real life bolter?

hello. approximately how mich would it cost/would it even be feasible to fire a pistol based on the warhammer bolter? what i had in mind is:
>this design
>double-shot pistol
>fires two .70 cal rounds per shot
>explosive rounds
>no less than 2000 fet per second

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Problem would be weight, accuracy potentially due to rocket propelled warhead and no rifling from what i can remember reading.

    And of course recoil which i'm guessing is around 84mm mortar for the full size astartes one.

    Could it be built ?, Sure, would it be possible to fire ? sure just not from human hands in the scale it is in wh40k.

    Maybe if its downscale to 20mm isch and all the recoil damping you can design and it would still be a bitch.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >And of course recoil
      Canonically a bolter in the hands of a regular umie, would dislocate your whole fucking shoulder at best, if he manages to lift it up and aim that is

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        iirc there are some scaled down pistol and rifle variants for imperial guard, commisars ect,ect. but yes the recoil would be quite horrid.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Based on OP's description of him wanting it to be .70 caliber and 2000+ FPS, that's straight-up .700 Nitro Express. Firing two at once. Even if it weighed 40 lbs the recoil would be dangerous.

        The hassle isn't going to be designing/manufacturing the bolter. At the end of the day it's pretty much just a gun where every measurement has been set to 'FUCKHUEG!'. The tricky part is going to be ensuring quality control for each individual bolt you produce. That's what killed the gyrojet after all, the weapon is entirely dependent on the ammunition for its accuracy, and if you get any of the little rocket nozzles on the base of your shells a *little* bit out of alignment then that shot is going god knows where.

        >The hassle isn't going to be designing/manufacturing the bolter.
        That alone is going to cost 10's of thousands, so I'd say that yeah, it's going to stop OP long before he gets to the rocket nozzle problem.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >That alone is going to cost 10's of thousands, so I'd say that yeah, it's going to stop OP long before he gets to the rocket nozzle problem.
          You never know, maybe he's some bored rich kid who wants to waste his trust fund on something other than child hookers and crack.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            If he can afford that he can afford the rocket nozzle machining, it's not that big a deal. It could have been done decades ago using a manual dividing head, today a 5-axis mill or just a basic bitch NC mill with an indexer could crank those out precise and fast.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Even if it weighed 40 lbs the recoil would be dangerous.
          What if you made it some kind of autoloading, shoulder fired, recoilless rifle? With a secondary magazine/loading mechanism for the counterweights at the back of the tube

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sure, a recoilless design could work.

            Also, that recoil discussion was assuming that the muzzle velocity was 2000 fps and the rocket sped them up from there. If they come out of the muzzle at a much slower speed and they only hit 2000 fps after some distance then the recoil wouldn't be anywhere near that bad.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              IIRC the bolter uses a fairly large charge to get the ammunition up to a high speed as it leaves the barrel for CQC work. Considering that the main destructive effect comes from the payload in the shell though that sounds entirely unnecessary.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >IIRC the bolter uses a fairly large charge to get the ammunition up to a high speed as it leaves the barrel for CQC work.
                Yeah, that's why I assumed OP meant the 2000 fps was the muzzle velocity. But you're exactly right, if the shells are explosive then there's not much point to making them super high velocity. In fact, lowering the muzzle velocity would let you fire heavier projectiles with more explosive in them.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think that the in setting explanation for it is that the higher velocity gives it better armour penetration at short range, as the explosive charge in the bolt isn't a shaped charge, but as OP won't be dealing with sci-fi-space-magic tier power armour, and probably won't need it to take out tanks, he can probably ignore that.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I never understood why a gyro jet gun would need to have recoil at all. Seems like a pointless feature. Would the initial conventional charge increase the accuracy or is it just more stupid noguns bs from GW?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I never understood why a gyro jet gun would need to have recoil at all
          It wouldn't.
          But as I understand it, in 40k they aren't just a gyrojet, they're a meme combination of a normal gun AND they fire rocket bullets. Stupid noguns bs is exactly it, they have a design which has the disadvantages of both a traditional gun (recoil, the gun itself has to be strongly built, loud) and a gyrojet (expensive ammo, reduced accuracy, full power isn't reached until some distance from the muzzle)...yet none of the advantages that a gyrojet/rocket might provide (quiet, low recoil, weapon can be lightly built). If you start overthinking it it all just falls apart, best just consider it game world magic.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          A initial booster charge so it's usable in CQB plus the RAP/gyrojet to sustain velocity at long range.

          The bolter was probably pirated from pic related which was to have 2 ammo types: explosive gyrojet and SCIMITR.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous
          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/I2Pfoqn.jpg

            That's cool as hell.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Shit. So someone with at least an interest in guns actually invented it.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They used to indeed be recoilless, but them after a decade of people pointing out that gyrojets were shit for close range, someone finally decided that bolters were not recoilless or something.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >sure just not from human hands in the scale it is in wh40k
      Well astartes are a bit beefier than normal humans.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        not just that, but
        >Black carapace that allows to make the armour feel like second skin
        >Powered armour with powered backpack that will power everyshit in the armour, including servos and shit so it will dampen ANY recoil
        >a wee bit beefier than regular umie

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah well beyond a bit and power armor.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Do you mean one shot that basically follows the first? Or two barrels shooting projectiles simultaneously? Are you trying to describe a storm bolter? The speed of the bolt is kind of irrelevant bc the bolts in the setting are meant to be more like gyrojet projectiles - launched then accelerated by built-in rocket to the target.

