Only 9 Abrams tanks were destroyed during the Gulf War out of 3,113 that were deployed.

Only 9 Abrams tanks were destroyed during the Gulf War out of 3,113 that were deployed.

Out of those 9, 7 were destroyed by friendly fire.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They weren't even totally wrecked, they were just deemed knocked out. Could have been salvaged. There's a long report on the M1 and M2's performance in the Gulf War.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      How'd the M2s do?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Quite well, however of the handful that were knocked out most of those were a total loss. Armor much thinner, and did not have the blowout panels and fuel compartmentalization of the Abrams

        >Out of those 9, 7 were destroyed by friendly fire.
        Ameeriiicaaaaaaaa

        the US went into the conflict without any of the modern IFF panels and gen 1 thermals, sometimes in sandstorm conditions

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You hear about so much friendly fire from that war it's amazing they decided it was a good idea to give troops optics that allow them to see across entire battlefields without knowing who they're actually looking.
          Whoever dropped the ball there should have been hung

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            hanged*

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              No, he's trying to say that giving your infantry force multiplier optics but not the training or kit to use them effectively is a big dick move.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The best part is that if you take one out it doesn't catch on fire and cook the crew

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      survivability is a foreign concept to our barbarian horde geopolitical rivals
      they just can't comprehend a world where those extra few hundred/thousand battle-hardened troops who survive an engagement might tip the scales in a long-term war
      because they are retarded

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Out of those 9, 7 were destroyed by friendly fire.
    Ameeriiicaaaaaaaa

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Those 7 were a handicap for Saddam.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is what Russian people think their military is doing in Ukraine

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      bros how did America get so good at war

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Stupidly prosperous and advanced society.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Semitic influence

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Mastered logistics after having to transport entire armies across the oceans

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        the US has had only 15 years of peace out of 244 years of it's existence

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Khorne is pleased

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        When you love something you strive to be the best at it. America is the Tom Brady of war.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Civil War basically taught us that war was becoming a contest of who could bring the most resources to bear. Combine that with the country's massive economic resources and it's really a no-brainer.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If nerds produce good R&D military tech they get paid out the ass. Lot of other reasons, I hate to say free journalism press but it plays a part. I remember when the Bush admin got pilloried for the lack of good body armor and vehicle armor. "Army that you have not the army that you want". Rumsfeld didn't get the boot then and there but I believe he left shortly thereafter, and unless the Bush admin started to try and remedy it they'd feel electoral pressure eventually. In Russia that'd never have happened. I mean the spinning dredel top that is the T72 has been likely known as an issue since the 80s if not 90s and it hasn't been fixed yet. We had IEDs causing problems for humvees and now we don't use them much anymore.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Having a stable and free society is almost always better in the long run. That includes a functioning press.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            well that's gone

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              no. stop reading social media and go outside.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              if you actually take some time to read articles and avoid opinion pieces there is still a lot of good journalism out there, the problem is the clickbait and devisive stuff is heavily incentivised because people just read headlines and outrage bait. There is also the big problem of large tech companies becoming a bigger and bigger part of public discourse and being pretty biased in which voices they allow on their platforns

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's been the seminal lesson from both this and China's chinkflu. For all our endless shitholes problems the fundamentals underlying it allow a much greater success than authoritarian shitholes do, who are universally potemkin villages. I mean the exact same
            >Huh maybe a strong man fascism is the way of the future
            idealism of the 20s and 30s was happening in the 2010s with people idolizing strongmen (like Trudeau idolizing Xi's dictatorship for how it can tackle climate change, or the obvious orange man bad blah blah blah) only to find out the strongmen live in a house of cards.

            well that's gone

            Ours is straining the credulity of functioning but it's still possible to access widespread and popular opposition media. The left is doing what it can to silence that kind of opposition, but we're not doomed just yet. On the way to it, but not yet.

            He's referring to Tocqueville's Democracy in America. Basically a French dude who visited the U.S. right after the revolution and commented on the society he found. He was particularly impressed by the New England township as a forum for dealing with problems and he felt the lessons it taught citizens would empower wider society.
            It's a good book.

