now that the dust has settled, was the XM7 a good idea?

now that the dust has settled, was the XM7 a good idea?

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  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >XM7
      >with body armor penetration
      >M4
      >Less effective against modern body armor
      In reality they're both equally ineffective against modern body armor since neither can pen level 4 or equivalents. 5.56 is the clear winner.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >XM7
      >with body armor penetration
      >M4
      >Less effective against modern body armor
      In reality they're both equally ineffective against modern body armor since neither can pen level 4 or equivalents. 5.56 is the clear winner.

      Indeed since L4 armor is rated against 7.62x51 AP rounds however the 6.8 does provide more velocity and energy out of a 13" barrel than 5.56 out of 20" which could be advantageous. The rifle design itself I feel is moronic. People need to stop with the front charging lever. Seeing people try to finger frick that thing during loading is painful. The AR style charging handles work just fine. Half the holes cut into the hand guard are only there for weight savings and are useless for mounting. Couldn't they have just scaled the AR up to use the new rounds?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Indeed since L4 armor is rated against 7.62x51 AP rounds
        it might be formally rated against that but really that's just what it has to resist to be classified as Level IV...at minimum. nowadays even the shitty cheap options are being recorded as tanking +P .338 Lapua with steel cores out of 21" barrels from 50m...

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          > tanking +P .338 Lapua with steel cores out of 21" barrels from 50m...
          I am interested in the source for this.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            nta but there has been this video making the rounds for a while where an RMA plate (sketchy as hell) stops a .338 out of a 26" barrel at 25ft, so....yeah a bullet that's 100gr lighter and going out of a 13" barrel probably isn't going to pen at typical combat engagement ranges

            ?t=461

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >out of a 13" barrel
              Keep in mind that the whole point of the gigapressure cartridge is to make it act like a 7mm-08 out of an 18-20 inch barrel. That's still way less than a .338 magnum though.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              there also this one, actual .338 AP rounds against, also RMA IVs. granted this is at 200m but still, that doesn't bode well for .277...

              ?t=535

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >out of a 13" barrel
                Keep in mind that the whole point of the gigapressure cartridge is to make it act like a 7mm-08 out of an 18-20 inch barrel. That's still way less than a .338 magnum though.

                nta but there has been this video making the rounds for a while where an RMA plate (sketchy as hell) stops a .338 out of a 26" barrel at 25ft, so....yeah a bullet that's 100gr lighter and going out of a 13" barrel probably isn't going to pen at typical combat engagement ranges

                ?t=461

                > tanking +P .338 Lapua with steel cores out of 21" barrels from 50m...
                I am interested in the source for this.

                >Indeed since L4 armor is rated against 7.62x51 AP rounds
                it might be formally rated against that but really that's just what it has to resist to be classified as Level IV...at minimum. nowadays even the shitty cheap options are being recorded as tanking +P .338 Lapua with steel cores out of 21" barrels from 50m...

                Armor's won the game for the foreseeable future, ammunition is going to either have to become tungsten-core as standard issue (unlikely) or some major advancements will have to be made before the playing field isn't as skewed anymore. I honestly expect tried-and-true explosives are going to remain as the go-to for taking people out at distance and no amount of coping boomer generals are changing that.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >ammunition is going to either have to become tungsten-core as standard issue (unlikely)
                It's not unlikely, it's impossible. There isn't enough tungsten in the US or its allies to do that. Uranium core is possible if Australia is selling.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Uranium core bullets would be a war crime.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >ammunition is going to either have to become tungsten-core as standard issue (unlikely)
                It's not unlikely, it's impossible. There isn't enough tungsten in the US or its allies to do that. Uranium core is possible if Australia is selling.

                Industrial gemstone probably.
                Industrial rubies or diamond boart are cheap to make and definitely hard enough. Just need some kind of heavy weight behind them. Back to lead cores.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                They don't have the necessary fracture toughness though.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If that concerns you, then zirconia would be the best choice.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                somewhere near last post, best post

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                yeah it's crazy how absolutely no one is being shot to death at this very moment, truly, the landscape of warfare has been reinvented by ultra effective armor plates.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think you'd have to actually try to miss the point as hard as you did. Could English not be your first language and you misunderstood something?

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Could English not be your first language
                As a matter of fact it's my first degree, I won't hold it against you that you're still learning. Anyway, no. Your point was that tried-and-true explosives are going to remain as the go-to for taking people out at distance. That premise considered alone is true, but it follows an assertion that armor has won the game and that personal protection is somehow responsible for artillery's dominance of the battlefield even though that's nowhere near how that story goes. The topic at hand is the Army's adoption of the M7, because the Army's "coping boomers" seem to know something you don't about literally every war the U.S. has been involved in in the past 40 years, as well as the needs the U.S. will have in its next few decades of conflicts. To paraphrase, you still have to shoot people after the conventional war is won. The equipment available to the average insurgent, especially in anticipated conflict zones, is evolving very rapidly. .277 isn't defeating the peak of modern body armor, but it most certainly is placing a stronger type of fire into squads which in the best case will negate the advantages of armor, and in the worst deliver more lethal shots to extremities.

