A whopping 12 of them.
https://www.dn.se/debatt/sverige-maste-snarast-skicka-artilleri-till-ukraina/
How would they perform if they were sent?
A whopping 12 of them.
https://www.dn.se/debatt/sverige-maste-snarast-skicka-artilleri-till-ukraina/
How would they perform if they were sent?
what a bunch of fricking morons. what do they think they are gonna send in some legolas sniping elves from the lord of the rings or something? 1 dude with an ak could take down 100 archers in this day and age much less 12 of them. thats a death sentence
Your dwarf ass would love that
>He doesn't know
Chuckled
>what do they think they are gonna send in some legolas sniping elves from the lord of the rings or something?
well they're fighting orcs
>Retired
That's basically the trope for retired officers, they talk around.
Anyway, I'm surprised they didn't send in the archers already. Having a stellar performance in a war is their only chance to sell this thing by now, so too many countries bailed out already. No army wants to do maintenance on the articulated hauler that carries the gun.
I assume that must also be the reason why they didn't send them in already. They probably know the moment it breaks down, or gets a bad hit by shrapnel, it's over, and can't be realistically repaired in Ukraine.
The new versions of Archer are based on the MAN truck actually, so they might get their pitch with the USA and Switzerland.
>it's over, and can't be realistically repaired in Ukraine
This is honestly the dumbest take considering its based on a common commercial vehicle from a manufacturer that already has a dealer and service network in Ukraine.
Well yea that's true and all, but what if the damage occurs not on the vehicle, but on the FRICKING HUGE GUN attached to said vehicle?
Then into the trash it goes just like all the other Western systems they've been supplied with will unless they have parts for it.
There's no good reason to think they have spares for stuff like the caesar either.
It's based on very ordinary and common articulated hauler. Why wouldn't it be serviceable?
Of all the things that would be hard to do maintenance on you decide to talk shit about the hauler for some reason, which should be the easiest and cheapest thing to replace or repair.
>call local Volvo dealership
>parts delivered next day
>trained mechanics already on site.
vs
having to get parts from whatever truck the HIMARS is based on that has never been sold commercially in europe and no one has ever worked on.
>No army wants to do maintenance on the articulated hauler that carries the gun.
Well the industrial volvo dumper they mounted the gun to went out of production so the 24 or whatever we operate are the last and only to be in this configuration. Now they want to use a normal truck for the new guns being ordered since the war began, basically removing the cross terrain capability to the benefit of maintenance (and also the truck cabin looks like it has downs syndrome for some reason)
Sceptical about that. Sure it's a really good weapon but not much of a game changer than what the Caesar and Phz2000 were ultimately. It does the same thing, better for sure, but still the same and they can't send a significant number. A bit helpful but it will It add to the maintenance mess.
Ukraine would be better off with more MLR/HIMARS.
>Better for sure
The Caesar and Archer are light SPHs so you can make an argument about that.
You can't compare it to the Pzh. 2k though, that's heavy armored all terrain artillery with almost thrice the magazine capacity and direct fire capability.
>Ukraine would be better off with more MLR/HIMARS.
The rocket launchers attack strategic targets while the tube artillery disrupts Russia's capability to use it's own.
With Excalibur already present and Vulcano on the way, we could see the tube artillery perform both roles.
I'd say all three vehicles are quite different and fill different roles. Caesar is better for sustained fire while Archer would be better for shock and awe, being able to land a full magazine at the same exact moment.
Every NATO SPG can do MRSI.
start by sending the retired old fricks over there
>How would they perform if they were sent?
All we know is they were turned back before the summer, IDK or they had some critical problem or were disabled by untrained crews
Is there any point in sending 12 of anything? Surely they need thousands of any given system to make a difference against Russia's armour and arty heavy approach?
Won't win the war. And it's a unit so small it wouldn't be worth selling for all the bureaucratic hassle. But it would clear Sweden's shelves a bit, give them some bonus points among NATO colleagues, and give the army a reason to ask for funds to buy something newer and better. Oh, you thought this was about Ukraine? Sadly, no.
>clear shelves
>newer and better
They just finish deliveries man, and 24 extra were ordered this year
>Won't win the war. And it's a unit so small it wouldn't be worth selling for all the bureaucratic hassle.
This is what morons say after the umpteenth delivery of 155mm SPGs. You probably don't even know how many 155mm arty pieces are currently in Ukraine.
I love how vatniks try to decontextualize every weapon offer/delivery.
