The head of Wagner doesn't give a shit about his men. If he can take Bakhmut, it'll be Russia first victory in the war, even if Bakhmut holds zero strategic value for either side of the war. He can use this win to catapult himself into higher positions in the Russian government.
>If he can take Bakhmut, it'll be Russia first victory in the war
ok, i checked and in still in the timeline where this is not the only success Russia had?
A lot of "analysis" is just someone's opinion or some thought someone threw around. But it's either that or Russians are literally retarded as an explanation.
While you're probably not wrong, that doesn't show mercenaries
Unless of course what you're implying is that all soldiery are mercenaries, and always have been, and you'd be right
There is no distinction between professional soldiery and mercenary bands that held loyalty to a kingdom/nation/state
That makes no sense. By the same logic, most of the condottieri and landsknechts weren't mercenaries because they fought for Italians or Germans factions most of the time.
In all seriousness, it's because they occupy a grey zone of legal definition.
You wouldn't call a bouncer hired to stand guard outside a pub a "mercenary" (or maybe you might, I dunno) and you wouldn't call a BAE contractor tinkering on a piece of military machinery in maintenance a "mercenary".
Well, PMCs essentially minimise their combat role on paper as much as possible, selling themselves mostly as a provider of civilian security services (like bouncers), technicians, advisors and consultants, etc.
So even though they are a de facto mercenary military force, they make themselves quite slippery in definition from a legal perspective.
That's just regular old politics in authoritarian shitholes lmao
russia is a society that takes pride in not abiding by its own laws on any level. they exist purely as an excuse whenever the big man decides he needs you locked away
If you absolutely MUST advance over an open field without support, that's probably one of the better ways to do it. Lucky there was no opposition or at least not determined opposition
The military wants to make penal brigades so they have to stop Wagner from taking them all.
>PMC
why not call them mercenaries like in any point of time in history?
The difference is scale, that would be like calling BlackRock landlords, technically correct but they are so big they are closer to an investment firm.
People are so fucking wrapped up in the shitty shininess of Wagner that everyone misses the actual, real PMC Putin seems to have thrown his faith behind.
Shoigu (fucking Shoigu wood-goblin of all people) has his PMC Patriot getting prime, competent Russian former Spetsnaz and GRU personnel, they're paid something like $12k (not rubles, dollars) equivalent per two month contract, and they have access to MoD stocks much more directly (and usually best of the litter, too, thanks to it being *owned* by Shoigu) so they're on average, far better equipped than even Wagner, and they actually interface with and work more closely/organically with the Russian military and especially the GRU than Wagner.
Putin is definitely trying to weaken Wagner if for no other reason than it puts Shoigu and his PMC at the top of the pack. I seriously bet Wagner will become a sideshow to PMC Patriot within the Russian state by the time this mess is over and done with.
They're the reserve in case the ukies run out of ATGMs and landmines so that they can rush through and claim credit for the whole thing.
So far, I don't think they've actually led any assaults or took any independent action, so they just be another paper parade unit cooked up by the propaganda department to look good on newsreels.
But wouldn't Putin want Wagner to be strong if that is the case? That would allow him to pit both PMCs against each other in a power struggle to keep them contained.
The shoigunate is loyal and part of the inner sphere, pirogis ambitions has of late seemed to extend further than allowed. While a friend of Putin's he's a useful tool for the elite, not an equal amongst them as I understand it.
Wagner is the personal PMC of a friend of Putin, other Putin friends have personal PMCs that work directly with the Russian military while Wagner was being used as sort of clean-up crew that it's owner used for operations that Putin wanted off the record. Russian military, the other Putin's friends are using places like Bakhmut as a killing ground against Wagner and as a way to embarrass it's owner, who has in turn been using Wagner's performance to embarrass the leaders of the Russian military.
Keep telling you lads, look to the Romans and all becomes clear. They were desperate to keep Pompey and Caesar and their legions as far away from Rome as possible.
>Before his death Julius Caesar was engaged in composing regulations for the distribution of grain to the poor and other matters for the welfare of Rome and of Italy.
