Puma

How can they fuck up so bad?

  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The vast majority of problems were because of shitty maintaince by the Bundeswehr. How did they fuck up so badly? 3 decades of budget cuts neglect and incompetent leadership will do that.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's just sad. Germany was way cooler in the early 40's

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >How did they fuck up so badly?
      By signing a retard contract where the the crew isn't authorised to even change the oil, and even the most mineute of issues have to be adressed by a licensed mechanics.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm guessing this is just more hyperbole, seeing as 4chan can't read anything without blowing it up way beyond what it is.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          NTA. It is a little hyperbolic but as it stands right now it wouldn't be feasible to go to into an active conflict without a Rheinmetall technician. Ideally every mechanized unit with Pumas would have civilian technicians with them during a war. Which isn't ideal at all.
          Just shows that it's entirely about making money. The contracts they signed don't really account for the Puma seeing any actual warfare aside from maybe shooting at some brownies in a localized conflict with a technician waiting in your cozy secure nato base near by

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Ideally every mechanized unit with Pumas would have civilian technicians with them during a war.
            No, you pay them as "contractors" and have them on site or on call for maintenance at the depot level. This is how literally every modern vehicle is repaired, it's called a maintenance contract. Do you think the F-35 is flawed because weird error messages mean you have to call P&W?

            >The contracts they signed don't really account for the Puma seeing any actual warfare aside from maybe shooting at some brownies in a localized conflict with a technician waiting in your cozy secure nato base near by
            Yeah, no.

            If the equipment is too complex to maintain and operate thats a serious project flaw, as we see in modern warfare both equipment and crew gets wasted pretty quickly, your armored vehicle must be easy to maintain and operate, maybe pierre spray was on to something.

            >easy to maintain and operate
            Nothing, literally nothing, about armored vehicles is easy to maintain or operate. Jesus christ. Read a field manual discussing maintenance for an Abrams before posting about this shit.

            Ah the morning shift has clocked in. Hello, good sir. How was your weekend?

            I know right? It's so tiresome.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I find it fascinating how determined these people are to stir up shit. NATO has just announced sending what amounts to a new template medium brigade and the shitflinging starts immediately.
              Instead of allowing any discussion how the build up of NATO trained and equipped mechanized formations will likely be a decisive factor in the next round of offensives we get an endless stream of antagonizing bait threads and namecalling.
              It is indeed tiresome.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Honestly the people starting these bait threads have neither the real world experience to talk about these things, or the intelligence to do a bit of OSINT, read some publicly available field manuals, google how the US army does it, etc.

                It's like going into a thread about how [insert German armored vehicle that was in the drawing/prototype stage in April 1945] could have changed the war. The only person in that thread with any level of competence will be saying no without elaborating.

                We need a new PrepHole that rangebans Indians, Canadians and Brazillians.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >We need a new PrepHole that rangebans Indians, Canadians and Brazillians.
                while I think you're a gay, PrepHole does need flags.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, not flags. Just keep a rolling rangeban going and step up the efforts to ban VPNs. Every time the most shitposting country lands on Canada, rangeban Canada for a week without warning. Wait until the shitposts shift to New Zealand then unban Canada. I don't particularly care if these morons want to shitpost as long as it's done by buying a PrepHole pass, each post is clearly marked as such, and they get it revoked every time they make a slide thread. They can do it through Tor for all I care, all it means is that when they eventually start spamming CP or some shit their posts will be directly tied to their mom's credit cards.

                It really is getting to the point the site is unusable. Something needs to be done.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't work for NAFO and want you off this fucking site

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Q.E.D.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Nobody aside from you morons ever bring up nafo. Imagine being obsessed with a Twitter group to the point of strawmanning everyone. Either you're a twittermoron that got bullied out of twitter by them or a 4chanfag loooking for something to use as a easy strawman/deflection.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This type of templated bait thread has been spammed here for years.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I know, but the frequency varies.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              They literally can't do field maintenance without a civilian technician there

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >A system fault was probably not found. 12 of these 13 specific damages could have been repaired on site if the troop had called the industry technicians who were on standby. However, there was no such call for help.
                hmm

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/bundeswehr-panzer-puma-pannen-verantwortung-100.html
                >In relevant blogs, one can read about complaints that soldiers are hardly allowed to repair a nut themselves, because this is reserved for the manufacturing companies. Accordingly, they lack the skills to repair complex equipment and are often helpless on the training grounds and even more so in combat.
                You can't defend this. Are you going to call the industry technician every time a screw gets loose? It's not feasible for any scenario besides a training exercise

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >relevant blogs
                >hardly allowed to repair a nut themselves
                >"lack the skills"
                >"helpless"
                >"even more so in combat"
                >all of this from a German source when the same company publishes articles in English
                That sounds completely genuine anon, please tell me more. Actually, please tell me why Germany, for absolutely no reason, has suddenly decided to abandon all tenets of military procurement and maintenance. Please.

                >You can't defend this.
                I don't have to, it's obviously bullshit. Who, right now, has an interest in the Puma being seen as terrible and trashed? I'll tell you who, anyone thinking of fighting Germany or NATO. Who would that be?

                >Are you going to call the industry technician every time a screw gets loose? It's not feasible for any scenario besides a training exercise
                You still haven't provided any actual proof that what you say is true.

