periscope sights for lower height over bore

finally got my hands on an OG p90 ring sight, and that had me thinking, why haven't periscope style optics been more popular yet?
if we're talking reducing height over bore as much as possible, you'd think a periscoping sight would be the most effective for that, especially for anything having to do with precision shooting.
unfortunately the only sight like this I can find goes on the p90 which already has an absolutely absurd HOB, and the like 2-3 inches the sight takes off from that is just enough to make it passable.

imagine if they made an lpvo or just a regular scope with a periscope to lower the HOB of something like an ar10 by 3", wouldnt it be so much better?
decent scopes already cost upwards of 1k, I don't think anyone would mind paying an extra 2-3 hundred for one that has this kind of system in it

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    HOB is not a significant problem, sometimes not even a downside.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Height over bore isn't just about how high your head is over the bore, it's about how high your sight is.
    Your idea has the sight the same height over bore as a scope, with the lower head position, which makes little difference.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      wtf i thought he meant like a reverse periscope
      thats stupid as hell
      you are INCREASING your height over bore, OP

      https://i.imgur.com/qvydUp9.jpeg

      i didn't know the p90's meme optic was periscopic. the problem is that there are third party reciever repacements that replace the absolutely terrible cast reciever with a machined one and lower the rail height like three inches. it was shit from the start

      didnt know that either and i dont think its even on purpose, i think its just to save space because there are prisms inside
      the p90 is really kind of bad overall. why is it so popular?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >the p90 is really kind of bad overall. why is it so popular?
        it was probably the first polymer receiver gun ever mass produced and it was never updated. its the same gun that was designed 35 years ago. the magazine design is still clever but the gun isn't cutting edge anymore and they have the audacity to charge $1500 for it. kel tek makes one for $500!

        it's the last israeliteel of european small arms development and as a consequence they haven't improved any of the things that could be improved because that would require admitting the original design wasn't perfect. lol. it was designed and produced for a political scenario that never ended up coming to fruition because the soviet union collapsed, so they dont even have to pretend it was supposed to be cheap anymore. they still roll out the full strengh military industrial propaganda when they talk about the p90 but everyone knows its been rotting on a shelf since Reagan was president

        the p90 is the best $500 carbine ever developed. your response to that statement should be directed at fabrique nationale, not me.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >the p90 is really kind of bad overall. why is it so popular?
        It has totally unique futuristic looks so it's been featured in lots of movies, games, etc.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          stargate sg1 has some of the most egregious propaganda i've ever seen. its obviously just a ham fisted military procedural drama shoehorned into a star trek fantasy setting and considering the show has rubber aliens and black men in eyeliner its not really something you would expect people to take seriously. but people do, probably because they weaved real life military equipment into the narrative using old school propaganda techniques

          this is flat out just propaganda that is designed to make you think the aliens are afghani tribesman, that doubles as an advertisement for Fabrique Nationale

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The original movie is more blatant, SG-1 is fricking great though, genuinely novel writing for this type of sci fi because the military not being moronic and incompetent is the most rare thing in fiction, especially in the 90s. Working on hearts and minds from a military point of view and getting up to frickery with alien civilizations and foreign wars is fun and contrasts the both cynical and naive hollywood takes a lot nowadays.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      you're moronic, did you even see my diagram? did you even read my post?

      wtf i thought he meant like a reverse periscope
      thats stupid as hell
      you are INCREASING your height over bore, OP

      [...]
      didnt know that either and i dont think its even on purpose, i think its just to save space because there are prisms inside
      the p90 is really kind of bad overall. why is it so popular?

      i did mean a reverse periscope, even you seemed to understand that but you're such a bugman hivemind follower that you believe the first random moron online you see even when he's very clearly wrong over your own self.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        [...]
        OP's arrow is backwards, being how you look through it and not the way the light travels through it. The objective is lower to the bore with the ocular higher, more to do with the design of the gun and the optics of the late 80s than possibly lowering optic hight over bore I suspect.
        There's merit (and pointlessness) to a periscope either way, lowering HOB for close range shooting/raising the head or raising the objective above other shit like LAMs and lights without raising the head.

        oh yeah its very apparent in the p90 pic
        still, im not a fan of the idea. low HOB is good at close range where youd rather have a reflex or holographic sight that doesnt mess with stereo vision

