America is fighting to help Ukraine in any way it can. We do care. Ukraine has 20+ launchers now. What it needs right now are HIMARS food; they go through M31 rockets very quickly. We're also giving them anti-radiation missiles now.
Also, you're a vatnik. The "bleed Russia" narrative is Kremlin propaganda, designed to convince Ukrainians that America's help is a cynical anti-Russian ploy. Frick you
Everything is Kremlin propaganda to you frickers. Is it so far fetched that the most powerful country in the world wants to use shitty little eastern European to decimate as much shit of our arch nemesis as possible? If we put in our full effort russia would be driven out by now, but that's not what we want. Proxy wars are our national past time. We're just making sure Russia won't be an issue in the foreseeable future. You should be honored we found you guys competent enough to use our toys.
>Proxy wars are our national past time.
Wrong. Proxy wars are just business, our National Pastime is Nation building. This is the problem with you cynical idiots, you don't actually understand America's geopolitical DNA going back to the fricking 40s. WHY it plays world police, WHY it developed the MIC, the IDEA that that grand pedestal of money props up.
Americans aren't simply greedy like the chinks, they are ARROGANT AND PROUD, and intensely self righteous in viewing the world. They truly believe their way of life is better for everyone. They're a lot like the colonialist bongs in that way, except perhaps even moreso. The average American (and thus their politicians) drinks that Land of the Free kool-aid harder than a hundred Serbs garge Russian cum, and they export democracy and capitalism like a fricking cult.
All of you putting screwing over Russia (hardly a rival superpower anymore and not in any position to get there) over spreading freedom and self determination are putting the cart before the horse.
Black person we are, or at least were colonialist bongs, and suck my 2 inch American wiener, there’s a good fricking reason everyone flees their countries to come here. Theres a damn good reason we essentially are NATOs military, there’s a damn good reason we police the worlds major water ways for trade. Because that koolaid your babbling about is true, we are the hot shit, and frankly, try and stop us.
>our National Pastime
We don't capitalize words in the Middle of the Sentence like it was the 19th fricking Century, vatBlack person. Go peddle your bullshit somewhere else.
>We don't capitalize words in the Middle of the Sentence like it was the 19th fricking Century, vatBlack person
Sounds like you've never seen Black folk and morons post on facebook.
You're moronic if you think states help each other to be chungus avengers or something. There's geopolitical implications for everything where people will use each other to varying degrees of benefit
America helps states to make friends. If you think that's a bad idea, you're a fricking moron. America's doctrine of being friendly to other countries and not being an overbearing dick the way Russia & China are is the reason why Russia & China are now hemmed in by countries that are either US allies or on good terms with the US.
Dumb vatnigs don't realize that being c**ts doesn't make you some kind of savvy political genius nor does it make you a manly man, it just makes all your neighbours hate you and not want to be in your sphere of influence.
Yes, the ramification is another strong ally in Eastern Europe and a cucked Russia. It's in US interest for Ukraine to win so it can be rebuilt and be turned into a powerful ally in the region that will forever occupy Russia's military thinking. Russia's already broken by this war, they're revealed as a non-threat for anything other than a nuclear conflict, and can't really contribute to the real point of tension (US v China). The sooner the war and the Russians head home to lick their wounds, the better for everyone in the West, including the Ukrainians.
Chinese demographics are fricking apocalyptic, coupled with their existential need for fuel and food imports?
China is worse than a paper tiger. It's half a billion to a billion dead Chinese in 20 years minimum /without/ Russia tier sanctions in retaliation for Taiwan.
The Russians are still advancing though. The entire premise of >Ukraine NEEDED to go to war and get its shit kicked in to win the US another committed ally against Russia, only then can the US turn Ukraine's fortunes around and turn them from a corrupt, impoverished, Nazi-ridden shit hole into a slice of Americana on cucked Russia's border
Seems really dumb, if the US was in the business of improving nations so they would become allies out of gratuity, the world would be a peaceful place.
This is happening to Ukraine because the US wanted another Eastern European nation of cannon fodder, the more slavic bodies getting thrown at the Russians at the start of an invasion just gives the West more time to prepare and set up defences for places they actually care about.
>The Russians are still advancing though
We don't know if Russians are advancing, they are losing land around Izum and keep lying about advanced near Avdiivka and Bakhmut(muh Pisky/Siversk/Soledar taken 20 times)
>russians are still advancing
No one cares about WW1 tier advancing. >if the us was in the business
lmao the US spent almost two decades trying to turn sandBlack folk into real people. You're moronic if you think the US wouldn't throw weapons and money at people who want it and won't betray them.
>This is happening to Ukraine because the US wanted another Eastern European nation of cannon fodder
please frick off moron. get it through your skull already that no one in eastern europe likes Russia and we all flock to USA because what is the alternative? the USA doesn't need to do anything to attract people other than not being total subhumans like Russians, that's what you morons fail to understand
Glad somebody said it. They push that "America just wants to prolong the war at the expense of Ukrainians, they could save Ukraine tommorow but it's all about us!" nonstop. If the US just had a boner for Russian blood above all, they'd have focused not on endless nation building, but rather a way to circumvent MAD. No, what the US truly has a boner for is obsessively spreading 'muh democracy', and historically has seen (formerly Soviet) Russia as an opponent of that.
So now we're back in Cold War mode muttering "NOT ONE MORE DOMINO KRUSCHEV" and doing our level best to prevent Ukraine from falling under the yoke of wannabe commie successors. Honestly, to think we'd go through all this trouble just to weaken Russia when they were already doing such an incredible job of weakening themselves.
>No, what the US truly has a boner for is obsessively spreading 'muh democracy'
Well, it helps democracies usually have good relations with the US and buy amerocan products, i bet the US would rather have a democracy i saudi arabia instead of dealing with b***hy autocratic monarchs that throw a hissy fit if the US wants to get out the iranian nuclear mess with a treaty instead of an invasion
> The "bleed Russia" narrative is Kremlin propaganda
Maybe the bleed part.
NATOs main dilemma is the nukes.
Push Russia out too hard and they risk actually pushing the button.
Even if it’s just nuking Ukraine, this would be a terrible loss for the world.
Letting Ukraine fall or bleed out is also stupid because now Russia will be making their following moves on Romania or some similar NATO state.
I think NATO is waiting for the Russians to come into the acceptance stage.
When Russia accepts that this is a war with Ukraine, not a tacticool frolic in the countryside.
After that moment they will try to destroy as much Russian equipment as possible.
Counter battery, ATGMs, Long range strikes on airfields, etc.
You have already kind of seen this part in action.
Then the next phase would be to increase casualties to where the Russian admin starts feeling the pressure back home.
NATO will want to hollow them out as much as possible until the only thing they really have left are the nukes, and by then the Russian administration will be too politically soul-sapped from war exhaustion to actually use them.
Then we can get the bastards not just out of Ukraine, but hopefully out of the fight for good, where they literally are so broken they can’t maintain their nukes.
But long term that’s just what NATO wants.
The reason why HIMARS would stop is because of bottlenecks on the Uke side or it’s just Vatnik rambling.
Because there’s no reason why NATO wouldn’t want to give the Ukes more counter battery.
They actually really want them to counter battery Russian artillery, ammo, and everything else.
>Letting Ukraine fall or bleed out is also stupid because now Russia will be making their following moves on Romania or some similar NATO state.
Russia will never move against NATO, unless they want to balkanize so fricking fast their heads will spin.
This. In truth it's a logistics. Also NATO still worrying about muh escalation and so on.
Of course, Russia would take advantage of this by repeating their movie villain tier propaganda ("xaxa, West is abandoning you, Hohols!", etc.).
>The "bleed Russia" narrative is Kremlin propaganda, designed to convince Ukrainians that America's help is a cynical anti-Russian ploy. Frick you
It is an anti-Russian ploy lmao
You think anybody cares about Ukraine itself? Most people couldn't even locate it on a map last year.
We are the most powerful military force in the history of man. Every fight is our fight. Because what happens over here, matters over there. We don't get to sit one out. Learning to use the tools of modern warfare is the difference between the prospering of your people, and utter destruction. We can't give you freedom. But we can give you the know-how to acquire it. And that, my friends, is worth more than a whole army base of steel. Sure it matters who's got the biggest stick, but it matters a helluva lot more who's swinging it. This is a time for heroes. A time for legends. I don't know what language you speak, I cannot find your country on a map, and I couldn't tell you a damn thing about your culture, but I will defend with my life your right to be free from Russian and Chinese savages. History is written by the victors. Let's get to work.
No the US wants to extend the war so we can get a return on our MIC investment stupid reddit fricktard you think we give a frick about another shade of Russians larping as a literal meme country?
every single reply to this post: >this is red >no moron, it's a square >no moron, it's flat >no moron, russia wants you to think it's a circle
there can be more than one motivation for it you homosexuals
The US doesn’t really care if Ukraine wins or loses so long as Russian soldiers and equipment are getting blown up.
