Exaclty, by all reports what we're seeing is probing/shaping attacks from frotnline units that have been bad for the russians that ukies have decided to keep going anyway,
The actual reserve counter attack forces haven't been involved yet, lol
>We want you to know just how fucked you really are before it begins pidor
Oh, I'm sure he was already "disciplined" by his Chechen Commissar this morning.
His crime?
Having an ass that was "criminally cute."
He posted about sending money to Wagner every time the cat is posted, and as such, was violating US law, because Wagner is classified as a criminal organization. He b& (and probably v&) himself trying to be an edgy contrarian.
If this is the counter-offensive all news will be delayed a couple of days, Ukie opsec is pretty good and all civilians that support Ukraine will shut the fuck up.
I want to believe. Right now everyone is unfortunately focus on the helis and jets getting destroyed so we will not hear anything until either midnight or morning
Unfortunately? Idk about you, but I'd like to know how were they shot down in such quantity and time frame. >patriot sitting at the border playing duck hunt, I want to believe
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>patriot sitting at the border playing duck hunt
Why has PrepHole forgotten Ukraine has MiG-27s and R-27EAs? Patriots just mean their fighters can give up the CAP role and start hunting.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Yes but both those are pretty short range munitions and relatively easy to dodge. Now if they figured out how to rig AAMRAMs to a MiG-29 we’re in for some podracing.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Yes but both those are pretty short range munitions and relatively easy to dodge
The R-27EA (which Ukraine produces) is pretty good, ~100km range when launched supersonic and great terminal manuverability thanks to the giant fins. As for the AIM-120C (the best we would give them) the range is ~70km from a supersonic launch but it is much less likely to get notched or fall for chaff.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Was the r27 ea actually produced in any numbers or just a prototype?
Because if that’s not the variant they are actually using then all they have right now is SARH missiles so even with less range the active radar homing aim 120 would be a huge step up
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Ukraine started producing thousands for sale to India in 2021, we have heard nothing about them since which is interesting.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
nah its just russian AA panicking and shooting their own guys
I'm guessing that Prig's freak out was him trying to shift blame to the army, and to desperately get more support because he knows Wagner is about to collapse. It's not just ammo, it's lack of soldiers. They just don't have enough and their positions are collapsing and they retreat when threatened.
I always doubted Ukrainian ability, or interest, in rolling up on the Russians in Bakhmut.
Now however, recent events got me thinking.
Has there been anything more predictable than the Russian attack on Bakhmut? It has literally been unchanged since it began. Does it not make a perfect sense to clobber such a predictable attack with your new troops and equipment?
Sun Tzu would be smiling about the lack of ruse on the Russian side. It does seem like Wagner are actually lacking ammo. It is not maskirovka.
The smart play would be encirclement at Bakhmut, it's a risky play because of the consentration of men and arty there but if they can pull it off that is going to be a lot of good Russians.
Sure is an easier play than rolling down to the sea.
It would be a massive PR blow to Russia.
I just hope Ukraine has the ability to quit the attack quickly if taking too many losses. But as I said, the Russians are so very predictable in Bakhmut.
>The smart play would be encirclement at Bakhmut, it's a risky play because of the consentration of men and arty there but if they can pull it off that is going to be a lot of good Russians.
My armchair general take is that since March 2022, the Russians have never resisted an attack. Every time they collapse, if Russians are not in a state of advance or stagnant, they're OK, but as soon as they are pushed they crumble.
It doesn't look like Russia is capable of capturing land. After the shock of February & March last year, essentially there have been limited or zero gains.
>It doesn't look like Russia is capable of capturing land. After the shock of February & March last year, essentially there have been limited or zero gains.
They rolled up a bit in the east until like July until emergency HIMAR deployment stopped the Russians. After that, no more advances only stagnant lines and that brutal assault on Bakhmut.
>stupid Western defeatist analysts be damned
Considering how public the whole "yo ukraine you definitely should retreat from Bakhmut you can't withstand mighty orc waves" thing was, i'm willing to buy it was a psyop that russia totally fell for.
