Polands repeated statements of enmity against germany, not to mention their intention to ignore several rounds of past treaties and demand reparations for WW2, are reason enough for us to never supply them with anything whatsoever.
Poland has every right to shut up and no longer take our gibs, but we all know they won't.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Poland is an economic vassal of Germany, but a political and military vassal of the US. It's an untenable relationship.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>an economic vassal of Germany
Polish right wing bullshit. The EU governs economic relations between european states, and EU rules are made by all member states together. Poland and all of eastern europe, are dependent on germany and all of western europe for investments and markets. They understandably resent that situation, but rather than understanding the historical reason and being content that it will subside with time, like the reasonable rest of eastern europe, the polish right has decided that it is a german conspiracy to keep da pole down. Obviously it is the fault of germany (and not russian communism) that poland is poor, and obviously germany has to pay reparations to make up for it (despite ceding a nice big chunk of developed lands to poland).
True. And it can only be for the better when poles have one less angle to shit on germany. >Muh germans won't help us upgrade our tanks because they won't do a full tech transfer
No they don't. They already got a shit ton of land out of the whole thing
1 year ago
Anonymous
>no they don’t
The Germans literally destroyed Warsaw
1 year ago
Anonymous
Do you really want to open that can of worms tho? Go back far enough in history and everyone owes everyone reparations. Also Poland got a third of Germany after WW2.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>why should Germany pay for the destruction of a country they invaded and occupied
Gee anon
1 year ago
Anonymous
Poland got a big chunk of german territory
1 year ago
Anonymous
The Allies literally destroyed every major german population center. Who cares? Stop crying
1 year ago
Anonymous
And they rebuilt them with US money
1 year ago
Anonymous
I've been to Warsaw before. Looked pretty good to me. No ruins or anything. Besides since the nazis leveled your cities the soviets destroyed and rebuild everything twice over already anyway. You already get plenty EU gibs maybe you can ask Russia for some more
1 year ago
Anonymous
>no ruins or anything
It’s been rebuilt
1 year ago
Anonymous
Exactly. So what's the problem? And don't claim any monetary damages you didn't even have capitalism 30 years ago.
1 year ago
Anonymous
People lost for starters
1 year ago
Anonymous
Blame your foreign minister for refusing to work with Germany against the Soviets and trying to build a central european empire led by poland instead.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Working with nazi germany? How exactly do you think it would go? Do you not know that killing israelites and Slavs was their whole thing?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Worked well for Croatia
1 year ago
Anonymous
Those were reparations for the land Soviets took and they were about 80k square kilometers short of an equal exchange anyway.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Those were reparations for the land Soviets took
Germany has to pay reparations for stuff the soviets took? What weird logic is that? Poland got a third of Germany, end of story. If the soviets took land from Poland you should take it up with them, I guess.
1 year ago
Anonymous
They paid Poland back for the land they took with German land. There is a difference there. Germany has not paid anything.
1 year ago
Anonymous
You got land form Germany. And the soviets took some land from you. But instead of asking the soviets for your land back you ask Germany for more? Weird logic
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's probably a good thing that you don't understand the gibsBlack person mindset.
1 year ago
Anonymous
No, we got land from the Soviets in an unequal exchange and no war reparations from Germany.
1 year ago
Anonymous
What soviet lands did you recieve? I only remember Poland getting eastern Germany
1 year ago
Anonymous
Yeah, taken by the Soviets and given in exchange for eastern territories, not as German war reparations.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That´s childrens logic, anon.
But you will never get those reparations anyway, so cry about it some more lmao.
1 year ago
Anonymous
How is that children's logic, these are 2 separate issues that you're tying together for your benefit.
I'm aware we're never getting them. I'm just saying we never got what we deserved.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Not him but you clearly don't realize how reparations work.
Hint: they are nearly always taken by force of arms and that land never belonged to Russians.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Neither did the eastern territories of Poland which they took from us.
1 year ago
Anonymous
So why don´t you complain to russia?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Sounds like something you should complain to Russia instead of Germany about, don't you think?
Right now you just sound like you're angry and want to lash out but haven't really thought your excuse through.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Ok, how about this: you ask for your eastern territories back and give back german eastern territories. In exchange you get your reparations. Everyone should be happy then, no?
1 year ago
Anonymous
If you can convince Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine to give up half their countries with no benefit to them then why not.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>If you can convince Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine
Why would that be anyones job beside Poland? It´s about your territories, no?
1 year ago
Anonymous
You're the one proposing the deal no? Plus you also want our lands too so its your problem as well.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I think your problem is that you are incapable of looking at different actors seperately. Poland got german territories BUUUT because a different country took polish territories at the same time, this somehow doesn´t count. So actually Poland got nothing from Germany and can demand more.
If the eastern german territories don´t count as reparations, what gives Poland the right to keep them? It can´t be the fact that you lost your eastern territories, because that had nothing to do with Germany. If someone steals your TV but gives you your neighbors TV instead, you´re still not entitled to keep the neighbors TV. You need to get your own TV back or live without it.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>you´re still not entitled to keep the neighbors
you dont know poles, do you
1 year ago
Anonymous
>trying to explain the sanctity of property for a pole
You must be too young to remember the tens of thousands of cars they immediately started stealing when the west opened their borders to them.
1 year ago
Anonymous
colleague went to Poland with a company car for buiseness.
Two weeks later he returned with only the key, lmao
1 year ago
Anonymous
I went there for vacation and unironically heard car alarms go off all night every night.
>B-bu the UK
Why are you obsessed with the UK
[...]
It's a huge Loan of a Loan to buy German kit that won't arrive lol most of it is for rebuilding infrastructure postwar
Nah
>sanctity of property
Can you explain, why Gdansk is a "german propety"?
It was founded by Poles, most of it's existence it was under Polish rule. But at some point the Teutonic Knights conquered it by treachery (they used german merchants who opened the gates) and ethnically cleansed the city.
But now Germans play a victim and claim that their "rightful" city was viciously stolen from them.
Germans have truly fascinating mindset.
Black person what the frick are you even talking about you spastic schizo?
1 year ago
Anonymous
>sanctity of property
Can you explain, why Gdansk is a "german propety"?
It was founded by Poles, most of it's existence it was under Polish rule. But at some point the Teutonic Knights conquered it by treachery (they used german merchants who opened the gates) and ethnically cleansed the city.
But now Germans play a victim and claim that their "rightful" city was viciously stolen from them.
Germans have truly fascinating mindset.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Why are you focussing on this one city now? Seems like you want to stir the conversation away because you´re running out of arguments
1 year ago
Anonymous
ukraine is straight nr2 after india
Nah that's VAG group and Mercedes with the emissions scandal
1 year ago
Anonymous
frick, i missed where these concerns run ransomware ad's an harass boomers on the phone
>doesn’t understand the importance of discouraging future acts of aggression on European soil
Smooth brain moment
coming straight from cuban crisis 2.0
I went there for vacation and unironically heard car alarms go off all night every night.
[...]
Nah
[...]
Black person what the frick are you even talking about you spastic schizo?
>I went there for vacation
my condolence. A relative visited the farm there he grew up, that as around 1993
It was in a worse state than 45 when they were driven out, no central heating, no running water, half the buildings run down with boards instead of window panes. They used to work ~1000 acres and had multiple tractors
Now? the pictures look like its Mexico
1 year ago
Anonymous
Slavs are bad custodians for anything that isn't solid rock or steel and can mostly survive unattended.
[...]
cope
Ok slave.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's just an example. The same applies to whole Pomerania.
Tell me, what "Pomerania" means in German? It's a "rightful" German land, right, so it's name must mean something in German.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Tell me, what "Bayern" means in German? It's a "rightful" German land, right, so it's name must mean something in German.
1 year ago
Anonymous
The german word for a pole is slave but I don't think you'd argue that it confers some kind of right to ownership, would you?
Also if you wanna go for the historical argument, Germanics were in Europe before slavs since those only came in a later migratory wave. So the first guys who settled the european east were Germanics even if they didn't stick around.
cope
1 year ago
Anonymous
The german word for a pole is slave but I don't think you'd argue that it confers some kind of right to ownership, would you?
Also if you wanna go for the historical argument, Germanics were in Europe before slavs since those only came in a later migratory wave. So the first guys who settled the european east were Germanics even if they didn't stick around.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>sanctity of property
Can you explain, why Gdansk is a "german propety"?
It was founded by Poles, most of it's existence it was under Polish rule. But at some point the Teutonic Knights conquered it by treachery (they used german merchants who opened the gates) and ethnically cleansed the city.
But now Germans play a victim and claim that their "rightful" city was viciously stolen from them.
Germans have truly fascinating mindset.
I see. So now we´re really going down the road of we wuz and who owned what 500 years ago, huh? This is why seethig over the past is so pointless, it always just devolves into the same shit flinging. Let´s leave this bs to third worlders and move on with our lives.
1 year ago
Anonymous
One time when I was in Spain a Polish family stole my beach blanket
1 year ago
Anonymous
Kek, did you get it back?
>go turbo autism mode when the entire world is following Ramstein >cave in only after the entire world shits all over you and bullies you into caving in
Stellar diplomacy, krauts
Nobody ever told Poles they couldn't send Leopards.
Poles were just too afraid of getting a yes to ask.
1 year ago
Anonymous
EU pays every country according to their population.
