P90, why do people call it a submachinegun.

When the round is actually an nerfed 5.56 round.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    you answered the question already in your single fucking sentence.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It had to be nerfed in order to fit the gun, I dont know what else to tell you on that

    It is a pretty good idea, but I feel like it could have been executed better, the design was supposed to be extremely compact, which it is, but I think a larger 5.56 version would be interesting to see

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      FN's bid was supposed to replace 9mm SMGs and people stuck in the terminology or thought "personal defense weapon" was a dumb name called the P90 a submachine gun instead.

      The round's literally designed from the ground up over NATO's fears at the time that the Soviets would paradrop the VDV with body armor to pillage supply lines.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    yes, pistol rounds are nerfed rifle rounds you dumbass

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    "PDW" was not in the lexicon when it was introduced. If it were introduced now it would be called a PDW, and calling it a PDW is becoming more common.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    OP may be a dumb moron, but he has a point. What purpose does the P90 serve in 5.7? It's still not concealable by any definition of the word. It's only 7" shorter than a Mk18 (which actually shoots a proper rifle cartridge) and PDWs always were a complete meme from the start because, guess what, SMGs already existed and filling the gap between them and assault rifles is utterly irrelevant.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It's still not concealable by any definition of the word.
      and you're basing this off of what?
      that weapon has more time being concealed than almost any other submachine gun in history. The secret service conceal them under their suits, many nations security service use them to guard HVTs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >he fell for the spy movie and fuddlore garbage
        You clearly don't know what concealable means, you fucking clown. A P90 is only marginally shorter than a full length 20" barrel AUG (which again shoots a proper rifle cartridge at proper rifle velocities).

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          that is significantly shorter, anon.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >wait till I tell this retard that there are commercial 15" AUG barrels that infinitely outperform 5.7 in any P90 configuration and take it to about the same length footprint
            And there could easily have been even shorter barrel configs like 10.3" with potentially even shorter LOPs if the retards back in the late 70's had looked into tweaking an already existing and superior platform instead of inventing an entirely new one with an underpowered proprietary cartridge that never took off except in muh vidya and mallninjas staning their shitty meme 5/7s.

            >PDWs always were a complete meme from the start because, guess what, SMGs already existed and filling the gap between them and assault rifles is utterly irrelevant.
            Problem is things like SMG's get old and worn out, most of those SMG's were made in the 50's and 60's. So since you are going to be making a next gen SMG anyway, why not increase the range, penetration and ammo capacity? That is more or less what the P90 accomplished, it is the next gen SMG. The real reason it's not more mainstream military weapon is I think 3. fold.

            1. most people realized that their own assault rifles were either short enough or could be made shorter to fulfill the role so no need to introduce a new weapon.
            2. body armor has become so much more common incentivizing the use of more powerful short barreled rifles over it even if they are a little bigger.
            3. just using your main rifle cartridge doesn't introduce a new round into the supply chain.

            So it's not so much that there is a gap to be filled between SMG's and assault rifles, it's that the P90 is an objectively better SMG introduced in a time where SMG's are dying.

            >it's that the P90 is an objectively better SMG in a time where SMG's are dying.
            Slightly less obsolete is still obsolete.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >wait till I tell this retard that there are commercial 15" AUG barrels that infinitely outperform 5.7 in any P90 configuration and are still significantly longer
              FTFY

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You're a big dumby dum-dumb

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >marginally shorter
          >by an entire 12"
          the only clown here is you, my sweet little seething saltbag retard.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          moron that pic is the difference between
          >will fit between a grown man's (6'+) armpit and belt
          and
          >won't fit even if you try to stick it down your pants

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >marginally shorter
          That's a pretty big margin there bud.
          Now if we're talking the rare as fuck 14" barrel AUG's, then you've got something more comparable.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            its so strange, every ps90/p90 owner i know including myself owns an aug as well. wonder why that is

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Because you like bullpups and have enough money to own several guns of that type. Which is fine, if I could afford to own and shoot both of these rifles I would. Even if I'd rather get an MDR first since I like the trigger and the form factor better.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              AUGs are nice, and if you have the cash money for a P90 system you have the cash for an AUG system.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              While I don't have an AUG (maybe someday), I do have a x95 and RFB, if that matters.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why would you post a picture that runs completely counter to your point?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            because he's an idiot and an AUG fanboy that can't get over anyone using different guns than the ones he loves.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            because he's an idiot and an AUG fanboy that can't get over anyone using different guns than the ones he loves.

            Nah, you are the freakshow retards with the moron tier reading comprehension. I clearly said it was a full length AUG with a 20 inch barrel and, as such, it‘s only 7 inches longer or so. Obviously the difference becomes negligible when you start putting a 15 inch barrel carbine version next to it. I used it because it was the best side by side comparison I could find.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >this level of cope
              Just admit you were retarded.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'll admit I fucked ya mudda

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >as such, it‘s only 7 inches longer or so
              a FULL length AUG with a 20" barrel is almost 31+ inches, P90 is 19"
              why do you keep lying to attempt to validate your claim?
              just admit you're completely retard, and have no idea what you're talking about.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >PDWs always were a complete meme from the start because, guess what, SMGs already existed and filling the gap between them and assault rifles is utterly irrelevant.
      Problem is things like SMG's get old and worn out, most of those SMG's were made in the 50's and 60's. So since you are going to be making a next gen SMG anyway, why not increase the range, penetration and ammo capacity? That is more or less what the P90 accomplished, it is the next gen SMG. The real reason it's not more mainstream military weapon is I think 3. fold.

