It's basically one more major action before terminal decline, isn't it? Break back into Azov coastline and Crimea starts to collapse. After tha it's probably messy and painful mopping up, but still mopping up.
The missile strikes are unironically for domestic political purposes, the hardliners inside Russia are one of the few camps the Kremlin tolerates to be openly political and they are overall livid about the way the war is going. People act as though Russia was a totalitarian state before the war but the bulk of the population is made up of apolitical people who more closely resemble territorial inhabitants than actual citizens of a state, roughly a quarter of the population is made up nationalist revanchists who clamor for this war and maybe a small section but comparable was made up of "liberal" capitalists with eyes towards a Westernization of the economy. As the war spun up the oligarchs were brought to heel, the intelligence and military services were made to publicly sign on to the war in that awkward as frick prerecorded dress-down by Putin, and harsh new media control laws went into effect. The nationalist wing has been allowed to basically fill the vacuum where more normal public discourse was happening with the intent to drum up support for the war but as things have stalled out and turned into a disaster there is real concern that they are beginning to criticize and infight and you even see Wagner and Kadyrov trying to offer themselves as parallel command structures in direct competition with the Kremlin's military.
If Russia can't achieve operational success on the ground to appease the nationalist/militant camps it can at least publicly and visibly brutalize the civilians to give them some form of red meat and hopefully keep them on board. This is always what happens in these moronic shit hole states that refuse to structure their government around institutions instead of people, the leaders are in control until suddenly they aren't and then there are no guard rails.
This is a good analysis, probably wasted on /k/. Putin is NOT a king. He has a small if very wealthy (+ Wagner) power base. He very much needs to form partnerships with others such as the hardliners to fill in gaps exposing his power.
Russia didnt do anything like this in the chechen war, they sieged Grozny with ground forces and captured it by storm. They didnt throw missiles at it while the fighting was bogged down hundreds of miles away
They didint have to because it was in arty range.
This is just them trying to grozny the entirety of ukraine, but somebody should show them a map with some sort of a scale that shows just how many munitions you would need to level a large city with cruise missiles alone
Pro tip: even the great based satan america does not have nearly enough of them in inventory
1 year ago
Anonymous
My point is that the strategy is completley different. They didnt level Grozny to make the chechens give up due to lack of amenities, they did it as part of a successful attempt to capture the city by force.
Attacking infrastructure doesnt work unless you are so overwhelmingly powerful that you can casually suppress an entire country without meaningful loss to yourself like the US did to serbia
>Tell me when this has ever worked
In Serbia during kosovo war.
Which actually explains why serbs are cheering when russkies bomb ukraine.
Their status as sole country that was buckbroken from the air alone burns a hole in their shriveled black souls, and they desperately want at least one country they could point at and say: >but-but-but what about them??? They surrendered to bombs as well!
>ukraine people will riot and demand a peace treaty
Ukraine people will fricking murder the ones who keeps blowing up their shit. Its better to humiliate your enemy than be humiliated by your enemy.
When enough Russian soldiers are killed, the Ukies will be close enough to start bombing the living frick out Russia proper, and then we'll see how the Moskals in Moscow and St. Petersburg like being with power, water, baths, heat, toilets, computers, phones, tvs, video games, food, hope, dignity.
(Don't worry, I know that all the moskals in the rest of the country don't have any of those things anyway.)
>Waste assets on civies instead of military targets >Achieve nothing >Embolden and embitter defenders >Westerners get more supportive of Ukraine
Russians are fricked tbh. They will be like Germans in 1950 when this is over. Probably worse, as at least the Germans had their government changed. Russians will have to love with Putin's spectre for decades to come.
>Probably worse, as at least the Germans had their government changed. Russians will have to love with Putin's spectre for decades to come.
Russia also doesn't hold the strategic value that Germany and Japan did for containing the USSR; europe and the USA have no reason to waste money on building their economy instead of just leaving them to rot (without the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Russian assets the civilized world has already seized and will use to rebuild Ukraine and compensate those affected)
https://i.imgur.com/hyJhq31.png
America did this to Japan's capital with hundreds of heavy bombers carpet bombing it for months, and that still didn't end the war.
