Pistols

Can we get an F for pistol braces
>https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-new-rule-address-stabilizing-braces-accessories-used-convert

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    lol dont care
    theyre in common use and legal

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      By definition 10 years in prison per, but ok retard.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        post guns chud

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >fedposter asking people to post pictures of guns

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >no guns doom posting chud
            Feds can my suck my cock and balls. I buy weed from the weed store and feds do nothing

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Tens of millions of them in circulation and owned by millions. Not to mention the bump stock ruling just got overturned. It's only going to be a matter of time until there's a massive lawsuit against this

        post guns chud

        Checked

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Massive lawsuit
          >Trying to defeat your opponents by playing by the rules
          Yep I'm sure gun owners will win this time, just like we defeated every single previous federal law... oh wait

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Fuck off blackpiller, we are winning hard, half the country is now constitutional carry. States have started taking chips out if NFA although small ones. State and fed laws getting yeeted post Bruen.
            This is a good timeline anon.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yup, in 5-15 years it will probably be overturned.
          You just get to sit on your felonies until then, and hopefully don't serve most of that 5-15 in a federal prison eaiting till the courts work it out

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            How long did it take to beat bumpstock ban? 5 years? No where close to common use. Trannies cope and seethe.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >bump stock ban overturned in 4 years
            Eh, I wouldn't want to be the test case but it won't be long. And many states won't help feds enforce it.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The guidelines as written turn a 20" rifle with a brace into an SBR. Good luck getting a jury to read theough the in and outs of that shit show.

            But don't let me interupt your doomer trolling. I know you don't actually believe what your typing. You're just trying to agitate.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              No, you misread it.
              If the rifle OAL is 26"+, but has a barrel under 16", then it's an SBR, but it the barrel is 16"+ then it's a rifle regardless of brace, stock, or nothing.
              So basically most 12.5 -15.9" barreled pistols are insta SBRs now.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous
              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's not a >16" barrel

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How many m-lok spaces are on your 16" rifle, assuming you have one?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Look how close the muzzle is to the handguard, it's 15.9".

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's a 14.5" with a long unwealded flash hider.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Either those m-lok ports are not to spec, or my 8 port 16" rifle isn't really 16". BCM lied to me, bro.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >"Other" are illegal now
                >even thought they aren't concealable.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >16 inch troy upper
                https://worldoftroy.com/supg-a4s-16bt-00-spc-a4-16-5.56-upper-reciever.html
                How fucking ironic

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Think about what you’re saying Anon:

            > Step 1: have guns that will get you sent to prison
            > Step 2: you get in trouble for the guns that you have

            Remember— at this point you still have guns. Do you:

            > 3a) go to prison and accept a ruined life
            > 3b) accept a ruined life but do something else, maybe involving the guns that you have?

            Idk, tough one. But that’s the choice that a lot of people will be asked to make I guess

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              STEP 4: WASTE THE THIEVES THAT WOULD BREAK INTO YOUR HOME TO STEAL YOUR PROPERTY BECUASE THEY DONT LIKE YOU OWNING IT

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Shabbat shalom

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        who is going to book you for it?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Any LEO.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >implying cops are up to date on laws

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Good thing nobody is aware you can just slap a rifle stock on a pistol.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        BY DEFINITION ALL FIREARM LAWS ARE NULL AND VOID

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          ok cool sweetie remember to stay hydrated.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Holy shit you're a gay

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        By definition it's a pistol. Atf just making stuff up. Atf gonna get killed in court

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Lawsuits already in place you fucking garden gnome cunt shit eater

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Get in the oven garden gnome.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Suck on dog dick and die atfmoron if the government wants to get some of this smoke then chlorine gas and napalm is in their future

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fpbp. This will get smashed in court. Atf can suck my balls again and again.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    F

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I've just been using a stock all this time anyways its not like anyone is ever going to check.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm pretty sure this rule is going to same route as the bump stock ban and lawsuit in the fifth circuit.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Which took how long to finally get a temporary restraining order? And when it gets kicked up to an En banc, it will be overturned and the law will be in effect again

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They finally did it huh?
    All the fedposters in here were spamming that bit will never take effect, probably to lul us into a false sense of security.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >false sense of security
      no john, you are the fedposters

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, correct.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I kept telling you fuckers.
      They said they would do it in December, they missed it by only 13 days.
      They intentionally delayed it until after the midterms to deceive voters.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Feels like a fed post

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Nothing in this rule bans stabilizing braces or the use of stabilizing braces on pistols.

    the government can't decide what was going on in my brain when I bought a gun

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, but then you use this handy dandy little sheet to see if the braced pistol is actually an SBR

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous
      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/H77jxPU.png

        what shitty shilling, that sheet isn't even part of the new "rule"

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shall.
    Not.
    Be.
    Infringed.
    gays.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >been infringed longer than you've been alive

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    listen here, someone better post a picture of their felonies right now or the dog gets it

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      go ahead, it ain't my dog.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Okay.

      Still have 120 days to take it off.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is all the gov needs to start busting down the doors of conservatives or start putting the screws on them financially, all to increase government revenue which is much needed.

    >oh hey anon we see you bought a pistol with a brace in 2021
    >we don't have a record of it being registered with the ATF, so please pay us money or face consequences
    >120 days pass
    >anon you didn't comply, we are now informing your employer that you have an illegal weapon

    It's going to happen.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you shouldn't drink the koolaid straight, at least mix it with some nihilism

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >so please pay us money or face consequences
      They're waving the $200 stamp tax, so you can register it as a SBR for free.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The amnesty period has ended.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          120 days from today

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't think they are allowed to waive the fee. It's written into the law and says it on the stamp.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They would need those fees to hire more overweight pencil pushers if they ever hope to process all of those millions of applications.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I don't think they are allowed to waive the fee.
          they are.

          The amnesty period has ended.

          no it hasn't.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Can the president work for free?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Last one did.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No he didn't. He donated his paycheck but he legally had to receive the funds.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Technically he got paid but donated the entire salary.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They arn't allowed to infringe on the 2nd or burn children alive either.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          they're not. That just makes this mess even better. Their attempt to trick people into registering with "free SBR" is illegal.

          >The rule allows for a 120-day period for manufacturers, dealers, and individuals to register tax-free any existing NFA short-barreled rifles covered by the rule.

          Definitely not happy about any of this, but at the very least it sounds like I'll be able to SBR a gun I was already planning to SBR without the $200 tax.

          >not happy about this, but I'll do the thing the ATF wants anyway
          can you wait to SBR it until this at least gets challenged?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >they're not. That just makes this mess even better. Their attempt to trick people into registering with "free SBR" is illegal.
            Pretty much every time something has been retroactively found to be an NFA item, people are given the option to register it without needing to pay the tax. Only exceptions I'm aware of pertain to machine guns post 1986.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              this poster is a lying fed

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Name one time they haven't that isn't dealing with post 86 machine guns.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >demeaning federal agents
                vatnik scum

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Wew lad how many gallons of estrogen are the Wumao feeding you?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous
          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Can I wait to SBR it until this at least gets challenged?
            Yes.
            >Will I?
            No.
            I think we all knew braces would get regulated eventually. It was too good to be true. I don't think this has any chance to be overturned any time soon, so I'm not holding my breath. I'll take advantage of the tax-free SBR and be on my merry way.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No state or city cops are going to risk their lives enforcing this shit, and the feds don't have nearly enough people to do that. The few people they have would all get shot in the process, or it would lead to a McVeigh-tier retalliation that would blow them the fuck out for another three decades.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They don't need to. It'll be a tack on charge for other things if you're on their radar. All they have to do is send a threatening letter.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Correct. If they want you for anything else they will use this brace felony to punish you further.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        yes they will
        they are fucking crazy and evil

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >busting down the doors of conservatives
      I wish a bro would.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They already do. They did it to a former US president.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Fucking clown wouldn't return classified documents concerning allies nuclear weapons programs so he could either sell them to Saudi Arabia or China, dealers choice.
          I get that the idiot in charge right now is being lambasted for the same thing, but at least he had the wherewithal to send them the fuck back.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            All politicians are corrupt shitheads and should be executed. Start over with a whole new group.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >sell them
            Good god, this is pathetic trolling. Come back and try again when you can pretend to be subtle.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You're a delusional brainswashed clown. I'm not going to bother with more than ad hominem because you're hopeless. Like some idiot spewing moronic talking points to strangers at the bus stop. Go be homeless somewhere.

