Now that the dust has settled..

Now that the dust has settled..

Was Wagner actually effective and better than the army, or were they just a means of emptying out the prisons?

also, prighozin memes are appreciated

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    both, but only because they did unironic human wave attacks and had their entire organization set up to do so, with the russian army preventing the ukrainians from punishing this extreme moronation.

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    A palworld thread died for this

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Prigojin pussying out before reaching Moscow will always be one of the biggest disappointments and "what if?" of this war

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It sucks when the most interesting characters end up dying.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        ...huh?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Nta, but I think it's saying the Wagner March to Moscow was similar to the capital hill thing. I don't get why that's supposed to be funny or why the comparison is being made because it seems like a stretch to me.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Now you know how it feels to have a stroke.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I can’t find the Amogú, this has to be edited.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The only thing interesting about Prygozhin is how the spam from his troll farms receded to like a third after he died.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Especially when you consider his tanks would have faced some Rosgvardiya dudes with riot shields, 2-3 older BTR the few cops that forgot to call in sick for the day

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I tried listing all of the hardcore loyalist units based in and around Moscow and my post got too long. There was no chance to roll Moscow. The plan was toe get the Russian Army to defeat and cause a crisis to where Putin had to make amends or start a civil war with his sof, airborne, Intel, and Air Force units.

        It effectively would've caused a complete loss of all gains made in Ukraine and possibly Crimea which is why none of the army went along with it imo.

        >They're all in Ukraine
        Incorrect. Just sof and Intel spooks alone outnumbered Wagner to say nothing of everything else that could've been called in.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It would still have been a better outcome for Prigozhin than pussying out and then getting his plane shot out of the sky two months later.

          The Beer Hall Putsch was pretty much doomed from its conception but that didn't faze Hitler from going all the way and giving it his best shot. It paid off in the long run too because it elevated him from some "literally who" moron shouting schizo nonsense in a beer hall to a genuine leader and hero standing up to a corrupt and illegitimate government in the eyes of millions of Germans.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Posts like this remind me how stupid the average K poster is

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      They had the cool red Zs on the tanks and everything. I was so fricking blueballed.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I was hoping we'd see more of the "punished ziggers"

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Everyone loves a good splinter faction.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The almost coup was the most exciting shit thats happened in a while. Imagine if he went through with it. Uncle Priggy would still be alive
      Also, please poast more red Z content. So fricking kino

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >Also, please poast more red Z content. So fricking kino
        I want to go back...

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >"what if?"
      The HOI6 mods will be legendary.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      the Ned Stark beheading of our time

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      The almost coup was the most exciting shit thats happened in a while. Imagine if he went through with it. Uncle Priggy would still be alive
      Also, please poast more red Z content. So fricking kino

      It wasn't coup attempt
      All pringles wanted was change of military leadership

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        surely even he knew that all he'd get was being killed for trying to use force against putin to get what he wanted

        shoulda gone the whole distance

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Biggest blueball. I am STILL mad

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    They had a core of hardcore profesional soldiers and a lot of new extra mass of guys from prison. They proved more effective than the regular army and if it wasn't for the infighting with the MoD they would be extremely effective.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >80% losses
    >effective

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >ESL doesn't know the difference between effective and efficient
      if you need to kill a stationary pigeon, an 18in shell from Yamato will be effective. even if it's not efficient.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I Failed My Putsch and Now I'm Leading a Band of Mercernaries Again to Defeat the Demon King in Another World!

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    they were more effective at dying than normal vatniks

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    They had experienced leadership that had been conducting operations around the world against third world adversaries.
    But in Ukraine the Kremlin was calling the shots more than wagner, so they used decent fighters in stupid ways, much like how russia killed most of thier best soldiers in the initial attack waves.
    Wagner still had some decent fighters after russia sacrificed most of thier own earlier, so russia basicly took over direct control of wagner, then forced it to do stupid stuff, likely removing any wagner leadership that tried to resist the stupidity.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Basicly wagner was competent, so the Kremlin forced itself into a position to directly control them, then got them killed as foolishly as they got the first waves of well equiped Russian soldiers killed.
      After acting stupid awhile both the russian army and wagner end up low on quality soldiers and then have to make due with subpar replacements. Wagner as a pmc was also setup for light infantry tactics that work better with a lack of supply lines than the regular army which depends on more constant supplies for heavy equipment.