That was also combined with decisive destruction of their military and industry, whereas Ukraine has largely been holding its own and gets much (if not most) of its materiel supplied from abroad
Since everything the Russians do or say is projection does this mean that the quickest way to end the war is to cut off utilities for Moscow and St. Petersburg
>ukraine people will riot and demand a peace treaty
Wtf, is this why they are destroying the infrastructure? Are Russians completely moronic? It will take years of constant bombardment (a lot more than right now, current levels of missile strikes are pathetic) to wear down people.
Same anon just moronic so I gotta make a second post for my unhinged thought process.
Every single fricking strike only incentivises the Ukrainian people to never accept a peace treaty as many will lose friends and family either directly or indirectly. Every politician that even thinks about giving up or trying to make the case for peace will have to justify to the public why they're OK with the ongoing atrocities and rewarding an aggressor state which they'll likely be lynched for. You make peace harder to achieve through these infantile strikes that do nothing to reverse the military situation.
I know this is a joke and all but if African nations and so on don't ape out because of this, why would Ukraine? You might have a point if Ukraine was a fully Westernised nation for the last half a millennia or something.
> but if African nations and so on don't ape out because of this, why would Ukraine? > You might have a point if Ukraine was a fully Westernised nation for the last half a millennia or something.
It wasnt, but ukrainians in larger cities are kinda used to modern comforts of having electricity and internet 24/7, running water and flushing toilet, heating at home and working public transport, food in the nearby store which you dont have to stand in 4 hour line for.
Said comforts arent top-notch by western standard but they exist and were stable, and when stability is disrupted its really uncomfortable(or unmanagable if for example central heating goes down and its -10 outside).
Group hardship it's easier to endure with a community and an enemy to attribute it to.
An existential war drives a community together and gives them a concrete enemy responsible. They might get upset, but it won't make them want to negotiate with Russia.
They know who to blame, the same vatniks who murdered millions of their fellows within living memory.
Noobs tend to think of conflicts in isolation so here's an example they may understand. The US South isn't over the Squabble Between the States and no one living experienced that.
My theory is this is in large part a way to placate domestic audiences postwar. >Yes, we lost, but we killed and raped many khohol children, oinkraine will never recover, therefore we win*~~*~~
Lira, the King Russian Shill, at least the one who still bothers to hope this will all work out has already said that Russia has won, even if Russia is kicked to 2013 borders. Why? Because 'it'll cost trillions to repair Ukraine' (that's a number he made up, estimates have said $400bn atm). Why is this a win for Russia? Well it means the West is fractured from all the spending, it is fractured from the in-fighting on who supported Ukraine the most, it is fricked due to inflation and goods prices, it is fricked because it 'wasted' its weapons on Ukraine and it is fricked because it will have to spend trillions to prop up Ukraine for half a century minimum.
They honestly believe that is a win for Russia, that this is ending the power of the Anglo domination world. Hell, even Putin has said that.
>when you have 7 gorillian cruise missiles, denuclearize yourself instead of using them
-Sun Tzu
You are dumb
1 year ago
Anonymous
Anon you cannot simultaneously say stockpiles are fine and Russia has plenty of missiles, and also accept that Russia is dearming their nukes to throw rocks at Ukraine.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>hurr durr what are strategic missiles
tourists out
1 year ago
Anonymous
RUSSIS IS TAKING THE NUKES OUT OF THEIR NUKES
TO THROW ROCKS
RUSSIA IS TAKING MISSILES THAT CONTAIN NUKES AND FILLING THEM WITH ROCKS INSTEAD
TO THROW ROCKS AT UKRAINE
1 year ago
Anonymous
False. Russia has no nukes trannoid.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>troony doesn't understand the difference between tactical and strategic nuclear weapons
Sigh
1 year ago
Anonymous
You are ok with a lil nuclear disarmament?
To throw rocks?
