Now that the ATF has defined stocks as having shoulderable surface area.

Now that the ATF has defined stocks as having shoulderable surface area. If you made a spike that came to a point and put it on the back, thereby eliminating shoulderable surface area, it would no longer be a stock right?

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Everything is shoulderable if you aren't a pussy.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    and then you could make a bunch of them in a diamond pattern...

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Oh for fuck's sake, they changed the rules AGAIN?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's in the brace rule. Have you not been on for a few days or something?

      When deciding if a brace is a stock, if there is any shoulderable surface area it's a stock.
      If it the rifle has an optic with a limited eye relief that could imply shouldering is required, it's a rifle.
      If there is any promotional material that shows the factory firearm or brace being shouldered, then it is a stock.
      If the weight of the gun is such that 2 hands would be required than it is a rifle.
      etc....

      The question in the OP is about shoulderable surface area. If you eliminate rearmost surface through use of spikes, is a stock no longer a stock? If so, how many spikes can you use?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not American, used to follow your laws just to keep an idea but ever since the war started, I've barely seen a thread about it
        >When deciding if a brace is a stock, if there is any shoulderable surface area it's a stock
        That's fucking retarded, you can shoulder a bare fucking buffer tube, that doesn't make it into a stock
        >If the weight of the gun is such that 2 hands would be required than it is a rifle
        Required by whom? There are people who could probably one-hand a MMG without issues and there are people who can barely hold onto a pencil one-handed.
        Is it judged on the owner specifically? What if I could hold onto the gun previously but, for whatever reason, no longer can? Am I not allowed to keep the gun?
        I know that the ATgays are retarded, but are they actively TRYING to get raped in court?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >you can shoulder a bare fucking buffer tube,
          It used to not count because it was there exclusively as part of the action needed for the gun to function. It's actually not clear now that they wont' consider a buffer tube a stock but the length of pull of too short and it's up too high on the gun. You'd have to have mile tall sights to shoulder one and it's be uncomfortable.

          The rest of the rules are left intentionally vague with the specific purpose of letting the ATF decide on a case by case basis, subjectively. This really does violate the 14th amendment equal protection clause which outlaws selective enforcement. The ATF does not care.

          The history of it something like:
          > back in the day Chicago gangsters could cut down rifles and conceal them under their trench coats.
          >Let's ban short barrel rifles to stop this.
          >Now people want short barrel rifles.
          >Hey can we put a foam brace on the guns to wrap around our wrist.
          >ATF, "Sure go ahead".
          >Companies continue to push the limit until the braces aren't even pretending not to be stocks anymore.
          >ATF, okay enough is enough. Braces are illegal now but we can't just make them illegal now because of rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act.
          >ATF decides to outlaw them de facto with a bunch of subjective rules letting them enforce it on a case by case basis.
          Like many, I see this getting struck down in court.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >It's actually not clear now that they wont' consider a buffer tube a stock
            So could someone just start selling buffer tubes shaped like stocks, with really long springs inside? Maybe place a leaf spring in the thing that contacts your shoulder and call it a proprietary buffer technology to justify it as functional?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Buffer tube extensions are called out specifically as not allowed in the new ruling.

              You could use a rifle length buffer tube I suppose.

              [...]
              >2 hands would be required
              This also reminds me, does holding a gun with two hands make it a rifle? Doesn't this theoretically cover all handguns as well, given modern shooting technique?

              This is the one thing that always bothered me about AR pistols without braces. I mean technically they should be required to have a brace to be a pistol IMO.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            You fucking stupid moron thats fuddlore and patently false for fucks sake watch fuddbusters videos on the fucking matter you shit flinging big mouthed idiot theres literally only two of them fuck.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Go watch muh youtube expert. I heard some guy on youtube say and now I'm smarter than everybody.
              No

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            A large part of the history that is ignored is handguns were originally going to be NFA items and that was a main driving force among some other firearm types. When it was passed by Congress the version had been cut down to just what it is today. Remember that, they wanted to NFA handguns.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >you can shoulder a bare fucking buffer tube,
        It used to not count because it was there exclusively as part of the action needed for the gun to function. It's actually not clear now that they wont' consider a buffer tube a stock but the length of pull of too short and it's up too high on the gun. You'd have to have mile tall sights to shoulder one and it's be uncomfortable.

        The rest of the rules are left intentionally vague with the specific purpose of letting the ATF decide on a case by case basis, subjectively. This really does violate the 14th amendment equal protection clause which outlaws selective enforcement. The ATF does not care.

        The history of it something like:
        > back in the day Chicago gangsters could cut down rifles and conceal them under their trench coats.
        >Let's ban short barrel rifles to stop this.
        >Now people want short barrel rifles.
        >Hey can we put a foam brace on the guns to wrap around our wrist.
        >ATF, "Sure go ahead".
        >Companies continue to push the limit until the braces aren't even pretending not to be stocks anymore.
        >ATF, okay enough is enough. Braces are illegal now but we can't just make them illegal now because of rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act.
        >ATF decides to outlaw them de facto with a bunch of subjective rules letting them enforce it on a case by case basis.
        Like many, I see this getting struck down in court.

        >2 hands would be required
        This also reminds me, does holding a gun with two hands make it a rifle? Doesn't this theoretically cover all handguns as well, given modern shooting technique?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I bet soon there will be "third arm" braces like the smart rig from Aliens purely to get past that weight requirement because you'll only need one hand to hold it

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Unironically yes, the ATF has specified that pistols must be designed and intended to be fired one handed per the NFA. End user use constitutes redesigning the firearm if it runs counter to that. Cherry on top as you've noticed is that the ATF themselves of course teach their agents to shoot two handed, by their own legal declaration they are admitting to being felons themselves.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            pfft, the ATF doesn't have any rules against themselves having full auto or SBR's. You think whatever their version of a SWAT team is worries about creating an SBR? Those rules are for you anon, not them.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            So good are feds at radicalizing civilians that I passionately hate them without ever having stepped foot in America

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              you sound like you'd make a good american

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It’s best to not give a shit what that worthless agency says or thinks and just work on bribing and blackmailing our equally worthless representatives enough to shutter their sorry asses for good.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Whats funny about this is that nobody was doing any of this before it became a thing.
    >I'll cut the barrel down and strap it to my arm with a belt
    Never happened.
    But once the ATF and legislations started nitpicking certain features, they found a way to charge you more money on both ends and you're paying for it.
    >pandemic of suppressor use deaths
    Nope.
    >ban them or charge $200
    FUCK YOU GOVERNMENT TAKE MY MONEY
    >no rifles under 16"
    ITS A PISTOL NOW
    >SBR
    FUCK YOU GOVERNMENT, TAKE MY MONEY

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      do something about it then, dweeb

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm not gonna buy a snub nose and pay for permission out of spite.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Y'all realise no one's gonna know or care if you make an SBR right?

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    does a bare buffer tube count as shoulderable surface area?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Dude just sew in extra padding on the shoulder of a shirt, then hold the buffer tube spike against it. You could even make some meme ass shoulder holster style setup with that padding to work on any shirt, anything to make the atf seethe I guess.
    Or just put a real stock on it and stop caring.

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