What's the strategic advantage of having disjointed military rssponsible not to the country but to slecific oligarchs outside the law?
What's the strategic advantage of having disjointed military rssponsible not to the country but to slecific oligarchs outside the law?
What's the strategic advantage of starting threads with "what's the strategic/tactical advantage of X?"
No I'm genuinely wondering, i admit to being a newbie tourist who only started hanging around /k/ once the invasion started but I don't remember this.
It's a clever trick to make any topic /k/ related. The jannies are powerless against it.
oooh, so it's like making thread with inane questions ending in "in your country" on PrepHole, gotcha
>It's a clever trick to make any topic /k/ related. The jannies are powerless against it.
Meanwhile, my thread on Macron openly defending France's relations with Russia & China while calling for an Armistice in Ukraine gets deleted and I get banned without warning for 5 days.
> https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/55014397
> https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/55014397
Yeah, because no one likes you or your gay ideas.
no one cares about france sorry
Might be because your formatting looks like the spam we get in wabes numerous time per day and because you did not provide any links or thoughts in the OP.
And I get banned for starting a thread with troony Trombley picture no matter what its actual subject is
for media not being gun related
It is what it is
Girl Trombley is a cute. Would lift out of her trailer park and help her with her PTSD/10
clearly /misc/ issue
i would ban you for a month
shut up frog
>France advises Ukraine to unconditionally surrender
It's like when you state you intend to commit a horrible, gorey crime but then add "in minecraft" so the cops can't do anything about it.
just report the off topic threads as off topic please. This is clearly a /misc/ thread
Hmm, authoritarianism isn't working let's give feudalism a try.
-Putin
That's how feudalism emerged once Rome collapsed.
Ukies beat Russia so bad they regressed back to feudalism.
You can't make this shit up.
>regressed
Well it was tsarist autocracy before the war.
Holy shit. Putin really is a royalist after all.
His oligarchs will be his boyars and he will be the new Tsar of his decrepit backwater empire.
Feudalism and authoritarianism are the same thing, although conservatives prefer feudalism.
Frick no.
You didn't fall for the limited government meme, did you?
They just want to keep government out of the hands of the people.
Absolutely no. European monarchs spent few centuries tyring to trasition form feudalism to authoritarianism.
You underestimate how weak can king be under feudalism.
>You underestimate how weak can king be under feudalism
Exactly. A feudal country isn't really a 'state' as we would understand it. It's an arrangement of personal relationships and oaths of loyalty that together make something like a ruling organisation. The man at the top is only as secure as his connections further along the branches.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_monarchy
This was built in Europe only during the final century of feudalism and has more to do with the rise of efficient bureaucracy than feudal privileges, which inherently collided with the power of monarch and for thousand years resulted in decentralization of countries. Absolute monarch if anything tried to curb don on feudalism to bypass the nobility and harness the commoners into working for the state rather than for local lord,
Feudalism is a subset of authoritarianism, and is incompatible with many other subsets of authoritarianism (such as absolute monarchy and totalitarianism)
What is the difference between globalism, authoritarianism and feudalism except of the scale?
Lolno. Feudalism is a dogshit system for any ruler. Modern capitalism could only grow out of a system of centralized authority, IE Absolute Monarchies, where the government answered to a single man who established a government made up of ambitious middle-class administrators, rather than the government being made up of a loose assembly of local strong-men answering, in theory, to a King, but who could, if they banded together, turn against the king and cripple the country if their interests were in any way hurt by royal policy.
Sweet summer child,
>Feudalism
is essentially how large human organisations function to this day. Heads of state are as beholden to party politics today as kings of yore were to their feudal supporters.
>Modern capitalism could only grow out of a system of centralized authority
Exactly the opposite; capitalism is a product of DEcentralised authority, in which competition is allowed to take place on the free market in lieu of greater Government intervention in the economy
>could, if they banded together, turn against the king and cripple the country if their interests were in any way hurt by royal policy
There is more such power in modern political parties, the judiciary, and even the executive arm of Government than any retainers of old enjoyed.
Examples: Boris Johnson was forced to step down by his own executive branch. Theresa May was forced out by her political party. Trump was impeached, though not successfully.
>Feudalism is essentially how large human organisations function to this day.