                So like I said, yeah. It's crazy how people are being shot to death right now and small arms lethality still matters in spite of your assertions to the contrary. homosexual.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >pro-NGSW gay has to make some manifesto to justify a neo-M14 he'll never even touch and sounds like a redditor throughout
                lmao every time

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                individual body armor has no effect whatsoever on the effectiveness of modern infantry using contemporary weapons. They cover a small portion of the body and each soldier is still extremely vulnerable to an enemy infantryman's rifle fire. And that's just a small part of the bigger picture. Other than just killing the enemy, you are fighting for position. Most combat isn't call of duty where two teams go in and only one is left standing. Most positions are abandoned on choice to preserve their force and usually only a fraction of a unit is rendered as casualties after an engagement unless something catastrophic has happened. You don't need a super expensive hyper lethal gigahomie rifle to get the enemy to frick off. You can arm an entire platoon with .22lr rifles and still make the enemy scared enough to fallback from superiority of fire and flanking maneuvers.

                If you actually have an English degree I suggest that you look into getting a refund for it, because at no point was I arguing that explosives were going to completely overtake guns as the means of killing people in war. The whole exchange I quoted revolved around the M7 defeating level 4 armor and the fact that was extremely unlikely. My response never went beyond that, and stated that in a purely "does bullet make hole in protection" context, the armor was winning. "At distance," again, was in regards to the supposed justification of the M7 being adopted for penetrating armor at ranges in excess of typical rifle engagement distances. So, yes, explosives are going to remain the best option for that.

                In short, you went into an autistic fit and wrote out an essay attacking something I didn't even say because you barged in to a conversation without fully understanding and misconstrued what was being said. Actually, you know what, that's absolutely in-line with something an English major would do so maybe you got exactly what you paid for after all.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                individual body armor has no effect whatsoever on the effectiveness of modern infantry using contemporary weapons. They cover a small portion of the body and each soldier is still extremely vulnerable to an enemy infantryman's rifle fire. And that's just a small part of the bigger picture. Other than just killing the enemy, you are fighting for position. Most combat isn't call of duty where two teams go in and only one is left standing. Most positions are abandoned on choice to preserve their force and usually only a fraction of a unit is rendered as casualties after an engagement unless something catastrophic has happened. You don't need a super expensive hyper lethal gigahomie rifle to get the enemy to frick off. You can arm an entire platoon with .22lr rifles and still make the enemy scared enough to fallback from superiority of fire and flanking maneuvers.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                even with armor you're looking at broken ribs and possible lung puncture if you're hit by 6.8×51. You might live but you'll be out of the fight for awhile.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >even with armor you're looking at broken ribs and possible lung puncture

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                ?t=511

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                lmao you are saying a fake prop dummy is better evidence than a real human being?

                You know those garand thumb tests are total bullshit, and those dummies are basically movie props correct?
                Of course not, because you are a zoomer whose entire understanding of guns comes from homosexual ass youtubers lmao.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                lmao you are saying a fake prop dummy is better evidence than a real human being?

                You know those garand thumb tests are total bullshit, and those dummies are basically movie props correct?
                Of course not, because you are a zoomer whose entire understanding of guns comes from homosexual ass youtubers lmao.

                ngl garandqueer is the biggest source of misinformation about firearms out there now.
                the guy is completely fricking ignorant about wound ballistics, regularly saying the most moronic shit imaginable that sounds like it came straight off of a forum discussion. And of course he posts these misleading worthless dummy tests and presents it as fact meaning he's either clueless himself or he's purposely presenting dogshit information because it gets clicks.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                lmao you are saying a fake prop dummy is better evidence than a real human being?

                You know those garand thumb tests are total bullshit, and those dummies are basically movie props correct?
                Of course not, because you are a zoomer whose entire understanding of guns comes from homosexual ass youtubers lmao.