Spain got that EU gibs as a reparations for the WW2? Portugal too?
When the Germans are gonna give back USA money they got from the Marshall plan?
1 year ago
Anonymous
I don't understand your esl rambles I'm sorry. I don't know what you're trying to tell me
1 year ago
Anonymous
>When the Germans are gonna give back USA money they got from the Marshall plan?
Germany already repaid the agreed amount lol
1 year ago
Anonymous
>When the Germans are gonna give back USA money they got from the Marshall plan?
Like 20 years ago.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>They already got a shit ton of land out of the whole thing
Poland got land that was historically slavic and only briefly was occupied by Germany.
Like Pomerania isn't even a German word. They just got what is theirs.
>, not to mention their intention to ignore several rounds of past treaties and demand reparations for WW2
no such thing motherfricker, you're outright lying
if not please provide the actual document signed by democratically elected polish government
if not frick off bucko
and also you can be sure our tanks will go to ukraine, same as 250 T-72 went, yet you were also seething here that it won't happen
it will
>Russian artillery kills all non-German Leo2s in the Ukraine >only Germany has Leo2s >rest of Europe has half-broken used Abrams >Germany easily conquers all of Europe
who's fading out here?
We are already on the way to get rid of all of our leopard tanks in near future, so what is your seethe all about Anon?
If OP's twieet says true, Ukraine will get Leopards thanks to Poland.
"Great success" like Borat would say
If the "perfidicous kraut" wanted to no logner supply you with Leopards, PiS have already given them somewhere around several million valid excuses over the last decade alone.
I doubt it, they know that they will lose all that status in Europe they fought so hard for if they continue sucking down more Russian cum than the fricking Serbs. At the very least, I doubt they will block the re-exports.
didn't germany said it would cut all future contracts with any country that would send leopards to ukraine?
anyway eventually ukrops will be producing their own tanks, everybody will want them if they perform well against vodkanigs, german military industry will collapse
>like, if Canada sent their entire Leo 2 fleet, what other German equipment is in service?
Nearly every gun with a caliber of 20mm or above in western equipment is either made by Rheinmetall or a company owned by Rheinmetall.
Our artillery is American, our naval guns are Swedish, and we don't have any gun based air defense systems because we don't have any air defense systems. Our few IFVs have Bushmaster cannons.
the boxer might become a new sales hit
already 2000 units ordered worldwide and this will go up as i imagine it being the backbone of air defence in several countries.
it simply is a good concept with good implementation
>no we wont send our equipment and advertise it like the usa is doing >no we wont let you send the ones you bought from us >btw itll take months to get the tanks ready and people trained >but we wont start that now because reasons >WTF THE US IS TRICKING EVERYONE AND TRYING TO KILL THE GERMAN ARMS INDUSTRY
So fricking funny, every single part is their own fault and they're mad at everyone else. Krauts b***hing about gas prices when they killed their own nuclear power.
They are just inept when it comes to foreign policy. German autism has that cool +25% Industry Buff, but the huge -10 opinion malus and -25% influence gain fricking destroys their empire every single time.
Poland is also keeping their mouths shut after everyone started donating Patriots, even though they have some AND germany is using theirs to protect polands Airspace.
they're not even operational yet
https://www.gov.pl/web/national-defence/agreement-for-the-wisa-system >The delivery of both batteries of the IBCS / PATRIOT system is planned by the end of 2022, and the initial operational capability (IOC) is planned at the turn of 2023 and 2024.
Not true actually. It has to go through the federal office for economic affairs and export control and the federal security council. Scholz is a member of the latter but to get through the security council you just need a simple majority.
The foreign minister is also part of that council so her word has just as much weight.
>Germany could send its own equipment >doesn't want to because they don't want to upset Russia >every other European country sees the importance of Ukraine and wants to send their own Leopard IIs but it is insanely costly >US just tells everyone that they will replace the German tanks that they send to Ukraine
Much like WW2, the US just bumbled into becoming an even stronger hegemon because Germany acted like total morons. I seriously don't know what Scholz was expecting.
In hindsight, not getting hooked on Russian natural gas. In the moment, promising their own Leopard IIs instead of having everyone else empty their pockets even more.
by allowing Leopard owner to send their oldest versions of tanks to Ukraine. Germans could still make good money selling parts for them. It's not like these tanks are gonna be used for next 6 months and then scraped, they will be in service for the next decade at least.
Hypothetically after the war will be over Ukraine could buy new/ renovated tanks from Germans. They already ordered PZH2000 so I don't think there's any reason why they woulnd't be satisfied with Leos as well.
>by allowing Leopard owner to send their oldest versions of tanks to Ukraine
All those countries would replace their Leopards with Abrams, so Germany would lose a ton of customers to the US >Germans could still make good money selling parts for them. It's not like these tanks are gonna be used for next 6 months and then scraped, they will be in service for the next decade at least.
A lot of them will be destroyed in the war. And by doing this Germany would effectively lose a ton of wealthy european customers in exchange for gaining Ukraine as a customer. A country which was poor as frick prior to the war and which will face an enormous amount of debt after this is over. What a bargain lmao. >Hypothetically after the war will be over Ukraine could buy new/ renovated tanks from Germans.
Why would they, if they get a ton (possibly for free) now? Also, with what money? >tl;dr Germans are dumb as hell
Ironic.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>All those countries would replace their Leopards with Abrams, so Germany would lose a ton of customers to the US
Now? There's a possibility some countries could check that option.
Few months earlier? Not at all. >A lot of them will be destroyed in the war. And by doing this Germany would effectively lose a ton of wealthy european customers in exchange for gaining Ukraine as a customer. A country which was poor as frick prior to the war and which will face an enormous amount of debt after this is over. What a bargain lmao.
Why did you sell them pzh then? To lose money? Think Anon >Why would they, if they get a ton (possibly for free) now? Also, with what money?
To get rid of oldest tanks for which you can't order parts from Russia now and you won't be able in the future. >Ironic
Oh, truth hurts I see. Good.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I´m sorry, but if you don´t understand why losing the european market in exchange for a single impoverished country is a bad deal, I don´t know what to tell you
1 year ago
Anonymous
No country is gonna give Ukraine all of their stock. Nobody is that stupid. That's why there is an idea of a coalition- if you give 10-20 tanks it doesn't mean you wi never gonna buy leopards again. It's the opposite- you have the opportunity to get rid of 2a4s and order new 2a7...
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Now? There's a possibility some countries could check that option. >Few months earlier? Not at all.
What the frick would have stopped America from trying to take over the European market before?
You think this is a spur of the moment kind of thing? I called this shit months ago and you guys called me a schizo. It was obvious.
>by allowing Leopard owner to send their oldest versions of tanks to Ukraine
The K51 Panther uses the hull of the 2A4. Rheinmetall wants to sell it as an upgrade to countries that already have those lying around and that's pretty much the entire potential customer base for the whole tank. I'm sure Germanies hesitation has absolutely nothing to do with that though
Germany doesn't have nearly enough working tanks to equip Ukraine on their own. That's not a feasible scenario. It would have always been as part of a bigger coalition. Germany doesn't have working tanks themselves nor can they make new ones in big numbers in a reasonable timeframe. There's no scenario where Germany allows the shipment of Leos where they don't lose a big market share.
So you're saying is that they made a frickton of tanks, sold them all over Europe but forbade their usage in contracts, let all of their own tanks fall into disrepair, have not fixed any of them and have not managed to restart production in that same year?
They produce about 50 tanks a year all of which are already sold long before they are finished. Just recently someone leaked an internal Bundeswehr report to the Spiegel that said they took inventory and came to the conclusion that they have 17 Leopard 2s the could send Ukraine right now. 17. Rheinmetall said they have 22 Leo 2A4s in storage that they could fix up but it would take months. So even if they started the whole process a year ago how many tanks would they realistically have ready to ship now? Maybe 50? 100 at the most? Definitely not enough.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That's enough for a tank battalion. It's not that people are pissed at Germany for not having many tanks to send, it's that they're using not having many tanks to send as an excuse to not send any. Is Germany really expecting to need to carry out armored warfare anytime soon?
1 year ago
Anonymous
40 German tanks, 40 Polish tanks, 40 Canadian tanks and 40 Spanish tanks is 160 tanks, a Leo 2 users coalition can put together a sizeable force
1 year ago
Anonymous
True. Now they just have to get their shit together and then start training ukie tank crews for the fall 2023 offensive
1 year ago
Anonymous
Spain couldn't even send 10.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>40 Canadian tanks
This doesn't get talked about enough. If there's anyone that A. doesn't need tanks and B. should jut be operating Abrams anyway it's fricking Canada.
1 year ago
Anonymous
were are those fantasy numbers coming from?
Slovakia just months ago refused to send their T-72s to Ukraine because there weren't enough Leo2s from other countries to replace them.
In hindsight, not getting hooked on Russian natural gas. In the moment, promising their own Leopard IIs instead of having everyone else empty their pockets even more.
How many Leos could Germany even provide on their own? And how much would that cost? Germany doesn´t have trillions of dollars to throw around like certain other nations
Oh don't pull that "we aren't as rich as Murica" bullshit, Germany is the richest country in Europe by a long shot. Yeah maybe they can't have a fat multibillion dollar aid package, but as a share of GDP they have sent half as much as the US.