            More than anything it's a decline of that which I blame for our decline. You want to see something sad?

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Belenko#:~:text=Viktor%20Ivanovich%20Belenko%20(Russian%3A%20%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80,George%20H.%20W.
            > "[Americans] have tolerance regarding other people's opinion. In certain cultures, if you do not accept the mainstream, you would be booted out or might disappear. Here we have people—you know, who hug trees, and people who want to cut them down—and they live side by side!"

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I think the internet has really fucked us up. Humans really weren't built to handle the type of interactions social media enables. In 25 years I think we'll be a lot more careful about the digital media we consime. Kind of like cigarettes we all know it's bad but exactly how bad is unclear.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        If you believe the French it's because we harnessed the power of the Township

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          well that's gone

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >t. Toqueville

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >the power of the Township
          What does this mean?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            local governance instead of central authority

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He's referring to Tocqueville's Democracy in America. Basically a French dude who visited the U.S. right after the revolution and commented on the society he found. He was particularly impressed by the New England township as a forum for dealing with problems and he felt the lessons it taught citizens would empower wider society.
            It's a good book.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            These guys

            >t. Toqueville

            local governance instead of central authority

            He's referring to Tocqueville's Democracy in America. Basically a French dude who visited the U.S. right after the revolution and commented on the society he found. He was particularly impressed by the New England township as a forum for dealing with problems and he felt the lessons it taught citizens would empower wider society.
            It's a good book.

            got the reference but

            local governance instead of central authority

            said it best. Honorable mention for

            Democracy promotes competence

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Democracy promotes competence

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Democracies are always in a state of natural war. War for its existence, externally and internally, one must be ready to protect it at all times and not falter or the blade of a authoritarian will sink into you.

        It is from this that we learn that Democracies are not inherently peaceful or cowardly, but the most natural state for any station to be ready for war of its existence.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Which is why i hope this war just turns into a super low intensity one that can focus most of our war energy for a while. If russia is neutralized as a threat d.c will start antagonizing beijing, maybe have another go at assad, who knows, there always has to be some great foe to hunt. It really is ceaseless

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It really comes down to prosperity. Good quality of life attracts competent people who immigrate and contribute to their new nation. Competent people want to defend their good quality of life so naturally they will contribute to their security.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        We're good at everything.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        practice, practice, practice.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Money, airplane.
        Money for airplanes
        Pallet

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        delivering explosion is like delivering hamberder

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I am usually ashamed to admit this on the internet as an American, but hamburgers are my favorite food. I had a hamburger for lunch today, and I will probably have another one tomorrow. I love hamberder.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I went to In n Out for dinner, dwai bro
            Burgers are the future

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        cause every other country thinks like this

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How does an entire society become so far beyond saving? Is it the inbreeding from being stuck on an island? Even my far-left, blue haired, anti-gun ex who idolizes the British and moved there from America could still see the value in having a thing of pepper spray on her keychain. I'm ashamed to share a language with them.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They weren't always like this; the bobbies might never have been armed, but civilians could and did carry pistols for self-defense for a long time. When did it change? Sometime between 1910 and 1950. It probably had something to do with the massive loss of life from the wars, and the subsequent socialist governments that destroyed many of their traditional freedoms, but I am not an expert in that area.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I think it's pointless to talk about commies taking freedoms away from people without mentioning the other groups that didn't reinstate said freedoms once in power

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I dunno man, there's always been this strangely oriental thread of British subservience to authority. Not in terms of gun ownership but just as a general rule. It's very strange - this isn't to say that continentals were Egalitarian but that their people were far more rowdy and disagreeable about being proles. Not to say the English can't be rowdy, they just have this weird rowdiness yet acceptance of their place. Throw fists and thrash shit because mtumbu got a red card and that cost norf fc the match but happily take the most nanny state shit imaginable. Rather bit like orcs innit.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            All the aggressive genes died in a trench, or moved to the US or Australia