                A bullet putting two inches of armor into your chest isn't going to cause any damage. You're both moronic.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're welcome to watch the provided video where a living breathing man is shot in real time with a .308 point blank and describes the feeling as nothing more than a punch.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Made by the same people that created faulty vests and got shut down. Super trustworthy and not at all a publicity stunt. I wouldn't doubt they were using half loads in this video especially compared to what I've seen 308 do to other level 4 vests.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah those half loads that are well known for cycling the action of a FAL without issue.
                And the vests you were talking about were soft armor, not plates as shown.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >video literally starts out telling you not to believe whatever you see.
                >believes video

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's telling you not to believe movies, you know entertainment? Things that aren't real? Sort of like those garandthumb dummy tests lmao.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Relying on BFD to induce casualties is laughably moronic.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ditch the AR style charging handle, it is the worst place for a charging handle. Keep the side charging

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      As usual, bean counters think it’s amazing

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >russian and chinese soldiers wear body armor
      bruh

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you aren't penning level IV plates with this at over 1k meters lol, lmao even.

      Is the muzzle velocity and SAMMI spec impressive? yes

      is the ergonomics impressive? kinda

      Is it gonna be a piece of shit because of nu-Sig? you bet your fricking ass.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Pepperidge farm remembers all those 11Bs and 0311s caught out in the open by PKM fire, miles away from the platoon's 240B/Gs. This one is going to let us win Afghanistan, boys.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Every time I see slides from the Schatz PowerPoint I get reminded how assfrickingly moronic military procurement can get

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    depends, if you are trying to assault the US Treasury, then yes

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Has the dust settled yet? IMO the dust will only be settled when it gets deployed somewhere and we get some AARs about it. Personally, I'm wary of them. I don't reflexively hate them like some do, but after seeing that German MCX scandal where like 1 in ten rifles had a catastrophic failure, well the XM7 is an MCX with massively higher chamber pressures; so a catastrophic failure with one of those would be even more catastrophic.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >this
    The XM7 is a grenade to the face waiting to happen. I'm more worried about the who this rifle will be utilized against, given how the government has been acting in recent years.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I'm more worried about the who this rifle will be utilized against
      I cant even imagine any scenario where the US and China have a war with infatrymen shooting each other, that would just be a naval/aerial conflict.
      The XM7 is clearly meant for shooting homophobic/racist chuds with body armor inside the US

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >SCAR 2.0
    >a good idea?

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    what is the average range of direct engagement in ukraine? Seems like anyone beyond 200 m gets droned or arty'd

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Snipers in Ukraine could still be useful.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You don't live in Ukraine you brain rotted simp

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If every grunt suddenly became an expert marksman capable of engaging targets hiding in cover out to 1000m from a cold bore, sure.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Whatever war america participates will be total domination due to these new rifles from sig

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Realistically it's just a DMR. Maybe it's an improved DMR compared to an AR10 but as a individual weapon for infantry soldiers, DMRs ain't it.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a worse DMR than an AR10, it's 2.5 MOA brand new with match ammo. M110 is 1 MOA with match ammo. The XM7 isn't a DMR in any sense, it's a modern M14.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Correct. Fricking boomers.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >it's 2.5 MOA brand new with match ammo

        i find that very hard to believe. pretty much every rifle nowadays is 1 moa with the right ammo.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Every new gun gets hyped up as 1MOA "with the right ammo" (they aren't)

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            TRUE
            nogunz zoomies actually believe forum and PrepHole posters when they say their rifles are "1MOA ALL DAY LONG IF I DO MY PART!". Cue the 3 shot groups with every 5th round arbitrarily excluded for being a """flier""".

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >pretty much every rifle nowadays is 1 moa with the right ammo.
          LMAO

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I like how it took them going on 70 years to just compromise on 6.8x51. Was it not possible around 5.56's development?

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    we haven't seen the whole picture with computer aided sighting functions and soldier integration systems
    the whole idea is computer aided firing at long ranges with armor penetration

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Can't even pen lv4 plates, that needs AP bullets, and that is already covered by existing calibers and rounds.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's just an integrated laser rangefinder with rough holdover marks that illuminate. It's neat but nothing spectacular. Hunting scopes with the same shit have been around for a long time.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >SIG now makes the pistol, MG, and AR for the military
    I just wanna know whose got stock in SIG

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >for the military
      Just the Army, the other branches are less moronic.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, it is fricking moronic.
    If they wanted a longer range cartridge (a waste, tbh) then they’d be better off just making a 16” M-4 with a 6.8 Rem.
    The scope was interesting tech but it needs to mature a bit more time to mature.

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The XM7 is the pinnacle of both preparing for the last war (Afghanistan), and government corruption (I wonder if any politicians have any history with Sig).