Expect Ukraine to receive more equipment if Russia is able to break the stalemate
>United States only possesses around 400 HIMARS launchers >PROOF THAT AMERICA DOESN'T WANT UKRAINE TO WIN TRUST THE PLAN Z
Or maybe the US doesn't want to send its entire stockpile because it would otherwise have none available for its own potential war with Russia or China
Or just these, 20 launchers?, are all Ukraine 2º echelon can keep working now with their crews and is pointless keep sending more when they have to train Ukie mantenace crews in another six weapons systems.
>Oh no, America is bleeding us out on this war of aggression we initiated for spurious reasons
Wow. That sounds pretty shitty for you guys. Have you thought about just leaving Ukraine?
It makes sense. America (or more honestly our political elite) wants Ukraine as a dependent vassel state and Russia as weak as possible without them saying frick it and resorting to nukes.
That's atcualy good due supporting that much HIMARS vehicles without you know haveing years of build infrastructure around them whould be pain but on the plus side atlest no ammo shortage due what good a system if you don't have ammo for it
True but the ammo now is more important and seting up logistics to support more due we can see what happening with 155mm shells due the ukies have the peaces to shoot them but limited ammo so they have to ration it
So post some of the ones sold to russia.
If they have 6 why can't they post even just image?
I know you're probably baiting but vatniks are actually moronic enough for me not to be able to tell the difference
damn so are the russians too moronic to use or copy the ones they got or did the ukrainians just sell them shitty ladas with dumpsters in the back and the russians fell for it because they incapable of using flush toilets.
The US doesn’t really care if Ukraine wins or loses so long as Russian soldiers and equipment are getting blown up.
Expect Ukraine to receive more equipment if Russia is able to break the stalemate
The USA also want to see the economies of Europe and Russia to take a hit and their relations destroyed. They were losing the grasp on Europe and especially Germany.
This new Cold War couldn't have come at a better time now that China is ready to go imperial while also becoming a closer trade partner than the US to many Western nations.
We were approaching a global power equilibrium but this is now averted.
moronic take. The US would dream of a non-moronic Europe that
1) Acknowledges the threats, and does not become dependent on them
2) Can defend itself
So they can focus on the pacific.
Not when all it's threats (Russia) are likely to be gone in next few decades. Strong Europe without a Russia to keep them in check suddenly becomes a threat itself.
it's just concern trolling, ignore it.
How much of NATO's defense spending is just the US? Granted the EU has more money in manufacturing capabilities but that's the entire EU civilian and defense sector.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I mean the US is essentially NATO as far as real military strength and projection is concerned. The idea that EUROPEANS would turn on America when we essentially run their military and trade routes is so baffling to me it was more shock than anything.
2 years ago
Anonymous
we have deals with them to house our nukes in their countries and we buy stuff their military industrial complexes produce (aren't there more Rheinmetall guns in Abrams than there are in Leopards?)
it's win-win, the US doesn't have imperialist aims, regardless of what the vatniks and CCP project onto the West - if it did Afghanistan and Iraq would be US states.
Holy frick, this is such moronic opinion, please stop posting.
concern trolling is a gay tactic and you should have a nice day
Russia out, US in, Germany down.
Back then and now.
Your reactions speak for themselves.
The EU as third superpower is something the USA don't want since fellow Westerners aren't easily demonized and can just tilt more towards Asia, isolating the US instead.
Unrivaled world dominance is the goal of the USA, that should be clear as day.
Main export destination for basically all EU countries is US. It makes absolutely no fricking sense for US to damage euro zone economy because it will cause damage to US too. Stop with your brain dead takes.
That's a small price to pay when Germany, which leads this push for autonomy, takes the brunt of the economic damage and gets put back in place.
Have you written the other "stop posting" reply too? Awfully engaging attitude you got towards those "holy frick moronic" and "brainless" opinion.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ok, explain how Germany pushes for autonomy, and how US will punish them ? They made a mistake when it comes gas supply and now they are paying the price. They are still extremely important trade partner to US, all the stuff you are saying just doesn't make any sense.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Germany dominates Europe and has displayed efforts to remove itself from the US sphere of influence, cozying up with Russia and China. Not to the degree of switching sides but to a degree where both sides are played in the own best interest.
Russia was on it's way to become Europe's gas station and mineral dispenser. The Russians don't have the capability to develop or produce revolutionary technology anymore, Europe has. Cheap and secure access to the building blocks of such achievements is the groundwork to excel. Putin of course took this route, because the ability to turn off the lights in Europe gives huge leverage. Sounds dumb on Europe's side but the plan was to make such an action end in mututal destruction, this is happening to a degree right now but media portrays it like Germany will freeze to death while Russia is just fine, which it really isn't, but that's another topic.
>They are still extremely important trade partner to US
We're not talking about developments that will happen within our lifetime, this is not how the strategists think.
You don't want that partner to grow strong enough to be able to make serious demands or run over to your rival who will gladly accept to make you lose on 2 fronts.
In it's current state the "United states of Europe" with access to Russian natural ressources would not be a threat to the USA but who knows what will happen in the next hundred years? History has shown the chaotic nature politics.
Braindead or corrupt idiots (yeah I know) could take seats in the EU parliament and Europe actually COULD become an Asian puppet state or maybe even give a go at world dominance themselves.
It's about minimizing risk to a degree where it's ideally non existant.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Russia, except gas doesn't have much to offer, it is important but as you said it's not as important as Russian propaganda says. Gas was suppose to be a short time solution to allow German economy to go green. I think that you are overestimating German-Russian relationship. Especially when RF actively funds organizations that support divisions in EU. When it comes to China I agree with you, but everyone cooperate with them, you would have to be stupid not to deal with second largest economy in the world.
Second argument also is kinda weak to me, this type of long term planning have so many variables you could come up with infinite amount of scenarios to act upon.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Russia, except gas doesn't have much to offer
That is wrong and I won't bother educating you on that. >Second argument also is kinda weak to me...you could come up with infinite amount of scenarios to act upon
So controlling the playing field to limit the amount scenarios you potentially have to act upon is useless?
2 years ago
Anonymous
What are EU states producing in the technology and electronics department? In the early 2000s when you looked in people's pockets and living rooms, European electronics were everywhere but now everything is Asian or American. Maybe it's not the same in military electronics?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Braindead or corrupt idiots (yeah I know) could take seats [...] maybe even give a go at world dominance themselves.
Funny, that's the exact same thing we think about america since trump became president.
What are EU states producing in the technology and electronics department? In the early 2000s when you looked in people's pockets and living rooms, European electronics were everywhere but now everything is Asian or American. Maybe it's not the same in military electronics?
Consumer electronics don't mean much. Europe produces tons of industrial machinery and electronics though - hell, the highest level litography machines for chip producing are made in the netherlands. Military electronics are pretty good as well, though not on american levels.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is a realist take on international relations which is ultimately self-defeating. If you treat people like your enemy you will MAKE them your enemy.
We should be wary but not paranoid - trust, for as long as trust is maintained. Europe has problems; so does America. We can overcome them together or fail alone.
When you act defensively and against your allies you don't minimize risk, you maximize it. This is the lesson of thousands of years of human society and trying to beat it out of the heads of our moron leaders has taken literally generations of work since the 1800s.
>"but germany and russia proves that I'm right! but China proves that free markets =/= free people!"
I agree. Nothing is guaranteed and we can chalk this up to being just another lesson - there can be no peace between dictators and democracies. The 1990s optimism after the fall of the USSR and the "End of History" theory was wrong. It's good that we learned it now, not later, but let's not carry that lesson too far.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the "End of History" theory was wrong
The theory still holds. We're just going backwards. Just look at China, Russia, and Iran. A few years ago people hailed China's "Lee Kwan Yew model but nationwide" as something to emulate, but look at them now. Turns out liberal democracy IS indeed the meta of political system (along with its variants).
2 years ago
Anonymous
Based and I do agree to some extent. Ironically it's the people who criticise "End of History" theory who act like history has ended and China could never moderate and Russia can persist indefinitely as a declining kleptocracy.
Russia is steps away from collapse and whatever replaces their system it won't be the same as it was before. Xi getting appointed Dear Leader for Life is the worst thing that could happen to China's autocracy because I bet his leadership won't be so good when he's 80.
The fact that history HASN'T ended is the strongest argument for End of History theory, ironically. Liberal democracy is """backsliding""" (literally only in America, which was never a very good democracy in the first place) but autocracies are far from ascendant. Russia is a regional middle power with nukes; China has massive challenges at home that far exceed the problems in the US economy (which is actually going strong, although it's not delivering for the typical American worker because it's rigged, but even so it's less rigged than China).
Basically we are watching Cold War 2 and there's no reason to expect a different ending. Our shithole enemies will collapse under the weight of their own inadequacy. All we have to do - and we can definitely do it - is outlast them by simply adhering to the basic fundamentals of good government. I'd stake the global order on it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
there's not really a backslide, the oligarchic nature fundamental to capitalism is just more obvious when it has to use the state to keep itself propped up and can no longer afford to play pretend at a democratic process.
given the relative balance of social and political power, this whole thing is poised, IMO, to facilitate an increase in the quality of American democracy - it's just media overplaying fringes and feeding off conflict for attention profits that skews the perception.
by and large with a massive shutdown and a senile circus peanut at the helm the US ship of state made it through just fine; there's enough democracy in the nation's core to keep capitalist oligarchy from truly overriding it (they're literally looking for wunderwaffe right now with AI because they're scared shitless what happens when their cronies shrivel up and die and their kids are too savvy to corporate grift for their strategies to work).
fascism is a tantrum thrown by wealth and power in the face of the democratic will of the people - and it has already failed so utterly that its own adherents are eating each other alive
2 years ago
Anonymous
>the US dominates Europe
FTFY
2 years ago
Anonymous
>both sides are played in the own best interest
First they import millions of shitskins, then shut down their nuclear plants and then make almost entire country dependent on the Russian gas. Is that acting in your own best interest?