              Slack-jaw samefag can't handle the bullshit corrupt politicians of his choosing are bullshit and corrupt, like literally every other example of the type.
              2018:
              >SAUDI CROWN PRINCE BOASTED THAT JARED KUSHNER WAS “IN HIS POCKET”
              https://theintercept.com/2018/03/21/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman/
              2022:
              >Six months after leaving the White House, Jared Kushner secured a $2 billion investment from a fund led by the Saudi crown prince
              https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/10/us/jared-kushner-saudi-investment-fund.html

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Don't you have some dilating to do, D&C shill?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Don't you have some politician cock to suck, mouthbreather?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Protip: you can dislike someone without outright lying about them.
                The fact that you don't do this indicates that you're just some chud trying to troll.
                4/10, got me to respond though.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The crown prince is an evil bad man that almost certainly helped fund the 9/11 attack and is probably behind the Las Vegas country concert shooting. So what? Israel said America was extremely easy for it to control. North Korea said they would obliterate us. Iran said sinking an aircraft carrier would be easy for them. China definitely has Biden in his pocket and politicians are almost universally corrupt. The facist elitist ones being the worst and those are most densely found on the left. Go suck a trannies dick. I don't have any respect for you, none, not even at a basic level of humanity that I would show a stray dog. I think you're an idiot and everything about your existence is offensive to me like a fly that somehow flew inside. Is that clear enough for you or are you just going to keep trying to derail the thread about braces.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Israel
                >China
                >"Jared Kushner's company under renewed scrutiny over Chinese and Israeli deals"
                https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/08/jared-kushners-company-under-renewed-scrutiny-over-chinese-and-israeli-deals
                LOL

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >As soon as Biden was in power he started abusing law enforcement power to go after political opponents.
                It's not news. We all know that.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                DRUMPF!

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >theguardian.com
                discarded

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're a delusional brainswashed clown. I'm not going to bother with more than ad hominem because you're hopeless. Like some idiot spewing moronic talking points to strangers at the bus stop. Go be homeless somewhere.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You're mind is completely broken dude.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I'm sure Jared got that $2b because he's just very frugal with money.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Lol you fucking stupid leftist cuck. You must be thinking of joe biden. Three caches of classified documents now theyve found lmfao fuck you.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The lock the fbi broke, was their own lock. Think about that for a second. They had already been there and called it good. Fucking misinformed dipshit.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >The lock the fbi broke, was their own lock.
              LOL imagine being this braindead.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Imagine being so retarded that you fail to understand this attack on Trump backfired horribly and just exposed that the executive branch has horrific opsec.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Imagine being such a cuck that you willingly overlook a criminal holding nuclear weapons related documents and refusing to return them for "some reason", just so you can keep sucking his cock.
              You're like a battered wife who keeps going back because "YOU DONT KNOW HIM LIKE I DO!"
              The executive branch having zero opsec is another, separate issue that is pervasive.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Imagine being such a cuck that you willingly overlook a criminal holding nuclear weapons related documents and refusing to return them for "some reason", just so you can keep sucking his cock.
              You're like a battered wife who keeps going back because "YOU DONT KNOW HIM LIKE I DO!"
              The executive branch having zero opsec is another, separate issue that is pervasive.

              This thread is about braces not the geriatric gays you guys suck off

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Happening to a current US president but he didn't chimp out over it

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    F

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Executive branch agency just magicking new laws
    post guns gay, nobody real actually follows these 'rules'

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So what you're telling me is that if I build some pistols with braces over the next 3 months I can register them for free as sbr's and not pay the $200 right?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, potentially.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The $200 isn't the problem. That's the part nobody gives a fuck about.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I give a fuck because it means I can have a legal sbr for free

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >legal sbr
          One that enters a registry and requires notifying the ATF every time you change address or cross state lines. The $200 was equal to over $3000 when it was introduced in the middle of the fucking Great Depression. Nobody but minwage children give a fuck about that requirement now.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Need to fill out a permission slip to cross state lines
          >Can't let anyone use it if I'm not present or it's a felony (home defense, borrow for competition, etc.)
          >Slippery slope "don't worry we won't abuse the registry" bullshit like CA but federally
          Yeah no fucking thanks.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >legal sbr
            One that enters a registry and requires notifying the ATF every time you change address or cross state lines. The $200 was equal to over $3000 when it was introduced in the middle of the fucking Great Depression. Nobody but minwage children give a fuck about that requirement now.

            So I shouldn't register the gun I definitely don't have as an sbr if I were to get one?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It's not clear if it's free or not

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This weekend go to your local fun store and buy a new virgin Anderson lower for $50 or whatever.
              Put a $15 buffer tube on it.
              Buy a $30 knockoff SBA3 on ebay.
              Register that.

              Congrats, you've got a $100 SBR, you're legally covered for any pistol uppers you may or may not have, and if they spin it into a "turn in your shit" situation you give them the POS bullshit lower and skate.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Are Anderson lowers still that cheap? Haven't bought a new ar in like 4 years

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Pretty cheap on kygunco, they go for like 34 dollars (I don't know what the shipping is though)

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Closer to 60 now before tax. And you need to have measurements of the complete gun (so no swapping it) and engrave it with some info sob other anon is a moron.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you tell them the barrel length and caliber on the form 1... so i guess this works if you want a bunch of the same gun, but not if you are a normal person with a 556 and 300BO pistol

                So what happens if you've got only one lower but multiple uppers in different calibers and lengths?
                Is there not a provision for that situation?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There is not. You're expected to use the right caliber at least.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Is there not a provision for that situation?
                Not unless they all maintain the same OAL and caliber

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Honestly probably not, I imagine they're closer to like $65 or $75.
                Same boat, but that's not going to stop me from going out tomorrow and doing this exact thing.
                I am 100% certain this goes to litigation almost immediately, so I'm not signing on to some bullshit list until it gets fleshed out in five years.
                I'll pay the 200 beans per unit if it comes down to it then, but until that time I'll just separate my offensive uppers from my lowers and keep them with the registered unit to cover my ass.
                Easy peasy.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                you tell them the barrel length and caliber on the form 1... so i guess this works if you want a bunch of the same gun, but not if you are a normal person with a 556 and 300BO pistol

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              DO YOU SEND A LETTER TO SONY LISTING THE PHONES AND TV’S YOU HAVE?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Giving in and letting the government fuck your ass and track you do you can consoom. Good shit.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's going to be really tricky to find braces starting very soon. But if you have one you could SBR as many lowers as you want

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        > It's going to be really tricky to find braces starting very soon.
        You may be right but think about the counterargument which goes:

        Most, if not all, people who want braces would prefer stocks (folding or non). They were just getting braces to comply. With this new rule and the $200 waived, the advantage of having a brace vs a stock is pretty much nullified. Therefore demand for braces will drop. Supply will be about the same, so pistols brace prices should plummet since they’re in stock but nobody wants them anymore.

