S-400

All jokes aside, why is this thing incapable of defending itself? I was led to believe that while not on parity with Patriot, it at least fills a similar role. How the frick can this thing not shoot down incoming missiles made during the gulf war? What exactly is so fancy about ATACMS? S-400 is fricking billed as anti ballistic missile. I remember 20 months when everyone said ATACMS would be useless and shot down en masse

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Probably something to do with russians overselling the capability of its radar, and shit mathematics that go into its track, intercept, and kill phase.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Poor maintenance
    >Insufficient training
    >Insufficient crewing
    >Russians overselling its capability to get buyers (even though they already have S300)
    >Crew were drunk/high
    And if we want to get a bit more absurd
    >The battery was out of fuel for their generators
    >The crew was busy raping
    >The crew was busy being raped
    >The crew's CO made them turn off the system to clean the radar (as if lol)

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    You can't have a large conscript military with an economy smaller than the Netherlands and expect your SAM crews to be competent.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I've literally never seen 9M96Es during this war, and that's a big part of their supposed self-defense capability AFAIK.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      People misunderstand what the S-400 actually is. Isn't their fault because Russia lies out of it's ass with it's claims but it's a direct replacement for the S-300P and it's capabilities are dependent on it's missile loadout and they way it doctrinally fits into Russian AD matters as well. Russian doctrine specifically seeks to counter American aircraft and ALCMs. Technically speaking the S-400 capable of BMD when deployed with the specific interceptors - but that's the problem, it doesn't deploy with them like this anon said nor does it face a threat from MRBM/IRBMs the way the US does so the priority is lower. The S-300V is supposed to be optimized for BMD with separate missiles that IIRC aren't deployed for S-400s. I assume OP made this in the context of S-400s getting destroyed by ATACMs. Russia is slow at adapting to situations on the fly so it's likely they failed to deploy the required interceptors despite months of signaling prior to ATACMs delivery, and/or they don't have enough of their high end interceptors to provide effective defense. Russia also lies about shit so if the first two reasons are incorrect it's possible they just have a dogshit interceptor where BMD is concerned.

      Beyond this it doesn't appear that TOR or Pantsir are performing as well as they should and a functional IADS requires other systems complimenting each other effectively. Ukraine doesn't have the capability to saturate Russian AD the same way the US could, it's having success partially because western weapons are performing well, and partially because Russia has failed to implement it's IADS doctrine adequately against a BROAD range of targets (cruise/ballistic/drone/EW). Considering they shoot S-300 missiles like artillery they likely have way too many anti-aircraft optimized interceptors and very few BMD. Combine that with underperforming short/ medium range systems and general incompetence/system defects.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's like puccians are lying about their equipment...
        No, no it can't be, must be something else.

        What boggles my mind is yesterday they finally tried using an ancient 14.5mm ZPU-4 to shoot at a drone and it worked, like they somehow didn't notice Ukraine doing it to theirs for two years.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >they finally tried using an ancient 14.5mm ZPU-4 to shoot at a drone and it worked
          They shot several hundred rounds directly into city, under very shallow angle, to destroy one drone. Those apes will accidentally kill dozen of Russians using this tactic

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          nobody is going to use s400 to shoot down drones you moron, they would be out of s400 missiles in a few day.
          > like they somehow didn't notice Ukraine doing it to theirs for two years.
          ukraine is using gepards you moron. also ukraine has a sophisticated system to detect drones that russia didn't need until now.

          https://i.imgur.com/01aEjI6.jpeg

          Overall, I dont think the missile or even the control system is shit, probably just the software. After all, the Russians do still have a sophisticated rocket development sector, even if it almost solely relies on cold war era rocketry.

          [...]

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Ukraine is also taking down Iranian drones with rifles and 100+ year old Maxims you burger worshiping manure fetishist.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              if russian air defense is so shit, why can't ukraine fly jets?
              can you answer that you fricking moron?

              the problem is detecting them you moron, not shooting them down. lots of drones still go through.
              >moron sees one propaganda video
              >that means ukraine is shooting down all drones with rifles

              >ukraine is using gepards you moron
              I've seen Ma Deuce shoot down Russian rocket, also Russoids have shilkas

              >I've seen one video
              do you morons not understand you only see ukraine propaganda videos?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >do you morons not understand you only see ukraine propaganda videos?
                And that is going to undestroy that rocket because?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                I am very demoralize sirs we Americans must do the needful and stop supporting Nazi Ukraine forced dabbing bleach concentrate camping.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >the problem is detecting them you moron, not shooting them down.
                Except Ukraine does detect them. They have a nation wide system that uses a simple app that effectively turns the entire population into spotters, combined with NATO AWACs every person with a MG, AA gun, rifle or even shotgun in the drones gets a alert. They know how when and what direction it is coming and shoot them down.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >why can't ukraine fly jets?
                Are Storm Shadows materializing out of thin air?