      Uncle Pringles (I miss him RIP) downright said months from his death that Wagner took 20k KIA just in Bakhmut and that was also only Wagner's casualties. So you tell me.

      It's pretty fricked up how many different "factions" with the Russians have been more or less wiped out in succession. The VDV, separatists, Volunteer paramilitary units, Kadyrov Mafia goons, National Guard, Sea Infantry, Gazprom mercs now Wagner. They were either wiped out, or hit hard enough they ran off. It's now just mobiks, mobik units and more mobik units. That and Storm-Z.

      Like the men in this picture, they're most likely all dead by now.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The 20k KIA in Bakhmut is big, but it’d be wrong to extrapolate that figure across the entire front since Bakhmut was (and probably remains until the dust settles over Avdiivka) the largest battle of the war. 2nd largest being battle for Mariupol.

        Also worth noting that Prig claimed a higher death toll for the Ukrainians. It’s interesting that depending on which side you’re on he’s either lying about one or the other but never both.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I mean, if there is one guy who would know the casualties of Wagner it would have been Priggo, less so the casualties of the Ukrainians. Unlike with his own army I don't even know how he would get information about Ukrainian casualties. From who, the Russian Ministry of Defense that for most of its existance denied Wagner even existed?

          And yeah I wouldn't say it was for the entire front, Wagner easily took the most casualties for the Russians in Bakhmut.

          And why do you consider Mariupol the biggest battle? It was mostly just combat around the Azov industrial plant. Is it just because of length?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Mariupol’s the second biggest battle because of force concentration and stakes. Those are the two things that make a battle decisively “big” imo since really it’s all arbitrary.

            Mariupol was a big city. Ukraine’s second largest port. Huge industrial centre. Losing it meant losing access to the Azov Sea and it was the final step in definitively establishing the land border to Crimea. There was also a massive force concentration on Russia’s side, and alleged failed attempts at a breakout from Ukraine in the north.
            Mariupol also holds a lot of symbolism for obvious reasons with the Azov Brigade and because it was recaptured from the rebels way back during the Donbas War.

            Bakhmut topped Mariupol as soon as Prig took it nuclear and dumped bodies on it.
            As for Prig’s knowledge of Wagner casualties I don’t doubt it, but I also don’t doubt that he’d overstate the toll taken by Wagner to drive home his demands for more weapons, better leadership in the Russian MoD etc.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I mean, at that point he dropped the Wagner KIA number he wasn't demanding weapons anymore, it was after the coup or just before it or during it.

              But wasn't the Ukrainian troop concentration in Mariupol just the troops around the Azovstal? Doesn't seem that big.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                oh no look at his pigeon toes how precious

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The sky is purple with pink spots and the planet orbits the Sun. One of these is true, one of these is false. If your argument is
          >We should totally ignore him! He said the sky is purple with pink spots! That means literally everything he says is false!
          It is possible to both tell the truth about one thing and lie about another. It is possible to say you took 50k casualties and it to be true and then say the other side took 500,000. Ancient historians are renowned for doing this. Beat an army of 10,000 with your army of 10,000? Say you lost 4,000 (true) but say the army you faced was 30,000 strong (false). This makes your side look a lot better than the other side. Anybody calls you on it?
          >Well the maelstrom and fog of war!
          Get heavily beaten when you have 10,000 and they have 10,000? Well they totally outnumbered you, but you killed 20,000 and lost 4,000. The 4,000 is true, the 20,000 killed is not. Nobody can question you. Literally one of the first things you learn in history is that sources - even primary sources - are biased. What you're suppose to do is, lets say Romans fought Carthage. You look at what the Romans said, then what the Carthaginians said. Then you try to extrapolate based on other sources (i.e, how many soldiers on average for campaigns of X size at Y distance at Z year) and try to work out roughly what the actual numbers were. Even modern historians do this, it's just easier for people to check.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Good point. Hadn’t really thought of the comparison to ancient sources.
            Although wouldn’t Prig have wanted to sew a narrative of clutching victory from the jaws of defeat? His whole bid to oust Shoigu and become king of the MoD was to demonstrate that the war could only be won with him at the helm.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Prig saying he lost a lot of men could be an attempt to guilt people into giving him more stuff. Remember, at the start of the war, Wagner got supply priority. More shells, more ammo, more artillery support, more air support, more technical support and rations and stuff. They made progress - slow as it might be - but progress nonetheless. Then Russia ran into supply issues and had to start dealing out the supplies more evenly to prevent front collapses. This pissed off Priggy who was under contract to capture Bakhmut for his big bonus and to be able to leave. Once he'd captured it, he could frick off to Africa. The rest of the Russian military hated him, his
              >They're all dead because of lack of shells!
              Was to incite Russian contract soldiers with the desire for revenge... forgetting that they had been deprived of shells right at the start when there were supplies in large amounts. So when Priggy did the Priggy Heresy he expected Russian soldiers to rise up and assist him. It didn't happen. So he bailed, believing he'd be allowed to live. So it is possible Priggy lied to try and drum up support
              >Oh no how can you let these people die!
              Forgetting he was using convicts and other undesirables that nobody cared about. On the other hand, it is also possible that he had lost that many and he was trying to show how important that Wagner was to get the lion's share of the supplies by stating that things would be going better and faster if he got that stuff over other units.