"Smart German" is some stupid myth that needs to die.
2 years ago
/out/ie
You sound poor.
2 years ago
Anonymous
When realize the ones who did that are internationalist Russian assets who wanted to create a United States of Europe built on fabian socialist and social democrat lines, yes. Someone's gotta be paying for all those old rotten motherfrickers who are the majority of the German population.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Those isolation attempts worked so well lol
So you didn't understand what I said. Ok.
Why do Americans love Asians so much? What's wrong with Mother Europe? Don't you think that White countries should help each other out and all that? Also with Canadians and Mexicans (yuck), going so far as planning to integrate the three economies, so that you could quickly switch to a semi-autarky during an emergency. It's like you're planning to fight China or something. That's a bad idea, you know.
Main export destination for basically all EU countries is US. It makes absolutely no fricking sense for US to damage euro zone economy because it will cause damage to US too. Stop with your brain dead takes.
Lol fed Black folk mad he hit the nail right on the head
moronic take. The US would dream of a non-moronic Europe that
1) Acknowledges the threats, and does not become dependent on them
2) Can defend itself
So they can focus on the pacific.
>the US would dream of an independent Black person population that doesn't need or want government handouts. They don't want the power and control that comes with being depended on!
Lol, lmao
>I-it's the Americans destroying Russian-European relations! Not the rat-like behavior of murderfricking our neighbors and blowing ourselves up!
Pidorashka.
Russia hasn't been able to destroy one, yet, so why would they need more? They have, what, ~20 and enough people trained to run them 24/7 in 3 8hr shifts? Just keeping them supplied and destroying vatnig depots and C2 is perfect. If, by some chance, vatnigs manage to destroy one, just replace it.
>tried to fire faster than the system allows
Lmao at Poles. Not so long ago they were coping that Pzh2000 in Ukraine were displaying messages asking for maintenance because they were used too hard, now I know why. It's the same with Poles as it is with Russians, I guess, they always accuse you of their own faults and problems.
They ignored safety procedures. And crew was still saved by automatic fire extinguishers.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Cope. So much for Polish contribution, they're giving Ukrainians delicate and failible equipment.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Christ I feel sorry for those guys. The hell and shame they have gone through for destroying one of the precious Western guns will be worse than being cooked by their own mistake.
I haven't seen these threads, sure there are few polish schizos jerking off to Krabs and shitting on germans, but you are reaching a little bit too far with these comparisons.
That's a low number for such a complex system tbh. In Iraq the vehicles broke every day and without a maintenance crew with 200 years of experience shared between them 90% of the vehicles would have been inoperable.
2 years ago
Anonymous
While this is true you forgot to mention that Germany already send spare parts and Kiev said they can get them up and running very soon. And in the last package for Ukraine the also brought 12 gepards with a bunch of ammo, then some mine clearing equipment, a bunch of jammers, a few drones with fitting drone control units and anti-drone equipment
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's to be expected in a war. Equipment breaks down when you use it a lot
with a road mine , of all things. Only proven vatBlack person "victory" in war against modern mobile artillery, and and it was due to random chance rather than actual counterbattery effort,
I also don't get the fixation of the Russians on it. None of these are wunderwaffe type weapons that can't be replaced. Eliminating even 5 of them won't do anything.
They need a propaganda victory, but this is pretty desperate.
Anon, these systems are "wunderwaffe".
The whole propaganda effort from Russians/reformgays is that only a literal handful of these systems exist and they're direct counterparts to something Russia already has.
You cannnot explain to them in plain language that the US alone has something like nearly six hundred HIMARS launchers this year, and has stockpiled rounds in the low 7 or 8 digits (if you count stuff like the old m30 rockets).
Reformer arguments hinge on these more complicated systems being impossible to field in high numbers. You need cheaper, lighter, simpler systems because because these complicated "high tech" systems are too fragile and difficult to produce in the numbers needed to deploy on a meaningful scale. This dichotomy is the most fundamental tenet of the reformers doctrine.
The problem with that argument is that HIMARS is the cheaper, lighter, simpler system.
2 years ago
Anonymous
What is the advance system?
2 years ago
Anonymous
a system can be both an advance and more streamlined
The HIMARS is the lighter, cheaper, simpler and more advanced version of M270 (and just cheaper and lighter than the upgraded M270A2).
8 documented m777 losses out of ~140 sent by western countries
Those are towed too which means the Russians are really fricking ineffective at counter battery and search and destroy
They got some PzH2ks in a barrage but their armor just shrugged it off.
I haven't seen these threads, sure there are few polish schizos jerking off to Krabs and shitting on germans, but you are reaching a little bit too far with these comparisons.
>sure there are few polish schizos jerking off to Krabs and shitting on germans, but you are reaching a little bit too far with these comparisons.
See
10 out of 15 Pzh2000 are out of service due to broken autoloaders.
OGpoles on /k/are fine, but there were literally just about 3. Polish tourists on the other hand are one of the worst things that ever happened to /k/.
>so why would they need more?
because currently all the HIMARS are in the hands of the SBU and military reconnaissance forces, they are not readily avaliable to regular army. Which is why they are used to blow up high value targets and not for counterbattery fire or suppresion of enemy positions
handing over say 60-80 more would mean that they could be handed to the army and used as regular artillery
Poland wants to be Europe's premier military power rather than just have to "hold" russia in the event of a war. They don't want to be in the position Ukraine is. They want to Red Rover clothesline the Russians the second they make a play for Eastern Europe rather than just try to hold them off while the US/France/UK/Italy/Spain get off their ass to help
Tracks = best short-range mobility because they cross mud, ditches, rubble etc.
Wheels = best medium-range mobility because they get good milage & speed. Also they're cheaper to maintain.
When your weapon's range is long enough you don't need to go through shitty terrain because you can fire from tons of different accessible options (most of the time).
Once you realise that the other advantages of wheels become insurmountable.
They intend to fire them off all at once if war starts. 500 HIMARS will give any attacker enough pause that they will be able to muster a counter-attack even if caught pretty much unaware.
>3000 GMLRS-ER raining hell on Russian bases
you can throw in some ATACMS but god damn, imagine what all those would do to Russian air bases, armories, ammo depots and AA sites
Ukraine only needed 10 or so HRIM-2 or ATACMS to wipe out half of that Crimean air base
Biden's administration sends exactly enough aid to keep us in the fight but not nearly enough to let us take our land back.
Beggars can't be choosers, but it's kind of a dickhead strategy. The US could end this war in a matter of weeks by tipping the scales with its little finger, but they choose not to. Sad!
Sorry Ukiebro it's a deliberate strategy to let Putin continue to bleed, to the point either his admin collapses or they exhaust their military so much they never pose a threat to Europe again. If they tap out too soon they could regather strength. We want them crippled for the next generation or two.
PS I hope you get ATACMS soon to help get back Crimea, good luck
Whether it destroys Ukraine or not is of lesser importance. What matters is that it will kill Russia. Maybe not immidiately, but over 10 years. Just like afgan war killed USSR.
Russia being knocked out means we can dedicate 100% of our attention to China and be confident that the european nato powers can handle Russia if ww3 happens. China wont be viewing Russia as a reliable military partner again after this, if they cant even take Ukraine what hope did the Russians have against France or the UK or even the Italians/Spanish? At best, Russia is their gas pump.
It makes totals sense actually. Because quick military defeat would allow Russia to save their industry, their economy and keep the educated professionals on. But 2-3 years long middle scale conflict like right now would be much more disastrous for Russia, considering the sanctions have only really stared to bite them just now.
And for Ukrainians... Well, they'll have to pay with their blood for the European future the desire so much.
Sorry Ukiebro it's a deliberate strategy to let Putin continue to bleed, to the point either his admin collapses or they exhaust their military so much they never pose a threat to Europe again. If they tap out too soon they could regather strength. We want them crippled for the next generation or two.
PS I hope you get ATACMS soon to help get back Crimea, good luck
Agree, I think it's a big part of it, the rational Realpolitik one. The libtard part is to avoid humiliating Putin too much because in their opinion it could lead to unpredictable consequences.
No, putin should be utterly and completely annihilated. But slowly, so he wouldn't realize it. Bait him into thinking he is winning and is just one step away from it but this step never occurs
>It makes totals sense actually. Because quick military defeat would allow Russia to save their industry, their economy and keep the educated professionals on. But 2-3 years long middle scale conflict like right now would be much more disastrous for Russia, considering the sanctions have only really stared to bite them just now.