1 year ago
Anonymous
To be fair vatnik tac nukes (aka those that they put on iskanders or kh-102's) yields are on the order of american or french strategic warheads
1 year ago
Anonymous
To be fair vatnik tac nukes (aka those that they put on iskanders or kh-102's) yields are on the order of american or french strategic warheads
There is no such thing as a 'tactical nuke' the only thing that exists are nuclear weapons with lower yields AND the 'use of them'. It is, however, assumed by people who fricking matter (including US Defence Secretaries) that 'any use of a nuclear weapon is strategic, regardless of the target'. In short, even if you use a nuclear weapon to change the outcome of a battle (say blowing up a carrier fleet or destroying 500 tanks in a valley or something) then it immediately becomes strategic because that's the nature of nukes. Therefore the distinct between 'tactical and strategic nuclear weapons' does not exist. It is essentially cope for nations to go >We only dropped an ickle nuke, just a tiney weeny one, just a wittle nukie wookie, a little bit of light nuclear fire, a small bit of trolling :^)
Into thinking that such an act would be responded with >Well that's OK lads, they only dropped a 10 mega ton nuke on the Pacific Carrier Fleet, no worries, there is no need to launch every single available nuclear weapon we have at the target right the frick now, it was only a small one 🙂
And no, don't bother citing the war games where NATO didn't nuke back or where they nuked Belarus instead. It's war games.
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's like these clowns haven't memorized the findings of PROUD PROPHET.
1 year ago
Anonymous
People forget this entire war should never be in the position of 'We might have to use nukes'.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Explain the difference between a tactical and a strategic rock.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Throwing a rock at a soldier is tactical. Throwing a rock at Putin is strategic.
1 year ago
Anonymous
Would be funny if they did the same thing with MIRV ICBMs.
1 year ago
Anonymous
>Russia launches MIRVs >NATO shits itself, launches every interceptor they have to try to avert nuclear hellfire >oops, all rocks! >NATO then launches its completely unscathed nuclear arsenal at Moscow and solves the Russian question for good
Yeah I'd certainly be laughing.
> Is to make them waste missile to shoot it down
But i thought ukrainian AA doesnt exist, and what exists only hits poland and residential buildings!
Why would russia need to launch decoys?
>troony doesn't understand the difference between tactical and strategic nuclear weapons
Sigh
>i-is only tactical missile!! >our strategic capabilities are fine! >we don't even need such lowly tactical use missiles!! >the later 250kt upgrade is strictly for tactical use!!!!!! >11.9x the Fat Man is STRICTLY UNIMPORTANT TACTICAL MISSILE IS FINE TO FILL WITH BOULDER!!!!!!!!!!~~*~~*~~*(
imagine their surprise when it didn't make an earth-shattering kaboom. they're probably frantically doing a teardown on all their nukes to find out how many nukes they actually have in their concrete inventory.
To avoid escalation, a wise strategy. Never do the emotionally appealing thing. If a teenage boy likes the idea it's terrible so one should be chained in the basement for reference in case PrepHole goes dark.
>even more things to rebuild
Does Russia even realize that they are creating investment opportunities for everyone but themselves, while paying for it?
If you have to "stockpile" missiles that implies you don't have sufficient for immediate strikes and must make or buy more. Modern wars are fought from stocks on hand.
ngl chief
this will not save russia
It's basically one more major action before terminal decline, isn't it? Break back into Azov coastline and Crimea starts to collapse. After tha it's probably messy and painful mopping up, but still mopping up.
The missile strikes are unironically for domestic political purposes, the hardliners inside Russia are one of the few camps the Kremlin tolerates to be openly political and they are overall livid about the way the war is going. People act as though Russia was a totalitarian state before the war but the bulk of the population is made up of apolitical people who more closely resemble territorial inhabitants than actual citizens of a state, roughly a quarter of the population is made up nationalist revanchists who clamor for this war and maybe a small section but comparable was made up of "liberal" capitalists with eyes towards a Westernization of the economy. As the war spun up the oligarchs were brought to heel, the intelligence and military services were made to publicly sign on to the war in that awkward as frick prerecorded dress-down by Putin, and harsh new media control laws went into effect. The nationalist wing has been allowed to basically fill the vacuum where more normal public discourse was happening with the intent to drum up support for the war but as things have stalled out and turned into a disaster there is real concern that they are beginning to criticize and infight and you even see Wagner and Kadyrov trying to offer themselves as parallel command structures in direct competition with the Kremlin's military.