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            We eugenically bred the hostile and violent members of our society over the last 1000ish years out by killing roughly 1-2% of the population every generation.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The learned helplessness of that culture is infuriating. Fucking cattle, and proud of it

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          am phoneposter, what do reddit comments say?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            OP wants to institute a loicence to carry pepper spray for personal defence
            >No, Britain is safe
            >More weapons equals more crime
            >Using it would be assault
            >When people could own weapons in this country we had a mass shooting
            Utterly mindbroken commitment to disarmed helplessness

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They say you need to get a computer

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Get Clover and stop outing yourself, dear God.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >use my chinese spyware app
              how about no

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              we still know who phoneposters are, by the low quality of their posts

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Retards will out themselves any day of the year wether they're posting from a TI-82 or the Google quantum computer. Phoneposters are a boogeyman just like the mysterious 12 year olds that can only touch a computer if they haven't been inside a school within 50 hours.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This reads like satire. The only thing that doesn't is the "extreme knee-jerk policies to statistically tiny evens are daft at the best of times" and you bet that would be said in an entirely different context in the US.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Redditors are the average person in that country
          I can bet with 100% certainty non of those people live around minorities. The Reddit population base is almost entirely white liberals living in white neighbourhoods that think the average black person is someone earning 45k a year doing design work, or their uni freinds.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          these people are unironically right, but for the wrong reasons

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No, not every other country is like that, the UK is just especially fucked with the amount of estrogen morons and shitskins

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        they're literally shit at it lol

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          /k/ope

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It’s not that the US is good at war, everyone else is just that fucking bad at it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        logistics, production, power projection

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        the gulf war to me (the very wise armchair general) seemed like exactly what the US had been preparing for for the entirety of the cold war. A ground war against against a primarily soviet equipped large army

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Non-stop counter natives insurgency, and all the irascibles from the Old World willing to fight and die to fuck off on their own.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The US has 1) the single largest GDP on the planet, 2) the most advanced technology on the planet (or can get it from allies), 3) learned the key elements of conventional warfare (combined arms and logistics) in WWII and has optimized for that ever since.

        The US isn't as good at unconventional war, partly because of a value system that emphasizes the individual, which means that things like ethnic cleansing, and collective punishment are more or less unheard of in the last 80 years. Killing innocents doesn't sit right with John and Jane Q. Public, and getting caught doing so blatantly or en masse is a good way to lose public support for military actions.

        Now, you can point to all kinds of underlying characteristics that brought this about, from the zeitgeist of individualism that flourished around the Founding, to the unique geography that put the world's largest breadbasket right on top of the world's longest system of interconnected navigable waterways, to the Protestant work ethic that formed in the US, to the immigration from Europe of classes that saw opportunity and accepted that work ethic as their own, to... all kinds of things.

        History can be awfully funny at times. It's rarely just one thing that can be pointed to as the sole cause of a broad-reaching effect.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Yeah bro, we could have won in Afghanistan if we'd just taken the gloves off and raised the eyebrow
          Why do people think like this? The Soviets tried this, it didn't work any better.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous
        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          dumb euro

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        US lost most of the wars it fought.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          yuropean propaganda

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        L O D S O F E M O N E

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        We were the first to learn what modern war was like in the 1860s and have been building on that ever since, almost a 60 year head start from most of the other developed nations

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Anglo supremacy

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        the Federal Reserve's monetary black magic has put us 1-2 generations ahead of every other nation on earth
        >captcha XM0MMA
        gib central banker milkies

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Fucktons spent on R&D compared to other countries. Russia has barely any new technology that isn't just stolen or rebranded Western tech announced years ago. Same with China.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No Russian believes this, literally every Russian dude I know has given up faith in the war for months

      The people you see shilling for Russia are mostly mutt/eurotrash 17 year old contrarians

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Those B-52s
      Imagine getting bombed by someone that was 9 timezones away from you.
      They took off from fucking Louisiana of all places, bombed a bunch of Saddam's forces in the ME halfway across the world, and were back home in time for dinner back in Barksdale, all in less than 48 hours. Insane stuff

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    that is pretty impressively low number considering the numbers deployed

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If they are so good why is the US so afraid to send them to Ukraine? Is it because their numbers are all propaganda and Abrams would be absolutely demolished by T-90s and Armatas?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, that's it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Is it because their numbers are all propaganda

      I’m actually trying to think about how this would work. Like, how could the Army lie to Congress about any large discrepancies in equipment losses.