                In fact, from your own source:

                >A paper that does not specifically name the damage, nor those who are responsible for it.
                >Soon after the series of breakdowns became known, Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht pointed the finger at the industry
                >ZDF now has the summary of the technicians' findings report, and that points in a different direction - namely to the troops and the generals.

                This sounds, from reading the actual article, like internal German shitflinging about who is going to pay for maintenance depots and who will staff them. Considering the Puma is not in front line German service yet, nobody fucking cares.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >ZDF now has the summary of the technicians' findings report
                What company does the technicians work for?

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This. This poster is not exaggerating, the crews are not even allowed to tighten some screws.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >isn't authorised to even change the oil, and even the most mineute of issues have to be adressed by a licensed mechanics

        Reminds me of my BMW. Why are krauts like this?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Over the past decade the Bundeswehr got rebuilt to work on the same principles as a private service provider. Which means that everything that isn't its "core business" which the ministry identified as "people with guns" got outsourced to private contractors. Bundeswehr has no in-house maintenance or transport capabilities. Hardware has some minor defect? Well, call the supplier to service it, even if it means shipping the entire thing. Train soldiers to repair it? Hahaha, no, that would be inefficient from a business management point of view. Just pay a specialized private company to do it. What do you mean? That won't work in a hot conflict?

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is there a particular reason for the recent failures? This is a ten year old vehicle that's gone through a lot of tests, no?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Of 76 reported faults, 44 were false reports, 13 of the defects are said to have actually occurred without doubt during the exercise. The most serious damage, a cable fire, is said to have been caused by a technical error during maintenance.
      >Most of the damage was due to operating and maintenance instructions that were not followed correctly by the troops, to insufficiently trained personnel, to a lack of spare parts and special tools, and to wear and tear.
      >A system fault was probably not found. 12 of these 13 specific damages could have been repaired on site if the troop had called the industry technicians who were on standby. However, there was no such call for help.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If the equipment is too complex to maintain and operate thats a serious project flaw, as we see in modern warfare both equipment and crew gets wasted pretty quickly, your armored vehicle must be easy to maintain and operate, maybe pierre spray was on to something.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The thing is we don't know if the system is just that complex or if the Bundeswehr is just that incompetent. Both scenarios are very realistic. It's probably a mixture of both

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If the equipment is too complex to maintain and operate thats a serious project flaw, as we see in modern warfare both equipment and crew gets wasted pretty quickly, your armored vehicle must be easy to maintain and operate, maybe pierre spray was on to something.

      It's still a non story, apparently. I read a long article where they admitted that they have still too few vehicles. And that training and constant swaps puts usual wear and tear on them, but that this was unfortunate but expect. In essence, 1000km of beginner drivers in hard terrain will murder the clutch. The same 1000km with experienced drivers would be perfectly fine. And the car is not broken if you drive with the handbrake on. you're just an idiot driver

      The vast majority of problems were because of shitty maintaince by the Bundeswehr. How did they fuck up so badly? 3 decades of budget cuts neglect and incompetent leadership will do that.

      >relevant blogs
      >hardly allowed to repair a nut themselves
      >"lack the skills"
      >"helpless"
      >"even more so in combat"
      >all of this from a German source when the same company publishes articles in English
      That sounds completely genuine anon, please tell me more. Actually, please tell me why Germany, for absolutely no reason, has suddenly decided to abandon all tenets of military procurement and maintenance. Please.

      >You can't defend this.
      I don't have to, it's obviously bullshit. Who, right now, has an interest in the Puma being seen as terrible and trashed? I'll tell you who, anyone thinking of fighting Germany or NATO. Who would that be?

      >Are you going to call the industry technician every time a screw gets loose? It's not feasible for any scenario besides a training exercise
      You still haven't provided any actual proof that what you say is true.

      In fact, from your own source:

      >A paper that does not specifically name the damage, nor those who are responsible for it.
      >Soon after the series of breakdowns became known, Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht pointed the finger at the industry
      >ZDF now has the summary of the technicians' findings report, and that points in a different direction - namely to the troops and the generals.

      This sounds, from reading the actual article, like internal German shitflinging about who is going to pay for maintenance depots and who will staff them. Considering the Puma is not in front line German service yet, nobody fucking cares.

      this pretty much.

      it smells already like a political made up scandal, probably because lambrecht is an enormous retard as last seen in her new year speech. so she needs to deflect and look like a strong and competent. So she blamed everything on the companies

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Germany making overengineered, expensive, unmaintainable garbage that goes way over budget and timeline? Never heard of this before.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ah the morning shift has clocked in. Hello, good sir. How was your weekend?

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    overengineered
    one requirement was to make sure pregnant women would fit in
    the marder is better

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >pregnant women would fit in
      I wonder what could be as big as a pregnant 5'5 woman. Perhaps, I don't know, a soldier?

  6. 4 weeks ago
    T-I-G-E-R-S

    I don't care OP, as long as Germanbros are sending their share of Marders.
    Get well soon, Puma

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Puma
    >tanks
    I hate normalfags

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://app.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/bundeswehr-bagatellschaeden-und-bedienungsfehler-fast-alle-ausgefallenen-pumas-wieder-einsatzfaehig/28897860.html?
    Already old news, the damages were said to be sabotage btw

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