If Russia can't achieve operational success on the ground to appease the nationalist/militant camps it can at least publicly and visibly brutalize the civilians to give them some form of red meat and hopefully keep them on board. This is always what happens in these moronic shit hole states that refuse to structure their government around institutions instead of people, the leaders are in control until suddenly they aren't and then there are no guard rails.
This is a good analysis, probably wasted on /k/. Putin is NOT a king. He has a small if very wealthy (+ Wagner) power base. He very much needs to form partnerships with others such as the hardliners to fill in gaps exposing his power.
>no power
>no water
>no baths
>no heat
>no toilets
>no computers
>no phones
>no tv
>no video games
ukraine people will riot and demand a peace treaty
two more weeks
Tell me when this has ever worked
2nd Chechen war.
Incorrect.
That only stopped because israelitetin bought off israeliteyrov.
Russia didnt do anything like this in the chechen war, they sieged Grozny with ground forces and captured it by storm. They didnt throw missiles at it while the fighting was bogged down hundreds of miles away
They didint have to because it was in arty range.
This is just them trying to grozny the entirety of ukraine, but somebody should show them a map with some sort of a scale that shows just how many munitions you would need to level a large city with cruise missiles alone
Pro tip: even the great based satan america does not have nearly enough of them in inventory
My point is that the strategy is completley different. They didnt level Grozny to make the chechens give up due to lack of amenities, they did it as part of a successful attempt to capture the city by force.
Attacking infrastructure doesnt work unless you are so overwhelmingly powerful that you can casually suppress an entire country without meaningful loss to yourself like the US did to serbia
>Tell me when this has ever worked
In Serbia during kosovo war.
Which actually explains why serbs are cheering when russkies bomb ukraine.
Their status as sole country that was buckbroken from the air alone burns a hole in their shriveled black souls, and they desperately want at least one country they could point at and say:
>but-but-but what about them??? They surrendered to bombs as well!
Maybe Russia really will turn Ukraine into Russia after all, at least in comparison.
>ukraine people will riot and demand a peace treaty
Ukraine people will fricking murder the ones who keeps blowing up their shit. Its better to humiliate your enemy than be humiliated by your enemy.
When enough Russian soldiers are killed, the Ukies will be close enough to start bombing the living frick out Russia proper, and then we'll see how the Moskals in Moscow and St. Petersburg like being with power, water, baths, heat, toilets, computers, phones, tvs, video games, food, hope, dignity.
(Don't worry, I know that all the moskals in the rest of the country don't have any of those things anyway.)
Yeah dude they'll demand surrender to the Russians that want to genocide them for sure.
>Waste assets on civies instead of military targets
>Achieve nothing
>Embolden and embitter defenders
>Westerners get more supportive of Ukraine
Russians are fricked tbh. They will be like Germans in 1950 when this is over. Probably worse, as at least the Germans had their government changed. Russians will have to love with Putin's spectre for decades to come.
Name one (1) instance where that worked
>Probably worse, as at least the Germans had their government changed. Russians will have to love with Putin's spectre for decades to come.
Russia also doesn't hold the strategic value that Germany and Japan did for containing the USSR; europe and the USA have no reason to waste money on building their economy instead of just leaving them to rot (without the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Russian assets the civilized world has already seized and will use to rebuild Ukraine and compensate those affected)
That was also combined with decisive destruction of their military and industry, whereas Ukraine has largely been holding its own and gets much (if not most) of its materiel supplied from abroad
Also the Japs realized they wouldn't be able to sue for peace as the soviets broke their neutrality.
They genuinely believe targeting civilian infrastructure will break the will of the Ukrainians.
Since everything the Russians do or say is projection does this mean that the quickest way to end the war is to cut off utilities for Moscow and St. Petersburg
>ukraine people will riot and demand a peace treaty
Wtf, is this why they are destroying the infrastructure? Are Russians completely moronic? It will take years of constant bombardment (a lot more than right now, current levels of missile strikes are pathetic) to wear down people.
America did this to Japan's capital with hundreds of heavy bombers carpet bombing it for months, and that still didn't end the war.
Nice fanfic, but yea keep using your most valuable munitions on non military target and see how that works out.
Kek, you can't learn from history if you don't understand history.
