>Panzer 3 was outpaced extremely quickly by allied tank development and by 1943 was essentially useless

>Panzer 3 was outpaced extremely quickly by allied tank development and by 1943 was essentially useless
>Panzer 4 was arguably the best of the entire german lineup but suffered from being unable to be up armoured and needed engine upgrades essentially from the start of it's life
>Panther was just a stop gap tank that never got it's flaws ironed out
>Tiger had terrible, unangled armour plates, cripplingly low turret traverse speed, bad transmission/final drive and was never produced in numbers that would have been meaningful
>King Tiger
>lol
>Pz 1 and 2
>lol
What exactly were the germans thinking?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just like with aircraft and naval vessels, they would've been better off license building Japanese.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The standard Jap "medium" tank is worse than an M3 Stuart

      Cogitate on that

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Funny because Stuarts lost even to Type 95s during the Japanese invasion of the Philippines.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What a moronic post.
    >Panzer 3 was outpaced extremely quickly by allied tank development and by 1943 was essentially useless
    Panzer 3 was the best medium tank in the world until 1942 and remained useful after this date with upgrades and vehicles based on its chassis were viable until the end of the war.
    >Panzer 4 was arguably the best of the entire german lineup but suffered from being unable to be up armoured and needed engine upgrades essentially from the start of it's life
    Lineup? This post reeks of warthunder. The Panzer 4 was designed from the outset to support the infantry and only became the mainstay of the force as a result of developments of technology and doctrine of both the Germans and their opponents.
    >Panther was just a stop gap tank that never got it's flaws ironed out
    Panther was not a stop gap, it was envisioned to be the successor to the existing medium tanks.
    >Tiger had terrible, unangled armour plates, cripplingly low turret traverse speed, bad transmission/final drive and was never produced in numbers that would have been meaningful
    Tiger had excellent protection and firepower. It was also extremely reliable and had exceptional tactical mobility. What you should be criticising is that it was thirsty and had poor strategic mobility. If you stop being retared and consider that the Germans knew they would never be able to match quantity, so they instead focused on quality, you will arrive at the conclusion that the Tiger was in fact a brilliant vehicle and filled its niche perfectly.
    >King Tiger
    >lol
    King Tiger was the natural evolution of the Tiger, but by the time it entered service the war was lost.
    >Pz 1 and 2
    >lol
    Panzer 1 was an actual stop gap. The Germans needed a tank to train and equip their fledgling armored formations. The Panzer 2 was comparable (but still superior) to its contemporaries in other nations armies. And they still crushed the poles and the french/brits using large numbers of these vehicles.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You know Heinz Guderian won't suck your dick right?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        epic
        upvoted

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What a moronic post.
          >Panzer 3 was outpaced extremely quickly by allied tank development and by 1943 was essentially useless
          Panzer 3 was the best medium tank in the world until 1942 and remained useful after this date with upgrades and vehicles based on its chassis were viable until the end of the war.
          >Panzer 4 was arguably the best of the entire german lineup but suffered from being unable to be up armoured and needed engine upgrades essentially from the start of it's life
          Lineup? This post reeks of warthunder. The Panzer 4 was designed from the outset to support the infantry and only became the mainstay of the force as a result of developments of technology and doctrine of both the Germans and their opponents.
          >Panther was just a stop gap tank that never got it's flaws ironed out
          Panther was not a stop gap, it was envisioned to be the successor to the existing medium tanks.
          >Tiger had terrible, unangled armour plates, cripplingly low turret traverse speed, bad transmission/final drive and was never produced in numbers that would have been meaningful
          Tiger had excellent protection and firepower. It was also extremely reliable and had exceptional tactical mobility. What you should be criticising is that it was thirsty and had poor strategic mobility. If you stop being retared and consider that the Germans knew they would never be able to match quantity, so they instead focused on quality, you will arrive at the conclusion that the Tiger was in fact a brilliant vehicle and filled its niche perfectly.
          >King Tiger
          >lol
          King Tiger was the natural evolution of the Tiger, but by the time it entered service the war was lost.
          >Pz 1 and 2
          >lol
          Panzer 1 was an actual stop gap. The Germans needed a tank to train and equip their fledgling armored formations. The Panzer 2 was comparable (but still superior) to its contemporaries in other nations armies. And they still crushed the poles and the french/brits using large numbers of these vehicles.

          Seething

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            kys

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Panzer 3 was the best medium tank in the world until 1942

      >M3(1941)
      >T-34(1940)
      >Type 97(1936!)