Somehow I don't think Putin is worried about Prigozhin winning over the people with socialist policy.
>Western Analysis: Russia is running out of artillery shells >Western Analysis: Russia can fight for two more years >Western Analysis: Wagner is likely winning >Western Analysis: Wagner is likely losing
>Wagner is good because it recruited competent russian officers in the past >this drains competent officers from the army >now all officers in the army are corrupt incompetent dickheads >use wagner in frontlines instead of using them to train new troops > do this to get rid of the remaining competent officers in your country >now your country cant train good officers anymore
seriously, what the fuck is the MoD even thinking, assuming that they even want to win the war.
>this drains competent officers from the army
Ukes are right to hold and waste the experienced grunt pool, a static minimal action front is as advantageous to Russia as a full blown cease fire. Can't let this turn into a 'frozen conflict' if the ambition is irredentist.
Nobody is going to coup Putin in any scenario in the close future as it would be highly detrimental to their own health, military and other high officials gain their power and wealth from the current establishment and like it that way, why shift all that shit up into chaos? If Pirogi tried everything and everyone would get him.
Even if they're not strict materialists as described above they would not want Russia to turn into a chaotic shithole (yes yes I know) for patriotic reasons of just human reason. Nor would the international community due to the uncertainty of the nuclear arsenal.
You may be right, but I think the current establishment is moribund given its failures in Ukraine. The Russian kleptocratic oligarchs were making more money prior to the disastrous war and the concomitant sanctions. The gravy train has since been derailed. So if things are getting worse do they think that Putin will secure a victory or quasi-victory in Ukraine or do they fear a 1917/1991 situation?
>or do they fear a 1917/1991 situation?
If they do, they have no fucking say anyway and most likely no way to take him out and grab power. The oligarchs don't rule as such anymore as Putin brought them to heel and took a lot of their shit as tribute to allow them to continue.
PMCs are the scum of the fucking earth, and anyone who thinks they are a good idea is a 20iq retard. They should all be killed.
>you can't get rich from the war plebian
>only we, the plutocrats can
I couldn't give less of a shit about mercs.
Why doesn't Wagner just, leave?
because it would be a colossal embarrassment
for you
The head of Wagner doesn't give a shit about his men. If he can take Bakhmut, it'll be Russia first victory in the war, even if Bakhmut holds zero strategic value for either side of the war. He can use this win to catapult himself into higher positions in the Russian government.
>If he can take Bakhmut, it'll be Russia first victory in the war
ok, i checked and in still in the timeline where this is not the only success Russia had?
>If he can take Bakhmut, it'll be Russia first victory in the war
what
they won plenty of victories
May I see them?
>Haha, just leave bro
>just let the front collapse, Pultler will understand
Damn hadn't looked at it like this proggy is in a choke hold lol. Chauvinist asshole treats him right.
NKVD blocking detachment won't let then.
>NKVD blocking detachment
The k stands for Kadyrovite
They threatened to do exactly that this week. Just up and leave the front and let Ukraine walk back into their territory
Then Pirogi will "just leave" life, by window jumping, his uppity attitude has him on thin ice already
'western analysis' is basically PR designed for consumption by western audiences when newspapers quote it
A lot of "analysis" is just someone's opinion or some thought someone threw around. But it's either that or Russians are literally retarded as an explanation.
Jealous the west can actually make an analysis instead of just repating "Great success!" everytime Puccia asks for war status?
>PMC
why not call them mercenaries like in any point of time in history?
The scale is bigger. Like comparing a city to a town
How? More mercenaries fought during the Thirty Years' War.
While you're probably not wrong, that doesn't show mercenaries
Unless of course what you're implying is that all soldiery are mercenaries, and always have been, and you'd be right
There is no distinction between professional soldiery and mercenary bands that held loyalty to a kingdom/nation/state
Because they're technically not. Think about it this way:
>Veteran Russian soldiers
>Fighting for Russia
>On Russia's paycheck
That makes no sense. By the same logic, most of the condottieri and landsknechts weren't mercenaries because they fought for Italians or Germans factions most of the time.
