Pen simulation

Why does the lead disappear?
Where does it go?

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It did the job it was supposed to do and then it goes for an ice cream.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I assume since lead is soft it gets splashed around radially as spalling pieces

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        This, and the fragments aren't shown because they'd obscure the bullet-plate interaction while not playing any role in it.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    But why does m193 pen while m885 and m855a1 dont?
    Is it bc of picrel?
    Meaning that the steel core slows down and the lead behind splashes against it and gets wider, so the force is applied over a wider area and also the lead pushes less on the steel core once it starts expanding and pressing the plate so the pen of the core is reduced too since it has a lower density and relies on the lead to provide the energy while the steel provides the hardness?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I thought the whole point of m855a1 was better armor penetration. Then what’s with the steel penetrator?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Idk but if you look at ballistic tests m855 and m855 s1 dont pen steel and ceramic but pen UHMWP while m193 pens steel but not the rest

        • 2 months ago
          Correction typo

          M885A1*

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        M193 pens a lot because it's very light and fast. But that means it deflects a lot even of things like foliage
        M855A1 was designed to penetrate more than M855 while also being "barrier blind" and having minimal deflection, unlike M193

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          What makes it so that it pens more and is also barrier blind?

          The lead is turned to powder. The simulation doesn't render it because it's too much trouble and doesn't do anything important.

          So spalling, the one you see in steel playes

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >What makes it so that it pens more
            More than M855: the fact M855A1 is faster from an M4 barrel due to having a higher chamber pressure (M855 was designed for M16). And the design of the steel core/tip
            >and is also barrier blind?
            M855 and M855A1 are heavier rounds (62 grains) than M195 (55 grains) so more stable

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              So they have more inertia due to the fact that they're heavier or is it also their design?
              Also unrelated but I'm curious, what's the copper jacket for? I read that its bc otherwise the spinning lead bullet would explode radially mid air if not contained by the jacket, and also bc at the high velocity and temp it has inside the barrel it would leave lead in the rifling, (is it leading? If not what's leading and why is it bad)

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >better armor penetration
        Not really. The goal was to penetrate a steel helmet at the longest range possible (IIRC they wound up with 700 yards or so), not to penetrate the most armor possible at a realistic rifle range (e.g. up to 300 yards). This made more sense than it sounds like, given that it was specifically developed for the SAW, not for rifles.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, that's exactly what happens with M855. The steel "penetrator" mushrooms, and the lead behind it is decelerated. This is why, at the same velocity, M193 penetrates steel armor plates better than M855.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        But i meant that the lead mushrooms so it is decelarated by hitting the plate where the hole hasn't been made yet due to its wider diameter

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Also why doesnt m855 pen UHMWPE while m193 doesn't?
          What happens there

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Sorry m855 DOES pen and m193 doesnt

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            the way I figure it is UHMWPE functions by deforming and catching the bullet but even a mild steel penetrator is hard enough to hold its shape and resist this effect meanwhile other armor materials are capable of deforming the penetrator which widens the contact area and diminishes penetration

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's not a perfect simulation.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    There are a limit to the number of elements the simulation can track and the minimum size of the elements. Once a piece passes below the minimum threshold it's removed visually, though how/what/where it goes/does/why is more complicated based on the settings of the simulation.

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      This really illustrates how unsafe AR500 steel armor is

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      wait, does it split along the rifling grooves? neat

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why does the ass bulge at the end?
      At the beginning its flat

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Maybe lead in the middle that had no time to escape before the rear slammed into it.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    The lead is turned to powder. The simulation doesn't render it because it's too much trouble and doesn't do anything important.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Is there any way to measure what specific amount of energy per surface area is needed to penetrate a given plate material and composition, or are more factors involved than just that? Functionally what I mean is is there a way to calculate exactly how much bullet and exactly how much velocity would be needed to reliably nail a given plate?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I think you also have to consider that the bullet and plate change during the collision so as I was saying above if the projectile becomes larger or tumbled its surface area in contact with the plate gets bigger, so I think the design of the bullet is also important due to this

      What program is this?

      Idk you can try looking at the guys channel or asking in the comments

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Penetration equations exist but the various equations are intended for certain penetration mechanisms, and the values that you plug in there (usually constant coefficients of some kind) are all arrived at via experimentation, since penetration is not a pure single interaction, but a huge mess of different mechanisms working together. In the end, simulation is the best way to do it, but of course it's basically just empiricism that has to be backed up with real-life observations, just like with all modelling of this kind.
      Even for a simple plate with a simple bullet, changes in e.g. hardness and velocity will change the failure mechanism, hence the equation you use and the results you get. However if you know that a certain equation works, then small changes won't matter. So a lead bullet and a steel bullet would give different results, but if you decide to want to e.g. know how a slightly increased velocity would change things, you can carry on using the same equation, provided you know which failure mode is most applicable.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    What program is this?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Possibly ANSYS. I only got to use it in college, but what little I see in the UI looks right and it has the kind of multiphysics simulation that would be needed for this.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Has anyone done a simulation of an osmium core bullet or sabot? Just for fun?
    For reference one cubic foot of lead is 700lbs. One cubic foot of osmium is 1400lbs.

    (It's Platinum level expensive and toxic)

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Is it more or less dense than tungsten or depleted uranium?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        17% denser than pure tungsten.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Iridium would be even more fun. Iridium is just as dense as osmium -- denser than tungsten or depleted uranium -- and it's stronger and more ductile than any of them. Could be the ultimate armor penetrator.

  10. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    because it's shitty clickbait made by some gay plugging ballistics into a simulator that was never made to handle it but they do it anyways because people eat this shit up all of these videos do not come close to real world results

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