Germany doesn't have nearly enough working tanks to equip Ukraine on their own. That's not a feasible scenario. It would have always been as part of a bigger coalition. Germany doesn't have working tanks themselves nor can they make new ones in big numbers in a reasonable timeframe. There's no scenario where Germany allows the shipment of Leos where they don't lose a big market share.
Ukraine is pushing for around 200 to 300 tanks to close out the war. Germany has 200 tanks in storage, obviously they wouldn't have to send their whole stockpile because Europe as a whole has a frickload of old ass tanks to drop in Ukraine. Germany could drop around 50-60 Leopard IIs and call it a day, and it is unlikely that any sort of Abrams for Leopards deals would be necessary. Unfortunately, it's too late for Germany to renege.
>but as a share of GDP they have sent half as much as the US.
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Share of GDP wise US is one of the least generous countries behind even Germany. Now imagine if it was actually share of military budget.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Germany: 0.14 >US: 0.23
Share of GDP wise the US is only outmatched by the UK and Eastern Europe. Did you read your own source?
1 year ago
Anonymous
Did you unironically pretend not to notice the EU share because Germany marked their Euros with the stamp?
The Abrams of Leopard deal is not out of necessity it's just economically sound. The Americans would have done it regardless. And if Germany sends 50 Leopards that's still 250 Leopard that the Ukies would try to get from someone else
Lmao get fricked with the skewed EU contribution loan kek how desperate are you
1 year ago
Anonymous
Ukraine used alot of Germanies *EU Loan* to buy 100 PzH2000 and MCH155 that will be delivered in 2025, the fricking state of German regulations.
The light blue bar is a coping mechanism by the EU and the German site to try make themselves look moderately capable.
1 year ago
Anonymous
That's just a fraction of the financial aid (and wasn't strictly meant for that or it would be military aid) Germany sent and it's pretty normal.
Over half the "military aid" the UKsent only counts as military aid because it consisted of loans specifically meant to buy arms.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>B-bu the UK
Why are you obsessed with the UK
[...] >everything I don't like is a loan
Not even strictly true in this case but you also seem to have forgotten what lend-lease means.
It's a huge Loan of a Loan to buy German kit that won't arrive lol most of it is for rebuilding infrastructure postwar
1 year ago
Anonymous
Over 80% of military equipment sent by Germany was basic trash really just alot of trash so it added up to a few €bn. Some good stuff came from there but not much.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Even if you're right (and you aren't), basic gear wins wars.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Nah just trash really (which it is)
1 year ago
Anonymous
Ukraine used alot of Germanies *EU Loan* to buy 100 PzH2000 and MCH155 that will be delivered in 2025, the fricking state of German regulations.
The light blue bar is a coping mechanism by the EU and the German site to try make themselves look moderately capable.
>everything I don't like is a loan
Not even strictly true in this case but you also seem to have forgotten what lend-lease means.
>>no industry anyway, nothing to lose
well not realy, they were selling a lot of their cars to vatniks
obviously they had to rebrand it
tho i like french cars, my citroen C4 is a nice one
thank you frogeaters
lol after this the Krauts have guaranteed no one is going to want to deal with their bullshit anyway
Poland will deliver but watch the perfidious kraut use some excuse to never supply them with leopards again
They likely dont give a frick and would rather be done with the kraut homosexuals. Now that they've agreed to share licensed production on the tanks with S Korea, they're ramping up their own defense industry.
>lol after this the Krauts have guaranteed no one is going to want to deal with their bullshit anyway
Why do people keep saying this? Do you think you´ll have a need to give your tanks away to another country soon?
>after this the Krauts have guaranteed no one is going to want to deal with their bullshit anyway >implying America let people send Abrams
Black person
Trump was merely one American president who called the Krauts out on their duplicitous, gas guzzling behavior. I will leave these videos here given how much Trump was called Putin's wienerholster when the trinity of ballpolishing Putin exists in Schröder, Merkel and Scholz. The amount of vatnik grade projection from the Germans has been incredibly irritating.
>we finally find out why biden didn't want to sent Abrams >literally the most israeli reason possible
Watch the cucks spin out into some grand humanitarian gesture now.
>Russia slowly turning into a failed state >Germany is repeatedly sabotaging itself on the world stage
Polishbros... Our wet dreams are becoming true...
Yeah no shit.
Afghanistan is over and the MIC needs money.
Eisenhower straight up said it, they are in control for a long time now and Ukraine is the jackpot.
>improving the militaries of a bunch of EU militaries in the process.
tricking countries into buying up the US stockpile the MIC built up is not 'helping'
When the US stockpile is better and more numerous than what they were supply each other, yeah it's not really a trick and yeah it's definitely helping.
THE TRUTH COMES OUT! Krauts were TERRIFIED of being CURBSTOMPED by the American MIC. They have no compunctions about backstabbing Ukraine over this. I feel bad for the Krauts who shilled Leopard on here only for their government piss right in their eye.
>unload an old ass Leopard 2 A4 >get an M1A2 Sepv2 for free
Dangerously based.
Source is questionable and doesn't say those tanks will be free. (USG realistically can't offer them for free right now. Needs congress to approve)
Donating Leo2s and buying Abrams just doubled the cost of your tanks.
That's a bad deal.
German minister of defense already said that Germany wasn't the only one opposing Leo2s at Ramstein.
Germany will leak everything that has been said at Ramstein and the truth will prevail.
That might actually lead to some very interesting Franco-German developments and a greater isolation forced on the EU by the big boys.
Enjoy the tariffs.
>autists incapable of maintaining long term relationships with the rest of humanity >narcissists incapable of working with others
Nice sitcom setup, I'm sure it will end well.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Frogs are very easy to work with if you let them think they're in charge and prepare alternatives.
>the global most popular country contest
Excuse me what?
Yearly poll that's been held for quite a while now, Germany usually does extremely well and has won quite often. Though I'm sure a large part of it is name recognition due to pic related.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Frogs are very easy to work with if you let them think they're in charge and prepare alternatives.
Germans are too autistic to trick them, hence the comedy >Yearly poll that's been held for quite a while now
Do you have a link? I want to see it
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Germans are too autistic to trick them, hence the comedy
Look up German-French arms project. They always fall apart due to frogs making moronic demands, then both countries make their own version and Germany sells theirs worldwide while only thr frogs use their branch of the project. Happened quite often already. >Do you have a link? I want to see it
I'll be honest I haven't been on PrepHole in like 7 years.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>haven't been on PrepHole in like 7 years.
>Frogs are very easy to work with if you let them think they're in charge and prepare alternatives.
Germans are too autistic to trick them, hence the comedy >Yearly poll that's been held for quite a while now
Do you have a link? I want to see it
(That's where I used to see it every year, it's nit a poll run on PrepHole or anything moronic like that)
If they had offered some kind of discount on a panther for every donated leopard rather than trying to stop people sending leopards they probably would have had a tank sales boom
>panther
that proof of concept meme tank that isnt even half developed? Like it is missing its entire chassis.
Military usually run trials before deciding on equipment
They should take taht turret, put teh LeClerc'S autoloader for teh 120mm gun in there and see where it can go.
they are not even running for the leo replacement.
This is a Rheinmetall pet project to shill their 130mm caliber, that tank will vanish in a drawer
Anons, it was shown off and developed as a possible turret upgrade for the leopard for a reason.
While a dedicated chassis is in the works the most feasible way to sell it is as a Leo upgrade package.
Instant gen 4 tank on a cheap, affordable and often present chassis.
1 year ago
Anonymous
son, at some point it makes sense to ditch a 45 year old hull, engine and transmission train.
Look at the boxer what is possible today, 6 bolts and two cables to swap between ambulance and SPG module. How did they pull that off? not being a clusterfrick of 20 upgrades
1 year ago
Anonymous
Don't fix what ain't broken.
A tank is a tank, no need to be able to make anything else out of it so the need for modularity is not nearly as extreme as with a true all around vehicle like the boxer.
Why would you trust Americans? > Im Januar 2022 vereinbarten die Amerikaner mit Kroatien die Lieferung von 89 gebrauchten Schützenpanzern Bradley, darunter 22 als Ersatzteilspender. Der Verkaufspreis betrug 130 Millionen Euro abzüglich 46 Millionen Euro, die das US-Verteidigungsministerium übernahm. Doch was zunächst wie ein Schnäppchen klang, entpuppte sich als teures Unterfangen. Die Bradley sind mehr als dreissig Jahre alt. Kroatien musste ein Gesamtpaket inklusive Ersatzteile, Instandhaltung und Wartung kaufen. Gesamtvolumen: 630 Millionen Euro.
>ohnonono, burgers coincidentally happened to win again! they keep bumbling into world dominance and we can't do a thing about it!
Stay jelly lads. God loves the side with the biggest airforce.
Why would you trust Americans? > Im Januar 2022 vereinbarten die Amerikaner mit Kroatien die Lieferung von 89 gebrauchten Schützenpanzern Bradley, darunter 22 als Ersatzteilspender. Der Verkaufspreis betrug 130 Millionen Euro abzüglich 46 Millionen Euro, die das US-Verteidigungsministerium übernahm. Doch was zunächst wie ein Schnäppchen klang, entpuppte sich als teures Unterfangen. Die Bradley sind mehr als dreissig Jahre alt. Kroatien musste ein Gesamtpaket inklusive Ersatzteile, Instandhaltung und Wartung kaufen. Gesamtvolumen: 630 Millionen Euro.