        But on the other hand, maybe a lot of people will scramble for braces now, as you say, BECAUSE they’re about to be banned.

        Who knows. Guess we’ll find out

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >nobody wants them anymore.
          I'm going to buy the more expensive ones when they become cheap because there will almost certainly be ten lawsuits filed with regard to this on Tuesday and braces week remain legal for like five more years till it shakes out.
          Why the fuck would I sign on for a registry willingly?
          It was never about the $200 for me, it was about needing a permission slip to cross state lines and inviting government control over me more than absolutely necessary to exist in our modern society.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't think the brace part even matters

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Is it? It's unintentionally unclear if only pistol braced pistols would be allowed to become SBR's for free.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Can someone explain what I have to do for this free service registration?
    Do I have to go to a gun shop and file for a sbr tax stamp? How does the process work?
    Could I just move my upper and brace to different lowers and register like 10 sbrs using the same upper/brace?
    Should I even bother, or just tell them to fuck off and not register anything?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Can someone explain what I have to do for this free service registration?
      Dont. Not complying takes no effort.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    First, here is an actual link to the rule:
    https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/factoringcriteriaforfirearmswithattachedstabilizingbracespdf/download

    I would suggest jumping to page 102.
    > In making the determination of whether surface area “allows” for shoulder firing, ATF will not
    attempt to precisely measure the surface area or make the determination based on the
    existence of any minimum surface area. Instead, ATF will consider whether there is any
    surface area on the firearm that can be used to shoulder fire the weapon. If the firearm
    includes surface area that can be used for shoulder firing the weapon, the weapon
    potentially qualifies as a “rifle”; in contrast, if the weapon does not include such surface
    area, then it does not qualify as a “rifle.” To assess whether a potential rifle is in fact a
    rifle, ATF would then consider the other factors described below.

    The ATF has set up rules that allow them to make entirely subjective decisions. See above and they have introduced other criteria such as eye relief. So if you put an LPVO on your braced pistol, that would make it a rifle but a red dot might not.

    This is an elitist favorite, make the laws selectively enforceable to sidestep equal protection under the law. That is why rules like this go right through me and should be illegal.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Jesus, this is even worse than imagined.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        LOL WHY JUST IGNORE IT AND IT SUDDENLY DOESNT APPLY TO YOU

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      (6) Final Rule: Consideration of marketing or promotional materials and likely
      use of the weapon in the general community.
      In addition, the NPRM discussed how ATF looks to a weapon’s objective design
      features that can confirm or undermine the manufacturer’s stated intent. Id. at 30827.
      The NPRM also provided, that “regardless of the points accrued” on the Worksheet 4999,
      “efforts to advertise, sell, or otherwise distribute ‘short-barreled rifles’ as such will result
      in a classification as a ‘rifle’. . . because there is no longer any question that the intent is
      for the weapon to be fired from the shoulder.” Id. at 30834; see also id. at 30829 (noting
      that certain firearms would not be classified as rifles “unless there [was] evidence that the
      manufacturer or maker expressly intended to design the weapon to be fired from the
      shoulder”). The rule, therefore, clarifies that marketing or promotional materials
      indicating the intended use of the weapon and any information demonstrating how the
      weapon with the attachment is likely to be used by the general community shall also be
      considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be
      fired from the shoulder.

      This one is my personal favorite because as soon as any youtube entity that is a paid influencer shoulders something, the ATF can say that it is a rifle. Oh, and if you think the ATF won't post those youtube videos themselves to prove their case, you're an idiot.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      (6) Final Rule: Consideration of marketing or promotional materials and likely
      use of the weapon in the general community.
      In addition, the NPRM discussed how ATF looks to a weapon’s objective design
      features that can confirm or undermine the manufacturer’s stated intent. Id. at 30827.
      The NPRM also provided, that “regardless of the points accrued” on the Worksheet 4999,
      “efforts to advertise, sell, or otherwise distribute ‘short-barreled rifles’ as such will result
      in a classification as a ‘rifle’. . . because there is no longer any question that the intent is
      for the weapon to be fired from the shoulder.” Id. at 30834; see also id. at 30829 (noting
      that certain firearms would not be classified as rifles “unless there [was] evidence that the
      manufacturer or maker expressly intended to design the weapon to be fired from the
      shoulder”). The rule, therefore, clarifies that marketing or promotional materials
      indicating the intended use of the weapon and any information demonstrating how the
      weapon with the attachment is likely to be used by the general community shall also be
      considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be
      fired from the shoulder.

      This one is my personal favorite because as soon as any youtube entity that is a paid influencer shoulders something, the ATF can say that it is a rifle. Oh, and if you think the ATF won't post those youtube videos themselves to prove their case, you're an idiot.

      This is a blatant violation of the 14th amendment it's absurd. It is 100% designed and intended to allow selective enforcement.

      You fuckers need to learn all the amendments, not just he 2nd.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >See above and they have introduced other criteria such as eye relief. So if you put an LPVO on your braced pistol, that would make it a rifle but a red dot might not.
      Because there is some shadow of a doubt that you're using the brace as intended with the red dot. With the eye relief of the LPVO on the other hand, it's clear that you're intending to use the brace as a stock.

      (6) Final Rule: Consideration of marketing or promotional materials and likely
      use of the weapon in the general community.
      In addition, the NPRM discussed how ATF looks to a weapon’s objective design
      features that can confirm or undermine the manufacturer’s stated intent. Id. at 30827.
      The NPRM also provided, that “regardless of the points accrued” on the Worksheet 4999,
      “efforts to advertise, sell, or otherwise distribute ‘short-barreled rifles’ as such will result
      in a classification as a ‘rifle’. . . because there is no longer any question that the intent is
      for the weapon to be fired from the shoulder.” Id. at 30834; see also id. at 30829 (noting
      that certain firearms would not be classified as rifles “unless there [was] evidence that the
      manufacturer or maker expressly intended to design the weapon to be fired from the
      shoulder”). The rule, therefore, clarifies that marketing or promotional materials
      indicating the intended use of the weapon and any information demonstrating how the
      weapon with the attachment is likely to be used by the general community shall also be
      considered in determining whether the weapon is designed, made, and intended to be
      fired from the shoulder.

      This one is my personal favorite because as soon as any youtube entity that is a paid influencer shoulders something, the ATF can say that it is a rifle. Oh, and if you think the ATF won't post those youtube videos themselves to prove their case, you're an idiot.

      >implying the shooting community isn't so completely overflowing with retards who would do that without the ATF needing to false flag it
      >he's too young to remember people getting mad at all the retards who wouldn't stop doing exactly that, which lead to the first time the ATF went back and declared a braced gun to be an SBR the moment you shouldered it

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Oh you may be misunderstanding my point. Let me be clearer. I think braces should never have been legal and I feel the same way about bump stocks and binary triggers. I think they're bullshit and designed to subvert the law. The law is also bullshit and should not exist in the first place. So whatever. I'm not passionate on a brace and don't own one.