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        all of them were worse than the Panzer III, unironically
        >but muh armor thickness and gun caliber is all that matters!!!!
        back to war thunder

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >but muh armor thickness and gun caliber is all that matters!!!!
          But enough about the Panzer III and its ability to support infantry being so dogshit the Panzer IV had to be developed in parallel.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What a shit attempt at redirection, that guy is right, the Panzer III was better.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >M3(1941)
        M3 was gay until the bongs made it straight and gave it a cool name, and even then it was quickly replaced.
        >T-34(1940)
        Shitty construction, shitty ergonomics, no radio. Throw in some external factors like the end user being purged into incompetence and the result is annihilation the battlefield.
        >Type 97(1936!)
        Fair enough, but only until 1937.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >>T-34(1940)
          >good
          No, not really. Manual turret with small turret ring and the commander have to function as the gunner as well as doing spotting and potentially also platoon leader duties. Severely hampered his abilities to pick up targets and observe fire effect. Only changed in 1944(!) with the 3 man 85mm turret. 76mm turrets had notoriously shit visibility to compound the above problems and didnt even have periscopes until 1943. No turret basket, so spent shells were legitimately a hazard on the non rotating floor.
          Sloped armor was a good move but they made the armor too hard and therefore even non-penetrating hits caused brutal interior spalling. the sloped armor made the already cramped tank even moreso.
          Lack of radios to 1 in 5 tanks, so instead they communicated by flags like some cavalrymen of the prussian wars or some shit. Problem persisted up to, and to an extent even through 1944.
          Transmission was notoriously shit, crews were provided with a sledgehammer to whack it with if the gears would refuse to engage. Tank for tank it actually blew its transmission up more often than that of Panthers.
          Average of 200km usage before tanks needed a complete overhaul, just due to poor components. Some tanks needed significant repairs before they even finished off their first load of diesel.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >>T-34(1940)
            >good
            Anon I challenge you to find where in my post I stated the T-34 was good.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Tiger

      Tiger was perfectly fine for what it was intended, unfotrtunately for it, it was never deployed to do what it was intended to and instead had to run around the eastern front (or wherever else there was enemy penetration to contain) and thus never actually being employed how it was meant, with operational pauses and extended maintenance periods.

      >King Tiger
      Too much kruppstahl, too little sense. There is no doctrine for it, it was objectively stupid. Cool looking, but stupid.

      https://i.imgur.com/AVHUmE2.jpg

      >Panzer 3 was the best medium tank in the world until 1942

      >M3(1941)
      >T-34(1940)
      >Type 97(1936!)

      >T-34 (1940)

      I too like to be blind as a bat in an overhardened box of armour plate that is going to blend me and my buddies with spalling when with with non penetrating AND penetrating hits.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >This post reeks of warthunder
      I've genuinely played like an hour of the game and didn't like it

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      M3s could defeat the Pz4 F2

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >M3s could defeat the Pz4 F2
        >Gasoline in a bottle with a flaming wick could defeat the T-26
        Molotov wienertail best medium tank?

        Frick off to /wtg/

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          /wtg/ is too based, its shitposters are the finest on the site.

          Men like poopydude and ashtroon.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >molotov wienertails can duel Panzer IV F2s in the open desert
          Frick your mudda

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Noodle armed homosexual detected.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              seethe and cope, wehraboo

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The Panzer IV was designed from the outset to support the Panzer III
      ftfy

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Based German Armour apologist
      They fricked up lots of the war but tank design and implementation wasn't one of them

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You're really going to sit there and try to tell me that interleaved road wheels was a good idea?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Or a tank where you have to first remove the 11-ton turret in order to get at the gearbox is good "design and implementation"?

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It is good idea if you don't have access to enough rubber to go with simpler design.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >What exactly were the germans thinking?
    The Germans were moronic, but no where near as moronic as you. have a nice day at the earliest possible opportunity.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only god thanks of W2 were Rusian.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >t.picrel

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nosferatu-ass-looking motherfricker.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >only god thanks of W2
      Proofread motherfricker.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    pz3 is the mvp
    pz4 is garbage, aside from a marginally larger turret ring it has no reason to exist
    panther is obese, too many corners cut even for a cheep tank
    tiger 1 is the best, costs too much to make
    tiger 2 is king of the battle space, just needs crushed velvet seats to complete its perfection
    pz1 and 2 are light tractors for agricultural use, mostly dangerous due to their numbers and speed

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >tiger 2
      >perfection
      >10 hp/ton.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >70 ton
        truly ahead of its time

        https://i.imgur.com/ZGEYukm.jpg

        You're really going to sit there and try to tell me that interleaved road wheels was a good idea?

        uhhh,,, it reduces the turning radius

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Panther seemed like it would have been a pretty fantastic tank if It had a little time for development.
    My understanding it was thrown out the door just in time for Kursk and never had the time to get the kinks worked out.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's worse than that, they delayed the battle of Kursk in anticipation of Panthers which were still rushed in way too fast and proved to be borderline useless in the actual battle.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The war was supposed to be won by January 1942. Bigs oops.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >ITT

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >What exactly were the germans thinking?
    that you need space inside the tank

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Well at least their crews were comfy as the unwashed soviet masses rolled through them

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Laughs in Crusader III

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I like Hungarian tanks

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    wot/war thunder brain

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Pz3 remained relevant in its Stug form until the end of the war

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Not a tank

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's literally the same vehicle in a non tank role

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Warthunder underage child
    Leave

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    just question but what marder was best, I assume it was 3 but I would like to know others opinions

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They are all perfect in my eyes. Marder dicky....