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >Countless s400 carnage videos
                >Black sea fleet bingo
                >Refinery bingo
                >Muh propaganda
                Seethe mald etc etc

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >why can't ukraine fly jets?
                Then who's launching the Storm Shadows and SCALPs? Ghost of Kiev?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >ukraine is using gepards you moron
            I've seen Ma Deuce shoot down Russian rocket, also Russoids have shilkas

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        There were a few Telegrams from last year pointing out that Russian SAM systems have experienced terrible attrition rates and now gaps are forming on even the main front.
        The main purpose of Ukraine’s drone attacks on Russia proper are to obviously disrupt their infrastructure, but to also cause divides between Civil authorities and the military brass on where they need to protect, the warzone or the homeland.
        Russian Generals were having hissy fits when they put Pantsirs on top of ministerial buildings in Moscow instead of the front. The comrades of senior officers who got killed in HIMARS strikes saw this as an egregious disregard for their safety, and caused tension in Putin’s circle.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >specifically seeks to counter American aircraft and ALCMs
        Then explain this Anon.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's like puccians are lying about their equipment...
    No, no it can't be, must be something else.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Tired of you schizo morons first it was armatard, now warriortard, just shut the frick up already! Board quality can only dip so low, and you are making it so it dips below the lowest low, SAD!

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      This, glad to see janny is starting to do something about this

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The patriot missile system also had issues when it was first employed in combat, see related.
    >A government investigation revealed that the failed intercept at Dhahran had been caused by a software error in the system's handling of timestamps.[85][86] The Patriot missile battery at Dhahran had been in operation for 100 hours, by which time the system's internal clock had drifted by one-third of a second. Due to the missile's speed this was equivalent to a miss distance of 600 meters.
    (Source, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot#Operational_history)

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Overall, I dont think the missile or even the control system is shit, probably just the software. After all, the Russians do still have a sophisticated rocket development sector, even if it almost solely relies on cold war era rocketry.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >I've seen one video of ukraine shooting down a drone with a rifle
    >why isn't russia shooting down drones with rifles when it's so easy
    is this board just moronic children and shills? you have to be a complete moron to base your opinions on one video.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I love that there are kremlin bots camping /k/ waiting for a thread to pop up so they can start their "bbb-but Ukraine!!" spam lmao

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Syria is still a no fly zone
    I don't think Israel got that memo.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Because its practically being used as a stationary defense compared to patriots in Ukraine
    Russia uses them to defend a single air base in a flat forestless peninsula so even if they move it its going to get spotted by spies and drones pretty easily
    It has a wheels for a reason

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >He thinks fricking air defense batteries are supposed to be "mobile" because they have wheels
      Tourism is AIDS.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Last time I checked Syria is still a no fly zone
    >Last time I checked Ukraine is still a fly zone
    I don't think you checked shit lmao

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The real answer is that the base S400 is fine and does what it should (detects targets and fires OK missile), but Russia and literally everyone but the US has not yet integrated their datalinks between all their gear. When you play against Patriot you are playing against an integrated network of radar batteries, AWACS and SATCOM. This gives rapid response, forewarning and better target tracking. China is prioritizing trying to get their own datalink going ATM in a very serious fashion. Thats how big a gap it is

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Not only did F-22s drop bombs in Syria, the S-300 and S-400s also failed to protect against retaliatory strikes against the gas attacks.
    Even if it were a no-fly-zone, what's the point in bragging about it if your foes can just lob standoff munitions at will without being concerned for defenses?

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Probably oversaturated by various drones and missiles.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >oversaturated by various drones and missiles.
      all TELARS in Crimea that got blown up were full of missiles, this is pure stalinium grade cope

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >How the frick can this thing not shoot down incoming missiles made during the gulf war?
    S-400 started development only a few years after ATACMS did, it's not a new system.
    It's easy to talk about the handful of successful strikes, far less so to talk about the failures. It's essentially a retread of the drone bias, you get far more videos of drone strikes than anything else for obvious reasons, which leads people to believe drones are the primary cause of losses.
    Simply put, making qualitative statements about the performance of such systems is clownshoe behaviour because it's impossible to get a full picture of events with open-source information and the closed sources aren't exactly freely disseminating the data.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That said, we seem to get a lot of confirmed ATACMs strikes on Russian sites that are presumably supposed to be protected under S-400's umbrella, and ATACMs missiles are not exactly mass produced so it's not like the Ukrainians are spamming them with wild abandon.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >we seem to get a lot of confirmed ATACMs strikes on Russian sites that are presumably supposed to be protected under S-400's umbrella
        I only remember 2 or 3, Belbek, that helicopter base and I think some other airbase. Though I don't follow strike news that closely.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Polack here - a few years ago our contrarian self proclaimed experts were shilling this system so fricking hard.
    You could have unironically hear takes like "there's no point in investing into air force anymore, as the S-400 in Kaliningrad will deny airspace above almost whole country".
    It the war ever breaks out (I wish zigga would) radar of ever single S-400 battery in Kaliningrad will eat so much cluster that it will look like a fricking fishnet.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Surely they weren't implying the S-400 works through the horizon? What a fricking moronic take, anyone with a basic understanding of radar would call bullshit.