      It "can" be feasible. Is it a good idea? No. It's not economical to field a man portable version for the foreseeable future, it doesn't have the versatility of an equivalent conventional missile launcher system (much more variety in projectiles), has more moving parts in theory so more areas for failure, etc. .70 cal is like 20mm? a little less? Not enough diameter to fit enough explosive mass in it to make it worthwhile for 'explosive rounds'.

      basically everything he said too. It's just not a good idea.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >They wouldn't make an explosive .70, it's too small
        They make explosive .50 all day

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Incendiary .50 is pretty common, and there's Raufoss which has a small explosive component, but there's no straight-up HE in .50 that I'm aware of.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not to accomplish what OP is talking about. Explosive like an artillery shell in his mind, explosive as in tiny charge + shrapnel post penetration with .50

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/mVRmpLA.jpg

      >And of course recoil
      Canonically a bolter in the hands of a regular umie, would dislocate your whole fucking shoulder at best, if he manages to lift it up and aim that is

      iirc there are some scaled down pistol and rifle variants for imperial guard, commisars ect,ect. but yes the recoil would be quite horrid.

      >I never understood why a gyro jet gun would need to have recoil at all
      It wouldn't.
      But as I understand it, in 40k they aren't just a gyrojet, they're a meme combination of a normal gun AND they fire rocket bullets. Stupid noguns bs is exactly it, they have a design which has the disadvantages of both a traditional gun (recoil, the gun itself has to be strongly built, loud) and a gyrojet (expensive ammo, reduced accuracy, full power isn't reached until some distance from the muzzle)...yet none of the advantages that a gyrojet/rocket might provide (quiet, low recoil, weapon can be lightly built). If you start overthinking it it all just falls apart, best just consider it game world magic.

      https://i.imgur.com/5fSYUso.jpg

      A initial booster charge so it's usable in CQB plus the RAP/gyrojet to sustain velocity at long range.

      The bolter was probably pirated from pic related which was to have 2 ammo types: explosive gyrojet and SCIMITR.

      I think that the in setting explanation for it is that the higher velocity gives it better armour penetration at short range, as the explosive charge in the bolt isn't a shaped charge, but as OP won't be dealing with sci-fi-space-magic tier power armour, and probably won't need it to take out tanks, he can probably ignore that.

      >muh canon

      Everyone who knows anything about 40k lore knows there's basically no consistent canon, so you're either newfags mumbling shit you heard from Alphabusa or you're seasoned 40k lore fags that go around cherrypicking and bragging about the stats of the setting on forums to people who don't know any better.
      More than once Bolters were said to be Subsonic until the full secondary charge had burned completely, fuck, more than once they've been stated to all operate on a pure Gyrojet system. Standard bolters have been described as Recoiling so heavily it would kill a normal man, AND recoilless, standard bolt rifles have been described as weighing thirty to three hundred pounds, and on many occasions writers who either diddnt give a shit or got confused insisted that the bolters used by various humans were full scale space marine sized. Don't even get started on how some writers insist that standard bolts cant penetrate Space Marine armor and you absolutely NEED specialized bolts to get through vs other writers who have regular bolt shells punch clean through space marines like they're not wearing armor at all.

      The setting has no consistency.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Well said. Most of these dickwaving concepts are somewhat recent too. For example the idea that bolters were different sizes was a relatively new idea, created for use in the roleplaying games, to create a sense of progression as you move up to bigger and better bolters. Before then all bolters were one size, after all there is only one size of bolter in the tabletop, and if you wanted a Imperial Guardsman to carry a bolter there was only one choice.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The hassle isn't going to be designing/manufacturing the bolter. At the end of the day it's pretty much just a gun where every measurement has been set to 'FUCKHUEG!'. The tricky part is going to be ensuring quality control for each individual bolt you produce. That's what killed the gyrojet after all, the weapon is entirely dependent on the ammunition for its accuracy, and if you get any of the little rocket nozzles on the base of your shells a *little* bit out of alignment then that shot is going god knows where.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    We are getting closer and closer to the bolter lads, just give it time

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You'd basically need 40mm grenade with greater velocity, and some kind of penetrator and timed/contact and a rocket engine, so shit is going to be beyond expensive and probably pointless.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Bolter
    >70cal/ 17.78mm/ 14 gauge
    >Self propelled ammunition
    Pic related is bigger and it uses appropriate ammo

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You'd have to individually register each bullet with a $200 tax stamp each, if I'm not mistaken

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Depends on how much explosive is in them. 1/4 oz is the magic number. That or more and each individual round would be a DD.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just pay the $5 aow license and get the Origin 12 Cerakote whatever imperial colors you want

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