>stupid Western defeatist analysts be damned
Considering how public the whole "yo ukraine you definitely should retreat from Bakhmut you can't withstand mighty orc waves" thing was, i'm willing to buy it was a psyop that russia totally fell for.
nah, it's legit and I think it's just a clash between Ukie and American fighting styles. Ukraine are losing good high quality soldiers in a hopeless battle that they can't win. Makes sense to withdraw.
Americans don't fight against forces like Russia and they don't fight static conflicts. It's all about maneuvering and capturing key points or breaking through. Americans would never sit back and lose marines to bleed some Arab army dry.
Now it looks like Wagner is completely broken and a shell (heh) of its former self, and they're banned from convict recruitment.
Ukraine could never defend Bakhmut directly, and Russians were destined to take the city. But at what cost? American cost/benefit says a city of no strategic value is not worth fighting for, so they should retreat to more defendable hilly areas. The logic is straight forward.
Ukraine instead enacted a dollar store Stalingrad, bleeding Russians out, then letting them capture the city while they encircle it. Soviet versus American doctrines. While not as willing to throw away lives like Russians, Ukraine was willing to sacrifice a few thousand forces to play the long game. Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
>Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
that happened plenty of times in WW2, Korea and Vietnam
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
ESPECIALLY in Korea, where our doctrine became, "Hold our ground for days until the Chinese ran out of supplies."
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
that happened plenty of times in WW2, Korea and Vietnam
America hasn't had to fight a serious war in like 70+ years. It's all been COIN (counter insurgency). Even Vietnam was a mix of real battles and COIN.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
ESPECIALLY in Korea, where our doctrine became, "Hold our ground for days until the Chinese ran out of supplies."
Vietnam was like 60 years ago and look at all the civillian opposition it produced? WW2 and Korea are different - people still had a WW2 mindset for Korea but times change man. Look at all the whining about Afghanistan and Iraq when they lost only a few thousand over decades?
>Ukraine could never defend Bakhmut directly, and Russians were destined to take the city.
But the Ukrainians did and the Russians didn't.
Russia still holds the city, and Ukraine is not foolish enough to try to retake it with street to street fighting.
I wonder, is this an actual planned Ukrainian Counter Offensive or is this just Bakamut defenders taking initiative due to weak Russian defensive lines? I'm not seeing any of the counter offensive units deployed yet
You're not seeing new shiny Western equipment or newly trained troops. It's Azov and Bakhmut defenders going on the offense when Russia ran out of soldiers.
Ukrainians asked for jets forever. We never gave them aircraft.
Russians never could have assailed Bakhmut like they did if the Ukrainians had clear air superiority.
Yeah, we fucked up there. Ukraine should have a fleet of F-16s instead of only a handful of MiGs they can have.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
If Russia's flanks collapse, the Russians won't dare to try to hold the city anymore. They'll run like fucking cowards.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
If battle exhausted defensive line troops can successfully counter attack, I can't imagine the slaughter the freshly trained and equipped troops will accomplish
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>If battle exhausted defensive line troops can successfully counter attack, I can't imagine the slaughter the freshly trained and equipped troops will accomplish
That's the point they're not exhausted. They cycle through troops so these are all fresh. The Ukrainians were losing only a fraction the Russians were.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Similar to Verdun. The French would rotate divisions while the Germans would just pour reinforcements into the existing ones.
>American cost/benefit says a city of no strategic value is not worth fighting for, so they should retreat to more defendable hilly areas. The logic is straight forward.
Bakhmut got artied off the map, any city that the front reaches is flattened in the name of "liberation" by russia. While Bakhmut isn't strategically important in itself fighting their does stop larger cities from being destroyed.
If you think the US wouldn't hold Allentown PA to stop the front reaching New York you are delusional.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
BINGO. We would sacrifice a small city to save a much larger city.
Holding Bakhmut was the sound decision.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Bakhmut got artied off the map, any city that the front reaches is flattened in the name of "liberation" by russia. While Bakhmut isn't strategically important in itself fighting their does stop larger cities from being destroyed.
Ukraine could easily stop the Russians by adopting defensive lines behind Bakhmut, since they are elevated. The purely defensive play favors withdrawing. Soviet doctrine favors bleedout.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Which I completely agree with. The Ukrainians HAD to bleed the Russians out to get them weak enough to have a glass jaw.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
yeah, it's the right move. At the time I agreed with the Americans. The Ukrainians do their own thing and aren't just puppets of the Pentagon like the Kremlin thinks they are.