Its even worse than that its a shadow government civil war.
>y-you will have to rely on the american arms >or the french arms >or the brits >b-but not us
Shooting yourself in the foot is the new German strategy?
Quick question, but Poland has Leopards, ordered a big ol' batch of Abrams, still has T-72s serving though are phasing them out, and plans on getting K2s, how do they plan on keeping these myriad of tanks maintained since all of them use different parts, as well why is Poland seemingly so fixated on using a variety of different tank designs? It makes absolutely no sense to me.
They plan to replace Leo tanks with abrams over time due Germany didn't give them a license to have a massive repair hub in their country so they chould build their own version of Leo tank unlike abrams and k2
>The facilities are being built soon
and?
South Korea is mass-producing K2s since a decade ago and isn't anywhere near replacing their older tanks.
projecting that South Korea will need another decade is optimistic.
so two decades for Poland to do the same, which is ~2050, is, if anything, optimistic
Tanks aren't cheap plastic crap you can produce in a few weeks anon.
The koreans started manufacturing k2's in 2014 and they've only made 260 tanks so far. The Turks made a similar deal with the Koreans in 2008 and they've manufactured a whopping 10 tanks so far.
You're delusional if you think Poland will somehow shit out 800 tanks in a few years, especially when the designing phase hasn't even started and the factories haven't been built.
Technically the batch of the 116 used M1A2 FEP we are getting will be M1A2 PL as their configuration gonna change to suit us better. This is taking place during the restoration works that the US does on all tanks it exports.
It turns out having just one country supply your tanks might suck if that country suddenly won't play ball when you need them. So diversification of supply chains is back on the menu even if it increases the complexity of maintenance somewhat.
Poland will probably only end up fielding Abrams and K2s, all of the Leos and Soviet shit is going to Ukraine, maybe by the end of the year if the US decides to supply them with Abrams in compensations. A little off topic, but I can’t wait to see Abrams in Cyprus in exchange for their T-80Us
Poland only intends to operate Abrams and K2's. T-72's and pt-91's were already getting phased out before the war, while Leo's were supposed to be either mothballed or transferred to teritorial defense. Now most of the soviet junk is already in Ukraine and they intend to get rid of all of it as the new toys arrive, Leopards will likely follow
It's still a gun. I imagine it might have a use tbh. A lot of ships use similar calibres or lower for low cost defence.
You can imagine a use yourself too.
There is no Leopards tank coalition. Not even the Poles want to, even with all the fuss. Sweden and Finland is a 'maybe', but they request all of Europe to chime in before they do, and even then they will not send more than a small token amount.
HAHAHAHAHA
They tried so fricking hard not to ask for permission while pretending to totally want to do it because they were scared of a yes.
Send them boys, just don't cuck out like the brits and make it more than a dozen.
There's not even enough Challengers, really. UK has 200 active, 200 in storage. US has 2500 active, 3000+ in storage.
How many Leopards across how many countries might be worth sending? A few hundred?
What are you smoking? Since they aren't dropping the line the uk needs to keep a decent number to upgrade to challenger 3s. They could send 70 at most.
Just like NLAWs and Javelins just ended up on the black market and not in Russian tanks? LMAO how the frick are you getting paid for repeating this lame shit for the thousandth time?
if poland wants to go to war with russia it's free to do it itself. we ain't gonna get dragged into open conflict because of these gibs draining shitter cleaners and their pompous postering
Pretty sure that Chile and Brazil have several hundred modernized Leopard 1 units that they're looking to replace soon. US should offer them firesale priced Abrams.
How come the visegrad24 page is filled with news about poles threatening to send tanks and now sending tanks but not one mention of them actually getting the permission to do it first?
Visegrad24 is hilariously anti german to the point were they deliberately mistranslate German News articles they quote etc. The whole thing is pretty funny if you can ignore how many people actually believe their shit
>go turbo autism mode when the entire world is following Ramstein >cave in only after the entire world shits all over you and bullies you into caving in
Stellar diplomacy, krauts
there is no "caving in". Germany never denied a an export request because there never was an export request. Poland lied about Germany like usual and morons bought their bullshit.
If only.
Imagine sending the second most aid worldwide and destroying your industry just to have ungrateful and butthurt slavs and anglos tell the whole world you only sent 500 helmets, kek
German zoomers used to want to send tanks the most, now they want to send them the least according to a recent poll and I'm fairly sure it's due to having to interact with seething slavs and angloids on social media
Poles must build a coalition of countries who demand reparations from Germany for their barbaric aggression, send Leopards to Ukraine and ditch pathetic German MIC.
I like how Americans do it >yes yes europoors, send your Soviet and European made tanks to the Ukraine where they will get blown to shit with artillery >we will replace your stuff with the cheap outdated abrams >be like our slave colony Poland >you don’t need your own military industrial complex no no no >just be like PoleBlack folk and take loans to buy outdated equipment from the US
I really don't get the autism that's been surrounding the Leos. If Germany is concerned about the tank market if the rest of Europe sends their Leos, isn't Germany supposedly co-developing some hot shit new tank with France at the moment that would be a perfect replacement for the Leos?
If poles send their leopards, Germans can replace them with new ones. Eventually.
If Poland refuses and starts buying used up abrams tanks there’s another reason for Germany to punish Poland for further ruining the European economy and buying from rivals.
poles already did this.
when poles sent their t-72, poles expected an unrealistic numbers of leo2s from germany.
a month later poland ordered abrams from the usa.
Well why are they still in the EU?
Its a literal leech nation, a colony of the US/UK that exists for the sole reason of being a pain in the ass to everyone around them.
ITT, vatniks absolutely seething, melting into puddles of concentrated cope and flailing around trying to sow discord because their agents in Germany could not do their job
the war has been going for a year training time isn't really a consideration. Just send abrahams directly to Ukrain. what difference does it make if Russia is fighting western made stuff sent by the west or eastern made stuff sent by the west. I know logistics is a huge factor but Ukrain got like every single APC ever made so only way they ever make repairs work is if they have a very lean purchesing line for spare parts from the west. Don't think repair crewmen is that much of a intrest as they should be able to do thier job just reading the f-ing manual
Noice.
I’m sure the perfidious kraut has some trick up their sleeve
Yes exposing the Poles for the lying frauds that they are is extremely perfidious
Poland will deliver but watch the perfidious kraut use some excuse to never supply them with leopards again
Polands repeated statements of enmity against germany, not to mention their intention to ignore several rounds of past treaties and demand reparations for WW2, are reason enough for us to never supply them with anything whatsoever.
Poland has every right to conquer and enslave you for being a cowardly drain on the West.
Poland has every right to shut up and no longer take our gibs, but we all know they won't.
Poland is an economic vassal of Germany, but a political and military vassal of the US. It's an untenable relationship.
>an economic vassal of Germany
Polish right wing bullshit. The EU governs economic relations between european states, and EU rules are made by all member states together. Poland and all of eastern europe, are dependent on germany and all of western europe for investments and markets. They understandably resent that situation, but rather than understanding the historical reason and being content that it will subside with time, like the reasonable rest of eastern europe, the polish right has decided that it is a german conspiracy to keep da pole down. Obviously it is the fault of germany (and not russian communism) that poland is poor, and obviously germany has to pay reparations to make up for it (despite ceding a nice big chunk of developed lands to poland).
Well they have the asiatics now so it's not like they need you.
True. And it can only be for the better when poles have one less angle to shit on germany.
>Muh germans won't help us upgrade our tanks because they won't do a full tech transfer
>us
Seething kraut detected. Go drown yourself in the spent fuel rod pools of the reactors your government shut down.
Watch out, we got a genius here, by polish standards.
>Go drown yourself
I might drown myself in the arms of a polish prostitute lol.
Something Something toilets, I presume? prostitutes are overrated anyway. Do some coke and buy 5 or so for a really good time.
>Watch out, we got a genius here, by polish standards.
Would you say a...
Polish intellectual?
Kek
we should've nuked berlin. you germans are annoying as frick.
the only non moronic germans all perished on the eastern front and the world is left with the neutered impotent morons
The Polish have legitimate reasons for the reparations
No they don't. They already got a shit ton of land out of the whole thing
>no they don’t
The Germans literally destroyed Warsaw
Do you really want to open that can of worms tho? Go back far enough in history and everyone owes everyone reparations. Also Poland got a third of Germany after WW2.
>why should Germany pay for the destruction of a country they invaded and occupied
Gee anon
Poland got a big chunk of german territory
The Allies literally destroyed every major german population center. Who cares? Stop crying
And they rebuilt them with US money
I've been to Warsaw before. Looked pretty good to me. No ruins or anything. Besides since the nazis leveled your cities the soviets destroyed and rebuild everything twice over already anyway. You already get plenty EU gibs maybe you can ask Russia for some more
>no ruins or anything
It’s been rebuilt
Exactly. So what's the problem? And don't claim any monetary damages you didn't even have capitalism 30 years ago.
People lost for starters
Blame your foreign minister for refusing to work with Germany against the Soviets and trying to build a central european empire led by poland instead.
Working with nazi germany? How exactly do you think it would go? Do you not know that killing israelites and Slavs was their whole thing?
Worked well for Croatia
Those were reparations for the land Soviets took and they were about 80k square kilometers short of an equal exchange anyway.