What's your definition of feudalism?
> ... nobility held lands from the Crown in exchange for military service, and vassals were in turn tenants of the nobles, while the peasants (villeins or serfs) were obliged to live on their lord's land and give him homage, labor, and a share of the produce, notionally in exchange for military protection.
Assume you're drawing parallels with modern corps and nobility, but if so that's a weak comparison.
The competition referred to here is force, silly!
Putin is not even at fault here, he's doing what any man would do if they were handed a real life sandbox civilization simulator. Russian people are the real fools in this and they will be left to foot the bill of Putin's poor decisions for generations to come. Lessons from history say Russians will get more vengeful the bigger losers they are so eventually the whole thing has no other destiny, but to collapse. If we had any sense, we'd treat the situation as if nuclear weapons were already flying and additionally, were being shipped to North Korea, Myanmar, Venezuela and other shitholes around the world - out of pure spite.
>Bellingcat
So, are they MI6 glowies or nah?
In theory this sounds like a way of forcing oligarchs to financially contribute to the armed forces
But how do you get them to bankroll some extra soldiers and not have those soldiers be loyal to their boss first and foremost?
Kamil Galeev claims Kadyrov is doing something like that right now
https://nitter.it/kamilkazani/status/1568350637062242306
Sounds like a horrible idea since you’re now giving wealthy powerful individuals go head for state approved military force.
Do you guys want extraterritoriality? Because that's how you get extraterritoriality.
Oh boy, just as we were joking about Russia operating on late Napoleonic doctrine, they decided to prove us right and have each boyar field their personal regiment.
>Oh boy, just as we were joking about Russia operating on late Napoleonic doctrine, they decided to prove us right and have each boyar field their personal regiment.
/thread
DANGEROUS MUTANTS, ANARCHISTS AND BANDITS WILL NOT STOP NATO ON ITS TRIUMPHANT MARCH TOWARD SAVING RUSSIA FROM ITSELF
>Zaporizhzhia blows up
>Russia falls to anarchy
>STALKER 2 will be actual reality
The future is looking so bright, it's like the midnight sun
>Nuclear bombing of Omsk (Part of the Lukoil-Gazprom mercenary war)
>just hand over the pipeline and no one gets hurt!
>walk away!
What's the source of that pic? It look like a Sabu, in which case that's probably the face of a guy who's rawdogging some twink bussy.
Disco Elysium, it's 'The Expression' aka the grimace of pain that is stuck on the main characters face.
>Outcome: Omsk significantly improved, residents rejoice
>see article: Omsk (golden age)
Late period Rome bros...
Russia truly was the third rome all along
So usa, was persia? Huh, well yanks keep prophets and mongols out of your land and everything will be all right
Persia got steamrolled by Arabs after their war against (Eastern) Roman Empire in 7th century, in what some consider to be the last war of Antiquity
Why not just declare it war and get the mobilisation going? Are Russians oblivious to what doing this would mean in real terms?
and how are you gonna equip your new soldiers if you cant even equip the other ones?
what about training? what about logistics? what about your shitty air force? what about your shitty doctrine?
Because Putin desperately wants to avoid being Nicholas'd
Mobilization is step 1 for that
Because once enough ru
ssians are armed they might figure out that Putin is the only one that has anything to lose in this war
They could barely supply their “special operations” number in the early days and now their logistics lines are frequently anal fricked several months into the invasion.
What makes you think a general mobilization means they effectively supply a bigger force?
aside from the complete logistical disaster that would follow:
putin actually faces real blowback from mobilization. so far the russians have conscripted ethnic minorities and donbawean ''volunteers'' as cannon fodder for the glorious special military operation but once muskovites are being blown apart its going to be a much different atmosphere
1) no equipment or money
2) once the muscovites start losing THEIR children, the war will finally hit home for them and either way the discontent blows - toward leaving or escalation - putin won't be able to control it
Its kind of baffling these shithole authoritarian regimes make the same exact mistakes over and over again. You’d think someone would take a hint and at least try to be an enlightened despot or something. They already have the feudalism bit.
The ones already mobilized are getting their asses handed to them and have virtually no gear or supplies at all beyond the bare minimum to not starve to death. What Russia sent were supposed to be their cream of the crop and they got annihilated and still keep shitting themselves at every opportunity. If they couldn’t handle a relatively small force of that then there’s no way in hell they could manage anything larger without going full WW1 mode.