This. It's probably not good for ukrainians but this will ruin the Putin regime and the future of Russia.
It's already ruined in some respect, nobody will invest there for decades as they nationalized foreign companies' property. This is on top of the fact that it's hard to even set anything up in russia because of corruption issues.
Some russians say 30 years worth of investments are gone because of this...
Yeah, our government has been infiltrated by communists.
Ukraine is getting just enough aid in order to pacify the average joe, so as to not make him suspect something might be going on behind the curtains, but in reality our politicians are all compromised so they'll never give your country our full support.
Sorry Ukiebro it's a deliberate strategy to let Putin continue to bleed, to the point either his admin collapses or they exhaust their military so much they never pose a threat to Europe again. If they tap out too soon they could regather strength. We want them crippled for the next generation or two.
PS I hope you get ATACMS soon to help get back Crimea, good luck
It makes totals sense actually. Because quick military defeat would allow Russia to save their industry, their economy and keep the educated professionals on. But 2-3 years long middle scale conflict like right now would be much more disastrous for Russia, considering the sanctions have only really stared to bite them just now.
And for Ukrainians... Well, they'll have to pay with their blood for the European future the desire so much.
https://i.imgur.com/0Qo573g.jpg
>but they choose not to
The goal is to drain Russia's military and ruin its economy.
Yeah, our government has been infiltrated by communists.
Ukraine is getting just enough aid in order to pacify the average joe, so as to not make him suspect something might be going on behind the curtains, but in reality our politicians are all compromised so they'll never give your country our full support.
Or it's just a logistic issue.
Ukraine cannot handle more than X, and not more than Y operators can be trained at the same time.
1. You can't take everything at once.
2. We can't give everything at once.
3. A slow escalation is preferred so the Russians don't lose their minds and start nuking everything.
4. We don't want to show off all of our toys if we don't have to.
This war was designed to create a wasteland/agricultural area for the future [[[Khazarian empire]]]. Ending war would hold the plan Anon. Ukraine must be incinerated and all surrounding areas reduced to such a point they do not intrude (this includes both Russia and western Europe.)
It makes totals sense actually. Because quick military defeat would allow Russia to save their industry, their economy and keep the educated professionals on. But 2-3 years long middle scale conflict like right now would be much more disastrous for Russia, considering the sanctions have only really stared to bite them just now.
And for Ukrainians... Well, they'll have to pay with their blood for the European future the desire so much.
Look at the cheap glavset hooker with its concern trolling. Truly a revolting race of subhumans.
Same basic system. M270 is on tracks and has double the launcher tubes, but is slower to deploy and redeploy
>How does it compare to HIMARS
it's slower, tracked, more armored and has double the rockets though i heard controlling electronics might be a slightly older than himars
himars is better for driving down the road, unloading and getting the frick out
m270 should be better when there's no road or it's shit
Nice. Is it as accurate as HIMARS? If so then Ukraine will be fine. They need ATACMS. I wouldn't be surprised if Lockheed glowies were secretly testing PRISM with Ukraines HIMARS
>How does it compare to HIMARS
it's slower, tracked, more armored and has double the rockets though i heard controlling electronics might be a slightly older than himars
himars is better for driving down the road, unloading and getting the frick out
m270 should be better when there's no road or it's shit
So would it be better to use ATACMS with the slower m270, so it can be further from harm and have more time to escape using longer range missiles, and the shorter range missiles with the HIMARS since it can escape much quicker?
with atacms you'll probably will want to use range as much as you can, so the m270 ability to track across rough terrain might offer some advantage in getting those few km that can turn something unreachable into a target, and as a bonus it can carry two of them.
though allegedly missiles for those systems are blocked from striking russian soil, so it could be a nothinburger
[...]
[...]
Nice. Is it as accurate as HIMARS? If so then Ukraine will be fine. They need ATACMS. I wouldn't be surprised if Lockheed glowies were secretly testing PRISM with Ukraines HIMARS
they shoot the same shit, so yes
himars is literally half of m270 put on truck
>How many m270s does Ukraine have?
6 Three British and three German, though I'm not sure the Germans have delivered them yet or not
Brits aren't saying how many more additional ones are going, but they only have 40 of them
How I sleep knowing Russia has failed to destroy even a single HIMARS vehicle (FSB would pay millions for an undeniable HD photo of a burnt out HIMARS husk)
Can someone explain to me why this fricking war is still ongoing? I don't want propaganda shilling from either side, it's just weird to me that a more powerful country like Russia with a much larger military can't get shit done. I remember when this war started and everyone was like "this will be over soon bro, Ukraine doesn't stand a chance, they'll get crushed in a month or something"
russia doesn't have the ability to conduct maneuver warfare against Ukraine without severe losses like those at the start of the war and has thus fallen into WW1 tier positional and attritional warfare
>why this fricking war is still ongoing?
Piss poor plan on Russia's part. Keep in mind, the Ukies have been training for this exact scenario for 8 years, when Russia took parts of eastern Ukraine and Crimea.
>Keep in mind, the Ukies have been training for this exact scenario for 8 years
LOL no we haven't. In fact Zelensky dismantled most of our new weapon programs and tried to do everything to appease Putin while staying in power. It was Chamberlain-tier and it was in Ukraine.
In truth Ukraine was only prepared for a limited conflict in the East, nothing more than that.
Tbh everyone but the UK seemed to think we were being hyperbolic, and the Chinese seemed to be insulted when we told them that Russia would do it without warning them and that we were just stirring trouble.
The lesson is that if UK HUMINT and US ELINT/SIGINT/SATINT are all telling the same story you should probably listen
Before the war, everyone assumed Russia's military wasn't lead by thieves and morons exclusively, and that at least 50% of Russian boasting was rooted in reality.
Lack of political will in Kremlin to declare war and mobilize army, they still operate under basically peace time conditions. Main problem is that a lot of russian soldiers simply cancel their contracts without any consequences and just go home. Which means that RF lacks manpower to make any difference at the battlefield.
You know how in vidya a t90M is roughly equivalent to an M1A2 sepv3 Abrams, and how their Mi-28 helos are great, and how their rocket arty is super accurate and everywhere, and how every BMP is a BMP3 with all the upgrades?
Because attacking is way way harder than defending, specially in urban enviroments. Paired with the fact that Russian numbers were largely an illussion, given there was no proper preparation to get the old soviet rustbuckets going before the shooting started, rather than sitting on a field making up a number.
Russia also was too greedy with trying to take Kiev, and after being defeated, it emboldened the Ukies and their allies to set as an objective to retake all the land taken by the russians in the long term.
Basically, by seeing the russian failure, Ukraine feels they can turn things back instead of suing for peace, and by setting it's goals too high, suing for peace right now for russia would be seen as a local failure.
Russia started the war with the wrong impression, though it was, fair to them, the impression most of the world had. They assumed they didn't have to declare full war/mobilization since the idea was they'd send in VDV, scare out the civilian government, and establish a puppet state. Remember the offer even the US made to Zelensky to extract him early on.
Russia was flat-footed against the actual resistance the Ukies put up. It was more than what a state 'police action' could defeat. And now Russia's in the creek because they're in a catch-22. They can't defeat the Ukrainians acting as the free world's proxy, but domestically they can't go to a full war footing, because it would destroy the 'Russia stronk' propaganda.
If Russia can't defeat the Ukrainians by Spring '23, Putin will be killed and made the scapegoat. The reason I say Spring is because the Winter SHOULD benefit the Russians, at least historically. That will be the biggest litmus test as to the capability of the Russians to ultimately defeat the Ukies with their current level of military deployment.
>I say Spring is because the Winter SHOULD benefit the Russians, at least historically
[ X ] DOUBT
Although, I generally agree with you. But Allies of Ukraine are well-positioned and well-experienced to provide all sorts of Winter gear and tactics. This isn't the classical Russia Winter retreat & defense. Supply lines aren't going to be empty or stretched for Ukraine, they're being well-stocked up for the Winter already.
Russian supply lines seem to already be anemic. Can't see any improvement due in that any time soon. Or, really, at all.
because Putin needs more time to assess the state of his military and see if they can learn to fight properly; he now sees he needs to invest in certain areas and make further reforms to the officer corps and recruitment system.
It will end when Russia has all of the Donetsk reason as they have stated multiple times. That will probably happen by Christmas since Ukraine has hardly any good soldiers left while Russia's soldiers are just getting warmed up and off the sidelines.
Don't worry, if you sign up we'll put you into the same unit with rapists and murders, then if you have second thoughts about being sent on a suicidal charge (which Russian law allows you to refuse excep during actual war), we'll incarcerate, torture and starrve you until you reconsider.
I was referring to the contract soldiers that were illegaly imprisoned by their officers. It was all over the (government banned) news in Russia a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was obvious I was talking about Russia.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I was just talking about Russian society in general where they'll break your bones and shove things up your for a confession for making graffiti.
Not "disobey orders" but free to refuse deployment abroad and get discharged.
Similar to how it's supposedly illegal to deploy conscripts into combat all, except during war or in defense of the country (they still deployed a massive ammount of conscripts to Ukraine).