Holy shit retard. >hold battle in a city which is worth defending >now it's destroyed and not defended
WOW GOOD JOB!
This is why you jack off to cartoon girls and other people make decisions.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Except the Russian flanks outside the city subsequently get broken, and the Russians have to flee the ruins.
Winner? Ukraine.
yeah, it's the right move. At the time I agreed with the Americans. The Ukrainians do their own thing and aren't just puppets of the Pentagon like the Kremlin thinks they are.
It's why they can't predict the Ukrainians. They keep expecting them to do what us AMERICANS would do. It's why they keep reading them wrong.
>We asked the government if they wanted to run during the invasion >Ukraine fought for Kyiv instead >We said the counterofffensive was unrealistic >Ukraine did it anyway >We said holding Bakhmut was a mistake >Ukraine said "Fuck that noise. We hold."
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
City is worth defending not because of the city, but because of the strategic advantage it brings. But we all know strategy isn't the Russian strong suit
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Even Wagner Group is just the same Russian shit with a fancier paintjob.
>Send expendables to die >Threaten to shoot them if they don't fight >Send more to die when attack fails >Commit to stupid fight no matter what
>Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
Americans are willing to accept losing 1000 soldiers in a single battle. But here is the kicker. The American Military is so much more powerful and intelligent that they don't ever have to force themselves into that retarded position to win a war.
Then we SHOULD have given Ukraine fucking aircraft and they wouldn't be in this position to begin with. Russians would be getting blasted with long-range air-to-ground missiles constantly.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Even Wagner Group is just the same Russian shit with a fancier paintjob.
They were also bragging about NOT rotating troops. You know why those guys off themselves in trenches? Because they're exhausted and been in there for months and slowly going insane from the stress.
>Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
What is the Battle of Chosin Reservoir? What in the fuck was the Tet Offensive?
>battles 80 years ago reflect the current public's view on losing soldiers
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Meanwhile the Ukrainians rotated troops around Bakhmut regularly, making them impossible to wear down for several MONTHS.
Wagner Group isn't the future, they're the same fucking fossil as the rest of the Vatnik forces. Time to bury them for good.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
We fight a war with China, we'd better be prepared to accept huge losses.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Both have nuclear weapons so it's never happening. The US Navy will protect Taiwan and back off which will be a VERY scary and dangerous situation.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why would we be worried about China's losses?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Because we still need to rebuild China when it's over.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
80 years ago reflect the current public's view on losing soldiers
Motherfucker, the President and Pentagon were expecting to lose 1000 soldiers in the Gulf War an were prepared for it. When they heard the entire campaign took less they were like "Oh, shit. For real? Fuck that's awesome."
You're a literal vatmoron, shut the fuck up.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Everyone plans for their war to be short and not cost much. Turns out for the Gulf War we were right which is fucking amazing.
>Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
Americans are willing to accept losing 1000 soldiers in a single battle. But here is the kicker. The American Military is so much more powerful and intelligent that they don't ever have to force themselves into that retarded position to win a war.
>Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
What is the Battle of Chosin Reservoir? What in the fuck was the Tet Offensive?
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Not to mention a ton of battles in the American Civil War, lol.
>Americans would never sit back and lose marines to bleed some Arab army dry.
They would never do this because they would first establish complete air supremacy which would enable them to maneuver. The Ukrainians don't have the luxury so they rely on shaping operations with strikes against logistics.
>Do the same thing over and over again, never retreat, and then appear weak when you are weak. - Vlad Putin - The Art of Losing a War
I think Rus just got over-confident, and couldn't back down. If they wanted to push through then they had to take Bakhmut as it's the first city they needed to take so backing down would mean admitting they were never gonna win. Then Wagner and Putin got overconfident they could just throw mobiks and convicts at Ukie lines of defense to overwhelm them. Surely if you throw 40K men at Ukie positions they will become exhausted, run out of ammo, then withdraw?
The "human trickle" attacks of 8 men squads sent on suicide missions will likely turn out to be one of the biggest wastes in this entire war (even if half were convicts).
>(even if half were convicts).
Let's be real here. They will call random mobik corpses "convicts" to minimize the fallout from such terrible losses. You almost (almost) feel pity for them.