Putin is a literal street thug who ended up czar. Back the the 50s all the parents were dead and they lived on the streets. Of course they're all moronic now.
Putin's paternal grandfather was a chef at the most elite hotel in the Russian Empire's richest city and later worked as a chef for Lenin and Stalin.
Putins not just a typical thug, even if he was a career ass sniffer he still ended up as an intel officer for the KGB. He’s more like a mob boss that just so happened to be in the right place to get it. His career was pretty uneventful before he became president.
And how many dictators eventually got ousted and/or killed? You can only grug your way through so much, and you’d have an easier time looking for ones who didn’t end up that way. And funnily enough the dictators or autocrats who at least died of natural causes while in power all had a similar playbook and realized that if people don’t have a reason to rebel then they won’t, which means they stay in power and can continue doing dictator things. I know the dynamics are complicated but its still possible, case in point Franco and Tito to name a few. Hell Franco is a perfect example of this given what he did to cause the Spanish miracle in the 50’s up to his death while still ultimately assuming full power. Personally if I was ever to be a dictator I’d at least try to give the people some good reasons to not want to chop off my head instead of playing army man and forming a nation of alcoholic larpers.
>And how many dictators eventually got ousted and/or killed?
I'm not saying that being dictator necessarily gets them killed. but the dynamics of the position is what culminates in those same mistakes we see again and again. the degree of how much corruption hollowed out Russia's military may have never come to light if Putin never went forward with the invasion.
I would argue that dictators are in an inherently rocky position. they have to constantly keep rivals and potential coupes at bay by padding their staff with the loyal over the competent and keeping everybody happy with generous bribes. and the more you spend of keeping the populous happy the less you have for the people that run the military. that military having the means to shut down either populous or the dictator and do the job themselves if they were so inclined.
>And how many dictators eventually got ousted and/or killed?
Castro died in office of natual causes.
Chavez in Venezuela, same.
Both were pretty shit to their people but stayed in power anyway, with handoffs to their chosen successors.
The truth that there is no god might very well destroy reverence towards sacred things, does this deserve being destroyed by truth?
>Its kind of baffling these shithole authoritarian regimes make the same exact mistakes over and over again
not really. dictatorship inherently pushes it's leaders into making decisions that are counter productive for the country in order to stay in power. and when the only source of legitimacy is the military it's always going to be a free for all as soon as the status quo wavers.
the same dynamic took out almost every pre modern civilization that didn't go to extreme lengths to pull another source of legitimacy out of thin air.
No money or supplies to equip them with. No point calling in conscripts if you can't even feed clothe and arm them.
>let's give a bunch of rich people their own private armies, what could go wrong?
Russia, stop. Please. For the love of fricking God. STOP.
>STOP.
You want to see it as much as I do as the Tula ammo Factory beats the fricking shit out of the homosexuals at RT
I do, but at the same time it hurts to watch a member of the UN security council doing a "complete societal collapse speedrun, any%". It may give American politicians ideas.
Gulf War-tier Intervention by the UN soon.
You will drink the cough syrup, russoids.
They're not just random rich people, they are Putin's private viceroys, the people selected for their connections to the former KGB and their loyalty to the current regime.
They will have the responsibility to raise troops but will not be given the privilege of actually commanding them.
This is just Putin sucking resources out of the economy to save himself, same as Xi has been doing for the past 5 years but on a more pathetic scale.
>Corporations having their own military
Okay lads russia has gone full cyberpunk. What a nation of cuckolds to let this happen.
Minus technology, neons and transhumans, so more like nigeriapunk
Mad Max 0.75
Makes sense, the oligarchs already had a more capable navy than the actual Russian naval forces
At least before those superyachts got seized abroad.
Forcing the oligarchs to have a vested interest in a strong military, even if just localized for defence, instead of making all the money disappear from military budgets. Why do you think Putin has his own personal army and it's the most well equipped and probably the best trained?
>Putin has his own personal army and it's the most well equipped and probably the best trained
I just want to remind you that Rosgvardia was absolutely slaughtered very recently in the Kharkiv theater and they didn't even know how to use AT weapons.