What the frick is up with this larp that Russia is only using 0.02% of it's power? This is not an anime where a character wants a real fight so they're deliberately holding back until they dramatically reveal that they actually have a power level of six gorillion. Russia was just fricking lying about it's military capabilities and they're an Africa-tier military.
Maybe they really want to go back to them pulling people off the streets from major cities then blindfolding them and having them be in a warzone the next day so they can be at their "full power".
Ah yeah the tactic that didn't fricking work and Russians only won WW2 because they stopped being morons and put generals with an actual sense of strategy in command.
Just to remind you Puccia is using 85% of their whole armed forces and is currently in a standstill.
More untrained churkas won't do any diference but Monke is welcome to try it.
A couple of factors >Putin never declaired war limiting the force that could be sent >insane corruption leading the Kremlin to beleive the smaller force was well trained / equipped which it wasn't >Ukraine has spent 8 years getting ready for this >glowies called it perfectly and Ukraine got plently of warning about exact locations and dates >plently of high moral volenteers in Ukraine >plenty of conscripts that didn't even know they were invading for the Russians >mass arming of the general population by Ukraine, even without signing up they'll give you an AK and ammo
These are the factors that made Ukraine hold out more than a month in the first place. Once they had held out that long NATO started to realize they might actually hold on and this would be a great proxy war to destroy Russia with. Since then we have seen huge amounts of arms and equipment flowing into Ukraine, like any proxy war it's a great place to test your weapons agaisnt a "near peer" without the bad PR of going to war yourself.
I wish I was a HIMAR rocket launched at some ammo depot or barracks and as I descended I could see the panicked faces of vatniks fruitlessly attempting to run to save their pitiful lives only to get blown up along with their military hardware.
Then I get reincarnated as another HIMAR rocket.
vehicle is on fire
there is no vehicle on fire, it's just from there the second missile hit. The first shot is a complete miss, the second lands a lot closer but it's just the fire from where it landed.
the humiliation is the absolute state of you vatnikerinos foaming at the mouth over destroyed western equipment that isn't even destroyed. you've truly ran out of shit to show, huh? not even villages these days
why do you dorks feel the need to pick a "side" instead of enjoying this comfy war that we get to witness? do you really have such a lack of identity that you must align yourself with idiot russians or idiot ukranians in order to feel something?
just sit back and enjoy the reports of new and old equipment and doctrines being field tested thousands of miles away from your home in a piece of the world no one gives a flying frick about. the outcome of this little war will hold no significance in your lives unless you actually live in the region.
Because Russians and Vatnik shills have shat up /k/ and other boards for over a decade. This has been explained time and time again. Furthermore /k/ by and large supports the underdog and the guy getting attacked. The fact it is Russia doing it just makes it obvious people will support Ukraine. Plus the morons who support Russia are absolute morons who support Russia for the dumbest reasons and their denial of evidence just adds to that.
That or they're actually over 20 and know what Russia is like geopolitically and are happy to see them get stomped.
I feel like if armatard wouldn't be universally hated after years of schizoposting there'd be a less clear anti-Russian front on /k/.
Who knew a single poster could turn ab entire board against a whole country? Lmao
burgermutt nazi israelites finally recognizing that POCCIA cannot lose their crusade to save the white race and end leftist globohomosexual by restoring the soviet union
it is finally OVER for THE ukraine, the west is cutting their losses. just a few short weeks before unconditional surrender
Good, that will teach the Ukies the concept of unit preservation, unlike the Cuckniks who don't have any because they are under the delusion that they have unlimited stockpiles of tanks and BMPs somewhere in Siberia.
literally Ukraine has to do to end this war is unconditionally surrender. putin has already committed himself politically so he can't pull the troops back. only ukraine can stop this war. i urge Zelenskyy to do the right thing and end this meaningless bloodshed.
literally Russia has to do to end this war is unconditionally surrender. zelensky has already committed himself politically so he can't pull the troops back. only russia can stop this war. i urge Putin to do the right thing and end this meaningless bloodshed.
John from Ohio oblast here, the hamburger and hotdog prices are skyrocketing.I can't drive my truck anymore. I urge Mr. Biden to stop sending weapons to Ukraine and focus on our problems
Sam from Montana oblast here. I am unable to fuel my large vehicle of recreation and my round american wife can no longer afford the feed for my rabbits due to our lack of gas from russia. How can I be expected to travel from state to state, where we don't require permits, this season of merry holidays? We must stop providing Ukraine with weapons and focus our resources on our oblasts instead.
Da, I agree fellow Amerikanski tovarisch. Supporting warmonger HATO and khokhol nazi ukrop regime cost too many dollar we could spend here in US of A on baseball and hamburger sandwiches
Been wondering for a while now, whatever happened to the old M270s that the HIMARS replaced? They use the same ammo, if there's still depots full of M270s they should just ship those out.
>whatever happened to the old M270
They're getting upgraded to M270A2s.
>Lockheed Martin, in partnership with the Red River Army Depot, is modernizing M270 with a brand new 600 horsepower engine, an Improved Armored Cab, and Common Fire Control System (CFCS). This upgrade provides compatibility with future munitions like the Extended-Range GMLRS and the Precision Strike Missile (PrSM). The complete restoration ensures the M270-series launcher remains highly effective and reliable to serve the U.S. Army and partner nations through 2050.
https://news.lockheedmartin.com/built-in-arkansas-lockheed-martin-delivers-first-modernized-m270a2-to-us-army
Each HIMARS is a gate to hell, right now there are over 16 gates to hell in Ukraine and as long as the ammo is flowing the gates shall remain open. Say Russia manages to take out a few HIMARS well the US has hundreds to replenish what Ukraine needs and re-open the gates again.
US probably realized oinkrainians were selling HIMARS to Rossiya and cut them off. No more rockets for piggy nazi's. /k/ is sure going to be quiet after rossiya advances on donbass yet again.
Not really, HIMARS units are GPS/inertial nav semi-guided missiles with DPICM or unitary explosive warheads, not the insanely expensive ATACMS with 300km range.
Picture: something they should dust off for Ukraine, the XM130 SLUFAE (Surface-Launched Fuel-Air Explosive). Based off the old MGM-52 Lance launcher chassis, design intent was taking out minefields by detonating APERS and pressure-sensitive anti-vehicle mines with blast overpressure. Needs some tweaks for range, they were basically BLU-73/Bs with Zuni rocket motors stuck to the ends, for engineer purposes a range of 150m was deemed good enough. Would make one hell of an artillery system if you could extend that.
>post-80s loading technology is thoroughly alien to some people
They got some PzH2ks in a barrage but their armor just shrugged it off.
[...] >sure there are few polish schizos jerking off to Krabs and shitting on germans, but you are reaching a little bit too far with these comparisons.
See [...]
OGpoles on /k/are fine, but there were literally just about 3. Polish tourists on the other hand are one of the worst things that ever happened to /k/.
I doubt the tourists are actual poles, considering they have the same language patterns as the guys who spam about "pooland". They're just here to /misc/ up the board.
Poles, Serbs, Balts, Krauts. You name them.
Fact is, Ukraine topics pop up and older ones become active again when it's around 8 AM in Europe.
The number of Polish shill threads are an indication we have a lot of them here.
You forgot the asiatic shill threads that start being active around noon in korea. Reliable like swiss clockwork. Wait 4-5 hours from now and you'll see the Koreaposting go in full overdrive.
Germans always had a strong presence on /k/ though and while I've seen a handful of balts, 90% of their posts are from the same schizo that is very pro-Ukraine but also somehow very proud of his "heroic" red army ancestors. Mention red army war crimes in estonia around him and he loses his mind, it's pretty funny.
As for Serbs I've only ever seen one, but maybe I just sorted the others to the Russians.
>when it's around 8 AM in Europe.
i.e. when Europeans are sleeping, commuting or drinking their coffee
If there really is such a corellation, that's just further proof that your poles, serbs and krauts are actualy Yefremov from Malii Guslyar
>when Europeans are sleeping, commuting or drinking their coffee.
Most people wake up at 8 or before, and how does any of that prevent people from posting on PrepHole exactly?
When it's 8 in Europe it's 9 in Moscow and SPB, the same logic applies.
We know with absolute certainty this board is filled with Poles as they even attempted to create and maintain a Poland general thread at the height of Polish rearmament.
>I doubt the tourists are actual poles,
Sounds like you weren't around when they had a poland general here and half the posts were in polish.
They really are poles and literally none of them own a firearm.
These guys cannot comprehend that this is it, this is the Russian military in all its might. It's the same feeling behind the thought that there must be NATO spec ops in the 15-30k range 'fighting on Ukraines behalf' because what else could explain away this blunder of a military operation. Has to be something, anything other than taking accountability.
So based on the final donated stock, Ukraine should have 25 Himars (US) and M270s (UK, Germany, Norway).
Reznikov said they needed at least 100 to go on the offensive.
So do they just need 25 just for defence?
Could be sane overt rebuke to Ukies having launched them at Zaporizhzhia NPP. You know like a sane country trying to limit long term radiation and crazy people would do. Its possible.
haven't been paying much attention but my libreral friend was telling me there isn't much different between russia invading ukraine and the us invading iraq. is there a difference other than russia's incompetency?