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Marder III Ausf. M is probably the best performing given its a fully adapted chassis gives more room for the crew compartment,
      the Pz II is somewhat near the limit of the suspensions capability, but a farely economical use of spare chassis.
      the various Marder built on French chassis tend to be a bit top heavy and maybe a bit lacking in mobility.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Panzerjäger I = best Panzerjäger

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nazi ideology undermined the decision-making of military leaders responsible for important details. It's readily apparent in Barbarossa, where everyone flat out ignored logisticians, that an important aspect of Nazism was that the superior will and drive of the Aryan people could overcome material conditions. On a real, fundamental level, those inducted into Nazi ideology believed they could use MAGIC to win. In their minds, a single soldier, tank, fighter etc. was quantifiably equivalent to a certain number of enemy units, and their fixation on tank and fighter aces demonstrates it. They really thought they could produce superior technology, with superior minds, to equip superior men, in the middle of a multi-front war that everyone could tell was transitioning from lightning-quick overruns and glorious assaults to one of drawn-out attrition and materiel production. Rather than face the fact that, even if they secured oil fields and mines, it would take months or years to ramp up production to viable levels, they doubled down on building machines to provide even larger, entirely imagined, advantage ratios. They cried "If a Panzer IV is worth ten T-26's, then my new Panther must be worth 20! Then by law equivalency and, knowing that five T-26's are worth as much as a T-34, then we can easily destroy five T-34's with every single Panther. With that ratio, the Red Army's entire armoured force will be destroyed in the next two weeks!" as they rolled onto the battlefield and faced 5 Shermans at the same time. Meanwhile, back home, the tank ace you survived the assault was given all the kills from his now-destroyed unit and sent to an R&R retreat outside of Munich for some publicity shots and interviews; afterall, the superior will of the Aryan people can only be bolstered by news of his heroism, which will surely win the war!

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Nazi ideology undermined the decision-making of military leaders responsible for important details.
      This, but reverse. Pussyians are totally brickheads.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Nazi ideology undermined the decision-making of military leaders responsible for important details. It's readily apparent in Barbarossa, where everyone flat out ignored logisticians,
      Imagine being so uneducated you think that's because of "nazi ideology."
      That kind of thinking was the norm at the time, America was the exception and the only reason America started focusing on logistics so much is because it's surrounded by 2 oceans.
      What a stupid Black person you are

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >I play warthunder the post

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    3 was outpaced extremely quickly by allied tank development and by 1943 was essentially useless
    it was already outdated when the war started, as late as in the battle of France the best German tanks were Czech made

  19. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Everybody was just trying stuff at that time. Tanks were a new tech, no one knew what the hell they were doing.

  20. 3 weeks ago
    robofucker

    >Pz 1 and 2
    >lol
    phew good thing those two didnt play any pivotal role in any major wars, otherwise you'd look mighty moronic right now OP

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Both were elemental in invasion of France, not due to firepower, but due to carrying radio sets that way better than anything portable at the time. Pz I and Pz II were essential C3ISTAR platforms of the day.

  21. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >being unable to be up armoured
    How, couldn't they just add thicker plates or something? That's how they made the jumbo

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >just add thicker plates
      >surely that would have zero impact whatsoever on the engine and suspension

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        the suspension would have collapsed. The germans uparmoured the 3 and 4 as much as humanly possible, the chassis just couldn't take too much extra weight. They ended up adding 80mm of frontal armour to the fricking panzer 1 though making it the most armoured german tank until the Tiger showed up

        Was upgrading the engine and suspension out of the question? I know it's later war germany but it's not like they weren't fielding heavier tanks

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          At that point you've swapped so much out you might as well start from a clean slate

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Tank of Theseus

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There were proposals to build a version of the Panzer IV with torsion bar suspension (and sloped hull armor) but the Germans couldn't afford to interrupt production long enough to retool.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the suspension would have collapsed. The germans uparmoured the 3 and 4 as much as humanly possible, the chassis just couldn't take too much extra weight. They ended up adding 80mm of frontal armour to the fricking panzer 1 though making it the most armoured german tank until the Tiger showed up

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