>Those were reparations for the land Soviets took
Germany has to pay reparations for stuff the soviets took? What weird logic is that? Poland got a third of Germany, end of story. If the soviets took land from Poland you should take it up with them, I guess.
They paid Poland back for the land they took with German land. There is a difference there. Germany has not paid anything.
You got land form Germany. And the soviets took some land from you. But instead of asking the soviets for your land back you ask Germany for more? Weird logic
It's probably a good thing that you don't understand the gibsBlack person mindset.
No, we got land from the Soviets in an unequal exchange and no war reparations from Germany.
What soviet lands did you recieve? I only remember Poland getting eastern Germany
Yeah, taken by the Soviets and given in exchange for eastern territories, not as German war reparations.
That´s childrens logic, anon.
But you will never get those reparations anyway, so cry about it some more lmao.
How is that children's logic, these are 2 separate issues that you're tying together for your benefit.
I'm aware we're never getting them. I'm just saying we never got what we deserved.
Not him but you clearly don't realize how reparations work.
Hint: they are nearly always taken by force of arms and that land never belonged to Russians.
Neither did the eastern territories of Poland which they took from us.
So why don´t you complain to russia?
Sounds like something you should complain to Russia instead of Germany about, don't you think?
Right now you just sound like you're angry and want to lash out but haven't really thought your excuse through.
Ok, how about this: you ask for your eastern territories back and give back german eastern territories. In exchange you get your reparations. Everyone should be happy then, no?
If you can convince Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine to give up half their countries with no benefit to them then why not.
>If you can convince Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine
Why would that be anyones job beside Poland? It´s about your territories, no?
You're the one proposing the deal no? Plus you also want our lands too so its your problem as well.
I think your problem is that you are incapable of looking at different actors seperately. Poland got german territories BUUUT because a different country took polish territories at the same time, this somehow doesn´t count. So actually Poland got nothing from Germany and can demand more.
If the eastern german territories don´t count as reparations, what gives Poland the right to keep them? It can´t be the fact that you lost your eastern territories, because that had nothing to do with Germany. If someone steals your TV but gives you your neighbors TV instead, you´re still not entitled to keep the neighbors TV. You need to get your own TV back or live without it.
>you´re still not entitled to keep the neighbors
you dont know poles, do you
>trying to explain the sanctity of property for a pole
You must be too young to remember the tens of thousands of cars they immediately started stealing when the west opened their borders to them.
colleague went to Poland with a company car for buiseness.
Two weeks later he returned with only the key, lmao
I went there for vacation and unironically heard car alarms go off all night every night.
Nah
Black person what the frick are you even talking about you spastic schizo?
>sanctity of property
Can you explain, why Gdansk is a "german propety"?
It was founded by Poles, most of it's existence it was under Polish rule. But at some point the Teutonic Knights conquered it by treachery (they used german merchants who opened the gates) and ethnically cleansed the city.
But now Germans play a victim and claim that their "rightful" city was viciously stolen from them.
Germans have truly fascinating mindset.
Why are you focussing on this one city now? Seems like you want to stir the conversation away because you´re running out of arguments
Nah that's VAG group and Mercedes with the emissions scandal
frick, i missed where these concerns run ransomware ad's an harass boomers on the phone
coming straight from cuban crisis 2.0
>I went there for vacation
my condolence. A relative visited the farm there he grew up, that as around 1993
It was in a worse state than 45 when they were driven out, no central heating, no running water, half the buildings run down with boards instead of window panes. They used to work ~1000 acres and had multiple tractors
Now? the pictures look like its Mexico
Slavs are bad custodians for anything that isn't solid rock or steel and can mostly survive unattended.
Ok slave.
It's just an example. The same applies to whole Pomerania.
Tell me, what "Pomerania" means in German? It's a "rightful" German land, right, so it's name must mean something in German.
Tell me, what "Bayern" means in German? It's a "rightful" German land, right, so it's name must mean something in German.
cope
The german word for a pole is slave but I don't think you'd argue that it confers some kind of right to ownership, would you?
Also if you wanna go for the historical argument, Germanics were in Europe before slavs since those only came in a later migratory wave. So the first guys who settled the european east were Germanics even if they didn't stick around.
I see. So now we´re really going down the road of we wuz and who owned what 500 years ago, huh? This is why seethig over the past is so pointless, it always just devolves into the same shit flinging. Let´s leave this bs to third worlders and move on with our lives.
One time when I was in Spain a Polish family stole my beach blanket
Kek, did you get it back?
Nobody ever told Poles they couldn't send Leopards.
Poles were just too afraid of getting a yes to ask.
EU pays every country according to their population.
Spain got that EU gibs as a reparations for the WW2? Portugal too?
When the Germans are gonna give back USA money they got from the Marshall plan?
I don't understand your esl rambles I'm sorry. I don't know what you're trying to tell me
>When the Germans are gonna give back USA money they got from the Marshall plan?
Germany already repaid the agreed amount lol
>When the Germans are gonna give back USA money they got from the Marshall plan?
Like 20 years ago.
>They already got a shit ton of land out of the whole thing
Poland got land that was historically slavic and only briefly was occupied by Germany.
Like Pomerania isn't even a German word. They just got what is theirs.
>, not to mention their intention to ignore several rounds of past treaties and demand reparations for WW2
no such thing motherfricker, you're outright lying
if not please provide the actual document signed by democratically elected polish government
if not frick off bucko
and also you can be sure our tanks will go to ukraine, same as 250 T-72 went, yet you were also seething here that it won't happen
it will
>Rheinmetall announces their rebranding to 'General Dynamics East'
Can't wait, slowly but surely Wilhelm's stain on Europe will fade out.
>Poland forces Germany to give-up on their no exporting into active war zones clause
>Germany can now export to Russia
how's Germany the bad guy here?
>Russian artillery kills all non-German Leo2s in the Ukraine
>only Germany has Leo2s
>rest of Europe has half-broken used Abrams
>Germany easily conquers all of Europe
who's fading out here?
They will get them eventually, once polish flags are at munich or wherever the dirty krauts produce them.
They're building a K2 factory and got Abrams. I'm not sure if they're going to buy more Leopards anyway
We are already on the way to get rid of all of our leopard tanks in near future, so what is your seethe all about Anon?
If OP's twieet says true, Ukraine will get Leopards thanks to Poland.
"Great success" like Borat would say
If the "perfidicous kraut" wanted to no logner supply you with Leopards, PiS have already given them somewhere around several million valid excuses over the last decade alone.
I doubt it, they know that they will lose all that status in Europe they fought so hard for if they continue sucking down more Russian cum than the fricking Serbs. At the very least, I doubt they will block the re-exports.
didn't germany said it would cut all future contracts with any country that would send leopards to ukraine?
anyway eventually ukrops will be producing their own tanks, everybody will want them if they perform well against vodkanigs, german military industry will collapse
No, ONE politician said if poland sends the tanks without german consent it would cut all contracts.
one questionable anonymous source vs official statement of the secretary of state
frankly that's more germany's loss than the loss of any german client unless they're particularly reliant on kraut hardware
like, if Canada sent their entire Leo 2 fleet, what other German equipment is in service? They'd just buy Korean or American to replace them.
>like, if Canada sent their entire Leo 2 fleet, what other German equipment is in service?
Nearly every gun with a caliber of 20mm or above in western equipment is either made by Rheinmetall or a company owned by Rheinmetall.
Our artillery is American, our naval guns are Swedish, and we don't have any gun based air defense systems because we don't have any air defense systems. Our few IFVs have Bushmaster cannons.
Anon, I suggest you look up who owns some of these companies.
>Our few IFVs have Bushmaster cannons.
Son, what in the frick is a bushmaster cannon?
the boxer might become a new sales hit
already 2000 units ordered worldwide and this will go up as i imagine it being the backbone of air defence in several countries.
it simply is a good concept with good implementation
Pretty much everybody and everything uses German guns.
Including the Abrams.
>eventually
14 days
All this shit with German Leopard cuckery is basically cementing the Abrams and K2 as the two most viable tanks for western aligned countries.
Germany is being 9 levels of fricking STUPID.
By refusing to help Ukraine, they're killing off their own arms industry.
>no we wont send our equipment and advertise it like the usa is doing
>no we wont let you send the ones you bought from us
>btw itll take months to get the tanks ready and people trained
>but we wont start that now because reasons
>WTF THE US IS TRICKING EVERYONE AND TRYING TO KILL THE GERMAN ARMS INDUSTRY
So fricking funny, every single part is their own fault and they're mad at everyone else. Krauts b***hing about gas prices when they killed their own nuclear power.
They are just inept when it comes to foreign policy. German autism has that cool +25% Industry Buff, but the huge -10 opinion malus and -25% influence gain fricking destroys their empire every single time.
>but the huge -10 opinion malus
Germany unironically won the global most popular country contest quite a lot of times in the last 20 years.
>the global most popular country contest
Excuse me what?
Poland is also keeping their mouths shut after everyone started donating Patriots, even though they have some AND germany is using theirs to protect polands Airspace.
didnt they just get theirs
they're not even operational yet
https://www.gov.pl/web/national-defence/agreement-for-the-wisa-system
>The delivery of both batteries of the IBCS / PATRIOT system is planned by the end of 2022, and the initial operational capability (IOC) is planned at the turn of 2023 and 2024.
>German Foreign Minister
Scholz has final say, not him.