>there isn't much different between russia invading ukraine and the us invading iraq
There isn't any difference other than semantics. US had a bogus reason for invading Iraq and Russia has a bogus reason for their invasion. Same difference.
First Gulf War was justified, second wasn't. >b-but it's the same guy
Yeah and he was left in power for a reason, daddy Bush knew that creating a power vacuum in the middle east would lead to a shitshow so left Saddam in on the condition he behaved, which he did.
ironic that H was smarter than W. guess it was a bad idea to turn the middle east on its head unless your goal all along was to create a permanent conflict zone
>guess it was a bad idea to turn the middle east on its head unless your goal all along was to create a permanent conflict zone
Yeah, just awful what happened
Basically the same. >don't like government that is allied closer to your enemies than you >make fake justification >invade >overthrow government >install puppet government
The only difference is Russia can't do the last two because of rampant corruption.
Yes there is a difference, the difference is that Ukraine doesn't have chemical weapons and hasn't been fricking up diplomatically for several years making them a target for a country hellbent on making liberal democracies the only default mode of government. Also, the US wasn't intent on rebuilding the Soviet Union, unlike Putin.
Probably is because they only trust a select few Ukies to run these things so its better to let the trained and experienced spam rockets than let newbs get btfo
Proof that America doesn't want Ukraine to win and just prefer if both sides bleed out.
proof that russia has been unable to destroy the himars ukraine now has
America is fighting to help Ukraine in any way it can. We do care. Ukraine has 20+ launchers now. What it needs right now are HIMARS food; they go through M31 rockets very quickly. We're also giving them anti-radiation missiles now.
Also, you're a vatnik. The "bleed Russia" narrative is Kremlin propaganda, designed to convince Ukrainians that America's help is a cynical anti-Russian ploy. Frick you
Everything is Kremlin propaganda to you frickers. Is it so far fetched that the most powerful country in the world wants to use shitty little eastern European to decimate as much shit of our arch nemesis as possible? If we put in our full effort russia would be driven out by now, but that's not what we want. Proxy wars are our national past time. We're just making sure Russia won't be an issue in the foreseeable future. You should be honored we found you guys competent enough to use our toys.
>Proxy wars are our national past time.
Wrong. Proxy wars are just business, our National Pastime is Nation building. This is the problem with you cynical idiots, you don't actually understand America's geopolitical DNA going back to the fricking 40s. WHY it plays world police, WHY it developed the MIC, the IDEA that that grand pedestal of money props up.
Americans aren't simply greedy like the chinks, they are ARROGANT AND PROUD, and intensely self righteous in viewing the world. They truly believe their way of life is better for everyone. They're a lot like the colonialist bongs in that way, except perhaps even moreso. The average American (and thus their politicians) drinks that Land of the Free kool-aid harder than a hundred Serbs garge Russian cum, and they export democracy and capitalism like a fricking cult.
All of you putting screwing over Russia (hardly a rival superpower anymore and not in any position to get there) over spreading freedom and self determination are putting the cart before the horse.
Black person we are, or at least were colonialist bongs, and suck my 2 inch American wiener, there’s a good fricking reason everyone flees their countries to come here. Theres a damn good reason we essentially are NATOs military, there’s a damn good reason we police the worlds major water ways for trade. Because that koolaid your babbling about is true, we are the hot shit, and frankly, try and stop us.
>inb4 moronic shit about Mexico
>our National Pastime
We don't capitalize words in the Middle of the Sentence like it was the 19th fricking Century, vatBlack person. Go peddle your bullshit somewhere else.
>We don't capitalize words in the Middle of the Sentence like it was the 19th fricking Century, vatBlack person
Sounds like you've never seen Black folk and morons post on facebook.
And even if it was? I'd fricking take it if I was ukraine.
You're moronic if you think states help each other to be chungus avengers or something. There's geopolitical implications for everything where people will use each other to varying degrees of benefit
Bro, this is far more basic than overarching geopolitics. This is spite.
America helps states to make friends. If you think that's a bad idea, you're a fricking moron. America's doctrine of being friendly to other countries and not being an overbearing dick the way Russia & China are is the reason why Russia & China are now hemmed in by countries that are either US allies or on good terms with the US.
Dumb vatnigs don't realize that being c**ts doesn't make you some kind of savvy political genius nor does it make you a manly man, it just makes all your neighbours hate you and not want to be in your sphere of influence.
Yes, the ramification is another strong ally in Eastern Europe and a cucked Russia. It's in US interest for Ukraine to win so it can be rebuilt and be turned into a powerful ally in the region that will forever occupy Russia's military thinking. Russia's already broken by this war, they're revealed as a non-threat for anything other than a nuclear conflict, and can't really contribute to the real point of tension (US v China). The sooner the war and the Russians head home to lick their wounds, the better for everyone in the West, including the Ukrainians.
>and can't really contribute to the real point of tension (US v China)
What if China marches a million men through Russia and invades Yurp?
Chinese demographics are fricking apocalyptic, coupled with their existential need for fuel and food imports?
China is worse than a paper tiger. It's half a billion to a billion dead Chinese in 20 years minimum /without/ Russia tier sanctions in retaliation for Taiwan.
The Russians are still advancing though. The entire premise of
>Ukraine NEEDED to go to war and get its shit kicked in to win the US another committed ally against Russia, only then can the US turn Ukraine's fortunes around and turn them from a corrupt, impoverished, Nazi-ridden shit hole into a slice of Americana on cucked Russia's border
Seems really dumb, if the US was in the business of improving nations so they would become allies out of gratuity, the world would be a peaceful place.
This is happening to Ukraine because the US wanted another Eastern European nation of cannon fodder, the more slavic bodies getting thrown at the Russians at the start of an invasion just gives the West more time to prepare and set up defences for places they actually care about.
You're still acting as though Ukraine/USA started the war. Russia started it.
>The Russians are still advancing though
We don't know if Russians are advancing, they are losing land around Izum and keep lying about advanced near Avdiivka and Bakhmut(muh Pisky/Siversk/Soledar taken 20 times)
>russians are still advancing
No one cares about WW1 tier advancing.
>if the us was in the business
lmao the US spent almost two decades trying to turn sandBlack folk into real people. You're moronic if you think the US wouldn't throw weapons and money at people who want it and won't betray them.
>This is happening to Ukraine because the US wanted another Eastern European nation of cannon fodder
please frick off moron. get it through your skull already that no one in eastern europe likes Russia and we all flock to USA because what is the alternative? the USA doesn't need to do anything to attract people other than not being total subhumans like Russians, that's what you morons fail to understand
Glad somebody said it. They push that "America just wants to prolong the war at the expense of Ukrainians, they could save Ukraine tommorow but it's all about us!" nonstop. If the US just had a boner for Russian blood above all, they'd have focused not on endless nation building, but rather a way to circumvent MAD. No, what the US truly has a boner for is obsessively spreading 'muh democracy', and historically has seen (formerly Soviet) Russia as an opponent of that.
So now we're back in Cold War mode muttering "NOT ONE MORE DOMINO KRUSCHEV" and doing our level best to prevent Ukraine from falling under the yoke of wannabe commie successors. Honestly, to think we'd go through all this trouble just to weaken Russia when they were already doing such an incredible job of weakening themselves.
>No, what the US truly has a boner for is obsessively spreading 'muh democracy'
Well, it helps democracies usually have good relations with the US and buy amerocan products, i bet the US would rather have a democracy i saudi arabia instead of dealing with b***hy autocratic monarchs that throw a hissy fit if the US wants to get out the iranian nuclear mess with a treaty instead of an invasion
FREEDOM IS NON-NEGOTIABLE
> The "bleed Russia" narrative is Kremlin propaganda
Maybe the bleed part.
NATOs main dilemma is the nukes.
Push Russia out too hard and they risk actually pushing the button.
Even if it’s just nuking Ukraine, this would be a terrible loss for the world.
Letting Ukraine fall or bleed out is also stupid because now Russia will be making their following moves on Romania or some similar NATO state.
I think NATO is waiting for the Russians to come into the acceptance stage.
When Russia accepts that this is a war with Ukraine, not a tacticool frolic in the countryside.
After that moment they will try to destroy as much Russian equipment as possible.
Counter battery, ATGMs, Long range strikes on airfields, etc.
You have already kind of seen this part in action.
Then the next phase would be to increase casualties to where the Russian admin starts feeling the pressure back home.
NATO will want to hollow them out as much as possible until the only thing they really have left are the nukes, and by then the Russian administration will be too politically soul-sapped from war exhaustion to actually use them.
Then we can get the bastards not just out of Ukraine, but hopefully out of the fight for good, where they literally are so broken they can’t maintain their nukes.
But long term that’s just what NATO wants.
The reason why HIMARS would stop is because of bottlenecks on the Uke side or it’s just Vatnik rambling.
Because there’s no reason why NATO wouldn’t want to give the Ukes more counter battery.
They actually really want them to counter battery Russian artillery, ammo, and everything else.
>Letting Ukraine fall or bleed out is also stupid because now Russia will be making their following moves on Romania or some similar NATO state.