      I don’t think it’s as easy here as it is in mother Russia.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      wait until lend lease kicks in october

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If they are so good why is the US so afraid to send them to Ukraine? Is it because their numbers are all propaganda and Abrams would be absolutely demolished by T-90s and Armatas?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They're a massive logistics sink; even worse than the T-80 under some circumstances (although probably not overall, since newer M1 models have APUs). It also takes time to train crews on them. It's the same reason Ukraine hasn't been given Leopard 2s, despite a number of European nations having them to spare.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >newer models
        Abrams have had APUs since right after GW1, they just didn't get internal APUs until Iraq

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because that shit requires Training, which requires time and money. You can't just slap a bunch of soldiers in a tank, say "these are the controls, good luck" and expect them to be good.
      You have to educate them on the little tricks and oddities so they can operate it without accidentally breaking shit. You have to make them understand the limitations of their vehicle so they don't charge into a situation the Abrams wasn't built for. You have to ingrain into their skulls every important detail about how the Abrams works so they can fix it if it ever gets damaged or stuck.

      If you're going to spout propaganda regarding this war, then use your fucking brain so that you at least have a *CHANCE* at fooling someone.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >T-90s
      The base T-90 is just a T-72 and the T-90M is pretty much as vapourware as the Armata
      An M1A2 would munch through half a dozen T-90s

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        T-90M is in service, so it isn't really vapourware

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Its a good tank, and makes everyone seethe.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You forgot the
    >zero crew fatalities

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      blowout panels and spall liners will do that to a mf

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Abrams has no spall liner. The crew wear body armour though

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Abrams has no spall liner.
          a quick google search says that it does actually have a kevlar spall liner

          even the M60A3 has spall liners

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            As far as I am aware, no Abrams recieved a spall liner, which you can confirm with your own eyes (maybe SEPv3 onwards and newer. Bradley recieved spall liner from the A2 onwards

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              only reference to M1s not having a spall liner is from a steel beast forum and an unsourced claim from another forum saying its armor didnt need a spall liner

              every other source says it does have a spall liner

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And also the fact that photos of an interior, don't show a spall liner

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                spall liners aren't exactly fuzzy coatings anon

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              it's a homogenous coat you retard, you're looking at the spall liner when you see the inside, it's not a fucking blanket fort like in your bedroom, you child

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    WHAT DOES THE REDDIT FROG HAVE TO DO WITH THAT?

    WHAT DOES THE REDDIT FROG HAVE TO DO WITH THAT?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The expression on the reddif frog's face is that of disappointed disbelief.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >we need to make Pepe the frog gay so the far right stops using it

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It’s even funnier that he refers to it as “the Reddit frog” when Reddit banned Pepe for “hate” years ago. It’s trying to associate something “alt right” posters use, with something they hate to discourage it’s spread.
        Really 80 IQ campaign all around and blatantly inorganic.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The feds have had a hate boner for Pepe/frog posting since Hilary freaked out about it on television. I don’t get why they care? Maybe Keks real lmao?