        However, when a rule reads like:
        >Can't have surface that would allow shouldering but the ATF will not define a minimum surface area allowed.
        >Can't have an optic that isn't designed to be used at pistol length but no eye relief is defined.
        >Can't have any promotional material showing shouldered use but we live in an age of youtube influencers.
        I have a serious problem because it's more subjective selectively enforceable allows that elites will not be subjected to. It's a rule that's only there for you and I. It gives them the power to sidestep the 14th amendment and create an environment where laws are not simple and a culture exists in a subjective grey area giving them complete power. That is how they role and by them I mean specifically the likes of the Clintons, the Bidens, the Obama's and so on.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I think braces should never have been legal and I feel the same way about bump stocks and binary triggers.
          I stopped reading there.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >I think braces should never have been legal and I feel the same way about bump stocks and binary triggers. I think they're bullshit and designed to subvert the law.
          When did you learn you were gay?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah even the kak blade braces are fucked. Its funny seems like every dumb motherfucker in this thread did not watch fuddbusters video on this matter. Some idiot even shared the checklist lmao.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-new-rule-address-stabilizing-braces-accessories-used-convert

    I am guess it is too late to get a brace adapter?

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wasps swarm and attack anyone who brushes their nest. You're still an idiot for knowing this and poking a wasp's nest with a stick.
    People were using pistol braces to circumvent the restrictions on SBRs. The feds have realized this and are moving to close the loophole. That's why there are so many weird criteria and it seems so selective - it's designed to weed out the people using it to circumvent the SBR tax stamp while still allowing people to use it as an accessibility tool.
    None of this would have happened if people didn't openly admit to using accessibility tools to circumvent the tax stamp. Idiots are why you can't have nice things.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >if you're going to exercise your rights against infringement, do it on the downlow broseph!
      Bracefags are cucks, but you're even more cuck than them.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        keep complying goy

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >these things should be illegal!
          >LOL KEEP COMPLYING GOY!
          Do you not see why you're a clown, Mister Clown?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nothing should be illegal gay

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You don't make things legal by complying with them or putting on the public face of obeying, you utter mongoloid. How do you think the potheads got so far with their cause? They forced everyone to not care through noncompliance!
              Cucks like you are literally going to set us back because you want to look squeaky clean until object X is legal.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >noooooooo why aren't you risking up to 10 years in prison and your ability to legally purchase guns over this?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I said nothing of the sort moronbrain

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If you consider the ATF a totalitarian oppressor, then it is time to become an underground resistance. Emphasis on underground.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >underground
          No? Why underground? Either you prove to the oppressor that you're not going to be oppressed, or you hide in the catacombs for centuries until, by sheer fortune, the Emperor agrees with you.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Anon meant KYSYS

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This "rule" is designed to allow 100% subjective enforcement.
          That is a blatant violation of the 14th amendment.
          They don't care because they are happy to abuse power.
          The fact that you don't care if pathetic.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The wasp swarm are the people trying to circumvent and the nest is the notion of firearm rights in general.
      ATF are the nest-kickers, not the people who notice that there seems to be a group of busybodies out there who want to make sure everyone avoids mixing their types of cloth.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nah, ATF is the wasps. You go into their jurisdiction, you suffer extreme pain or even death by a thousand attacks. You leave them alone, they leave you alone - but they have an interesting definition of 'alone' that happens to include leaving your shit to them when they fancy it.
        You (or rather, those who had the genius idea to use pistol braces to circumvent the SBR stamps) are the nest kickers - 'oh, I'm strong, I can survive kicking this wasp's nest, watch me.'

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >You leave them alone, they leave you alone
          Hahahahaha

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Idiots are why you can't have nice things.
      All those idiots get free SBRs.

      https://i.imgur.com/bYDm8LJ.jpg

      Can we get an F for pistol braces
      >https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-new-rule-address-stabilizing-braces-accessories-used-convert

      I wish people would think before they posted, or at least read most of the fucking document.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >People were using pistol braces to circumvent the restrictions on SBRs
      And nobody gave a shit because they were purposefully making their rifle less effective in exchange for it still not being concealable.

      Assholes using wish.com giggle switches to zipper patrol cops are a crime issue. Turning velocity into noise on your 5.56 rifle is not.

      If the ATF browses this hell hole, I hope they read this. Go fight some fucking crime and leave working class stiffs alone.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You're right on all counts but they make too much money off of crime. Why would they stop it?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Go fight some fucking crime and leave working class stiffs alone
        morons would shoot them though

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Assholes using wish.com giggle switches to zipper patrol cops are a crime issue
        No that’s a cleansing not an issue

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >while still allowing people to use it as an accessibility tool.
      Are there ANY examples of this, at all? I'm pretty sure if you are a disabled person actually used pistol braces legitimately as braces, you're shit out of luck today.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        My friend was in a wheelchair because of cerebral palsy. He couldn't really talk and just just flailed his arms about excitedly when he tried to speak.
        There is no way he could have held on to an AR if it wasn't strapped to his arm by a brace.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Non-burger here, but would it not still be possible to just attach a brace to a standard 16" carbine and get the same benefit, while being legally compliant?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It would be significantly heavier and harder to use.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Than what? What barrel length was he using? I've never one-handed an AR, but I can't imagine a couple extra inches of barrel length would make it unusable.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >What barrel length was he using?
                Not who you replied to but yes
                >but I can't imagine a couple extra inches of barrel length would make it unusable.
                For a normal person no, for a cripple yes. Going from a 10.5” to a 16” could add a 1lb or so. Steel is heavy. It’s also a matter or leverage. The longer it gets the more unwieldy it is trying to hold it in front of you. Picture lifting a 3kg weight straight in front of you. Then tie that 3kg weight to a 1m rod and hold it in front of you. What’s harder? Exaggerated, but the same concept.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Non-burger here, but would it not still be possible to just attach a brace to a standard 16" carbine and get the same benefit, while being legally compliant?
            Are you asking if someone that needs a brace due to physical disability could just it on an AR with a 16" barrel making the whole thing a non-issue? Yes, probably. It would be easier to just ban all braces everywhere for any reason.,

            If you're not disabled, just use a proper stock if you have a 16" barrel. Nobody uses a brace as a brace. They're stocks. That's why they're getting banned. The problem is the ATF approved them for people with disabilities who are legally protected. So if they just outright banned them, it would be a violation of those peoples civil rights. That puts the ATF in a bad spot where everyone is thumbing their noses at them because they have braces but the legitimate use of the brace as a brace is legally protected.
            The ATF's solution is this overly complicated and very contrived subjective rule that will allow them to selectively enforce the law. That's also illegal because it violates equal protection under the law clause of the 14th amendment.
            Eventually this will be challenged in court and the ATF will likely lose. In the meantime, someones life will be ruined because suddenly they can be thrown in prison of an item they've legally owned for years.

            The reason people want shorter barrels is usually because they're adding a suppressor and want to keep overall length down or they want legal privileges associated with a pistol but not a rifle.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That's pretty much what I was asking, yes. I was directly responding to the other anon. I know that generally speaking, braces were a way to get around SBR laws, that actually lasted longer than I would have thought it would. But yeah, it's obviously bullshit for the people that bought them legally and now have to register them anyway

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                and then there's this

                braces aren't just for ARs

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Pretty sure the complex legal standards are BECAUSE of the 14th, not in violation of it.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No they're because of the ADA.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Shit, a court case on these things might take the ADA down with it. I don't trust the current court to JUST rule on SBRs.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If that was the case I think a bigger deal would have gone around about it, I don't think they would dare to touch the ADA because it would look bad on them if they did.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                One of the concurring opinions on the abortion ruling suggested they go after gay marriage and contraceptives next. I don't think they'd care about the hit on their image, especially since it might get in the way of the 2nd Amendment.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Conservatives are such fucking retards.