>slaughtered in a theatre where the russians ran away with few losses on either side
huh?
Pretending to be moronic or genuinely out of touch with the news?
He probably thinks of a theatre as in a building, not a frontline.
Putin must seriously be desperate, allowing his oligarchs to pretty much have private armies leaves him much weaker back and easier to dethrone back home.
>Putin must seriously be desperate, allowing his oligarchs to pretty much have private armies leaves him much weaker back and easier to dethrone back home.
You're forgetting that Putin owns something like 60% of the wealth in Russia and also can manipulate the ruble internally at will. And also Russian windows are very fragile.
Turning Russian security into a bidding war he's sure to win ensures he CAN'T be dethroned. Ever. Except by FSB. Although I'm pretty sure that was already the case, so I doubt that was the motive here.
Weren't they SOBR?
There were SOBR and Rosgvardia. I remember distincly some screencap from Russian telegram that was giving them crash course instructions how to use RPGs.
Afaik they did not surrender so I give them that.
Barely
>Weren't they SOBR?
Russians are never sober
funny name for a russian unit
The best Russian soldiers are still Russian soldiers and any Rosgvardia in Ukraine are the dumbest are the dumbfricks that signed the volunteer form when it was being passed around or the ones from units that got pressganged by their shitty/dumb leaders probably for a bribe. So not exactly the quality branches of that particular tree.
My bet is on the Lenin's legion.
The New St. Petersburg Republic is way too gay.
>lose so badly your country cracks at the seams like a tectonic plate under pressure and bringing a call of duty plot in to real life
how.exe
>mercernaries sack moscow after the Russian government defaulted on their debts
>2 million dead
>8 million displaced
>collapse of the Russian Federation
>global economic recession lasting decades
>start of the Russian Resource Wars
>China annexes large swathes of Russian oil and gas fields
stop, I can only get so erect
Guess I have to post this again.
It's imperative that Russia be preserved, since any eastern territories that stop being part of it will fall under the influence of the Chinese, who are a more legitimate danger than the Russians ever were.
China's already super bloated with seriously major infrastructure problems, especially water. If they all of a sudden also had to take over eastern russia that would be a disaster for them, plus it'd take their attention off the pacific for a while.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Baikal
want what you're smoking if you believe it's even a remote possibility china comes to control baikal. like thinking the USA will take sakhalin through alaska
I was basing it on
I don't believe Russia would ever give up lake Baikal unless the state completely collapses
It'll get Aral Sea'd to irrigate more rice.
How many sqkm of farmland could you irrigate with all that water?
Depends on if you care about sustainability.
Lets say i give no fricks and want the entire lake gone in a single harvest?
Isn't that the sea that russia drained to make guncotton? Just think; they are using up those munitions now...
Was it worth it?
We got a ton of funny webm's and gifs and memes out of this war, so I say yes. Totally worth it.
Well where else can you take cover during a blowout?
>The disappearance of the lake was no surprise to the Soviets, they expected it to happen long before. As early as 1964, Aleksandr Asarin at the Hydroproject Institute pointed out that the lake was doomed, explaining, "It was part of the five-year plans, approved by the council of ministers and the Politburo. Nobody on a lower level would dare to say a word contradicting those plans, even if it was the fate of the Aral Sea."
>The reaction to the predictions varied. Some Soviet experts apparently considered the Aral to be "nature's error"
Anyone advocating the return of the Soviet Union or Communism in general should be shot
I like this one better
Accurate historic landclaims for Ukraine on Kuban and Adhygea
Dibs on Tuva.
>Finaldn :DDDD
Us needs to take Kamchatka and turn it into a gigantic frick off national park
>implying US wants shared border with Russia.
why's bashkiria it's own thing and yakutia isn't. the map is so arbitrary.
I tried my best, Anon. 🙁
Also you can clearly see that Yakutia is fighting for independance.
im sorry, it's still a good map even if i didn't get it.
Pretty nice. But I do not think anyone wants Königsberg to become another legal, semi-autonomous mess ala Kosovo. Since it cannot be added to either Germany or Poland without upsetting people, it seems best to let it be an independent nation; The Republic of Prussia. Heck, they could even vote to bring back the Hohenzollerns.