Not true actually. It has to go through the federal office for economic affairs and export control and the federal security council. Scholz is a member of the latter but to get through the security council you just need a simple majority.
The foreign minister is also part of that council so her word has just as much weight.
It's over germanbros...
Lmao, so r*ddit was, right.
Mutts don't want to send their tanks because they want to push germany out of the business.
Fricking americans.
>Germany could send its own equipment
>doesn't want to because they don't want to upset Russia
>every other European country sees the importance of Ukraine and wants to send their own Leopard IIs but it is insanely costly
>US just tells everyone that they will replace the German tanks that they send to Ukraine
Much like WW2, the US just bumbled into becoming an even stronger hegemon because Germany acted like total morons. I seriously don't know what Scholz was expecting.
>because Germany acted like total morons
How was Germany going to come out of this scenario a winner?
In hindsight, not getting hooked on Russian natural gas. In the moment, promising their own Leopard IIs instead of having everyone else empty their pockets even more.
by allowing Leopard owner to send their oldest versions of tanks to Ukraine. Germans could still make good money selling parts for them. It's not like these tanks are gonna be used for next 6 months and then scraped, they will be in service for the next decade at least.
Hypothetically after the war will be over Ukraine could buy new/ renovated tanks from Germans. They already ordered PZH2000 so I don't think there's any reason why they woulnd't be satisfied with Leos as well.
tl;dr Germans are dumb as hell
>by allowing Leopard owner to send their oldest versions of tanks to Ukraine
All those countries would replace their Leopards with Abrams, so Germany would lose a ton of customers to the US
>Germans could still make good money selling parts for them. It's not like these tanks are gonna be used for next 6 months and then scraped, they will be in service for the next decade at least.
A lot of them will be destroyed in the war. And by doing this Germany would effectively lose a ton of wealthy european customers in exchange for gaining Ukraine as a customer. A country which was poor as frick prior to the war and which will face an enormous amount of debt after this is over. What a bargain lmao.
>Hypothetically after the war will be over Ukraine could buy new/ renovated tanks from Germans.
Why would they, if they get a ton (possibly for free) now? Also, with what money?
>tl;dr Germans are dumb as hell
Ironic.
>All those countries would replace their Leopards with Abrams, so Germany would lose a ton of customers to the US
Now? There's a possibility some countries could check that option.
Few months earlier? Not at all.
>A lot of them will be destroyed in the war. And by doing this Germany would effectively lose a ton of wealthy european customers in exchange for gaining Ukraine as a customer. A country which was poor as frick prior to the war and which will face an enormous amount of debt after this is over. What a bargain lmao.
Why did you sell them pzh then? To lose money? Think Anon
>Why would they, if they get a ton (possibly for free) now? Also, with what money?
To get rid of oldest tanks for which you can't order parts from Russia now and you won't be able in the future.
>Ironic
Oh, truth hurts I see. Good.
I´m sorry, but if you don´t understand why losing the european market in exchange for a single impoverished country is a bad deal, I don´t know what to tell you
No country is gonna give Ukraine all of their stock. Nobody is that stupid. That's why there is an idea of a coalition- if you give 10-20 tanks it doesn't mean you wi never gonna buy leopards again. It's the opposite- you have the opportunity to get rid of 2a4s and order new 2a7...
>Now? There's a possibility some countries could check that option.
>Few months earlier? Not at all.
What the frick would have stopped America from trying to take over the European market before?
You think this is a spur of the moment kind of thing? I called this shit months ago and you guys called me a schizo. It was obvious.
>by allowing Leopard owner to send their oldest versions of tanks to Ukraine
The K51 Panther uses the hull of the 2A4. Rheinmetall wants to sell it as an upgrade to countries that already have those lying around and that's pretty much the entire potential customer base for the whole tank. I'm sure Germanies hesitation has absolutely nothing to do with that though
Germany doesn't have nearly enough working tanks to equip Ukraine on their own. That's not a feasible scenario. It would have always been as part of a bigger coalition. Germany doesn't have working tanks themselves nor can they make new ones in big numbers in a reasonable timeframe. There's no scenario where Germany allows the shipment of Leos where they don't lose a big market share.
So you're saying is that they made a frickton of tanks, sold them all over Europe but forbade their usage in contracts, let all of their own tanks fall into disrepair, have not fixed any of them and have not managed to restart production in that same year?
>forbade their usage in contracts
*Forbade their re-export without approval. Which is a very normal thing when it comes to military hardware, btw.
They produce about 50 tanks a year all of which are already sold long before they are finished. Just recently someone leaked an internal Bundeswehr report to the Spiegel that said they took inventory and came to the conclusion that they have 17 Leopard 2s the could send Ukraine right now. 17. Rheinmetall said they have 22 Leo 2A4s in storage that they could fix up but it would take months. So even if they started the whole process a year ago how many tanks would they realistically have ready to ship now? Maybe 50? 100 at the most? Definitely not enough.
That's enough for a tank battalion. It's not that people are pissed at Germany for not having many tanks to send, it's that they're using not having many tanks to send as an excuse to not send any. Is Germany really expecting to need to carry out armored warfare anytime soon?
40 German tanks, 40 Polish tanks, 40 Canadian tanks and 40 Spanish tanks is 160 tanks, a Leo 2 users coalition can put together a sizeable force
True. Now they just have to get their shit together and then start training ukie tank crews for the fall 2023 offensive
Spain couldn't even send 10.
>40 Canadian tanks
This doesn't get talked about enough. If there's anyone that A. doesn't need tanks and B. should jut be operating Abrams anyway it's fricking Canada.
were are those fantasy numbers coming from?
Slovakia just months ago refused to send their T-72s to Ukraine because there weren't enough Leo2s from other countries to replace them.
>the importance of Ukraine
right, what cruel place would this world be without their cheese pizza and army's of internet scammer
>cheese pizza and army's of internet scammer
That's russia tho
ukraine is straight nr2 after india
>doesn’t understand the importance of discouraging future acts of aggression on European soil
Smooth brain moment
>US just bumbled into
I love how yuropoors can't imagine this was done on purpose
I mean, maybe if Germany actually sent their tanks over they wouldn't be in this situation? Just saying.
How many Leos could Germany even provide on their own? And how much would that cost? Germany doesn´t have trillions of dollars to throw around like certain other nations
Oh don't pull that "we aren't as rich as Murica" bullshit, Germany is the richest country in Europe by a long shot. Yeah maybe they can't have a fat multibillion dollar aid package, but as a share of GDP they have sent half as much as the US.
Ukraine is pushing for around 200 to 300 tanks to close out the war. Germany has 200 tanks in storage, obviously they wouldn't have to send their whole stockpile because Europe as a whole has a frickload of old ass tanks to drop in Ukraine. Germany could drop around 50-60 Leopard IIs and call it a day, and it is unlikely that any sort of Abrams for Leopards deals would be necessary. Unfortunately, it's too late for Germany to renege.
>but as a share of GDP they have sent half as much as the US.
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Share of GDP wise US is one of the least generous countries behind even Germany. Now imagine if it was actually share of military budget.
>Germany: 0.14
>US: 0.23
Share of GDP wise the US is only outmatched by the UK and Eastern Europe. Did you read your own source?
Did you unironically pretend not to notice the EU share because Germany marked their Euros with the stamp?
The Abrams of Leopard deal is not out of necessity it's just economically sound. The Americans would have done it regardless. And if Germany sends 50 Leopards that's still 250 Leopard that the Ukies would try to get from someone else
>Germany is the richest country in Europe by a long shot
That´s a bit of an overstatement lmao
America sent less if we go by GDP than Germany.
Lmao get fricked with the skewed EU contribution loan kek how desperate are you
Ukraine used alot of Germanies *EU Loan* to buy 100 PzH2000 and MCH155 that will be delivered in 2025, the fricking state of German regulations.
The light blue bar is a coping mechanism by the EU and the German site to try make themselves look moderately capable.
That's just a fraction of the financial aid (and wasn't strictly meant for that or it would be military aid) Germany sent and it's pretty normal.
Over half the "military aid" the UKsent only counts as military aid because it consisted of loans specifically meant to buy arms.
>B-bu the UK
Why are you obsessed with the UK
It's a huge Loan of a Loan to buy German kit that won't arrive lol most of it is for rebuilding infrastructure postwar
Over 80% of military equipment sent by Germany was basic trash really just alot of trash so it added up to a few €bn. Some good stuff came from there but not much.
Even if you're right (and you aren't), basic gear wins wars.
Nah just trash really (which it is)
>everything I don't like is a loan
Not even strictly true in this case but you also seem to have forgotten what lend-lease means.
>please think of the poor european powerhouse with the largest economy in the EU
Fricking krautoids
Zaluzhny asked for 300 tanks, do you think Germany could provide those on their own?
It would make no difference.
Slavs and anglos are literal animals.
>be French
>no industry anyway, nothing to lose
>still seethe and cope as if you’re a relevant party trying to “broker” peace
C’est la vie
>>no industry anyway, nothing to lose
well not realy, they were selling a lot of their cars to vatniks
obviously they had to rebrand it
tho i like french cars, my citroen C4 is a nice one
thank you frogeaters
lol after this the Krauts have guaranteed no one is going to want to deal with their bullshit anyway
They likely dont give a frick and would rather be done with the kraut homosexuals. Now that they've agreed to share licensed production on the tanks with S Korea, they're ramping up their own defense industry.