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          https://i.imgur.com/7xDUTXh.jpeg

          yeah they're being imported again except this time by the original British seller. I got it from them and it showed up in less than a week. they're even nice enough to ask for your gun serial number so they can make sure they're sending you a compatible version

          https://www.kingsviewoptical.com/products/electronic-black-ringsight/

          [...]
          Yeah I wish it was just the big circle with a dot in the middle. I can hit stuff with it but it just obscures a lot of the target imo. Turning off the illumination seems to help and you just use the smaller inner circle and center that on the target

          If theres so much glass in between the eye and the target, why didnt they just give it some magnification? Like 1.5x tops

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      wtf i thought he meant like a reverse periscope
      thats stupid as hell
      you are INCREASING your height over bore, OP

      [...]
      didnt know that either and i dont think its even on purpose, i think its just to save space because there are prisms inside
      the p90 is really kind of bad overall. why is it so popular?

      OP's arrow is backwards, being how you look through it and not the way the light travels through it. The objective is lower to the bore with the ocular higher, more to do with the design of the gun and the optics of the late 80s than possibly lowering optic hight over bore I suspect.
      There's merit (and pointlessness) to a periscope either way, lowering HOB for close range shooting/raising the head or raising the objective above other shit like LAMs and lights without raising the head.

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    i didn't know the p90's meme optic was periscopic. the problem is that there are third party reciever repacements that replace the absolutely terrible cast reciever with a machined one and lower the rail height like three inches. it was shit from the start

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The point of that thing was securing the magazine and protecting it not just holding the sights up, of course its not ideal for mounting shit which is why they went for propietary factory optics to begin with.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Those side wings don't even contact the magazine

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Those side wings don't even contact the magazine
          if they dropped it the mag wouldnt get hit or fallout

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The P90 magazine has a slot at the front that interfaces with the receiver at the front and only at the front and not the sides.
            A minimalist frame will interface with the magazine the exact same way as the original.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          You dont need to touch the mag to protect it from sideways impacts and rough handling

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >if we're talking reducing height over bore as much as possible
    Nobody really does that. HOB is not very important.

    >wouldnt it be so much better?
    No.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    At short range no, it doesn't really matter. At medium to long range it's both not important and indeed would be actively detrimental because you'd lose elevation dof, which you need to compensate for bullet drop.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    it's a cool sight and I enjoy mine but the glass is really dark and I think that has something to do with the periscope design

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      god that reticle is cool but it looks so useless.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/A8K3zPn.jpeg

      finally got my hands on an OG p90 ring sight, and that had me thinking, why haven't periscope style optics been more popular yet?
      if we're talking reducing height over bore as much as possible, you'd think a periscoping sight would be the most effective for that, especially for anything having to do with precision shooting.
      unfortunately the only sight like this I can find goes on the p90 which already has an absolutely absurd HOB, and the like 2-3 inches the sight takes off from that is just enough to make it passable.

      imagine if they made an lpvo or just a regular scope with a periscope to lower the HOB of something like an ar10 by 3", wouldnt it be so much better?
      decent scopes already cost upwards of 1k, I don't think anyone would mind paying an extra 2-3 hundred for one that has this kind of system in it

      Can you even buy one nowadays?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        yeah they're being imported again except this time by the original British seller. I got it from them and it showed up in less than a week. they're even nice enough to ask for your gun serial number so they can make sure they're sending you a compatible version

        https://www.kingsviewoptical.com/products/electronic-black-ringsight/

        god that reticle is cool but it looks so useless.

        Yeah I wish it was just the big circle with a dot in the middle. I can hit stuff with it but it just obscures a lot of the target imo. Turning off the illumination seems to help and you just use the smaller inner circle and center that on the target

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          When I ordered my mine it showed up in less than 24 hours with their standard shipping. It was kind of crazy.

          god that reticle is cool but it looks so useless.

          It's very instinctual to shoot with, and can be shot both eyes open even when the light is off but it takes more practice than just picking up a red dot.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That's not all that surprising since to get to your eye the light has to travel through multiple lenses and mirrors.

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Mostly, Height Over Bore just doesn't seem like a big issue. If you're big into precision shooting you dial in your optics for the distance anyway so HOB is just another constant in your calculations. HOB is only a detriment at short ranges where the difference between angle from barrel and angle from scope is actually significant.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What if they made a scope that works like an SLR camera, with a mirror in the bore that swings out of the way upon firing. Gonna patent it BRB.

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