I mean according to what I've seen this situation looks like a recon in force gone incredibly right.
IMO the ukies sent some probing forces and the Russians panicked and so they are just pushing their luck to see how far they can go.
>Flanker is the NATO reporting name, IIRC the Russians never gave it a nickname
Crane seems to be the russian nickname for Su-27 and Hunchback for Su-34.
Crane because it looks like one on the ground and Hunchback comes from that large cockpit Su-34 has that makes it look it has a humb.
I wonder, is this an actual planned Ukrainian Counter Offensive or is this just Bakamut defenders taking initiative due to weak Russian defensive lines? I'm not seeing any of the counter offensive units deployed yet
I'm beginning to suspect Ukraine planned to use standard units for the start of the counteroffensive, in order to trick the Russians (who would be watching the formal units assembled for the counteroffensive specifically).
The fact that people are talking about bakhmut at all is kind of surreal. I don't think people realize how fucking insignificant it is, its not even really a city, just a random town. On most full sized maps of Ukraine it doesn't even show up because its not worth noting. It would be like the USA invading Canada and everyone being obsessed with the great city of Lethbridge. Lethbridge actually has significantly MORE people though.
Russia made it out to be extremely important in their propaganda because they expected to capture it any day now for half a year.
It became important because of the huge concentration of Russian forces this attracted.
It's still important becuase it's still full of Russians and if Ukraine can encircle them that'll be a huge victory not because they held the town but because of the thousands of Russians that died there.
>muh flanks
You realize that if you push the center, the "flank attacks" actually get caught and both become encircled? Haven't thought about that, have you, armchair generals?
is there a new map? I want a new map.
here
Based. north flank seems to be rapidly collapsing.
>the counteroffensive hasn't even actually happened yet
the Ukrainian soldiers must have just gotten bored, holy shit
Exaclty, by all reports what we're seeing is probing/shaping attacks from frotnline units that have been bad for the russians that ukies have decided to keep going anyway,
The actual reserve counter attack forces haven't been involved yet, lol
Oh shit oh fuck!
What is stopping the Ukranians from just flanking from the right?
I love how much this cat angers vatniks
get a monke in there
for russia to lose something they have to have taken it first
So now you admit Russia captured Bakmut?
In every sense other than physical
Yes. Legally.
I want news!
How far did the Ukkies manage to push
How much were the vatmorons managed to receive it
Unless they produce a FarCry villain based on prigozhin, im never touching that franchise again.
Awww, is that all you can muster up? Come on, at least post a webm, earn your ruble.
>leaking your top sekrit counteroffensive plans
We want you to know just how fucked you really are before it begins pidor
>We want you to know just how fucked you really are before it begins pidor
Oh, I'm sure he was already "disciplined" by his Chechen Commissar this morning.
His crime?
Having an ass that was "criminally cute."
They don't want your money, they want your body.
Your contribution to the ass to ass war widows fund is appreciated.
Maybe you could help finance some of their many funerals
Nevermind I forgot they don't even bother to bury their dead
Thank god. Your 500 rupees will definitely come in handy. They might even be able to afford the squad level pair of socks now!
>500 rupees
He’s not made of money
>this post violates United States law
Kek. It’s funny because it’s true.
I hope you’re not American
How so?
Wagner is listed as a criminal organization by the US
Lmao yes your donations are murduring Ukraine's sides
I wonder how can be proud of being a subhuman and mad that the rest of the world calls you a subhuman at the same time
Join the cause comrade, I support you and your brothers in your special fertilizer operation.
i don't think they're concerned about losing bakhmut on twitter*~~
Remember twitter Kharkiv offensive and twitter Kherson offensive? Damn, even blue bird is better than puccians at waging special clown operations
damn guys i left this thread for 10 minutes. what did i miss?
i cant be fucked to check the archive, what did that tard post?
>not using PrepHoleX
No thanks, I don't want to go to jail because some tard posts pedoshit.
???
cheese pizza doesn't get archived you dolt
Whatever pedo
you are an ignorant fool
What happened was some anon said that every time someone made the "Russia still hasn't taken Bakhmut" post he would donate money to Wagner.
the state of nu/k/eddit
Russia is losing.
bump
Is there anyway to post via PrepHolex without buying pass?