      Patriots are also shit, look how many interceptors missed during the Iranian attack on Israel. The reality is that defensive tech is behind offensive tech right now. S-400 can't reliably stop ATACMS, but Patriots can't reliably stop Russian missiles either.

      >Patriots can't reliably stop Russian missiles either
      homie they spammed a simultaneous strike with cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, Sneed drones and even a Khinzal at the Kyiv Patriot site and it reliably protected itself. Russians threw everything they had at a Patriot trying to kill it and only managed to damage one element of the battery, which was repaired.
      It's not an offensive tech vs defensive tech problem, it's a shooting a bullet with a bullet problem. Interception will always be harder than moving to X,Y,Z coordinate.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Surely they weren't implying the S-400 works through the horizon? What a fricking moronic take, anyone with a basic understanding of radar would call bullshit.
        Yes, they took the advertised 250 mile max range of that one type of S-400 missile and extrapolated it to an impenetrable no fly zone bubble generator. You wouldn't believe the amount of crowing about Finland being unable to scramble their F-18s because glorious puccian S-400 would just shoot them during the initial climb off the runway.

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Apparently it's not as good as PAC-3 but it doesn't mean it's defenseless, otherwise we would see entire fire units wiped out daily as soon as they are detected not just a few losses here and there. My theory is it was designed with 9M96 in mind but they never managed to produce enough of them due to complexity or cost and it isn't widely fielded, that was supposed to be the self-defense missile against GMLRS or HARM type threats
    >ATACMS would be useless and shot down en masse
    we don't know what's the interception success rate, I'm sure it's neither close to 0% or 100% even when using the system suboptimally

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    S-400 is just a S-300 with tweeks and some upgrades. S-300 is an OLD system. It was very good in 70s and 80s but it hasn’t been kept up to date as aggressively as Patriot. If what I read on Dvach (Russian 2ch) is true and it only started tracking the ATACMS 2 minutes out, that means it only acquiring them at the peak of the ATACMS ballistic flight path. That suggests poor radar coverage or a problem signal processing if they only started tracking mid-flight at max altitude. Someone on Dvach blamed just really slow reaction time for old analogue combat systems so with just 2 minutes it takes like 1.5 minutes for the system to be fully spun up and ready for prosecution, and with just 30 seconds or so the window was too short to intercept all targets.

    So it could be that the S-400 as a system is outated and slow — but the real failure was the failure of IADS implementation / management. If the ATACMS had been detected right after launch even with 1.5 minutes of lag time to respond, that’s 2.5 minutes for prosecution instead of 30 seconds and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Maybe the S-400 does in fact have automated systems that move fast but crews don’t trust it due to unreliability and likelihood of shooting down a friendly which seems to be a major problem with them so who knows. Still doesn’t excuse the failure of IADS to detect threats before they were halfway to their target.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Well, a big thing is that Russians have not mastered datalinking and networking to the extent the West has. Western systems like Patriot can be cued off of remote sensors like an AWACS directly beaming target information to the launcher.

      The extent of “early warning” for a Russian launcher is most likely some guy on another battery radioing them something is incoming, but the crew still has to rely on their own native radar to actually engage it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >analogue combat systems so with just 2 minutes it takes like 1.5 minutes for the system to be fully spun up and ready for prosecution
      I don't think so, it should be fully digital, even the oldest S-300 versions. Datalinks within the system and to higher command likewise should be digital, no voice over radio. The displays might be CRTs and the radar might use TWTs or similar vacuum tubes for pulse generation but it shouldn't be a big technical limitation, they can be kept preheated without emitting anything. That's in fact what older soviet short range systems did - emissions off, cued search based on early warning radar detection, engagement and emissions off again, often in less than a minute. If the system really has a one minute reaction time something is seriously wrong or mobiks aren't following the training

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Patriots are also shit, look how many interceptors missed during the Iranian attack on Israel. The reality is that defensive tech is behind offensive tech right now. S-400 can't reliably stop ATACMS, but Patriots can't reliably stop Russian missiles either.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    what does the mast do?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Puts a radar high enough above the ground in case HATO tries to do a high risk trolling operation by flying at treetop level and toss bombing clusters at the SAM site.

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