Russia will never move against NATO, unless they want to balkanize so fricking fast their heads will spin.
they would absolutely try some fricky shit about muh opressed russian minority in the baltics
The US is going to balkanise themselves before this war is over anyway.
Delusion: the post
This. In truth it's a logistics. Also NATO still worrying about muh escalation and so on.
Of course, Russia would take advantage of this by repeating their movie villain tier propaganda ("xaxa, West is abandoning you, Hohols!", etc.).
>we
shut up
>The "bleed Russia" narrative is Kremlin propaganda, designed to convince Ukrainians that America's help is a cynical anti-Russian ploy. Frick you
It is an anti-Russian ploy lmao
You think anybody cares about Ukraine itself? Most people couldn't even locate it on a map last year.
We are the most powerful military force in the history of man. Every fight is our fight. Because what happens over here, matters over there. We don't get to sit one out. Learning to use the tools of modern warfare is the difference between the prospering of your people, and utter destruction. We can't give you freedom. But we can give you the know-how to acquire it. And that, my friends, is worth more than a whole army base of steel. Sure it matters who's got the biggest stick, but it matters a helluva lot more who's swinging it. This is a time for heroes. A time for legends. I don't know what language you speak, I cannot find your country on a map, and I couldn't tell you a damn thing about your culture, but I will defend with my life your right to be free from Russian and Chinese savages. History is written by the victors. Let's get to work.
No the US wants to extend the war so we can get a return on our MIC investment stupid reddit fricktard you think we give a frick about another shade of Russians larping as a literal meme country?
every single reply to this post:
>this is red
>no moron, it's a square
>no moron, it's flat
>no moron, russia wants you to think it's a circle
there can be more than one motivation for it you homosexuals
i never cared. i just want comfy combat footage
>United States only possesses around 400 HIMARS launchers
>PROOF THAT AMERICA DOESN'T WANT UKRAINE TO WIN TRUST THE PLAN Z
Or maybe the US doesn't want to send its entire stockpile because it would otherwise have none available for its own potential war with Russia or China
Or just these, 20 launchers?, are all Ukraine 2º echelon can keep working now with their crews and is pointless keep sending more when they have to train Ukie mantenace crews in another six weapons systems.
Or they are just lying.
>war with Russia
It would not be a real war. It would be as much of a "war" as the Gulf War was.
Proofs of proofs?
>Oh no, America is bleeding us out on this war of aggression we initiated for spurious reasons
Wow. That sounds pretty shitty for you guys. Have you thought about just leaving Ukraine?
Delusional vatnik. How about you let all the ukrainians enter your country and kill yo ass.
This is what the persian empire did with greek city states.
It makes sense. America (or more honestly our political elite) wants Ukraine as a dependent vassel state and Russia as weak as possible without them saying frick it and resorting to nukes.
proof that sending more would be overkill against the vantikoids. not that I care. the only thing I care about is Russia being bled dry
Proof that you are moronic
That's atcualy good due supporting that much HIMARS vehicles without you know haveing years of build infrastructure around them whould be pain but on the plus side atlest no ammo shortage due what good a system if you don't have ammo for it
Also by limiting the amount of units they have, the Ukrainians were be more cautious in how they deploy them.
True but the ammo now is more important and seting up logistics to support more due we can see what happening with 155mm shells due the ukies have the peaces to shoot them but limited ammo so they have to ration it
Source besides Twitter post? I thought we sent 22 already.
This doesn't include M270's, or stuff other countries have also sent
>Get 22
>khokhols sell half to russia
>now only have 12
>get cut off by amerikka
kek, it's unironically over for oinkrainians.
So post some of the ones sold to russia.
If they have 6 why can't they post even just image?
I know you're probably baiting but vatniks are actually moronic enough for me not to be able to tell the difference
Missread the post, it's supposed to be 11 in russian hands; even worse
show 1 in russian hands. stop reading fake articles.. its embarrassing.
damn so are the russians too moronic to use or copy the ones they got or did the ukrainians just sell them shitty ladas with dumpsters in the back and the russians fell for it because they incapable of using flush toilets.
The US doesn’t really care if Ukraine wins or loses so long as Russian soldiers and equipment are getting blown up.
Expect Ukraine to receive more equipment if Russia is able to break the stalemate
The USA also want to see the economies of Europe and Russia to take a hit and their relations destroyed. They were losing the grasp on Europe and especially Germany.
This new Cold War couldn't have come at a better time now that China is ready to go imperial while also becoming a closer trade partner than the US to many Western nations.
We were approaching a global power equilibrium but this is now averted.
Magnificent work the Us think tanks did there.
moronic take. The US would dream of a non-moronic Europe that
1) Acknowledges the threats, and does not become dependent on them
2) Can defend itself
So they can focus on the pacific.
Not when all it's threats (Russia) are likely to be gone in next few decades. Strong Europe without a Russia to keep them in check suddenly becomes a threat itself.
>Europe
>a threat to the US
Black person what
it's just concern trolling, ignore it.
How much of NATO's defense spending is just the US? Granted the EU has more money in manufacturing capabilities but that's the entire EU civilian and defense sector.
I mean the US is essentially NATO as far as real military strength and projection is concerned. The idea that EUROPEANS would turn on America when we essentially run their military and trade routes is so baffling to me it was more shock than anything.
we have deals with them to house our nukes in their countries and we buy stuff their military industrial complexes produce (aren't there more Rheinmetall guns in Abrams than there are in Leopards?)
it's win-win, the US doesn't have imperialist aims, regardless of what the vatniks and CCP project onto the West - if it did Afghanistan and Iraq would be US states.
Russia out, US in, Germany down.
Back then and now.
Your reactions speak for themselves.
The EU as third superpower is something the USA don't want since fellow Westerners aren't easily demonized and can just tilt more towards Asia, isolating the US instead.
Unrivaled world dominance is the goal of the USA, that should be clear as day.
Thank you Ivan.
Too bad USA many, many times tilted toward isolationism and only moronic apes like you and others keep pushing them out of it.
Those isolation attempts worked so well lol
That's a small price to pay when Germany, which leads this push for autonomy, takes the brunt of the economic damage and gets put back in place.
Have you written the other "stop posting" reply too? Awfully engaging attitude you got towards those "holy frick moronic" and "brainless" opinion.
Ok, explain how Germany pushes for autonomy, and how US will punish them ? They made a mistake when it comes gas supply and now they are paying the price. They are still extremely important trade partner to US, all the stuff you are saying just doesn't make any sense.
Germany dominates Europe and has displayed efforts to remove itself from the US sphere of influence, cozying up with Russia and China. Not to the degree of switching sides but to a degree where both sides are played in the own best interest.
Russia was on it's way to become Europe's gas station and mineral dispenser. The Russians don't have the capability to develop or produce revolutionary technology anymore, Europe has. Cheap and secure access to the building blocks of such achievements is the groundwork to excel. Putin of course took this route, because the ability to turn off the lights in Europe gives huge leverage. Sounds dumb on Europe's side but the plan was to make such an action end in mututal destruction, this is happening to a degree right now but media portrays it like Germany will freeze to death while Russia is just fine, which it really isn't, but that's another topic.
>They are still extremely important trade partner to US
We're not talking about developments that will happen within our lifetime, this is not how the strategists think.
You don't want that partner to grow strong enough to be able to make serious demands or run over to your rival who will gladly accept to make you lose on 2 fronts.
In it's current state the "United states of Europe" with access to Russian natural ressources would not be a threat to the USA but who knows what will happen in the next hundred years? History has shown the chaotic nature politics.
Braindead or corrupt idiots (yeah I know) could take seats in the EU parliament and Europe actually COULD become an Asian puppet state or maybe even give a go at world dominance themselves.
It's about minimizing risk to a degree where it's ideally non existant.
Russia, except gas doesn't have much to offer, it is important but as you said it's not as important as Russian propaganda says. Gas was suppose to be a short time solution to allow German economy to go green. I think that you are overestimating German-Russian relationship. Especially when RF actively funds organizations that support divisions in EU. When it comes to China I agree with you, but everyone cooperate with them, you would have to be stupid not to deal with second largest economy in the world.
Second argument also is kinda weak to me, this type of long term planning have so many variables you could come up with infinite amount of scenarios to act upon.
>Russia, except gas doesn't have much to offer
That is wrong and I won't bother educating you on that.
>Second argument also is kinda weak to me...you could come up with infinite amount of scenarios to act upon
So controlling the playing field to limit the amount scenarios you potentially have to act upon is useless?
What are EU states producing in the technology and electronics department? In the early 2000s when you looked in people's pockets and living rooms, European electronics were everywhere but now everything is Asian or American. Maybe it's not the same in military electronics?
>Braindead or corrupt idiots (yeah I know) could take seats [...] maybe even give a go at world dominance themselves.
Funny, that's the exact same thing we think about america since trump became president.
Consumer electronics don't mean much. Europe produces tons of industrial machinery and electronics though - hell, the highest level litography machines for chip producing are made in the netherlands. Military electronics are pretty good as well, though not on american levels.
This is a realist take on international relations which is ultimately self-defeating. If you treat people like your enemy you will MAKE them your enemy.