                Instead of protecting the second amendment, they’re just crippling the rights of women and gays. Regardless of how much you hate fags and women, it literally doesn’t affect you if they are able to legally get married, but they still won’t protect gun rights or anything that DOES actually matter

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >people are just now realizing conservatives dont give a shit about americans and just themselves and their rich buddies
                lmao

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No one realizes anything like that. They still gonna go vote like it matters. If it did they wouldn't let us do it.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The hardest gun control measure that completely banned all gun sales permanently passed in my state with like 20k votes. Votes do matter, the issue is that most Americans have sub 6th grade reading comprehension and will vote republican down the ballot and then will wonder why their state is burning down and why their social security and medicare is gone.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >that completely banned all gun sales permanently passed in my state
                Lets play a game of: overly dramatic retard or turd worlder?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oregon. Measure 114 de facto banned all gun sales permanently until further notice.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's not even in effect

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Dramatic retard, than you for clarifying.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Votes do matter
                not when the machines are rigged they don't

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And now we're a schizo thread

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Reminder that Russians hacked the voting machines in 2016

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                moron. I pray everyday for the abolishment of medicare and social security. You need to learn to read a room

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're happy that you paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for boomers and got nothing back? You plan on working until 80?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I had the foresight to plan for my own retirement. I also don't push the responsibility of caring for myself onto younger generations who have no say in the matter. Fuck Medicare. Fuck social security. Fuck taxes. Most of all fuck grifters like you who cannot envision a world where govt doesn't steal from others to take care of themselves.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >foresight to plan for my own retirement.
                I'm not planning for shit so I'm glad you have.
                When we're retirement age and can't work anymore, me and the other destitute fucks will just kill you and loot your house for a few more days of food and whatever we can get pawning off your nice shit to sell cheaply to some assholes.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Oooh soooo tough. I’m really scared of some broke 70 year olds. Post guns.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You know retirement funds typically sit in financial institutions right? Fuck youre an edgy retard

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You plan on working until 80?
                55 actually. Because I can plan ahead. I want social security and Medicare to fail as soon as possible because they are poorly run Ponzi schemes

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Fuck you gay. How many widowed women you think rely on that shit.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not him but I heard McDonald's was hiring. The only people who deserve SS are literal retards who aren't aware of their surroundings and can't speak. It shouldn't be so boomers can put more gas in their new boats and F150s to drive to Academy and buy up all the bulk ammo while I'm wagecucking away and getting money stolen out of my paycheck to pay for all that.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                taxes slice open your paycheck and inflation finishes it off

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Maybe their husbands should have planned better. There’s no way you can honestly defend SS

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                kys, commie. have you seen how much federal taxes eat away from your paycheck? allowing existing companies to establish a wide variety of competitive and cost effective private health insurance plans would solve the problem overnight. government funded healthcare is simply not needed if a competitive private sector exists to provide for the people. grandfather the stragglers and let the people do with their earnings as they please.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Been that way since the 1800s bud
                If these conservatives weren't actual cuckolds, we'd still be proud slaveowners and gun owners without restrictions

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >they’re just crippling the rights of women and gays.
                Fuck I wish they were that cool. The 19th amendment was a mistake

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Based ATF creating felons out of potentially millions of disabled veterans and gun owners. What percent of brace owners are even going to hear about this ruling? Lol lmao even

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          braces aren't just for ARs

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Anyone now he's screwed, right? I don't think you read my question.
          The comment I replied to suggested that the ATF was going after people using braces as a loophole, while protecting their use for the disabled. I questioned that, since I am unaware of any commercially available pistol brace that didn't get whacked today.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            First off, I dont' know if I'm being reversed trolled here or what since literally nobody is commenting on an AR being strapped to someone that flails their arms about. Secondly, I read your question. I'll say what I've already posted like a dozen times.
            >This law is written 100% for subjective use allowing for selective enforcement.
            Basically if you're physically deformed they aren't going to charge you, unless they want to.

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Who cares? The moment they try to actually enforce this it's going to court. The grabbers are then have to either back off or risk putting another 2a case on Clarence Thomas's desk. If they wanna roll the dice on such a crappy bet, let them

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Also, never forget that the Democrats intentionally postponed doing this until after the midterm elections as a strategic move to deceive voters.

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Looks like we're going rhettmode boys

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He's finally redeemed
      https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/09/03/a-chin-stock-for-ar-15-no-shoulder-needed/

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This looks comfy unironically though

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >protip, it's great with a .308 FAL or G3 pistol

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Travis Haley? Crazy q anon living in a gated community afraid of college kids with green hair.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, the good old days honestly. I had an AR build like that and the cheek weld definitely made it accurate but didn't do much for follow up shots.
      Now a cheek weld with a tensioned sling... you may as well have a stock.

      The real question is do I invest in cheek weld company? Or do I just buy a bullpup or rifle and have a more effective weapon at my disposable compliments of the ATF helping me make better decisions?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        My cousin had one of these chin weld stocks

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Abraham Lincoln was a literal gay and the worst President who led us into civil and destroyed the 10th amendment. Trump should have taken that fags picture down and put his own up, in gold. He was a way better President.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The Lincoln cultists are well entrenched in the so called conservative right. I reddit beginning to think that destroying the Lincoln narrative is the key to restoring the Jeffersonian Republic.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That is still an SBR according to

      First, here is an actual link to the rule:
      https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/factoringcriteriaforfirearmswithattachedstabilizingbracespdf/download

      I would suggest jumping to page 102.
      > In making the determination of whether surface area “allows” for shoulder firing, ATF will not
      attempt to precisely measure the surface area or make the determination based on the
      existence of any minimum surface area. Instead, ATF will consider whether there is any
      surface area on the firearm that can be used to shoulder fire the weapon. If the firearm
      includes surface area that can be used for shoulder firing the weapon, the weapon
      potentially qualifies as a “rifle”; in contrast, if the weapon does not include such surface
      area, then it does not qualify as a “rifle.” To assess whether a potential rifle is in fact a
      rifle, ATF would then consider the other factors described below.

      The ATF has set up rules that allow them to make entirely subjective decisions. See above and they have introduced other criteria such as eye relief. So if you put an LPVO on your braced pistol, that would make it a rifle but a red dot might not.

      This is an elitist favorite, make the laws selectively enforceable to sidestep equal protection under the law. That is why rules like this go right through me and should be illegal.

      because the buffer tube provides surface area which could allow shouldering

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No, there's exception if it's a functional part of the action.

        Conservatives are such fucking retards.