              Difficult to say.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        VDV is still being genocided in Kherson
        also Rusich was complaining about people defecting to RDK cause Chechen BVLLs were cucking them lol

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        VDV and marine troops are still seen daily across the entire front, the separatists make up an entire army corps.

        Are you people like 8 year old girls trying to wrap your head around this war?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I think he’s saying that they suffered massive casualties and none of the original career soldiers remain, not that they don’t exist.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Is this dude using an RPK as an DMR like a MK12?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          That's not an RPK, it's just an AK74M with a can.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        I wonder if there are any spetznas still around

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Yes, but Russia is using the 14th Spetsnaz Brigade as almost line infantry

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Basicly wagner was competent, so the Kremlin forced itself into a position to directly control them, then got them killed as foolishly as they got the first waves of well equiped Russian soldiers killed.
      After acting stupid awhile both the russian army and wagner end up low on quality soldiers and then have to make due with subpar replacements. Wagner as a pmc was also setup for light infantry tactics that work better with a lack of supply lines than the regular army which depends on more constant supplies for heavy equipment.

      It's strange that you're obviously posting twice. btw you're just guessing and your guess is wrong. The Russian MoD never controlled Wagner and the MoD's attempts to do so are what triggered the insurrection.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >They had experienced leadership that had been conducting operations around the world against third world adversaries.
      They had experienced wienersuckers with a long history of murdering civilians and not much else. I don't see how this revisionism serves any purpose.

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Basicly wagner was competent, so the Kremlin forced itself into a position to directly control them, then got them killed as foolishly as they got the first waves of well equiped Russian soldiers killed.
    After acting stupid awhile both the russian army and wagner end up low on quality soldiers and then have to make due with subpar replacements. Wagner as a pmc was also setup for light infantry tactics that work better with a lack of supply lines than the regular army which depends on more constant supplies for heavy equipment.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Nope. Wagner found a super lucrative business in Africa which attracted the big oligarchs who Woody supported via MoD policy. Prigo tried to hang on to the business and reportedly did everything in his power to get in the way of the MoD trying to set up the market for the other oligarchs’ merc groups.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Wagner was effective as disposable troops in the Russian doctrine of using disposable troops to fix enemy positions while regular troops bombard and move in when the enemy retreats. It’s an effective one-two punch system against a lightly mechanized force like the UA. So, Wagner was more-or-less as effective as MoD troops but neither would have been as effective without the other.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Wagner was ineffective in Ukraine but is usually effective in Africa and sometimes in the middle-east.

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The only thing that made Wagner a threat was the fact they were casualty adverse but that also caused their end.

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    There were definitely different levels to it but by and large before they did the prison meatwave tactics almost all of them were from the "professional" circuit of the Russian Army

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The group wasn't 'better' than the actual army but they were very useful. But since prigo got killed, it is fun to imagine how he would lead the country if he had a more dominant presence in the upper echelons.

    Also, why would russia want to empty out their prisons beyond simply having more meat to send to the grinder?