History shows that people will accept their genocide if it means temporarily living a decent lifestyle.
Same anon just moronic so I gotta make a second post for my unhinged thought process.
Every single fricking strike only incentivises the Ukrainian people to never accept a peace treaty as many will lose friends and family either directly or indirectly. Every politician that even thinks about giving up or trying to make the case for peace will have to justify to the public why they're OK with the ongoing atrocities and rewarding an aggressor state which they'll likely be lynched for. You make peace harder to achieve through these infantile strikes that do nothing to reverse the military situation.
Are you moronic?
I know this is a joke and all but if African nations and so on don't ape out because of this, why would Ukraine? You might have a point if Ukraine was a fully Westernised nation for the last half a millennia or something.
> but if African nations and so on don't ape out because of this, why would Ukraine?
> You might have a point if Ukraine was a fully Westernised nation for the last half a millennia or something.
It wasnt, but ukrainians in larger cities are kinda used to modern comforts of having electricity and internet 24/7, running water and flushing toilet, heating at home and working public transport, food in the nearby store which you dont have to stand in 4 hour line for.
Said comforts arent top-notch by western standard but they exist and were stable, and when stability is disrupted its really uncomfortable(or unmanagable if for example central heating goes down and its -10 outside).
Group hardship it's easier to endure with a community and an enemy to attribute it to.
An existential war drives a community together and gives them a concrete enemy responsible. They might get upset, but it won't make them want to negotiate with Russia.
They know who to blame, the same vatniks who murdered millions of their fellows within living memory.
Noobs tend to think of conflicts in isolation so here's an example they may understand. The US South isn't over the Squabble Between the States and no one living experienced that.
Ukrainians are going to hate Russians for at least several hundred years.
Until I read the last line I wasn't sure if you were talking about Ukraine or Russian.
>no phone
>no lights
>no motor car
Not a single luxury.
okay but how do poles cleans toilets if there is no running water?
You make the mistake of thinking there are still Ukrainians in Ukraine
All of that shit can be shipped to Ukraine like Christmas on steroids, Vatniks.
My theory is this is in large part a way to placate domestic audiences postwar.
>Yes, we lost, but we killed and raped many khohol children, oinkraine will never recover, therefore we win*~~*~~
Lira, the King Russian Shill, at least the one who still bothers to hope this will all work out has already said that Russia has won, even if Russia is kicked to 2013 borders. Why? Because 'it'll cost trillions to repair Ukraine' (that's a number he made up, estimates have said $400bn atm). Why is this a win for Russia? Well it means the West is fractured from all the spending, it is fractured from the in-fighting on who supported Ukraine the most, it is fricked due to inflation and goods prices, it is fricked because it 'wasted' its weapons on Ukraine and it is fricked because it will have to spend trillions to prop up Ukraine for half a century minimum.
They honestly believe that is a win for Russia, that this is ending the power of the Anglo domination world. Hell, even Putin has said that.
Did Russians memoryhole the resources that Ukraine possesses? Those alone will pay for rebuilding Ukraine 10 times over.
We're going to rebuild Ukraine with the 400 billion in Russian assets frozen by the West
Not to mention the inevitable surge in tourism to Ukraine. People will want to know the people we shielded from the Vatniks.
I have power
>it is now considered a crowning achievement when russia manages to scrounge together 100 missiles for the second time in a month
Russia still has many more over 7,000 missiles
We just saw them shoot nuclear cruise missiles at Ukraine with concrete instead of warheads.
Is to make them waste missile to shoot it down
Very simple to understand
Anon you want to trade your nuclear capability to waste some air defense missiles??
You are dumb
Anon you cannot simultaneously say stockpiles are fine and Russia has plenty of missiles, and also accept that Russia is dearming their nukes to throw rocks at Ukraine.
>hurr durr what are strategic missiles
tourists out
RUSSIS IS TAKING THE NUKES OUT OF THEIR NUKES
TO THROW ROCKS
RUSSIA IS TAKING MISSILES THAT CONTAIN NUKES AND FILLING THEM WITH ROCKS INSTEAD
TO THROW ROCKS AT UKRAINE
False. Russia has no nukes trannoid.