    >very far effective range because the Taliban would ambush with rockets and PKM's
    Completely useless in any combined arms situation, both low and high intensity. Targets at and beyond 300 meters becomes targets for tanks, snipers, mortars and artillery. All at the cost of less ammunition and increase recoil along with zero effectiveness on full auto (room/trench clearing against enemies who are ready for you and quick engagements of fleeting enemies is the domain of short controlled bursts).
    >Better armor piercing capabilities
    Literally zero issue using normal assault rifles since plates only cover a small percentage and you are not playing Escape form Tarkov irl. 5.56 ripping through your shoulder is a major fricking issue, just because it isn't hitting vital organs doesn't mean you can just ignore that.
    >suppressors
    Suppressors are best in niche circumstances, particularly in small groups who would need to make it more difficult to find where they are given shot signatures (recon patrol gone bad). In most infantry combat situations, it just adds weight. "But muh easier communication". homie even if everyone has suppressed weapons, you're still talking about entire squads to platoons firing weapons with explosions going off. Shit's still going to be loud.
    >super duper aimbot scope
    It's a super duper heavy piece of shit that I doubt will last longer than one turnover from issued equipment from one soldier to another just to effectively do what a normal ACOG with BDC already does.

    tl;dr the XM7 is an assault rifle but does everything an assault rifle does worse than assault rifles that already exist. Would be cool as a DMR or something like a theatre wide issue rifle for pure desert fighting I guess.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      America will never entertain a shit hole warfare like that ever. I can't even imagine one country that can stand the full brunt of an American Invasion. Especially with these xm7 with the aimbot optic... Calling in fire support is 100x easier and then you got the marines compromising with the m27iar trying to make everyone a Marksmen, Army is going the real right way.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >actual nonsense, the post
        okay

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          i just wish biden wood send a detachment of rangers with these to show how deadly they are in ukraine and iseral. these rifle would end both wars in 48 hours

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >unironic foreign glowposting
            frick off

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It seems like the executives of Sig Sauer and the brass choosing the new shit are all having big gay orgies.

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes if the military uses it, it must be perfect.
    >t. /arg/ larperator cloning m4 builds used by navy seal army ranger operators as seen on the grams.

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >yet another bullpup gays makes another nu rifle bad thread

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sounds like they blew out your booty. You don't need to be a BVLLCHAD to criticize the m7 but ok

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    For the military, the taxpayer, and everyone else in this country? No, it's literally worse than the M14. The military could have adopted the M14 with polymer furniture and it would have been a better choice. Hell, we already have that, it's called the MK14 and it's already being issued. We also have AR but in battle rifle caliber, like the SR-25 and M110. Again, both are already in service and outperform the XM5 in every way.
    For Sig and the people they bribed? Yes, in the same sense that Bobby Kotick had a lot of good ideas for himself right up to the end of his career. Frick everything up for everyone else and fly off with a pair of golden wings into the sunset as everything burns behind you, the best possible outcome for parasites.
    I'd rather everyone in America including me have tapeworms than have us adopt the XM5, those are easier to remove than Siggers and others like them.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If I keep calling it the m14 it'll make sense

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I know Siggers have reading difficulties, so I'll tell you that I've said it's literally worse than the M14. If we just re-adopted the M14, it would be better than this.
        And to demonstrate that I'm not exaggerating
        >holds the same number of bullets than an M14, in a larger magazine
        >a soldier can carry less ammo for it than he can for an M14
        >the bullet is less powerful than .308
        >the gun cannot actually be suppressed, the suppressor makes it not blow the operator's eardrums out on the first shot
        >the gun itself is heavier than the M14
        Need I go on? The AR platform and 5.56 is superior for the role that the brass want this thing for. The Garand action and .308 is also superior for the role the brass want this thing for. The gun doesn't even fulfill it's intended role because it can't penetrate body armor.
        The XM5 is a useless gun for useless people, and this blatant display of corruption makes our country weak.

        So if Sig is actually bribing everyone, why didn't the Sig optic win?

        It's one thing to hobble your armed forces, it's another to blind them while you're at it.
        Regardless, the fact that the Sig P320 was adopted should prove my point all the more. You know, the handgun that does everything worse than the M9, NDs in the holster and when dropped (something even budget revolvers from 100 years ago don't do), and is now randomly snapping in half. That Sig P320.
        Accusing members of the government and military of being corrupt and taking bribes is me giving them the benefit of the doubt. If money never changed hands, then that means they're actually completely fricking moronic. To be honest I'm not quite sure which one is worse, but morons of that caliber surely can't attain that sort of position or partake in the sorts of global politics we currently are, so that's why I say they're corrupt, because I still have a tiny sliver of hope that the human species isn't fricking devolving back into apes.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          We get it anon you're moronic and have zero understanding of what you talk about. You can blame siggers all you want but at the end of the day you're still wrong.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      So if Sig is actually bribing everyone, why didn't the Sig optic win?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Sig showed up with a basic ass lpvo that got beat by some chink vortex optic but hey atleast they got the army to buy it for the .308 hk417

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >chink optics
          >chink rifles
          >nuSig
          Big Army is actually moronic

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They need something like this with better mag placement.

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