I don't see captcha field anywhere
you don't need a pass to post, something must be fucked on your end
Maybe try a different browser
He posted about sending money to Wagner every time the cat is posted, and as such, was violating US law, because Wagner is classified as a criminal organization. He b& (and probably v&) himself trying to be an edgy contrarian.
>Russia couldn't take Bakhmut
Bakhmut held.
Can I donate to bakhmut cat?
Stirlitz just confirmed that Ukraine took back Klishivka,
that one
The trap is set. The ass is in the ass. the Urkonazis have fallen into the trap....
absolutely no way. We would hear more about it if that happened
If this is the counter-offensive all news will be delayed a couple of days, Ukie opsec is pretty good and all civilians that support Ukraine will shut the fuck up.
I want to believe. Right now everyone is unfortunately focus on the helis and jets getting destroyed so we will not hear anything until either midnight or morning
Unfortunately? Idk about you, but I'd like to know how were they shot down in such quantity and time frame.
>patriot sitting at the border playing duck hunt, I want to believe
>patriot sitting at the border playing duck hunt
Why has PrepHole forgotten Ukraine has MiG-27s and R-27EAs? Patriots just mean their fighters can give up the CAP role and start hunting.
Yes but both those are pretty short range munitions and relatively easy to dodge. Now if they figured out how to rig AAMRAMs to a MiG-29 we’re in for some podracing.
>Yes but both those are pretty short range munitions and relatively easy to dodge
The R-27EA (which Ukraine produces) is pretty good, ~100km range when launched supersonic and great terminal manuverability thanks to the giant fins. As for the AIM-120C (the best we would give them) the range is ~70km from a supersonic launch but it is much less likely to get notched or fall for chaff.
Was the r27 ea actually produced in any numbers or just a prototype?
Because if that’s not the variant they are actually using then all they have right now is SARH missiles so even with less range the active radar homing aim 120 would be a huge step up
Ukraine started producing thousands for sale to India in 2021, we have heard nothing about them since which is interesting.
nah its just russian AA panicking and shooting their own guys
that doesn't look like confirmation, anon, it looks like a statement in the spirit of "crimea is ukraine"
This. I would be really surprised if they managed to wrestle it back so quickly.
i wouldn't
Did Wagner fuck off for real?
>Did Wagner fuck off for real?
I'm guessing that Prig's freak out was him trying to shift blame to the army, and to desperately get more support because he knows Wagner is about to collapse. It's not just ammo, it's lack of soldiers. They just don't have enough and their positions are collapsing and they retreat when threatened.
Makes sense, its always about saving face with these fucks.
Wagner, Russian military.....in the end they're all just invaders to be slain by Ukraine.
I wonder where all those Wagner soldiers went to... Why are they gone and not here???
To the mud son. To the mud.
Whats the casualty threshold at which units tend to become combat ineffective without R & R and re-building? 30%?
Wagner broke before Bakhmut did
All Vatnik Orc heresy shall be purged.
>Russia is losing Bakhmut
are they? according Vatnik brown nosers it's a clever trap
Just like the trap of Kherson
And the trap of Kharkiv. They ukrainian dick is getting trapped in the russian ass, so to speak.
CAT'S DON'T LAUGH YOU LOW IQ NAFU chud
that reads like they've hit a command post or something, not that they have taken the settlement
LMAO if the Ukies actually managed to blow up another corps CO and half his staff.
I always doubted Ukrainian ability, or interest, in rolling up on the Russians in Bakhmut.
Now however, recent events got me thinking.
Has there been anything more predictable than the Russian attack on Bakhmut? It has literally been unchanged since it began. Does it not make a perfect sense to clobber such a predictable attack with your new troops and equipment?
Sun Tzu would be smiling about the lack of ruse on the Russian side. It does seem like Wagner are actually lacking ammo. It is not maskirovka.
The smart play would be encirclement at Bakhmut, it's a risky play because of the consentration of men and arty there but if they can pull it off that is going to be a lot of good Russians.
They'll encircle the Russians. The Russians have battered themselves like Clubber Lang in the final match of "Rocky III".
Now the Ukrainians will swoop in and kill all the exhausted fuckers.
Bakhmut WILL hold........for-fucking-ever.