Italy and Germany weren't countries back then, so said Germans and Italians eere fighting for a bunch of different countries
landsknechts were most often employed by >Imperial armies and the >Empire was technically a country.
they are the modern day corsairs.
>give no quarter to them holols Arrgh!!!
In all seriousness, it's because they occupy a grey zone of legal definition.
You wouldn't call a bouncer hired to stand guard outside a pub a "mercenary" (or maybe you might, I dunno) and you wouldn't call a BAE contractor tinkering on a piece of military machinery in maintenance a "mercenary".
Well, PMCs essentially minimise their combat role on paper as much as possible, selling themselves mostly as a provider of civilian security services (like bouncers), technicians, advisors and consultants, etc.
So even though they are a de facto mercenary military force, they make themselves quite slippery in definition from a legal perspective.
Americans sperged out when people called their guns for hire in Iraq mercenaries, insisting on the PMC term. Guess it stuck.
arent PMC's illegal in russia?
They are, which is why Wagner is not officially a PMC
how do they explain the massive employee deaths? there must be a fuck ton paperwork from work safety inspection
>work safety inspection
I don't think you get how things work in this country...
What deaths? They're all MIA or deserters.
Are they just arm of Prigozhin's catering company? Are they simply losing chefs and bus boys in Ukraine?
That's just regular old politics in authoritarian shitholes lmao
russia is a society that takes pride in not abiding by its own laws on any level. they exist purely as an excuse whenever the big man decides he needs you locked away
That's the beauty of the whole thing anon. Putin just executes the leaders at the end.
We are literally living in a Call of Duty world
Did you forget that Russia steams rolls America and Europe in Call of Duty?
Yes
They should have brought back gung-ho for MW22.
If you absolutely MUST advance over an open field without support, that's probably one of the better ways to do it. Lucky there was no opposition or at least not determined opposition
the orcheastra is going down with the ship.
What are some tactical advantages?
The military wants to make penal brigades so they have to stop Wagner from taking them all.
The difference is scale, that would be like calling BlackRock landlords, technically correct but they are so big they are closer to an investment firm.
People are so fucking wrapped up in the shitty shininess of Wagner that everyone misses the actual, real PMC Putin seems to have thrown his faith behind.
Shoigu (fucking Shoigu wood-goblin of all people) has his PMC Patriot getting prime, competent Russian former Spetsnaz and GRU personnel, they're paid something like $12k (not rubles, dollars) equivalent per two month contract, and they have access to MoD stocks much more directly (and usually best of the litter, too, thanks to it being *owned* by Shoigu) so they're on average, far better equipped than even Wagner, and they actually interface with and work more closely/organically with the Russian military and especially the GRU than Wagner.
Putin is definitely trying to weaken Wagner if for no other reason than it puts Shoigu and his PMC at the top of the pack. I seriously bet Wagner will become a sideshow to PMC Patriot within the Russian state by the time this mess is over and done with.
Arent shoigu’s boys the ones getting gibbed en mass in vuhledar?
They're the reserve in case the ukies run out of ATGMs and landmines so that they can rush through and claim credit for the whole thing.
So far, I don't think they've actually led any assaults or took any independent action, so they just be another paper parade unit cooked up by the propaganda department to look good on newsreels.
>GRU personnel have joined the Patriots
Interesting, so have they managed to secure the Philosophers legacy?
Are there any pics of PMC patriot? Any visible distinction of them from the rest of Russian forces?
>the head of the Minister of Defense has his own PMC company
Literal MW2 Shadow Company shit lmao
>than even Wagner
Not hard
But wouldn't Putin want Wagner to be strong if that is the case? That would allow him to pit both PMCs against each other in a power struggle to keep them contained.
The shoigunate is loyal and part of the inner sphere, pirogis ambitions has of late seemed to extend further than allowed. While a friend of Putin's he's a useful tool for the elite, not an equal amongst them as I understand it.