      1. most people realized that their own assault rifles were either short enough or could be made shorter to fulfill the role so no need to introduce a new weapon.
      2. body armor has become so much more common incentivizing the use of more powerful short barreled rifles over it even if they are a little bigger.
      3. just using your main rifle cartridge doesn't introduce a new round into the supply chain.

      So it's not so much that there is a gap to be filled between SMG's and assault rifles, it's that the P90 is an objectively better SMG introduced in a time where SMG's are dying.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you have the same kinetic energy as 9mm, you ain't an intermediate cartridge.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >they made Vash's gun a .22 instead of .45lc
      two nukes weren't enough

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    .308 submachinegun when

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      HK51K

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >HK51K
        AKA the automatic flashbang machine.

        Submachineguns are weapons generally smaller then a conventional rifle while firing pistol caliber rounds and being automatic/capable of select fire.
        The P90 meets literally all of those qualifiers. It's a pretty compact gun firing a pistol caliber round and is capable of select fire. Just because the round is pointy or capable of penetrating armor doesn't mean it's not a pistol caliber round.
        A PDW on the other hand is basically a giant catch all marketing term for anything that is somewhat smaller then a conventional rifle or carbine yet larger then a pistol with almost no unifying characteristics between them besides being somewhat smaller. After all a flux braced Glock or 320 has basically nothing in common with say a Mk18.

        In the end, it's only a matter of semantics. Several groups have used the P90 in an offensive role in CQB, and that's probably where it shines the most, so the PDW term isn't really fitting. The perfect PDW weapon IMO would be a select fire automatic pistol chambered in 5.7, with a folding stock and a small foregrip to help controlling the recoil, and maybe an extended mag to hold more than 20 rounds. Easily concealable under a jacket and packing a lot of firepower, basically a steroided Vz61. Also the ATF worst nightmare.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it isnt meant to compete with 5.56, its meant to replace 9mm in every way except maybe suppression. 50 round mag in a compact package, with rounds that perform equal to or better than 9mm is pretty nice.
    >muh sbr
    yeah you'd get more energy, but once 5.7 is coming out of a 10in barrel or longer its going fast enough to tear shit up with its tumbling (2,550ft/s for ss195lf common 28g FN ammo, and 3,100ft/s for the rarer and overpriced elite ammo S4) so i feel good enough about it. i love my p90, its effective while looking cool.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In a world where nobody has effective personal body armor the SMG is pretty much the ideal weapon, which is why it's so prevalent from the 1940s to the early 1990s. Controllable, fully automatic fire in a smaller package is great, especially for the troops who aren't going to be on the front very often and you don't want lugging around a rifle, but you want to have more than a pistol to defend themselves.

    By the time the 80s roll around, Kevlar has been invented, and militaries have started to equip their soldiers with soft body armor systems sufficient to defeat pistol rounds. (PASGT in the US, 6B2/3 in Soviet Union, etc). So people starts looking into how to upgrade their SMGs to defeat these threats.

    Enter the P90 and the 5.7 SS190 round, developed in the 80s and state of the art in 1990. Great for what it's designed to do, which is to allow a rear-echelon soldier to put down a VDV paratrooper by defeating their 6b3 armor with its 20 layers of aramid and 1.5 mm of titanium.

    The problem is that the window where this is a good solution rapidly closes, because armor development kicks into high gear at this point. By the mid-2000s, everyone has developed and issued armor with ballistic plates that can stop at least one hit with basic ball rifle ammo, and can shrug off any amount of hits from anything you can fire out of a pistol SMG. (Interceptor in the US, 6B23 in Russia).

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >a rear-echelon soldier to put down a VDV paratrooper
      thats not true, the rest is though. the paratroopers had armor at that point that could take 5.56

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        True, but nobody in the West knew that at the time.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Great for what it's designed to do, which is to allow a rear-echelon soldier to put down a VDV paratrooper by defeating their 6b3 armor with its 20 layers of aramid and 1.5 mm of titanium.
      ha ha ha you fool you've activated my trap card

      ?t=351

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i usually just go with gays delight or piece of shit

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Submachineguns are weapons generally smaller then a conventional rifle while firing pistol caliber rounds and being automatic/capable of select fire.
    The P90 meets literally all of those qualifiers. It's a pretty compact gun firing a pistol caliber round and is capable of select fire. Just because the round is pointy or capable of penetrating armor doesn't mean it's not a pistol caliber round.
    A PDW on the other hand is basically a giant catch all marketing term for anything that is somewhat smaller then a conventional rifle or carbine yet larger then a pistol with almost no unifying characteristics between them besides being somewhat smaller. After all a flux braced Glock or 320 has basically nothing in common with say a Mk18.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    5.56 is already an "intermediate" round. You make it smaller, it's a pistol round. You put a pistol round in a short form stocked gun that can toggle to auto fire, it's a submachine gun.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Cause it's a SMG? It's like asking why people call an AK or G36 an assault rifle when it's firing a nerfed 7.62x54r or 7.62x52

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >nerfed 5.56 round
    But 5.7 > 5.56?

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    because 5.56 is a machine gun cartridge

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >why smg when it fire pistol round
    that's what submachinegun means, retard

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It’s one of the only guns that definitively fits the PDW descriptor.

    I don’t know what the length cut off is for a cartridge to be full size, but intermediate is somewhere underneath 7.62x51, and 5.7x28 is definitely pistol caliber.

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