The Shadow that bred can only mock, it cannot make: not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them."
Why do his ear curve out like that? They genuinely look like goblins/orcs
This is shopped, right? There's no way it's that close
Life imitating art.
closer imo
Great game. Great character
god damn it.
>Arty's back on the menu boys!
>RUSSIA IS WINNING! TRUST THE PLAN!
More like picrel.
Weekly world news was kino. I discovered it back in middle school because the library had a bunch of compilation books. I feel sorry for anyone that thinks it was
*thinks it was serious
Nothing else brightened up the drive home from Foodtown as a kid quite like the Weekly World News.
>This is what's calling you a mutt online.
I laughed op if it makes you happy
I like. Here's your you.
>How many more orcs must die on the Pelennor Fields?
Yes
kek, reminds me of this one from the very start of the war
Another one
Why did Saruman continue making his orcs' pointy ears resemble elvish ears, when his orcs have no connection to Mordor orcs, which actually were mutilated elves mostly from the first age?
they are an of shoot form of orcs, all orcs trace back to the elves corrupted and twisted by melkor
Were there any actual First Age/former elves orcs left by the time of the War of the Ring?
We have no idea since the lifespan of Orcs are unknown. They may have been immortal like the elves, but seeing how violent and chaotic orc society is, it's doubtful that any one orc could survive for so long.
>We have no idea since the lifespan of Orcs are unknown.
If elves were pretty much immortal (unless those who got killed or extremely depressed), then EtOs were almost immortal too, no?
I don't know much of a tolkien lore, but iirc it is possible to renounce immortality, which wouldn't be feasible if it was simple tied to one being elf.
So, elves being immortal doesn't equal orces being immortal, even if they were elves once.
Strictly there were only two ways to do so. First was being born a half elf, and choosing mortality, but you'd still have a very long lifespan. Second would be full elves just giving up what they had to be with a mortal Man, see the saga of Beren and Luthien and Aragorn and Arwen.
Wasn't mortality Eru's gift to men in particular?Whereas elves get stuck in a cosmic waiting room forever?
yes, Mortality, the Doom of Men, was considered the Gift of Men. When Men die, they go somewhere beyond the confines of the world that doesn't get elaborated on in the legendarium. Elves when they die go to Mandos and then get re-embodied, and choose to stay either in Valinor or go back to middle earth. Well, or they would, if the end of the War of the Rings didn't mean the fading of the elves wouldn't be complete either, so they left the world to the Men and went back to Valinor instead.
Yes. IIRC, there is speculation from Elven scholars that when Men die they go to Eru's side while Elves are stuck on Arda/Valinor until the end of the world. Death itself wasn't supposed to be a bad thing. IIRC the fear of death was put into men by Morgoth soon after they awakened, as to stunt their potential and make them more easy to corrupt.
orc society is pretty chaotic and most don't live that long anyway.
Nah, it's obvious whatever tortures and devilries were inflicted to turn them into orcs would also strip them of their immortality. Or think about the Numenoreans and how their life span kept shrinking the more greedy/obsessed/seething/nasty they became. There is nothing fair left in the orcs.
This is all moot, because while he toyed with the idea, Tolkien stated that orcs were never elves. Melkor can't create anything truly new, so they were something, but they were not elves.
>when his orcs have no connection to Mordor orcs,
They do.Uruks were first bred in Mordor during the third age(T.A. 2475) .
Proof?
Appendix A ,GONDOR AND THE HEIRS OF ANÁRION
probably wouldn't be worth the effort to breed it out, more important to put bodies on the field than fix some small thing that almost no one would notice let alone care about.
Orcs being mutilated elves was actually retconned by Tolkien (he retconned the origin of the orcs like 5 times).
The final draft was that the orcs were tortured and mutilated animals.
Tolkien never managed to decide what he wanted the orcs' origins to be, he was struggling with the lore he built for his universe (which states that God and only God can bestow true life and everyone else just makes automatons), his dissatisfaction with the idea that orcs were elves (probably thought it too simple), and his own belief that a race couldn't just be inherently evil
here's one of mine
My lotr knowledge has slipped from time, what happened in Mirkwood? When the trees ate all of them?
That was Fangorn.