>lol after this the Krauts have guaranteed no one is going to want to deal with their bullshit anyway
Why do people keep saying this? Do you think you´ll have a need to give your tanks away to another country soon?
>after this the Krauts have guaranteed no one is going to want to deal with their bullshit anyway
>implying America let people send Abrams
Black person
American was always going to be the big winner of the conflict anyway. You can't outisraelite the israelite
Ayup The M1A2 from the Polish Abrams Academy are in every metric superior to Leoprads.
Forgot my picture
>7.62mm
Am I moronic or does that mean anything bigger than that can penetrate the upper back
That's the covering over the exhaust exit. There's other protective layers between that and anything actually important.
>Ayup The M1A2 from the Polish Abrams Academy are in every metric inferior to Leopard IIs. Henc ewhy we have to offer them for free.
FTFY. Deal with it.
>ammo stored in the hull
Based gigachad gigabrain engineers avoiding this simple mistake.
Did trump do this?????
It feels like a joke played on Germany
I don't know what it is with Germany and the complete ineptness at foreign policy.
Autism.
Trump was merely one American president who called the Krauts out on their duplicitous, gas guzzling behavior. I will leave these videos here given how much Trump was called Putin's wienerholster when the trinity of ballpolishing Putin exists in Schröder, Merkel and Scholz. The amount of vatnik grade projection from the Germans has been incredibly irritating.
>years later
>not even president
>trump still gifting us with hearty keks
>we finally find out why biden didn't want to sent Abrams
>literally the most israeli reason possible
Watch the cucks spin out into some grand humanitarian gesture now.
The main reason is because its more cheaper/easier to send the leopards than the abrams.
what?
sending M1s is literally as cheap/easy as sending M2s.
US is sending M2s.
>Russia slowly turning into a failed state
>Germany is repeatedly sabotaging itself on the world stage
Polishbros... Our wet dreams are becoming true...
so it was just a ploy to get US tanks into the European market, pushed by teh US lackeys in Poland afterall.
Well played, America. Germany can't make enough Leo2 to suply everyone anyway, and they plan on making that German French hybrid tank in a few years.
Nobody is gonna buy that shit anyway. German weapons are DOA after German diplomatic shitshow of the 2022-23.
Yeah no shit.
Afghanistan is over and the MIC needs money.
Eisenhower straight up said it, they are in control for a long time now and Ukraine is the jackpot.
>quoting half of Eisenhower's speech
sounds like a skill issue on krauts part maybe they should git gud
the Merkel years fricked over German arms industry, probably beyond repair
Kek, how are poles so sanctimonious while regularly serving the most evil interests in the world?
Nobody cares except for (You)
>Germany gets cucked on buying Russian fuels
>gets cucked on tanks
They ought to switch sides at this point
Yeah, they might as well switch sides and start working with HATO
Based burgers BTFO'ing the krauts and significantly improving the militaries of a bunch of EU militaries in the process.
>improving the militaries of a bunch of EU militaries in the process.
tricking countries into buying up the US stockpile the MIC built up is not 'helping'
When the US stockpile is better and more numerous than what they were supply each other, yeah it's not really a trick and yeah it's definitely helping.
>giving people who need tanks tanks is not helping
Ok.
Paying them in tokens that can’t be redeemed for anything useful and not anytime soon.
THE TRUTH COMES OUT! Krauts were TERRIFIED of being CURBSTOMPED by the American MIC. They have no compunctions about backstabbing Ukraine over this. I feel bad for the Krauts who shilled Leopard on here only for their government piss right in their eye.
>piss right in their eye
Germans are into that though
>unload an old ass Leopard 2 A4
>get an M1A2 Sepv2 for free
Dangerously based.
Source is questionable and doesn't say those tanks will be free. (USG realistically can't offer them for free right now. Needs congress to approve)
Donating Leo2s and buying Abrams just doubled the cost of your tanks.
That's a bad deal.
Germany HAD its chance to send tanks FIRST.
This shit is its own damn fault.
Sending tanks first would have changed absolutely nothing about the American goal to take over the European tank market.
Are you moronic?
Congratz. Now America brands Germany as a bunch of cowards who cannot be trusted, lol.
German minister of defense already said that Germany wasn't the only one opposing Leo2s at Ramstein.
Germany will leak everything that has been said at Ramstein and the truth will prevail.
That might actually lead to some very interesting Franco-German developments and a greater isolation forced on the EU by the big boys.
Enjoy the tariffs.
>autists incapable of maintaining long term relationships with the rest of humanity
>narcissists incapable of working with others
Nice sitcom setup, I'm sure it will end well.
Frogs are very easy to work with if you let them think they're in charge and prepare alternatives.
Yearly poll that's been held for quite a while now, Germany usually does extremely well and has won quite often. Though I'm sure a large part of it is name recognition due to pic related.
>Frogs are very easy to work with if you let them think they're in charge and prepare alternatives.
Germans are too autistic to trick them, hence the comedy
>Yearly poll that's been held for quite a while now
Do you have a link? I want to see it
>Germans are too autistic to trick them, hence the comedy
Look up German-French arms project. They always fall apart due to frogs making moronic demands, then both countries make their own version and Germany sells theirs worldwide while only thr frogs use their branch of the project. Happened quite often already.
>Do you have a link? I want to see it
I'll be honest I haven't been on PrepHole in like 7 years.
>haven't been on PrepHole in like 7 years.
(That's where I used to see it every year, it's nit a poll run on PrepHole or anything moronic like that)
Then they align with asians and the chinks, and Russia. Enjoy, globohomo.
>Enjoy, globohomo.
Anon, anglos are globohomosexual HQ.
If they had offered some kind of discount on a panther for every donated leopard rather than trying to stop people sending leopards they probably would have had a tank sales boom
>panther
that proof of concept meme tank that isnt even half developed? Like it is missing its entire chassis.
Military usually run trials before deciding on equipment
They should take taht turret, put teh LeClerc'S autoloader for teh 120mm gun in there and see where it can go.
they are not even running for the leo replacement.
This is a Rheinmetall pet project to shill their 130mm caliber, that tank will vanish in a drawer
Anons, it was shown off and developed as a possible turret upgrade for the leopard for a reason.
While a dedicated chassis is in the works the most feasible way to sell it is as a Leo upgrade package.
Instant gen 4 tank on a cheap, affordable and often present chassis.
son, at some point it makes sense to ditch a 45 year old hull, engine and transmission train.
Look at the boxer what is possible today, 6 bolts and two cables to swap between ambulance and SPG module. How did they pull that off? not being a clusterfrick of 20 upgrades
Don't fix what ain't broken.
A tank is a tank, no need to be able to make anything else out of it so the need for modularity is not nearly as extreme as with a true all around vehicle like the boxer.
>Nations want to get rid of Leopards now
>Finns buy everything off the market at bulk price
>Great-Finland by 2030
Just as planned.
This is probably the most moronic take on the whole situation I have seen.
It's over. Australia will choose Korea for it's IFV.
australia already bought boxer for two billion euros, we made our money
>we
I didn't get any money. What Formular do I have to send to what Amt to get my money germbros?
https://www.arbeitsagentur.de/datei/antrag-sgb2_ba147846.pdf
and remember to check that disability box
thank you
>no track pins
Wtf, are the tracks on this thing really all one rubber piece?
Yeah.
Material science and all that. Their are metal wires interlayer on the inside iirc just like a modern tire.
Emmanuel Todd was right: this is not a war between Russia and Ukraine. It's a war between the USA and Germany.
Why would you trust Americans?
> Im Januar 2022 vereinbarten die Amerikaner mit Kroatien die Lieferung von 89 gebrauchten Schützenpanzern Bradley, darunter 22 als Ersatzteilspender. Der Verkaufspreis betrug 130 Millionen Euro abzüglich 46 Millionen Euro, die das US-Verteidigungsministerium übernahm. Doch was zunächst wie ein Schnäppchen klang, entpuppte sich als teures Unterfangen. Die Bradley sind mehr als dreissig Jahre alt. Kroatien musste ein Gesamtpaket inklusive Ersatzteile, Instandhaltung und Wartung kaufen. Gesamtvolumen: 630 Millionen Euro.
>the joy of getting blacked
That's why you never buy used if the previous owner was a Black person
Holy shit yanks are israelites
Where do you think all the European israelites went
>ohnonono, burgers coincidentally happened to win again! they keep bumbling into world dominance and we can't do a thing about it!
Stay jelly lads. God loves the side with the biggest airforce.
Its even worse than that its a shadow government civil war.
>y-you will have to rely on the american arms
>or the french arms
>or the brits
>b-but not us
Shooting yourself in the foot is the new German strategy?
Holly cow there it is gentlemen.
Goodbye EU tank production.
Quick question, but Poland has Leopards, ordered a big ol' batch of Abrams, still has T-72s serving though are phasing them out, and plans on getting K2s, how do they plan on keeping these myriad of tanks maintained since all of them use different parts, as well why is Poland seemingly so fixated on using a variety of different tank designs? It makes absolutely no sense to me.
We should literally give all T-72 and PT-91 to Ukraine ASAP.
Poland's tank force is going to be made up of Leopard 2s, Abrams, and K2s, it's not a whole ton of different vehicles really.
T72s, P91s and probably Leopards as well will all end up in Ukraine eventually.