>troony doesn't understand the difference between tactical and strategic nuclear weapons
Sigh
You are ok with a lil nuclear disarmament?
To throw rocks?
To be fair vatnik tac nukes (aka those that they put on iskanders or kh-102's) yields are on the order of american or french strategic warheads
There is no such thing as a 'tactical nuke' the only thing that exists are nuclear weapons with lower yields AND the 'use of them'. It is, however, assumed by people who fricking matter (including US Defence Secretaries) that 'any use of a nuclear weapon is strategic, regardless of the target'. In short, even if you use a nuclear weapon to change the outcome of a battle (say blowing up a carrier fleet or destroying 500 tanks in a valley or something) then it immediately becomes strategic because that's the nature of nukes. Therefore the distinct between 'tactical and strategic nuclear weapons' does not exist. It is essentially cope for nations to go
>We only dropped an ickle nuke, just a tiney weeny one, just a wittle nukie wookie, a little bit of light nuclear fire, a small bit of trolling :^)
Into thinking that such an act would be responded with
>Well that's OK lads, they only dropped a 10 mega ton nuke on the Pacific Carrier Fleet, no worries, there is no need to launch every single available nuclear weapon we have at the target right the frick now, it was only a small one 🙂
And no, don't bother citing the war games where NATO didn't nuke back or where they nuked Belarus instead. It's war games.
It's like these clowns haven't memorized the findings of PROUD PROPHET.
People forget this entire war should never be in the position of 'We might have to use nukes'.
Explain the difference between a tactical and a strategic rock.
Throwing a rock at a soldier is tactical. Throwing a rock at Putin is strategic.
Would be funny if they did the same thing with MIRV ICBMs.
>Russia launches MIRVs
>NATO shits itself, launches every interceptor they have to try to avert nuclear hellfire
>oops, all rocks!
>NATO then launches its completely unscathed nuclear arsenal at Moscow and solves the Russian question for good
Yeah I'd certainly be laughing.
They're not afraid to throw the first stone.
>when you have 7 gorillian cruise missiles, denuclearize yourself instead of using them
-Sun Tzu
> Is to make them waste missile to shoot it down
But i thought ukrainian AA doesnt exist, and what exists only hits poland and residential buildings!
Why would russia need to launch decoys?
Sauce!
Thanks
>AS-15 KENT
>200kt wahead
>i-is only tactical missile!!
>our strategic capabilities are fine!
>we don't even need such lowly tactical use missiles!!
>the later 250kt upgrade is strictly for tactical use!!!!!!
>11.9x the Fat Man is STRICTLY UNIMPORTANT TACTICAL MISSILE IS FINE TO FILL WITH BOULDER!!!!!!!!!!~~*~~*~~*(
Turns out "cement" and "concrete" where common adjutives in articles describing russian positions in June - July.
imagine their surprise when it didn't make an earth-shattering kaboom. they're probably frantically doing a teardown on all their nukes to find out how many nukes they actually have in their concrete inventory.
Why isn't Ukraine hitting targets insde Russia at this point?
To avoid escalation, a wise strategy. Never do the emotionally appealing thing. If a teenage boy likes the idea it's terrible so one should be chained in the basement for reference in case PrepHole goes dark.
They are, usually military airfields, refineries, or staging ground right across the border.
No Russia
>bomb the civilian infrastructure
>west sends more advanced AA
congrats, you just denied yourself any remaining hope of air superiority
West is running out of weapons to supply Ukraine with. The collapse is coming.
>the west can’t build more weapons
Anon, America is a first world country. We can build enough shit to be able to use one HIMARS rocket per shitnik
Ukraine is at 90% grid capacity. Russian propagandist seething and on suicide watch because Ukraine repairs their grid so fast now 🙂
https://nitter.net/Gerashchenko_en/status/1597330498854191104
>even more things to rebuild
Does Russia even realize that they are creating investment opportunities for everyone but themselves, while paying for it?
That's an understatement. There will be housing to be built, roads to be built, electrical grids to overhaul.......it's going to be a gold rush.
I loathe Russia more every day
If you have to "stockpile" missiles that implies you don't have sufficient for immediate strikes and must make or buy more. Modern wars are fought from stocks on hand.