Sure is an easier play than rolling down to the sea.
It would be a massive PR blow to Russia.
I just hope Ukraine has the ability to quit the attack quickly if taking too many losses. But as I said, the Russians are so very predictable in Bakhmut.
>The smart play would be encirclement at Bakhmut, it's a risky play because of the consentration of men and arty there but if they can pull it off that is going to be a lot of good Russians.
My armchair general take is that since March 2022, the Russians have never resisted an attack. Every time they collapse, if Russians are not in a state of advance or stagnant, they're OK, but as soon as they are pushed they crumble.
It doesn't look like Russia is capable of capturing land. After the shock of February & March last year, essentially there have been limited or zero gains.
>It doesn't look like Russia is capable of capturing land. After the shock of February & March last year, essentially there have been limited or zero gains.
They rolled up a bit in the east until like July until emergency HIMAR deployment stopped the Russians. After that, no more advances only stagnant lines and that brutal assault on Bakhmut.
Yeah I remember that the Ukrainians were getting pushed back slowly but surely during the summer and the huge artillery duels.
Once HIMARS entered the war, the game changed. Russian Logistics could be nuked with impunity.
Of course Bakhmut was the perfect target (stupid Western defeatist analysts be damned). Russians kept attacking in the same way over and over again.
It was only a matter of time before Ukraine broke the siege.
>stupid Western defeatist analysts be damned
Considering how public the whole "yo ukraine you definitely should retreat from Bakhmut you can't withstand mighty orc waves" thing was, i'm willing to buy it was a psyop that russia totally fell for.
nah, it's legit and I think it's just a clash between Ukie and American fighting styles. Ukraine are losing good high quality soldiers in a hopeless battle that they can't win. Makes sense to withdraw.
Americans don't fight against forces like Russia and they don't fight static conflicts. It's all about maneuvering and capturing key points or breaking through. Americans would never sit back and lose marines to bleed some Arab army dry.
Now it looks like Wagner is completely broken and a shell (heh) of its former self, and they're banned from convict recruitment.
>Hopeless battle they can't win
You sure about that? The Russians are being pushed back as we speak, lol.
Ukraine could never defend Bakhmut directly, and Russians were destined to take the city. But at what cost? American cost/benefit says a city of no strategic value is not worth fighting for, so they should retreat to more defendable hilly areas. The logic is straight forward.
Ukraine instead enacted a dollar store Stalingrad, bleeding Russians out, then letting them capture the city while they encircle it. Soviet versus American doctrines. While not as willing to throw away lives like Russians, Ukraine was willing to sacrifice a few thousand forces to play the long game. Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
Ukrainians asked for jets forever. We never gave them aircraft.
Russians never could have assailed Bakhmut like they did if the Ukrainians had clear air superiority.
>Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
that happened plenty of times in WW2, Korea and Vietnam
ESPECIALLY in Korea, where our doctrine became, "Hold our ground for days until the Chinese ran out of supplies."
America hasn't had to fight a serious war in like 70+ years. It's all been COIN (counter insurgency). Even Vietnam was a mix of real battles and COIN.
Vietnam was like 60 years ago and look at all the civillian opposition it produced? WW2 and Korea are different - people still had a WW2 mindset for Korea but times change man. Look at all the whining about Afghanistan and Iraq when they lost only a few thousand over decades?
Russia still holds the city, and Ukraine is not foolish enough to try to retake it with street to street fighting.
You're not seeing new shiny Western equipment or newly trained troops. It's Azov and Bakhmut defenders going on the offense when Russia ran out of soldiers.
Yeah, we fucked up there. Ukraine should have a fleet of F-16s instead of only a handful of MiGs they can have.
If Russia's flanks collapse, the Russians won't dare to try to hold the city anymore. They'll run like fucking cowards.
If battle exhausted defensive line troops can successfully counter attack, I can't imagine the slaughter the freshly trained and equipped troops will accomplish
>If battle exhausted defensive line troops can successfully counter attack, I can't imagine the slaughter the freshly trained and equipped troops will accomplish
That's the point they're not exhausted. They cycle through troops so these are all fresh. The Ukrainians were losing only a fraction the Russians were.
Similar to Verdun. The French would rotate divisions while the Germans would just pour reinforcements into the existing ones.