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So, Abrams is the best contemporary tank, correct?
    Leopard 2
    Merkava mk4
    The Russian and Korean meme tanks
    some other american tank
    ZTZ-99 MBT
    WHat is best? Why do WW2 tanks have so much more soul than flat-headed crab Abrams designs?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      because in ww2 nobody knew what makes a good tank, everyone was just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what stuck. Heavy tanks, tank destroyers, light tanks, etc. were all made defunct by the MBT

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >retard thinks sovl makes something good

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >hy do WW2 tanks have so much more soul than flat-headed crab Abrams designs?
      all MBTs have slab-sided designs to maximize protection afforded by NERA

      WW2 tanks are made of steel, so you have more varied designs
      cast armor is 10% weaker than welded but you can give it more complex shapes
      rolled armor is tougher but can only take the form of wide flat sheets that need to be welded together like a puzzle
      so every tank had different shapes based on manufacturing capabilities each country had, germans had more welders so they had more boxy tanks, US had massive casting facilities so they had more curve-y tanks, and so on

      but modern tanks are all made of the same thing, deep NERA arrays on the outside and ceramic or DU on the inside
      any varying geometry is covered up by the NERA, which prefers to be as wide and flat as possible
      and modern guns can accurately hit up to 2km away, or 4km if they are able to take up good positions, so at such distances your tank will rarely show much of its side armor, so theres a much stronger preference for pentagonal designs as opposed to circular designs to maximize protection from a narrow arc

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The M1 had flat surfaces because of how its then-new armor (Chobham) was built. Prior to the M1, all US tank turrets were rounded; not squat domes like Soviet MBTs, but complex shapes, generally cast instead of welded (which allowed for varying thicknesses at different points). Look at the M4, M26, M48, M60.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    how the FUCK do you even begin explaining that your team just torched one of your own tanks???

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      when they get disabled the americans blow them up so they can't fall intact into enemy hands

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      gnomish operators

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's a good tank but the comparison with Ukraine, which is the elephant in the room, is moot.
    Ukraine has used (and is using) multiple times t he AT arsenal of a first world country.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    “Official numbers”

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      that's clearly Iraq not GW1, and some of those are repeats

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wrong war, silly.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      and still not a single one of those suffered a catastrophic ammo detonation

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Superiority of american weaponry and tactics is unquestionable

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No challenger 2s have ever been destroyed by enemy fire.
    This simple fact makes PrepHole seethe, mald and cope like nopthing else.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The main armour of a Challenger 2 has never been penetrated either. The blue on blue kill went through the commander's hatch and the RPG-29 hit the bottom of the lower glacis.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The size of the US contingent never ceases to amaze me.
    >Battle of Norfolk
    Allied losses
    >American Sector:
    21 killed
    67 wounded
    4 tanks destroyed
    4 IFVs destroyed
    Objective Dorset:
    15 killed
    27 wounded
    3 tanks damaged
    >British Sector:
    15 killed (9 ff)
    43 wounded
    2 IFVs destroyed (both ff)

    Allied gains
    >American Sector:
    937 captured
    550 tanks destroyed
    480 armoured vehicles destroyed
    396 artillery pieces destroyed
    Objective Dorset:
    2,500 captured
    300 tanks & IFVs destroyed
    >British Sector:
    7,000+ captured
    300 tanks destroyed & captured
    Heavy IFV losses
    Heavy artillery losses

    How does the Anglo do it?
    I love reading stories about the other armoured vehicles in the Gulf like the Bradlies Lav25s Stormers and Scorpions. Any one have any?
    Here's one of my favs, FV101 Scorpion
    >Two personnel from the Queen's Royal Irish Hussars were injured when their Scorpion armoured reconnaissance vehicles were fired on by US M1 Abrams tanks. They had stopped to take the surrender of Iraqi troops, when one Scorpion was hit in the front by a round from a US M1 tank, firing from about 1500 m to the north. The driver escaped without injury, but a soldier walking alongside received shrapnel wounds.
    >When the US personnel realised their mistake they assisted with the treatment of the injured British soldiers and their evacuation to hospital.
    Imagine getting hit by a fucking 120mm cannon in a Scorpion and surviving lol, pic very much related.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fuck, that looks fun.
      I'm assuming the hit went in sideways?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Penned the front zipped past the driver and out the back lol
        I think both the US and UK sometimes used training ammo for engagements so I'm guessing it was one of those or a Sabot, if it was a Heat round I guess it would have been obliterated.

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