Konigsberg is no more. Whatever is left there other than a few old buildings has no ties to the land's Prussian history and the people are mostly Russians. At this point if they ever break away from Russia proper they should just be left alone to create their own future.
It can be rebuilt
fwrd
Third Chechen war when?
If the future for Russia is oligarch warlords will that make loose nukes easier or more difficult to control
It depends on who secures the nukes. Some oligarchs might sell. The best outcome is the military proper secures the nukes and tells the oligarchs to frick off.
20 quid on Kadyrov becoming supreme khalif of russistan
Smart. If you dismantle you military it's that much harder to organize a coup.
It's also much harder to enforce obedience amongst your vassals. Oligarch A and B can simply form their own armies and declare their fealty to the NATO Roman Empire, and if their combined armies are more powerful than your own personal forces you're either going to have to convince the other oligarchs to support you, or you're fricked.
>the NATO Roman Empire
Not to mention more opportunities for enemy forces to strike deals or agreements with warlords behind your back.
Lol, imagine what happened when Bloodimir Pootin died.
>New Warring States period in Asia
Turns out Russia was the successor to Alexander and not Rome. Greece must be so pissed.
With every day that passes, it seems to me more impossible that this war isn't going to end up in a violent coup or the dissolution of the Russian Federation.
>Violent coup
Putin's entire inner circle is die hard loyalists that all hate Ukraine harder than he does and drank the Kool-Aid. I suppose it's theoretically possible that the scales have fallen from their eyes and they actually want to pull back and Putin's gone full mad dictator sunk cost fallacy, but the only reason I can imagine any of them couping, and frankly I can't imagine any of them couping, is so they can trigger mass mobilization and war harder because Putin won't, in the name of the glory of Russia. That's the type of nutbags Putin surrounds himself with so he won't get shot.
And any coup wouldn't be violent. Military stands no fricking chance of making it to him. It'd be an FSB play. And again, upper ranks are all loyalists cause Putin doesn't want to get poisoned either, so it'd have to be an incredibly ambitions upper midrank plot by someone smart, skilled, desperate to stop the madness, and loyal to Russia as an entity (else they'd already have left the country).
Full mobilization might have worked in March, or April at the last. It's too late now. Even if it didn't trigger an outright rebellion, it would take half a year for those troops to get ready - i.e. by next spring. But: they have no equipment and they have no training battalions (all got shipped off to the grinder). And by that time Ukraine will be armed to the teeth with NATO weapons (lend-lease only really kicks in starting October) and fully mobilized and trained (but with actual training and equipment) and ready to roll.
It's unironically ogre. Putin's *best* bet is to hurriedly declare victory "haha, we killed all nazis, mission accomplished, ok we can go home now", run across the border, dig in and start squashing down any dissenters.
But even THAT won't work because the economic meltdown has started.
>lend-lease only really kicks in starting October
just curious, but what are the details of the october lend lease?
They're not die hard loyalists like the Soviets were, because they're not fighting for something they genuinely believe in, they're not fighting for ideology, they're fighting because they get money, protection and the authorization from king monke to pillage Russian ressources at will. They also don't have a choice, Russians have kompromats on everyone, can kill anyone anytime, and there's little the West would to protect a corrupt oligarch.
coup
>Putin's entire inner circle is die hard loyalists that all hate Ukraine harder than he does and drank the Kool-Aid.
Maybe it's true for some of them, but I'm certain many of them are in it entirely for the money and Putin ruining the country's economy and having the West seize all of their assets didn't sit right with them, but they are too afraid of him to do anything.
Putin making them all have PMCs of their own might allow them to actually fight off the FSB if Putin tries to show some of them the window.
or some of those PMCs will be enforcers to make sure they don't frick around unless they want to find out
classic KGB style
>Putin's entire inner circle is die hard loyalists
What about their deputies, as in, you know, all those colonels and secretaries that actually do the hard work? Are they also hardcore samurais willing to ritually bukkake themselves so Shoigu-sama can continue having tea ceremonies in his dojo? Or maybe they will forgo the bushido just this once, and try resolve the conundrum with accurate ATGM shot through the Kremlin`s window (or pumping certain Ural bunker full of VX)?
>each government corporation and oligarch are told to set up their own PMC.