Sauron used his fortress of Dol Guldur in Mirkwood as a base from which to attack Lothlorien, The Woodland Realm and Erebor, thus opening a northern front in the War of the Ring. It was generally a stalemate as Galadriel held an elven ring of power and the other two were under left under siege and thus unable to send aid to Gondor and Rohan. The stalemate was broken after Sauron's final defeat and Galadriel used her magic to raze Dol Guldur to the ground.
The attack on Lothlorien was a feint. The Orcs left Dol Guldur as a gesture of goodwill.
Ahh that makes sense, so the Polish are the wood elves then?
Like half of these are true though.
Democrats do have corporate interests in Ukraine
The Ghost of Kyiv was retarded and made up
Russians should still die and the real heroes of Ukraine are unironic fascists and God bless them but this is shitlib cope
Show me a country with no corporate interests and I'll show you a pointless shithole in the ass end of nowhere
it is corruption suitable only for ~~*Russian oligarchs*~~ the type of shit Democrats have been on
I don't conflate shitlibs with Ukrainian heroes
Redditors, Democrats, and other shitlibs in generally are mentally incapable of understanding the nature of the conflict in Ukraine or what grievances are actually being settled between the last honest Rus and the Eurasian orcs from the east.
I think we'll have the good ending when it's all said and done
It's honestly sad that legitimate corruption and lies from the Ukrainians cannot be properly handled because the orc must be defeated first.
Why? How does corruption in Ukraine affect the average American? Why should we give a shit?
Because American politicians were getting bribes and kickbacks from Ukraine, dumbshit.
Unless you’re a fed and this is some FCPA propaganda bullshit
Are you an idiot?
If you give 10 billion in aid and only 2 billion is ending up being used on the enemy, the results you get would be very suboptimal
corruption is absolutely the worst because not only do you get bad performance, you wouldn't even know why, and you'd be stuck wondering if the tactics are wrong when all the while they might not even have been properly employed or at all
It's no secret that Ukraine had a massive corruption problem before the war and are still struggling to uproot it. Most actual Ukrainians view integration with the west, the EU, and NATO so positively because they see it as oversight that can actually stamp down on that problem. There's already been multiple high profile cases of government and military officials being canned for corruption post war, and conditioning aid on inspections and oversight has gone unopposed. It may be a long time before Ukraine is genuinely brought up to western standards, but the claims about every weapon sent being sold off to Russia are too retarded to even dignify. It also doesn't hurt that Ukrainian corruption statistics are like their aids statistics. It's a lot easier to identify when there's a near 1:1 correlation with the population of Russian diaspora.
Ah yes, thank you for your input Mr Eugontmrow from somewhere, far away
>Grim Wormtongue poisoned the mind of Théoden King by... praising Eomer
>The Ghost of Kyiv
I love how this is always brought up as the height of Western misinformation. Some facebook meme from the first week of the war that got ridiculed by everyone soon as it emerged. The Uki side seems to have a pretty good track record otherwise
Snake Island was also incessantly brought up until they couldn't anymore because the name would only remind people of goodwill gestures instead, lmao.
>pensioner shoots down sukhoi with a shotgun
That one was less "deliberate misinformation campaign" and more "the Daily Mail is a rag"
(you)
They were elves once, taken by the dark powers, tortured and mutilated. A ruined and terrible form of life. And now... perfected.
>A ruined and terrible form of life.
>I didn't NEED Minas Tirith anyway!
WHERE IS THE MEAT!?!?
>We started the special military operation in Gondor in order to avoid a future conflict with Gondor
I just found out this bro was played by the gyro copter guy from Mad Max
if you're THAT new to LOTR trivia, I recommend watching the BTS. it's a hoot.
I will, thanks
>I want them armed and ready to march within TWO WEEKS
>But my lord there are too many, they cannot all be armed in toime
>BUT MY LORD THE TANKS. THEY DON'T HAVE THE FUEL....
>The forest of Chernobyl lies on our doorstep, DRIVE IT
maximum kek
this was mine during the first counterattack, so long ago
>We cannot get out. We cannot get out. They have taken the bridge and pontoons. Ivan and Vadim and Stepan fell there bravely while the rest retreated to the Chamber of Izyum. We are still ho{ldin}g...but hope …Pyotr's party went five days ago but today only four returned. The kotel is up to the river at Borov... The Chandelier in the Sky took Pyotr--we cannot get out. The end comes soon. We hear memes, memes in the deep. They are coming.