They plan to replace Leo tanks with abrams over time due Germany didn't give them a license to have a massive repair hub in their country so they chould build their own version of Leo tank unlike abrams and k2
They plan to replace ALL their tanks with home-built K2PL. The Abrams are just a bridge until they get the K2 plant running.
That’s like decades in the future. Poland will be fielding an Abrams/K2 mechanized force until 2050 at the minimum.
Lol no you're moronic. The facilities are being built soon
>The facilities are being built soon
and?
South Korea is mass-producing K2s since a decade ago and isn't anywhere near replacing their older tanks.
projecting that South Korea will need another decade is optimistic.
so two decades for Poland to do the same, which is ~2050, is, if anything, optimistic
Tanks aren't cheap plastic crap you can produce in a few weeks anon.
The koreans started manufacturing k2's in 2014 and they've only made 260 tanks so far. The Turks made a similar deal with the Koreans in 2008 and they've manufactured a whopping 10 tanks so far.
You're delusional if you think Poland will somehow shit out 800 tanks in a few years, especially when the designing phase hasn't even started and the factories haven't been built.
Nah that's not really true. Abrams and K2s will work together, just in different units.
That should happen in 2050 till then it's going to be abrams/k2pl hell we might see a polish modification of an abrams till then so who knows
Technically the batch of the 116 used M1A2 FEP we are getting will be M1A2 PL as their configuration gonna change to suit us better. This is taking place during the restoration works that the US does on all tanks it exports.
>M1A2
those are M1A1
Not true. Abrams will be specifically based in the northeast near Kaliningrad. They were purchased for a specific role and terrain.
It turns out having just one country supply your tanks might suck if that country suddenly won't play ball when you need them. So diversification of supply chains is back on the menu even if it increases the complexity of maintenance somewhat.
All tanks other than Abrams and K2s will be phased out and Leopards will placed in deep reserve only to be used for training.
>having just one country supply your tanks might suck
Real countries make their own tanks.
Poland dissed Germany for no reason when they ordered Abrams.
Still being butt-hurt about WW2 is asinine.
Poland will probably only end up fielding Abrams and K2s, all of the Leos and Soviet shit is going to Ukraine, maybe by the end of the year if the US decides to supply them with Abrams in compensations. A little off topic, but I can’t wait to see Abrams in Cyprus in exchange for their T-80Us
Poland only intends to operate Abrams and K2's. T-72's and pt-91's were already getting phased out before the war, while Leo's were supposed to be either mothballed or transferred to teritorial defense. Now most of the soviet junk is already in Ukraine and they intend to get rid of all of it as the new toys arrive, Leopards will likely follow
Slowly phasing out most of the old systems.
>57mm
>85mm
HOLY KEK
Seriously what the frick still uses 85mm since the T-34/85?
It's still a gun. I imagine it might have a use tbh. A lot of ships use similar calibres or lower for low cost defence.
You can imagine a use yourself too.
Both were for TDF units with ancient USSR towed guns, 57mm S-60 AAA and 85mm D-44/48 AT guns.
End goal is to have a fleet of Polish-made K2s, and phase out all older systems.
the defense contracts with the koreans include manufacturing some of the stuff in poland
There is no Leopards tank coalition. Not even the Poles want to, even with all the fuss. Sweden and Finland is a 'maybe', but they request all of Europe to chime in before they do, and even then they will not send more than a small token amount.
Ok
poland thread
>polish men under American occupation
>they’re happy and living well
Is that supposed to be bad?
wtf that's me in the pic where did you find this
Did you forget the consistency of hazing in the soviet military that was passed down to many post soviet blocs?
if that's what's necessary to keep dicks out of polish men it's a tradition that earned its place.
>keeps dicks out of polish men
The hazing includes rapes and other sexual activities. Hazings are not specifically about beatings.
By raping them? I don't understand.
Glad to see a kręcenie wora enjoyer on this board.
I dare you to look it up.
so what software or device saves files under the name "IMG_YYYYMMDD_hhmmss_nnn.jpg" and is it just one homosexual spamming /k/?
HAHAHAHAHA
They tried so fricking hard not to ask for permission while pretending to totally want to do it because they were scared of a yes.
Send them boys, just don't cuck out like the brits and make it more than a dozen.
Why not send Ariete? Italy can upgrade to Abrams or Leopard.
war thunder told me it's shit
>ariete
*laughing anime girls*
Not enough of them. Challengers, Leopards and Abrams are the only realistic options.
There's not even enough Challengers, really. UK has 200 active, 200 in storage. US has 2500 active, 3000+ in storage.
How many Leopards across how many countries might be worth sending? A few hundred?
What are you smoking? Since they aren't dropping the line the uk needs to keep a decent number to upgrade to challenger 3s. They could send 70 at most.
New equipment doesn’t matter and is only going to become target practice for the Russians.
Just like NLAWs and Javelins just ended up on the black market and not in Russian tanks? LMAO how the frick are you getting paid for repeating this lame shit for the thousandth time?
>Pissbottles asking for gibs again
what a surprise.
if poland wants to go to war with russia it's free to do it itself. we ain't gonna get dragged into open conflict because of these gibs draining shitter cleaners and their pompous postering
Hello John Johnson from Ohio oblast.
If Ukraine says they need 300 modern tanks sends them 600 Leopard 1 instead, no one will miss them.
And where will you get 600 Leopard 1s?
Pretty sure that Chile and Brazil have several hundred modernized Leopard 1 units that they're looking to replace soon. US should offer them firesale priced Abrams.
How come the visegrad24 page is filled with news about poles threatening to send tanks and now sending tanks but not one mention of them actually getting the permission to do it first?
Visegrad24 is hilariously anti german to the point were they deliberately mistranslate German News articles they quote etc. The whole thing is pretty funny if you can ignore how many people actually believe their shit
frickbock yeah
btw russia will of course wait for ukrop baby coalition leopard offensive
Russia will win
>go turbo autism mode when the entire world is following Ramstein
>cave in only after the entire world shits all over you and bullies you into caving in
Stellar diplomacy, krauts
there is no "caving in". Germany never denied a an export request because there never was an export request. Poland lied about Germany like usual and morons bought their bullshit.
there should be the broken bodies of ziggers and vatniks under the wheels
krauts are just waiting for the US ukie mercs to get slaughtered and sign terms with Russia.
If only.
Imagine sending the second most aid worldwide and destroying your industry just to have ungrateful and butthurt slavs and anglos tell the whole world you only sent 500 helmets, kek
German zoomers used to want to send tanks the most, now they want to send them the least according to a recent poll and I'm fairly sure it's due to having to interact with seething slavs and angloids on social media
Yeah, globohomosexual is really fricking itself.
I absolutely love this. Just keep firing, Russians.
Poles must build a coalition of countries who demand reparations from Germany for their barbaric aggression, send Leopards to Ukraine and ditch pathetic German MIC.
I´m pretty sure Poland is the only country asking for gibs
you are wrong:
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-takes-italy-to-court-over-nazi-reparations/a-61645814
Those are just claims by individuals
This thread doesn't make any sense. I don't know how much russian shills are paid but I hope it's not too much.
I like how Americans do it
>yes yes europoors, send your Soviet and European made tanks to the Ukraine where they will get blown to shit with artillery
>we will replace your stuff with the cheap outdated abrams
>be like our slave colony Poland
>you don’t need your own military industrial complex no no no
>just be like PoleBlack folk and take loans to buy outdated equipment from the US
I really don't get the autism that's been surrounding the Leos. If Germany is concerned about the tank market if the rest of Europe sends their Leos, isn't Germany supposedly co-developing some hot shit new tank with France at the moment that would be a perfect replacement for the Leos?
You want your replacement right now, not in 20 years.
Only US can offer you mothballed Abrams right now.
>As of 2018 the first unit was estimated to roll off the assembly line in 2035
Those tanks won't start production before 2040
If poles send their leopards, Germans can replace them with new ones. Eventually.
If Poland refuses and starts buying used up abrams tanks there’s another reason for Germany to punish Poland for further ruining the European economy and buying from rivals.
poles already did this.
when poles sent their t-72, poles expected an unrealistic numbers of leo2s from germany.
a month later poland ordered abrams from the usa.
Well why are they still in the EU?
Its a literal leech nation, a colony of the US/UK that exists for the sole reason of being a pain in the ass to everyone around them.
ITT, vatniks absolutely seething, melting into puddles of concentrated cope and flailing around trying to sow discord because their agents in Germany could not do their job
Poles give enough reasons to hate them as it is without russian interference.
the us can buy those T-84 from Thailand and offer them Abrams as a replacement
the war has been going for a year training time isn't really a consideration. Just send abrahams directly to Ukrain. what difference does it make if Russia is fighting western made stuff sent by the west or eastern made stuff sent by the west. I know logistics is a huge factor but Ukrain got like every single APC ever made so only way they ever make repairs work is if they have a very lean purchesing line for spare parts from the west. Don't think repair crewmen is that much of a intrest as they should be able to do thier job just reading the f-ing manual
The problem is Abrams maintenance requirements.
If this chart is to be believed, the U.S. just sent ALL of its Strykers to Ukraine (90 or 100?, if I recall correctly).
Something's not quite adding up, but it would be quite bolc if that is exactly what the U.S. did.
It's a list of Thailands millitary arsenal, apparently they have bought a ton of strykers in the past yes