>12 155mm SPG's from Sweden won't do anything!
>18 155mm SPG's from France won't do anything!
>18 155mm SPG's from Germany won't do anything!
>18 155mm SPG's from Poland won't do anything!
>20 155mm SPG's from Norway won't do anything!
>20 155mm SPG's from Belgium won't do anything!
>8 152mm SPG's from Slovakia won't do anything!
>20 152mm SPG's from Czechia won't do anything!
>20 122mm SPG's from Poland and the Czechs won't do anything!
>130+ M777's from the US, UK & Canada(lol) won't do anything!
>60 L118's from the UK won't do anything!
No single one of these donations is enough to have any effect on the outcome!
>No single one of these donations is enough to have any effect on the outcome!
Well they aren't, mostly likely. Together they are formidable. But that wasn't what we were talking about, is it?
Going by this article interviewing ceasar operators, even 1 cold war-modern SPG from the west is worth like 18 Russian artillery guns (80k/d, zero deaths) and that was about a month into their deployment.
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/europe/manifestations-en-ukraine/guerre-en-ukraine-des-artilleurs-ukrainiens-utilisent-des-armes-francaises_5180191.html
If you could secure the delivery of many capable-enough SPGs for Ukraine they could absolutely grind Russia down as long as they received maintenance
LMAO
Zelensky literally prohibited his troops from criticizing western weapons. So of course NATO gear is the best. 10000/0 KDR!
Now send more, goyim!
Impressive.
With this most recent achievement, fate has, in a single stroke, marked the decline of the West and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and global peace for the Russian bear, which promises to stand in sharp contrast to the historically inconvenient ascent of Western democracy and its cruel limitations on the oligarchs of the world. The blessings of sugar payment plans, Slava class submersible cruisers, quantum Mach 1000 mallbuster missiles, Poseidon tsunami torpedo mockups, and S-400 self-homing air defense systems will be the instruments by which Russia affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers non-Western oligarchs a different option: an illiberal alternative to the hassles of Western democracy and the opportunity for a more profitable and secure multilateralism
>But that wasn't what we were talking about, is it?
It's exactly what we're talking about, but you need to ignore the broader context because you're unable to accept the implications.
You're missing several dozen of M109s alone on the SPG list
Aren't those the Belgian and Norwegian SPH?
Oh right, my brain just read that as Belgian and Norwegian(rather than American from Belgium and Norway) for some reason
Did you intentionally leave the FH70 out?
Shit I forgot Italy
isn't that like 1/10th of Russian firepower?
yeah and russia had 16000 tanks, what's your point?
see
Western SPG trades 13+ vatBlack person guns per unit, you only need 10 to even the score. Then depending on how they're deployed, the localized numbers advantage would be too much and too intimidating
Yes, but Ukraine still has their own 155mm artillery that half of eastern Europe is currently manufacturing, and western systems are just better, by far.
yes so they need more, we gotta keep sending them more arty and shells
and yet here we are with Russia having conquered like a football field worth of land in the last 3 months.
Don't forget the boats with like 200 paladins on the way after the latest 3bill for the offensives
>12 archers
Only 12? Don't they need like 1000 at least? Also would they use explosive arrow?
Practically they'd want 18 to form a whole unit just like the PZH2000, Caesar and Krab.
>Archer
They didn't make that many of them iirc
that would mean sending a quarter of the swedish artillery inventory so probably wont happen.
>A whopping 12 of them.
Sweden has ordered a whopping 48 so its no less than 25% of them. And they arent much better than far cheaper french caesars, their on board magazine is tiny, so they have to be reloaded constantly. And pneumatic tires means they will end up stranded from running over bomblets or having the tires shredded by russian grenades exploding nearby.
>far cheaper french caesars
It's funny that's also mounted to a Volvo group vehicle.
Archer holds 21 shells and costs 4 million $
Ceasar holds 18 shells costs 8 million $
>And they arent much better than far cheaper french caesars
they can shoot and scoot faster which is what matters, they were designed entirely for a country like sweden where visibility is poor, manueverability is shit and the artillery radar could probably locate you to down to the road very easily
The advantages and disadvantages get sort of flipped in Ukraine where visibility is greater, but you could go pretty much anywhere ontop of Russian spotting/response times being shit
in the event you need to do hit-and-run, Archer is perfectly in the role for the job
French Caesars have about a dozen people milling around it, sitting ducks for drones and arty.
In the Archer the crew does not leave the armored wienerpit.