>The markings... it's some kind of greek, i cant read it
>One banan to rule them all, one banan to find them, One banan to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them; In the Land of Moscow where the shadows lie.
but cyrillic isnt greek
That's the point, Frodo doesn't know what it is
Shit comparison. Sauron's forces got logistics down to pat. Fucking fielding 10,000 already mindbroke the minds of men & elves
>fielding 10,000 already mindbroke the minds of men & elves
Only because they weren't in war footing
The Rohirrim went to Pelennor with 6,000 cavalry and that was at most 40% ("less than half of what I hoped for") of what Theoden expected to muster, AFTER already losing half the standing army at Westfold and getting torn up at Helm's Deep
at full strength the Rohirrim must be at least 15,000 and more
In the book, full strength of the Rohirrim on paper was 12k. After Helms Deep they stood at 10k, and Theoden only sends 6k to ensure his lands are protected. Had Eowyn stayed she would have commanded 4k Rohirrim plus whoever else could be armed in a worst case scenario.
Did you forget about Erkenbrand's infantry?
I did in fact. I've never seen numbers on how much he had, but yeah, that would have been part of the forces defending the homeland.
The Atlas puts him at 1000 men, referencing TT147.
It also lists 6000 Rohirrim for the Pelennor, referrencing RK123.
6k was all those that could be mustered at Dunharrow by the time Theoden went there. He couldn't afford to wait for the rest to gather after seeing the Red Arrow because the survival of Minas Tirith was litterally a matter of days/hours.
The fact that Rohan was only able to mobilize half of what was expected is itself proof of their terrible logistics. How could Theoden King ever hope to conduct large-scale expeditionary warfare when the Rohirrim can't even get their men and material to the staging grounds?
Theoden should have mobilized earlier instead of spending his time fuming at his own fuck up and waiting until he got the signal from Gondor.
>How many more orcs must die
all of them
Compare the two:
Uruk-hai
russian orc
if they had just attacked while rohan was tied up at helm's deep
Saruman jumped the gun instead of waiting to coordinate his attack. Sauron also had to rush his army to war in the end.
Saruman was explicitly trying to rush his invasion so he could grab the ring and backstab Sauron. Sauron thought the ring was with Aragorn and didn't see a need to rush because of it. Even after he lost at Minas Tirith, his eventual victory was still inevitable other than the ring.
>Mordor still hasn't taken Osgiliath
>Meduseld was a feint
smoke rising from mount doom supply depot! the smoker strikes again
>Ah, Sauronman and Liartongue, my most trusted advisors
Shoigu and Gerasimov are the Team Evil-versions of Pippin and Merry.
>I serve Eru Illuvatar
Cringe. Don't believe valarhomo propaganda. Morgoth and Sauron, not Eru and Manwe okay?
>take your kingfoil
masterpiece
>the school and children's hospital walls are too strong, nothing can breach it!
GRAD will breach it
kek
GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD! GRAD!
Underrated.
GET A FEINT GOING
BAYRAKTAR!
PO-TA-TOES
PEEL EM
PEEL EM
PEEL EM
PEEL EM
KEEP PEELIN EM
PEEL EM
PEEL EM
PEEL EM
got an audible chuckle out of me
Toss me!
VEH DEH VEH
underrated
good one anon
>A NEW POWER IS RISING
>TRUST IN ITS PLAN
>IN TWO WEEKS THE LAND WILL BE STAINED WITH THE BERETS OF OUR MEN
>MARCH TO KIEV, LEAVE ALL FUEL BEHIND
>TO A SPECIAL OPERATION!!!
Reeling, gasping, taken over the edge, into Madness!
Bananaless
Ironically, the armies of Mordor were very well-equipped and supplied. Sauron made sure even the orcs had everything they needed. Ie, rations, medicine, roadside cisterns for drinking water, etc.
According to the dialogue in Cirith Ungol, he even gave each orc its individual number in his armies. He also had slaves working the inner sea of Nurnen and encouraged the development of agriculture as the volcanic soil turned southern Mordor into a veritable agricultural oasis. Sure, it was all done to feed his war-machine, but Sauron knew his shit when it came to logistics and planning. Putin wishes he had even an ounce of Sauron's logistical skills.