GOOD OLD DAYS AFTER 9/11/2022 CONFIRMED
I think I have seen this episode B4.
Yeah, it's when the emperor of China and the shogun turned into figureheads because all the power were with the local lords.
If anyone told me Russia was going to descend into feudalism after a Ukrainian counter-offensive, at the beginning of the war, I wouldve dismissed you as a schizophrenic.ktygx
Yeah, the guy in question thought the same
Russia has been skipping on payin wages to factory workers in the defense industry since April.
Is this Wagnerite seriously surprised the same is now happening to his buddies?
>because of incompetence and corruption
>we'll still win though, it's just regrouping due to incompetence and corruption
i can't fricking wait
>The year is 2045
>The Gazprom 3rd Mechanised divison and their allies, the Municipal Bus Service of St Petersburg have been pushed into their last stronghold at Vladivostok by the army of Sberbank
>Only the airbourne forces of Stolichnaya Vodka can turn the battle in their favour
Futures shaping up to be kino
which despotic warlord of Snowmalia (formerly LLC Ozero) (formerly Russian Federation) will you cheer on?
Zvezdochka shipyard. Because it's HQ will be on Kuznetsov and everyone knows that's a recipe for dumpster fire
>Meanwhile companies like Kalashnikov Concern assume a role similar to the Catholic church and ensure their neutrality by supplying all sides while playing them against each other.
>and out of the chaos, a Kerensky emerges to unite what's left of the Russian Army
Blake's blood, it's happening!
>YFW your town becomes a heavily contested battleground between the forces of Unimilk and Russian McDonalds.
My movie plot idea:
In the dystopian, conflict-stricken Moscow after the collapse, a fragile alliance of security services keeps the peace. Our main character, a junior officer in the Main Directorate for Traffic Safety, is only barely a siloviki, but suddenly he finds himself in the possession of traffic camera footage of an incident that could completely topple the system for good.
Ghost in the shell: Cyka Alone Complex?
fund it
The africanization of Russia is inevitable
>Warlordism in a country with nukes.
Based Russia making Highfleet real.
From what I understand this is just his Wagner contact speaking his mouth about what he thinks might happen. Not something Putin has said in any reported sources.
Either way, big if true.
>Sire! Sire! House Abramovich has arrived on the battlefield, bearing fifty T-72s in full harness and eight hundred retainers!
>Less than half of what I hoped for. Order them to deploy between the Aeroflot and FC Dynamo Moscow contingents!
>have oligarchs and Corp set up private militaries
Russia will be entering its Warlord Era soon
Frick Russia but most importantly frick off-topic twittercap threads and FRICK YOU
CYBERPUNK
One month to prepare when it starts raining. Brilliant.
- Vladimir Vladimirovich, how will private armies in hands of your loyal oligarchs help us win the war?
- War?
Will Russia ever be at peace, even after split apart into a dozen separate countries?
What can possibly go wrong?
I think that is rather ominous, tbh. It's like an announcement of each clique within Russia getting its own private army, but that's not useful in a war against Ukraine...
I thought the whole point of Wagner was they're operated under a government body which gets around the "No Mercenaries" law?
How do they think this new plan supposed to work?
My guess is that Putin is going full praetorian guard mode and cutting up the army into loyalist bits, and the oligarchs paying for their own shit is to both further more loyalty to monke as well as help deal with costs on the federal level when 2023 ass fricks the world economy with a salted cactus. Sounds completely moronic but after these last two years I leave absolutely nothing to chance anymore, its obvious we’re in the chaos timeline where literally anything is possible.
>they always did say they were the successor to rome
>Putin has maybe a decade before he dies from the old age (unless rumors about cancer are true or he gets killed before)
>Just enough time to make oligarch private armies
The succession crisis is going to be one legendary display.
>monke supreme dies
>oligarchs fight for power
>Russian breaks down into city states in-fighting for control
kino
>cutting up the army into loyalist bits, and the oligarchs paying for their own shit
Oh shit Oprichnina is coming back? Finally KGB is retvrning to roots
the new plan is just the logical continuation under the current circumstances. They jailed all the opposition, shut down all opposition media and are now openly turning they're back on state armed forces
russia will soon be Vatnikstan
mein monke, the JDF and US marines have landed in Vladivstok