>Ukraine could never defend Bakhmut directly, and Russians were destined to take the city.
But the Ukrainians did and the Russians didn't.
>American cost/benefit says a city of no strategic value is not worth fighting for, so they should retreat to more defendable hilly areas. The logic is straight forward.
Bakhmut got artied off the map, any city that the front reaches is flattened in the name of "liberation" by russia. While Bakhmut isn't strategically important in itself fighting their does stop larger cities from being destroyed.
If you think the US wouldn't hold Allentown PA to stop the front reaching New York you are delusional.
BINGO. We would sacrifice a small city to save a much larger city.
Holding Bakhmut was the sound decision.
>Bakhmut got artied off the map, any city that the front reaches is flattened in the name of "liberation" by russia. While Bakhmut isn't strategically important in itself fighting their does stop larger cities from being destroyed.
Ukraine could easily stop the Russians by adopting defensive lines behind Bakhmut, since they are elevated. The purely defensive play favors withdrawing. Soviet doctrine favors bleedout.
Which I completely agree with. The Ukrainians HAD to bleed the Russians out to get them weak enough to have a glass jaw.
yeah, it's the right move. At the time I agreed with the Americans. The Ukrainians do their own thing and aren't just puppets of the Pentagon like the Kremlin thinks they are.
Holy shit retard.
>hold battle in a city which is worth defending
>now it's destroyed and not defended
WOW GOOD JOB!
This is why you jack off to cartoon girls and other people make decisions.
Except the Russian flanks outside the city subsequently get broken, and the Russians have to flee the ruins.
Winner? Ukraine.
It's why they can't predict the Ukrainians. They keep expecting them to do what us AMERICANS would do. It's why they keep reading them wrong.
>We asked the government if they wanted to run during the invasion
>Ukraine fought for Kyiv instead
>We said the counterofffensive was unrealistic
>Ukraine did it anyway
>We said holding Bakhmut was a mistake
>Ukraine said "Fuck that noise. We hold."
City is worth defending not because of the city, but because of the strategic advantage it brings. But we all know strategy isn't the Russian strong suit
Even Wagner Group is just the same Russian shit with a fancier paintjob.
>Send expendables to die
>Threaten to shoot them if they don't fight
>Send more to die when attack fails
>Commit to stupid fight no matter what
Then we SHOULD have given Ukraine fucking aircraft and they wouldn't be in this position to begin with. Russians would be getting blasted with long-range air-to-ground missiles constantly.
>Even Wagner Group is just the same Russian shit with a fancier paintjob.
They were also bragging about NOT rotating troops. You know why those guys off themselves in trenches? Because they're exhausted and been in there for months and slowly going insane from the stress.
>battles 80 years ago reflect the current public's view on losing soldiers
Meanwhile the Ukrainians rotated troops around Bakhmut regularly, making them impossible to wear down for several MONTHS.
Wagner Group isn't the future, they're the same fucking fossil as the rest of the Vatnik forces. Time to bury them for good.
We fight a war with China, we'd better be prepared to accept huge losses.
Both have nuclear weapons so it's never happening. The US Navy will protect Taiwan and back off which will be a VERY scary and dangerous situation.
Why would we be worried about China's losses?
Because we still need to rebuild China when it's over.
80 years ago reflect the current public's view on losing soldiers
Motherfucker, the President and Pentagon were expecting to lose 1000 soldiers in the Gulf War an were prepared for it. When they heard the entire campaign took less they were like "Oh, shit. For real? Fuck that's awesome."
You're a literal vatmoron, shut the fuck up.
Everyone plans for their war to be short and not cost much. Turns out for the Gulf War we were right which is fucking amazing.
F-16s soon
>Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
Americans are willing to accept losing 1000 soldiers in a single battle. But here is the kicker. The American Military is so much more powerful and intelligent that they don't ever have to force themselves into that retarded position to win a war.
>Americans would NEVER accept losing like 1000 soldiers in a single battle.
What is the Battle of Chosin Reservoir? What in the fuck was the Tet Offensive?
Not to mention a ton of battles in the American Civil War, lol.
>Americans would never sit back and lose marines to bleed some Arab army dry.
They would never do this because they would first establish complete air supremacy which would enable them to maneuver. The Ukrainians don't have the luxury so they rely on shaping operations with strikes against logistics.