Friendly reminder the russians even wrote a hatefic of LOTR where Mordor and the orcs are portrayed as the good guys, unlimited source of keks.
I still take a second to remember how, before the invasion of Ukraine, I actually bought some gear from Russia for my AK setup (just sling and magpouches)
Brand was/is literally 'Mordor Tac'
Tolkien rightfully viewed the Islamic and Mongol east as the greatest threat to western freedom and Christendom (next to internal corruption and despair of course)
I've read it too in highschool. Years later I found out that russia gets called 'mordor' a lot in Europe and some r*ssians started wearing it as a badge of honor, kinda like "stoopid euros call us orks and mordor because they much afraid"
Their armour is weak under the cage, around the cage.
(You)
(Thou)
Why are you western bastards so fucking smug?
Because despite our many crimes and failures, we can still say unironically that we're the best culture developed in human history and the example to follow for all others.
Payback for decades of R*ssian braggodocio.
This is what it feels like to have the chickens come home to roost, pidor.
>Why are you western bastards so fucking smug?
Because our armor is as tenfold shields, our airborne wings stir the heavens like a mighty storm, our breath melts cold iron mail as if it were frost, and we're *literally* resting atop a glittering hoard of treasure so vast your people cannot even conceive of it.
Oh, and it's spelled "Smaug", ryssä.
I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet.
>Do you know Far Harad has O-L-I-P-H-A-U-N-T-S?
>only one Nazgula
Nazgul. If you mean the things they ride, those are called Fellbeasts.
Oh anon ...
>tortured and mutilated animals
>capable of speech and reasoning
Should've stuck with the elves origin.
The problem is that if orcs were elves then orcs have a soul, and thus have free will, which means that there should be good orcs.
Who says there weren't? Didn't Aragorn "pardon" them later and let them fuck off to some mountains?
It wasn't orcs, was it? I thought it was the evil Men who served Sauron that got pardoned.
I seem to recall that it was both, he certainly didn't have them hunted to extinction. I don't care enough to look it up though.
No? The only thing we know is the dwarves drove out the orcs from their mountains, like Moria and Gundobad. There isn't much info on the fourth age since the story Tolkien wanted to make about it was never finished.
>where do orcs go then when they die?
They just stop existing. They have no soul.
>Are they bound to Arda like the elves, since they are actually some form of elf?
No, the orcs being elves part was retconned.
>This was the text Christopher used for his edition of The Silmarillion (chapter 3), although while revising the Annals, his father wrote a note in the margin: "Alter this. Orcs are not Elvish".[12] It is notable however, that the text itself is not sure about the origin, but only presents what "the wise of Eressëa" held, which might not be true. This in-world aspect is also used in another essay, in which Tolkien wrote that although Morgoth could not beget anything, the Eldar believed he had bred Orcs by corrupting Elves and Men.[13]
Although Tolkien still played with the possibility of orcs having some origin on elves or men, but the issue was never fully fleshed out.
>Tolkien still mentions the terrible possibility of an Elvish strain in the Orcs. This would result on them having fëar, which after death would have to wait in Mandos till the End. But as Christopher comments, this is a direct contradiction with what had been stated about the Orcs being nothing more than "talking beasts".[15]
Do keep in mind, orcs being corrupted elves wasn't Tolkien's first draft. Originally the orcs were made out of earth and mud.
>...for all that race were bred by Melko of the subterranean heats and slime. Their hearts were of granite and their bodies deformed.[1]
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Orcs/Origin
On the Orcs, it could be that they were just animals or trees, insects or any form 0f life that wasn’t real people (the Children of Illuvatar). They have intelligence, names, feelings, hopes, etc, so that viewpoint may be a little strained. But, if Aule couldn’t create real, self-aware people then Melkor certainly couldn’t. So, it might be an Ungoliant situation— no one knows where they came from, but perhaps manifestations of Melkor’s discordant notes Illuvatar mixed into Arda. Possibly Melkor actually invested a portion of his own will and thought into the Orcs to creat a facsimile of independent life.
where do orcs go then when they die? Are they bound to Arda like the elves, since they are actually some form of elf?
Maybe the orcs had freewill but they unanimously chose to be evil. I mean, the odds of flipping a coin a million times and only getting heads is low, but it's not zero.
The elf explanation at least made sense.
Many animals are capable of speech in the Legendarium, such as Manwe's eagles.