        Instead of protecting the second amendment, they’re just crippling the rights of women and gays. Regardless of how much you hate fags and women, it literally doesn’t affect you if they are able to legally get married, but they still won’t protect gun rights or anything that DOES actually matter

        You are brainwashed. Everything you said is false thinking rife with stereotypes and bigotry.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Everything you said is false

          point to the falsehoods

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I dont consider ATF employees as human beings and they should be treated like sick, dangerous rabies infected animals

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Vatnik scum

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        ...sobbed the glowie as he bit into another cheeseburger.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        yes the people that want the American people to be well armed and equipped against foreign threats are clearly hostile foreign agents.

        thats the Russians ultimate goal, make the Average American Citizen into a machinegunnner/sharpshooter/grenadier

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The Internet Research Group shills want you to do a terrorism. A thread like this is their hunting ground while they look for a sucker to destabilize USA and try to make it too distracted to help Ukraine.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            why do they need to us to do a terrorism , when our govt does it for free? every single negative action against the United States has been directly caused or enacted by the United States government or Israeli agents.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Basado. They are more fat than people so I don’t consider them human either

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >our guys are either fat or stealing benefits, sometimes both
        So basic corruption?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This reeks of larp

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Sup fatass

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            > You're an ATF agent because you point out that PrepHole larps often
            Do you just absorb anything in front of your eyes anon, like an ATF agent absorbs food?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Yeah u caught me fgt

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Probably. However 80% of cops are overweight or obese which is higher than the national average. That’s a fact. There is zero reason to think the ATF would be any more in shape

  20. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    For those of us who are already in the fed database by having tax stamps, does this ruling effectively just means free form 1s for every lower we own?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      lol no. IRS will levy the tax down the road. Now pay for the 50 lowers you just registered or destroy them.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If you want to do the paperwork but I believe they were going to require pictures of the rifle.
      Honestly, I don't think anyone cares about the tax stamp or at least that's not the primary issue.
      For me, I have a conceal pistol permit. So, I can keep a braced pistol loaded in the car but not a rifle or SBR.
      For me, when they announced they were going to pull this shit, I just changed my braced AR into a rifle or was it back into a rifle? I dont' recall whichever one is legal is definitely what I did. Now I have a more powerful deadlier rifle thanks to the ATF and I just keep it in the trunk with a magazine and a Glock 20 in the console.
      So, ultimately every ruling by the ATF has just made me deadlier.

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Memes become reality.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's all fun and COCKY games until they also make a "ruling" on the bullpup "loophole"

  22. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sorry citizen, your constitution rights take a back seat to my right not to get shot. Now register them SBRs

  23. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So I just bought a PSA pistol, does this mean I'm SOL and have 120 days to do something with it?
    I don't want this to be a forever gun it was bought on a whim anyways

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's an SBR now. Braces don't get around the NFA anymore

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >It's an SBR now. Braces don't get around the NFA anymore
        If they have no surface area on the back of the brace, no scope and there are no videos online of anyone shouldering it then it's probably fine though.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          gay fuck

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Even a blade style brace has SOME rear surface area, and that's the fucking point.
          Did you add an optic? Haha, well clearly if you were firing it braced you wouldn't need to use an optic to aim. Go to jail.
          Do you only have irons? Haha, how are you going to get a good sight picture without shouldering it? Go to jail.
          Did you add a passive aiming laser? Haha, seems like all that weight on the end of the gun would make it hard to hold one-handed. Go to jail.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Based government doing its job to keep us safe while also not taking away anyones guns

            I forgot to mention how much I love sucking cock.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        welp, if that's the case
        see you boys on the other side

        captcha 2420SV

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous
          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous
        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          all you have to do is take the pistol brace off, literally

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      In 119 days you have to take off the brace, provided this rule stands and isn't shot down by a court like the bump stock ban was. In the mean time, you're technically breaking the law but its an amnesty period where you cant be charged

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ignore the atf. Use it how you wanted to use it when you bought it. If you want to put a rifle upper on it later, do it. If you want to sell the pistol upper, do it. If you want to sell the lower, do it. They have no way or ever knowing unless you tell them yourself.

  24. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Any retailers clearance pricing their pistol braces yet?

  25. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No. The NFA is fucking retarded and this whole "totally not a stock it's a pistol" bracecuck shit to avoid the NFA is also retarded. Two retards don't make a right. Trusting the ATF of all agencies to not use this to fuck you completes the retard hat trick.

  26. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >The rule allows for a 120-day period for manufacturers, dealers, and individuals to register tax-free any existing NFA short-barreled rifles covered by the rule.

    Definitely not happy about any of this, but at the very least it sounds like I'll be able to SBR a gun I was already planning to SBR without the $200 tax.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      So the ATF is giving us a tax stamp without collecting a tax? Doesn’t this whole thing just legally fall on its face from dozens of angles?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Yes and it's why registering your gun during the "amnesty period" is an obvious ATF trap. There are millions of braces in circulation, and it would take decades for the ATF to approve all those Form 1s at their current rate.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Until the IRS audits you for not paying a tax :^)
      What do you think those 86k new agents are gonna be busy doing?
      >but but but they said they'd waive the tax
      They can't decide that, the whole law exists as a tax. They can't have a tax law without a tax. I understand they do as they please, do you think they're going to flex power and YOU'LL be the beneficiary? HA!

  27. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Bought 10 80% lowers to cut and stamp because why the fuck not if it's free.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You have to submit a picture of the completed rifle in the braced configuration with your stamp paperwork.

      I just took my braced AR and bought a 16" barrel 2 months ago. Problem, fucking solved.

      I'd recommend everyone go buy a 16" barrel btw, right now if you want one. Right fucking now.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        In his situation, couldnt he just use one upper and take a picture of each lower with that same upper on it?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I have a couple shorty uppers and 3d printers that can spit out as many braces as I need.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        gayest shit I've heard in my life. I literally have aids from your comment

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          not him, why is that the gayest shit I've heard in my life?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I'd recommend everyone go buy a 16" barrel btw, right now if you want one. Right fucking now.
        Fucking why?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          alot of people are gonna increase barrel length and just use a stock, it's slightly less handy but they probably own a pistol for handy and are gonna get more velocity and stock were always better than braces.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >ar owners in america
            >doing any modification that requires more than an allen wrench or screwdriver
            not happening

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Well yeah that’s obvious. But what I replied to made it sound like
            A. There was going to a rush on 16” barrels and uppers and you won’t be able to get them.
            B. Implied using a 16” with a brace which is just dumb.

  28. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are you allowed to take the brace off and put a real stock on your newly registered sbr? Or do you have to keep in it's original configuration when it was registered?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I’m pretty sure you can put a normal stock on once it’s registered

  29. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Are brace adapters gone then?

  30. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just means you can't openly shoulder it. Sucks because now braces won't be made as much and some were actually good stocks. Thr blade brace is the thinnest most minimalist stock ever, I'm probably gonna throw it on a rifle.

  31. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is there time to get a CNC warrior folding stock with a brace adaptor?

  32. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If I want to make another pistol before this ruling drops could I order a complete rifle lower and get it transferred as an "other" to then get a "free" SBR stamp? or would I have to buy a pistol lower?

  33. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So what you're basically saying is there's nothing holding anyone back from just using a regular stock on their pistols now, since it's an SBR either way?

  34. 3 weeks ago
    Gerald Tarrant

    How is the NFA still a thing, it's a tax, it's always been a tax, the new ruling reiterates that it's a tax.
    The supreme court has clearly ruled that you can not tax a right.
    That alone completely invalidates the NFA.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >government getting rid of a tax, ever

      • 3 weeks ago
        Gerald Tarrant

        The 24th Amendment Ended the Poll Tax
        January 23, 1964
        Imagine that you are finally old enough to vote in your first election. But, do you have enough money? Money, to vote? Not long ago, citizens in some states had to pay a fee to vote in a national election. This fee was called a poll tax. On January 23, 1964, the United States ratified the 24th Amendment to the Constitution, prohibiting any poll tax in elections for federal officials.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      if it was just the tax, less people would care. However, it's fingerprinting, registration, and telling the ATF if you take the NFA item across state lines. When the NFA was written that $200 is equivalent to $4000 today. It was meant to make them too expensive for normal people to afford, while giving the feds bullshit charges for gangsters.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Gerald Tarrant

        Yeah, I realize that. It's why I don't own an sbr. I don't want to be on a registry or watch list and not be able to cross state lines.
        The point was that it is a tax, and a tax on a constitutional right is entirely illegal and unconstitutional and as such should have long ago been used to get it thrown out.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          if it was just the tax, less people would care. However, it's fingerprinting, registration, and telling the ATF if you take the NFA item across state lines. When the NFA was written that $200 is equivalent to $4000 today. It was meant to make them too expensive for normal people to afford, while giving the feds bullshit charges for gangsters.