Not to mention the russian elites would never accept a foreigner like Shoigu in a position of real power. That makes him a natural ally for Putin.
Isn't wagner build on a cadre of elite former russian SOF? They just inflated their numbers with cannon fodder nowadays for ukraine.
I could actually believe this and that it's a power game between the future heads of private armies during Russia's upcoming Warlord Era
That's giving them far to much credit I think, incompetence and conspiracy are almost indistinguishable
>ukies using bakhmut to degrade wagner
>russians also using bakhmut to degrade wagner
what the fuck
Wagner is the personal PMC of a friend of Putin, other Putin friends have personal PMCs that work directly with the Russian military while Wagner was being used as sort of clean-up crew that it's owner used for operations that Putin wanted off the record. Russian military, the other Putin's friends are using places like Bakhmut as a killing ground against Wagner and as a way to embarrass it's owner, who has in turn been using Wagner's performance to embarrass the leaders of the Russian military.
America trying to use divide and conquer propaganda lol
"western analysis" lol
since when those western experts are credible ??
you gringos cant think by your selves ??
>gringos
Buenos días, señores!
Anyone got the compilation of "Bakhmut has fallen" screencaps?
>Reusing the "Trump Lost Simulator" memes
I can't tell if troll, stupid or delusional
Keep telling you lads, look to the Romans and all becomes clear. They were desperate to keep Pompey and Caesar and their legions as far away from Rome as possible.
>Before his death Julius Caesar was engaged in composing regulations for the distribution of grain to the poor and other matters for the welfare of Rome and of Italy.
Somehow I don't think Putin is worried about Prigozhin winning over the people with socialist policy.
>Western Analysis: Russia is running out of artillery shells
>Western Analysis: Russia can fight for two more years
>Western Analysis: Wagner is likely winning
>Western Analysis: Wagner is likely losing
why does PrepHole just eat up every single piece of propaganda that is made. I would have thought that you autists weren't so gullible.
>Wagner is good because it recruited competent russian officers in the past
>this drains competent officers from the army
>now all officers in the army are corrupt incompetent dickheads
>use wagner in frontlines instead of using them to train new troops
> do this to get rid of the remaining competent officers in your country
>now your country cant train good officers anymore
seriously, what the fuck is the MoD even thinking, assuming that they even want to win the war.
>this drains competent officers from the army
Ukes are right to hold and waste the experienced grunt pool, a static minimal action front is as advantageous to Russia as a full blown cease fire. Can't let this turn into a 'frozen conflict' if the ambition is irredentist.
>Water is likely wet
>Bears most probably defecate in the woods
>Pope in all likelihood Catholic
>Pope in all likelihood Catholic
Jokes on you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_of_the_Coptic_Orthodox_Church
>The Russian winter offensive
There are two possibilities.
1. Putin is sending Wagner to die in an Uriah gambit.
2. Western intelligence is trying to convince Prigozhin that Putin is doing number 1 so Wagner coups Putin.
Nobody is going to coup Putin in any scenario in the close future as it would be highly detrimental to their own health, military and other high officials gain their power and wealth from the current establishment and like it that way, why shift all that shit up into chaos? If Pirogi tried everything and everyone would get him.
Even if they're not strict materialists as described above they would not want Russia to turn into a chaotic shithole (yes yes I know) for patriotic reasons of just human reason. Nor would the international community due to the uncertainty of the nuclear arsenal.
You may be right, but I think the current establishment is moribund given its failures in Ukraine. The Russian kleptocratic oligarchs were making more money prior to the disastrous war and the concomitant sanctions. The gravy train has since been derailed. So if things are getting worse do they think that Putin will secure a victory or quasi-victory in Ukraine or do they fear a 1917/1991 situation?
>or do they fear a 1917/1991 situation?
If they do, they have no fucking say anyway and most likely no way to take him out and grab power. The oligarchs don't rule as such anymore as Putin brought them to heel and took a lot of their shit as tribute to allow them to continue.