Or if that failed just deploy literal thousands of drone and missile strikes
>Do the same thing over and over again, never retreat, and then appear weak when you are weak. - Vlad Putin - The Art of Losing a War
I think Rus just got over-confident, and couldn't back down. If they wanted to push through then they had to take Bakhmut as it's the first city they needed to take so backing down would mean admitting they were never gonna win. Then Wagner and Putin got overconfident they could just throw mobiks and convicts at Ukie lines of defense to overwhelm them. Surely if you throw 40K men at Ukie positions they will become exhausted, run out of ammo, then withdraw?
The "human trickle" attacks of 8 men squads sent on suicide missions will likely turn out to be one of the biggest wastes in this entire war (even if half were convicts).
>(even if half were convicts).
Let's be real here. They will call random mobik corpses "convicts" to minimize the fallout from such terrible losses. You almost (almost) feel pity for them.
>You almost (almost) feel pity for them.
For Russians??
I mean according to what I've seen this situation looks like a recon in force gone incredibly right.
IMO the ukies sent some probing forces and the Russians panicked and so they are just pushing their luck to see how far they can go.
If the Russians ran for their life at the sight of a recon-in-force team, they truly are fucked.
Bakhmut will be fully retaken because the Vatniks will run.
People have called it because Bakhmut is the only place Russians didn't mine, because they were attacking lol.
only because of HATO-ISIS tactic of attacking from behind like cowards
the HATO concept of competency is russiophobic
>year of our lord two thousand and twenty three
>Russians have just found out about flanking
>name line of jets flanker
>disregard flanking
Truly the greatest use of maskirovka
Flanker is the NATO reporting name, IIRC the Russians never gave it a nickname
>Flanker is the NATO reporting name, IIRC the Russians never gave it a nickname
Crane seems to be the russian nickname for Su-27 and Hunchback for Su-34.
Crane because it looks like one on the ground and Hunchback comes from that large cockpit Su-34 has that makes it look it has a humb.
Too skinny.
The Ukrainian ass is in their ass. It-it's over.
I wonder, is this an actual planned Ukrainian Counter Offensive or is this just Bakamut defenders taking initiative due to weak Russian defensive lines? I'm not seeing any of the counter offensive units deployed yet
I'm beginning to suspect Ukraine planned to use standard units for the start of the counteroffensive, in order to trick the Russians (who would be watching the formal units assembled for the counteroffensive specifically).
I donno, I think the commander of Bakamut just saw an opportunity and took it, completely unrelated to the actual counter offensive
Plot-twist: we're looking at another two-pronged counteroffensive.
BOTH Bakhmut and the South will be hit.
The entire battle of Bakhmut in one scene. Powerful but stupid & predictable opponent versus clever defender.
Lmao, they losing now? This is truly some LoTR level shit.
No, it's just a distraction from Zelenskyy robbing yet another nation, Italy this time
is losing Bakhmut
How is it losing it when it never had it?
The fact that people are talking about bakhmut at all is kind of surreal. I don't think people realize how fucking insignificant it is, its not even really a city, just a random town. On most full sized maps of Ukraine it doesn't even show up because its not worth noting. It would be like the USA invading Canada and everyone being obsessed with the great city of Lethbridge. Lethbridge actually has significantly MORE people though.
Russia made it out to be extremely important in their propaganda because they expected to capture it any day now for half a year.
It became important because of the huge concentration of Russian forces this attracted.
It's still important becuase it's still full of Russians and if Ukraine can encircle them that'll be a huge victory not because they held the town but because of the thousands of Russians that died there.
is this the new vatnik cope? "well it's not like Bahkmut was ever that important to begin with"
>Advance so slowly, you start traveling back in time
Is it possible to learn this power?
FOUR AIRCRAFT FOUR AIRCRAFT DOWNED IN ONE DAY! YOU STUPID ASS SMELLING SUBmoron SCUM! HAHAHAHA
5
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAVAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHGAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
wait, what's the new one?
Check the catalog
>FOUR AIRCRAFT
holy reddit cope
>muh flanks
You realize that if you push the center, the "flank attacks" actually get caught and both become encircled? Haven't thought about that, have you, armchair generals?