          >muh state lines
          When are you guys fucking going to another state to go shooting?

          Also suppressors don't have to abide by this.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >How is the NFA still a thing, it's a tax, it's always been a tax, the new ruling reiterates that it's a tax.
      >The supreme court has clearly ruled that you can not tax a right.
      >That alone completely invalidates the NFA.

      This is correct. But now we have to play the court game. That could take years.
      I figure they already know I have guns, I'm an FFL with an SOT so why not free reg some stuff. I mean I have a 1930's Browning Hi-Power I'd love to get a stock for, and maybe a few other things like put an original CZ Scorpion together with it's stupid little stock thing. I mean it's not like they don't know we have guns.
      So why not? Am I missing something?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Gerald Tarrant

        >Am I missing something
        You're missing the ability to cross an imaginary line on a map. Most NFA Firearms are NOT allowed to be moved across state lines without approval from the ATF beforehand.

  35. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    > complying

  36. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Didn’t need them anyway.good riddance.

  37. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't think normies even know the feds are shitting themselves over the idea that people might legally own a rifle shorter than 16 inches or that people might put a stock on their glock. If they knew do you think they'd stand with us in questioning and opposing this nonsense?

    Like, if you asked a normie why you have to pay $200 for the privilege of having a sbr or a handgun with a stock/brace, could they even hazard a guess? Could anyone come up with a remotely logical reason to support it?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Well, whatever, I don't care. Guns are evil and should be banned anyway so I'm for more restrictions.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It’s because sbrs allow powerful weapons that are more easily concealed

  38. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How does this affect non-NFA fireams?

    For example:
    <16" barrel
    vertical foregip
    arm stabilizing brace
    overall length >26"?

    I assume now also SBR because now fudd thinks any arm stabilizing brace can be shouldered?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I assume that if a >26" AR pistol would become a rifle as far as ATF is concerned, then whether or not it has a foregrip on it doesn't matter. Functionally, it sounds like they took the NFA's wording about rifles being defined by having stocks and decided that if they couldn't play with the definition of "rifle" they'd play with the definition of "stock". So congratulations, you now (probably) also have an illegal SBR.

      What I can't help but wonder is how many times it will take before different people submit IDENTICAL firearms to the ATF for approval and receive different judgments about their legality. Besides the other heap of obvious legal problems it really sounds like now there's an opportunity for discrimination suits too.

  39. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Merrick Garland is out of control. Pol was right.

  40. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Does this apply to shotguns with braces too?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Pretty gay rule, hopefully it will get struck down in courts. I'm sure a lot of gun owners are still gonna cuck out and register, which will increase NFA wait times drastically. I'm gonna enjoy you NFA fags bitching about that for a long time.

      I think so

  41. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Turn your braces in for Uncle Joe so Drumpf can take the L.

  42. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Based government doing its job to keep us safe while also not taking away anyones guns

  43. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So dangerous it's free to register!

  44. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ooof! This new legal scripture really makes Statism look unattractive. I think I'll convert to Judaism or something.

  45. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Whatever happens do not comply

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Anyone who claims to not coomply with the new brace ruling and doesn't also make it a machine gun is a cuck. Same crime. Not advocating breaking the law just sayin.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This

      And this

      S to Spit
      buying these things was always a huge cope. Time to get the NFA overturned

      Anyone who Form 1s anything after the Bruen decision is a hopeless bootlicking gay who doesn't deserve to own guns.

  46. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    S to Spit
    buying these things was always a huge cope. Time to get the NFA overturned

  47. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I blame gays for shouldering their arm braces in public for this shit

  48. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I will comply, I have too much to lose. SBRs were always a meme anyway

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Best of luck on the cattle car someone eventually shoves you in to one day

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I have a wife and two kids to look after, I'm not going to prison over a fucking range toy.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Your wife’s boyfriend will take good care of them.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            why do feds like you always try to entrap people? The year has just started, I doubt they're asking you to fill your quotas already.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why do you think you'd go to prison over a range toy when SCOTUS has already determined that gun control is unconstitutional and the ATF only has 5,000 employees to cover the entire country? Just don't post your shit online if you're so worried about it.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          so put a 16" barrel and normal stock on it and don't give them any info.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I have a mp5... how do I do that?

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              take brace off. Sell it without one.

              >ar owners in america
              >doing any modification that requires more than an allen wrench or screwdriver
              not happening

              >swap uppers

              the IRS stated that they are losing a half billion. on non REGERSTED SBR/SBS.
              and there in the process of hiring 78,000 Armed agents. to go after TAX evasion.(SBR TAX stamp)
              Irs as a weapon has already been used.
              put the pieces together. Its not THAT hard.
              So, with the other agencies working together more gov. control.

              schizo post somewhere else

  49. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    euro here, what's a stabilizing brace, and what's the problem with it?
    >mfw I can get any stock and full-auto lower receivers in Poland because they are not considered essential gun parts

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      pistols under US law can’t accept a stock, and barrel length for pistols isn’t legally relevant, if it doesn’t have a stock or can’t accept a stock, it’s a pistol. It can have a 1 inch barrel or a 100 inch barrel, it’s still a pistol.

      Rifles have to have at least a 16 inch barrel. If it’s any shorter, it’s legally a short barreled rifle and you have to pay a 200 dollar tax for it and register it.

      Because barrel length on pistols isn’t legally relevant, manufactures make ARs and AKs and so on with a sub 16 inch barrel, but they can’t accept a stock. For ARs this means that the buffer tube doesn’t have an indents for a collapsable butt stock or a hole for a screw for a fixed stock. Pic rel is technically, legally a pistol.

      An arm brace can be used as a stock, so now your pistol with an arm brace can be used as a short barreled rifle, without paying the tax and registration.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/KVT1q4w.jpg

        in burgerland you can't have a stock on a short barrel rifle without paying a $200.00 tax and waiting 6 months to a year for the ATF to do more background checks. Some cuck states won't even allow you to the ability own one. Also the weapon is now registered and it makes owning one a little more difficult. For instance you can't travel between states unless you get a permission to do it. Transferring it to your family member when you die also is a problem and the gun needs to be surrendered or sold to a dealer with the paperwork to deal these weapons. To work around this retardation the short barreled guns are sold as pistols so none of that applies, but you can't have a stock. the brace is a workaround because it's not a stock its designed to be strapped around your forearm allowing you to hold the pistol one handed more comfortably, it just so happens though that it is a good substitute for a stock so you get your cake and eat it too.

        tl;dr the brace is a workaround because the laws are retarded

        euro here, what's a stabilizing brace, and what's the problem with it?
        >mfw I can get any stock and full-auto lower receivers in Poland because they are not considered essential gun parts

        Pic rel is a how an arm brace is theoretically used but it can also be used to shoulder the firearm as you would a rifle.