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Yes. They took the most amount of ground while wasting the least amount of soldiers and inflicted the most casualties on ukies. Granted that's VERY relative here. Goes to show just how much bark Puccia actually is.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      20k men is wasting the least amount of soldiers?

      >Was Wagner actually effective and better than the army, or were they just a means of emptying out the prisons?
      Partially both. They have a small professional core that's actually effective, but their "effectiveness" in later stages basically happened by using two components: meat waves from prisoners and siphoning off the ammo from the army, i.e. the other parts of the army had to suck dick without shells so that gayner would have more of them.

      The main force Wagner was also hit hard by the war since this was a lot more extreme than their past deployments. The whole reason they had to recruit prisoners was because of that.

      VDV is still being genocided in Kherson
      also Rusich was complaining about people defecting to RDK cause Chechen BVLLs were cucking them lol

      Cucking them how?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >20k men is wasting the least amount of soldiers?
        you have to remember - they weren't soldiers, just contractors and prisoners

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        20k men is not 20k soldiers buddy

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I'm actually curious what you mean by this, is this just some homosexual semantics argument about mercenaries recruited from prison despite them being just Wagner mercs with shittier training and worse equipment or does it have some substance?

          You understand that artillery, bombs, mortars and missiles don't discriminate between ex-convict mercenaries and normal mercenaries correct?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            There is a certain amount of investment that goes into the average soldier.
            a convict you are just using for a meatwave costs a fraction.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              You know they even gave a training course just for the convicts right? Or that when Priggo said they had 20k KIA they didn't mean "just" the convicts, whch from Wagner's pespective and data were just Wagner mercs with lower budget gear and training.

              Again, drones, artillery, bombs, missiles and morters don't discriminate between ex-convict mercs and main force Wagner. This ex-VDV officer here in the picture was kicked out for drug abuse and recruited by Wagner. Rejects from the RU military and intelligence were always one of the main sources of mercenaries for Wagner.

              He died in Kherson in 2023.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        chechens are the ones that lead blocking detachments and security forces, mariupol and other occupied territories are also getting CHINKED
        also a while ago Rusich said they'd respect RDK dead because they share beliefs
        RDK as a whole is weird, they have a bunch of ex-Wagners since Prigo's prank and they are appealing to disillusioned Russian nationalists, I wonder how tight the Ukie leash is

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Was Wagner actually effective and better than the army, or were they just a means of emptying out the prisons?
    Partially both. They have a small professional core that's actually effective, but their "effectiveness" in later stages basically happened by using two components: meat waves from prisoners and siphoning off the ammo from the army, i.e. the other parts of the army had to suck dick without shells so that gayner would have more of them.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Was Wagner actually effective
    of course not they were mostly even more expendable meat than the endless mobik hordes

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It was effective until pringos two beloved soldiers passed. Just one was holding off waves of Armor and infantry, sadly he died of covid.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Did Wagner have uniforms registered in Geneva or were they just a bunch of thugs?

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Well, they spent like what - 50-60k mercs and prisoners in a timeframe of 6+ months to take 70k population town
    You can consider it as effective in comparison to regular army results (take over 20person village in couple months), but then you look at where exactly Bakhmut was situated and how many there are towns and cities as big, bigger and way bigger than that, and realize it would take like 30 more years and 10 more millions people to take over the whole ukraine moving like that.
    Which just isnt sustainable for russia

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Priga said it was 20k and that's huge number on its own. I believe that even 20k is inflate fake number, because he want to accuse Gerasimov/Shoigu and start mutiny, that's was his plane. I think 10k max on both sides is much realistic number and 60k is just pure journalist bullshit

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The cream of Wagner all fricked off to Africa after seeing the mass waves. Wagner has essentially fragmented into the Wagner networks in Africa who all sort of work together and then Wagner Russia which is apparently being run by Prigozins son but nobody is really sure. A lot of smaller merc groups in Russia have all been competing to hire ex-Wagner people.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Japanese tv Prig speech

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Poor little pidor trying to prop up his tardclown after he got bumped off. What's next, General Armageddon threads?
    Eat shit and die, subhuman. All fricking katsaps are garbage.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      schizoposting is boring

  25. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I miss this deranged madman like you wouldn't believe.

  26. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Thank you Wagner

  27. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    The emptying of Russian prisons for a low cost is genius. Need to have more of that. US needs to take notes

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