        Pic rel is legally a pistol.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          was*

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          But that pistol clearly has an adjustable buffer tube on it, so how does that count?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I just got that image off of google so I don’t know the case for that specific firearm but I’d assume the buffer tube is just a tube that can’t accept a stock

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              But that pistol clearly has an adjustable buffer tube on it, so how does that count?

              the buffer tube is not considered the stock. that brace uses the standard buffer tube notches to adjust the length the brace can be set at to better fit on your forearm

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                There’s no notches on a buffer tube on a pistol, that’s what makes it a pistol

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                wrong, what makes it a pistol is that the lower was registered as a pistol upon manufacturing. That makes it a pistol not the tube. you can have the standard buffer tube on the gun and still have it be a pistol. lots of people use these dedicated pistol tubes because it further cover's your ass.

                So basically the buffer tube isn't even part of the discussion?
                As in you can build a pistol with an adjustable tube on in and it's totally fine?

                as far as I know at this time no, that is not up for discussion

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If the lower is a pistol and transferred etc as a pistol it would have the buffer tube on it anyway so you’re correct saying the receiver is the pistol, but also the buffer tube makes it a pistol also.

                Then how do you account for braces like the SBA4?
                https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sba4/

                I don’t know anything about that specific item.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                the part that is legally the pistol is the lower period, the tube is meaningless, as is the upper the only time when it becomes relevant is when a stock is attached, then it's a rifle. This is why the SB brace uses the standard buffer tube and was perfectly legal as was having a pistol build using the standard tube

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                So basically the buffer tube isn't even part of the discussion?
                As in you can build a pistol with an adjustable tube on in and it's totally fine?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The buffer tube is essential to the function of an AR-15. It’s not a stock. The stock goes on the buffer tube. A buffer tube for a pistol like

                https://i.imgur.com/aoMsJo5.jpg

                There’s no notches on a buffer tube on a pistol, that’s what makes it a pistol

                cannot accept a stock. A buffer tube like this can accept a stock, and thus can’t be on a pistol

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Then how do you account for braces like the SBA4?
                https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sba4/

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The one in the pic was one of the first designs that used a pistol tube w/ no notches to secure on. The later designed ones were more practical because they use the standard buffer tube to fit the brace on

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      in burgerland you can't have a stock on a short barrel rifle without paying a $200.00 tax and waiting 6 months to a year for the ATF to do more background checks. Some cuck states won't even allow you to the ability own one. Also the weapon is now registered and it makes owning one a little more difficult. For instance you can't travel between states unless you get a permission to do it. Transferring it to your family member when you die also is a problem and the gun needs to be surrendered or sold to a dealer with the paperwork to deal these weapons. To work around this retardation the short barreled guns are sold as pistols so none of that applies, but you can't have a stock. the brace is a workaround because it's not a stock its designed to be strapped around your forearm allowing you to hold the pistol one handed more comfortably, it just so happens though that it is a good substitute for a stock so you get your cake and eat it too.

      tl;dr the brace is a workaround because the laws are retarded

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      To add on to the other anons: people realized you COULD press braces to your shoulder and use them just like a stock (if you wanted), the government flip-flopped multiple times on their legality, and now after years of them being a thing and millions of them being sold they're trying to tell people that they're not all actually legal and that they need to register and pay up or else. Except the law hasn't changed at all, this is just a regulatory interpretation of it that they're trying to pass off as carrying the same legal weight, ostensibly with penalties and all.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/9RgX5ij.jpg

        [...]
        [...]

        Pic rel is a how an arm brace is theoretically used but it can also be used to shoulder the firearm as you would a rifle.

        Pic rel is legally a pistol.

        https://i.imgur.com/KVT1q4w.jpg

        in burgerland you can't have a stock on a short barrel rifle without paying a $200.00 tax and waiting 6 months to a year for the ATF to do more background checks. Some cuck states won't even allow you to the ability own one. Also the weapon is now registered and it makes owning one a little more difficult. For instance you can't travel between states unless you get a permission to do it. Transferring it to your family member when you die also is a problem and the gun needs to be surrendered or sold to a dealer with the paperwork to deal these weapons. To work around this retardation the short barreled guns are sold as pistols so none of that applies, but you can't have a stock. the brace is a workaround because it's not a stock its designed to be strapped around your forearm allowing you to hold the pistol one handed more comfortably, it just so happens though that it is a good substitute for a stock so you get your cake and eat it too.

        tl;dr the brace is a workaround because the laws are retarded

        https://i.imgur.com/Iz70YBk.jpg

        pistols under US law can’t accept a stock, and barrel length for pistols isn’t legally relevant, if it doesn’t have a stock or can’t accept a stock, it’s a pistol. It can have a 1 inch barrel or a 100 inch barrel, it’s still a pistol.

        Rifles have to have at least a 16 inch barrel. If it’s any shorter, it’s legally a short barreled rifle and you have to pay a 200 dollar tax for it and register it.

        Because barrel length on pistols isn’t legally relevant, manufactures make ARs and AKs and so on with a sub 16 inch barrel, but they can’t accept a stock. For ARs this means that the buffer tube doesn’t have an indents for a collapsable butt stock or a hole for a screw for a fixed stock. Pic rel is technically, legally a pistol.

        An arm brace can be used as a stock, so now your pistol with an arm brace can be used as a short barreled rifle, without paying the tax and registration.

        thanks!

  50. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >friend convinced me to buy a cz scorpion instead of a glock for home defense just a few weeks ago
    never listening to gun fags ever again, fuck you fucking retards

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      on the upside, you now have a superior home defense gun to protect yourself against atf agents

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Did you at least get a Scorpion 3 Plus?

  51. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >First they came for the NFA items, and I did not speak out because I did not own them.
    >Then they came for bump stocks, and I did not speak out because I did not own one.
    >Then they came for the pistol braces, and I did not speak out because I did use a brace.
    >Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      cringe. fuck off already boomer

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >first they banned new full autos and I didn't speak out because muh investment
      >then they banned 'salt weapons and I didn't speak out because fuck you got mine
      >then they banned bump stock and I didn't speak out because it's not a machine gun and i got muh investment
      >then they banned pistol braces and I didn't speak out because just get a real deal SBR sonny
      >then my kids put me in a home and gave my gun collection to the cops to be destroyed

  52. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    honestly didn't think firearms were going to be such a fucking hassle. I think I'm just going to sell all my guns, this hobby isn't worth all this headache

  53. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why so many (78,000) IRS agents???
    It will be the IRS that will enforce the rule.
    because it is a TAX stamp !

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      then I better get started on that form 1

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And the IRS wasn't in charge of NFA registration until literally right now because?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        the IRS stated that they are losing a half billion. on non REGERSTED SBR/SBS.
        and there in the process of hiring 78,000 Armed agents. to go after TAX evasion.(SBR TAX stamp)
        Irs as a weapon has already been used.
        put the pieces together. Its not THAT hard.
        So, with the other agencies working together more gov. control.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the irs has lost out on siphoning off 500 mil from the economy
          the government simply doesn't get to bitch about "lost revenue" when we're 30+ trillion in debt with the federal reserves money printers still humming away. these are all excuses used to establish control and nothing more.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the IRS stated that they are losing a half billion. on non REGERSTED SBR/SBS.
          500 million is fucking nothing
          Get the money from Elon, Hunter, Bill Gates, or any other CEO for all I care

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the IRS stated that they are losing a half billion. on non REGERSTED SBR/SBS.
          When and where?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Gerald Tarrant

        Until recently, the ATF was part of the IRS.

  54. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Why don’t you show the IRS saying they are losing money on tax stamps. And that the new 80k IRS agents are for tax stamps rather than normal” tax purposes. Or are you just going to REEEE some more

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Why don't you do us all a favor and just anhero. You contribute nothing to the discussion. Stupid faggle. Probably taking it up the ass by Tyrone and drinking S o y as we speak.

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