We should be wary but not paranoid - trust, for as long as trust is maintained. Europe has problems; so does America. We can overcome them together or fail alone.
When you act defensively and against your allies you don't minimize risk, you maximize it. This is the lesson of thousands of years of human society and trying to beat it out of the heads of our moron leaders has taken literally generations of work since the 1800s.
>"but germany and russia proves that I'm right! but China proves that free markets =/= free people!"
I agree. Nothing is guaranteed and we can chalk this up to being just another lesson - there can be no peace between dictators and democracies. The 1990s optimism after the fall of the USSR and the "End of History" theory was wrong. It's good that we learned it now, not later, but let's not carry that lesson too far.
>the "End of History" theory was wrong
The theory still holds. We're just going backwards. Just look at China, Russia, and Iran. A few years ago people hailed China's "Lee Kwan Yew model but nationwide" as something to emulate, but look at them now. Turns out liberal democracy IS indeed the meta of political system (along with its variants).
Based and I do agree to some extent. Ironically it's the people who criticise "End of History" theory who act like history has ended and China could never moderate and Russia can persist indefinitely as a declining kleptocracy.
Russia is steps away from collapse and whatever replaces their system it won't be the same as it was before. Xi getting appointed Dear Leader for Life is the worst thing that could happen to China's autocracy because I bet his leadership won't be so good when he's 80.
The fact that history HASN'T ended is the strongest argument for End of History theory, ironically. Liberal democracy is """backsliding""" (literally only in America, which was never a very good democracy in the first place) but autocracies are far from ascendant. Russia is a regional middle power with nukes; China has massive challenges at home that far exceed the problems in the US economy (which is actually going strong, although it's not delivering for the typical American worker because it's rigged, but even so it's less rigged than China).
Basically we are watching Cold War 2 and there's no reason to expect a different ending. Our shithole enemies will collapse under the weight of their own inadequacy. All we have to do - and we can definitely do it - is outlast them by simply adhering to the basic fundamentals of good government. I'd stake the global order on it.
there's not really a backslide, the oligarchic nature fundamental to capitalism is just more obvious when it has to use the state to keep itself propped up and can no longer afford to play pretend at a democratic process.
given the relative balance of social and political power, this whole thing is poised, IMO, to facilitate an increase in the quality of American democracy - it's just media overplaying fringes and feeding off conflict for attention profits that skews the perception.
by and large with a massive shutdown and a senile circus peanut at the helm the US ship of state made it through just fine; there's enough democracy in the nation's core to keep capitalist oligarchy from truly overriding it (they're literally looking for wunderwaffe right now with AI because they're scared shitless what happens when their cronies shrivel up and die and their kids are too savvy to corporate grift for their strategies to work).
fascism is a tantrum thrown by wealth and power in the face of the democratic will of the people - and it has already failed so utterly that its own adherents are eating each other alive
>the US dominates Europe
FTFY
>both sides are played in the own best interest
First they import millions of shitskins, then shut down their nuclear plants and then make almost entire country dependent on the Russian gas. Is that acting in your own best interest?
"Smart German" is some stupid myth that needs to die.
You sound poor.
When realize the ones who did that are internationalist Russian assets who wanted to create a United States of Europe built on fabian socialist and social democrat lines, yes. Someone's gotta be paying for all those old rotten motherfrickers who are the majority of the German population.
>Those isolation attempts worked so well lol
So you didn't understand what I said. Ok.
Why do Americans love Asians so much? What's wrong with Mother Europe? Don't you think that White countries should help each other out and all that? Also with Canadians and Mexicans (yuck), going so far as planning to integrate the three economies, so that you could quickly switch to a semi-autarky during an emergency. It's like you're planning to fight China or something. That's a bad idea, you know.
Why did the US help Russia in both world wars?
Main export destination for basically all EU countries is US. It makes absolutely no fricking sense for US to damage euro zone economy because it will cause damage to US too. Stop with your brain dead takes.
You need a second superpower to have a third superpower
holy shit this is some serious shizo rumbling right here
concern trolling is a gay tactic and you should have a nice day
Holy frick, this is such moronic opinion, please stop posting.
The US would prefer Euros to not be pussies and actually use their militaries instead relying on the US’s
Lol fed Black folk mad he hit the nail right on the head
>the US would dream of an independent Black person population that doesn't need or want government handouts. They don't want the power and control that comes with being depended on!
Lol, lmao
>I-it's the Americans destroying Russian-European relations! Not the rat-like behavior of murderfricking our neighbors and blowing ourselves up!
Pidorashka.
Russia hasn't been able to destroy one, yet, so why would they need more? They have, what, ~20 and enough people trained to run them 24/7 in 3 8hr shifts? Just keeping them supplied and destroying vatnig depots and C2 is perfect. If, by some chance, vatnigs manage to destroy one, just replace it.
This shit is unreal. Western systems like HIMARS, PzH2000 or Krab operate there for months and ruskies couldn't even get one.
they got 1 krab
They didn't, Krab was destroyed due to mishandling ammunition, they tried to fire faster then system allows.
>tried to fire faster than the system allows
Lmao at Poles. Not so long ago they were coping that Pzh2000 in Ukraine were displaying messages asking for maintenance because they were used too hard, now I know why. It's the same with Poles as it is with Russians, I guess, they always accuse you of their own faults and problems.
They ignored safety procedures. And crew was still saved by automatic fire extinguishers.
Cope. So much for Polish contribution, they're giving Ukrainians delicate and failible equipment.
Christ I feel sorry for those guys. The hell and shame they have gone through for destroying one of the precious Western guns will be worse than being cooked by their own mistake.
I haven't seen these threads, sure there are few polish schizos jerking off to Krabs and shitting on germans, but you are reaching a little bit too far with these comparisons.
10 out of 15 Pzh2000 are out of service due to broken autoloaders.
source: intel celeron Z
https://nitter.cz/TpyxaNews/status/1557391121889873920#m
That's a low number for such a complex system tbh. In Iraq the vehicles broke every day and without a maintenance crew with 200 years of experience shared between them 90% of the vehicles would have been inoperable.
While this is true you forgot to mention that Germany already send spare parts and Kiev said they can get them up and running very soon. And in the last package for Ukraine the also brought 12 gepards with a bunch of ammo, then some mine clearing equipment, a bunch of jammers, a few drones with fitting drone control units and anti-drone equipment
That's to be expected in a war. Equipment breaks down when you use it a lot
I heard from reliable sources, vatnigs have many crabs.
Carlos you frick
with a road mine , of all things. Only proven vatBlack person "victory" in war against modern mobile artillery, and and it was due to random chance rather than actual counterbattery effort,
2 actually, one got hit by a suicide drone yesterday iirc.
Source ?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/wk1lue/lancet_kamikaze_drone_direct_hit_on_a/
Bro that guy crawling away and the other guy tumbling out don’t look ok to me
why is it the vatniks screaming redditor at every post link keep posting reddit links
This is m109 check how back of the Krab looks like.
Literally an M109. Are you people blind or something?
Yes hat's what concussions and people trying to stay low so they don't get hit by shrapnel look like
No they gave the crew a heavy concussion lmao
Krabs still fine.
Proofs?
I also don't get the fixation of the Russians on it. None of these are wunderwaffe type weapons that can't be replaced. Eliminating even 5 of them won't do anything.
They need a propaganda victory, but this is pretty desperate.
Anon, these systems are "wunderwaffe".
The whole propaganda effort from Russians/reformgays is that only a literal handful of these systems exist and they're direct counterparts to something Russia already has.
You cannnot explain to them in plain language that the US alone has something like nearly six hundred HIMARS launchers this year, and has stockpiled rounds in the low 7 or 8 digits (if you count stuff like the old m30 rockets).
Reformer arguments hinge on these more complicated systems being impossible to field in high numbers. You need cheaper, lighter, simpler systems because because these complicated "high tech" systems are too fragile and difficult to produce in the numbers needed to deploy on a meaningful scale. This dichotomy is the most fundamental tenet of the reformers doctrine.
The problem with that argument is that HIMARS is the cheaper, lighter, simpler system.
What is the advance system?
a system can be both an advance and more streamlined
The HIMARS is the lighter, cheaper, simpler and more advanced version of M270 (and just cheaper and lighter than the upgraded M270A2).
They got a few M109s and M777s
None of the fancier artillery though
Two 109's were damaged and one Krab was exploded by crew mistake.
8 documented m777 losses out of ~140 sent by western countries
Those are towed too which means the Russians are really fricking ineffective at counter battery and search and destroy
They got some PzH2ks in a barrage but their armor just shrugged it off.
>sure there are few polish schizos jerking off to Krabs and shitting on germans, but you are reaching a little bit too far with these comparisons.
See
OGpoles on /k/are fine, but there were literally just about 3. Polish tourists on the other hand are one of the worst things that ever happened to /k/.
Ukraine would need over 200 by yesterday to truly win.
if you believe they could handle the logistics for 200 himars systems you are delusional.
They're trying to recover their territory, not invade Moscow.
>so why would they need more?
because currently all the HIMARS are in the hands of the SBU and military reconnaissance forces, they are not readily avaliable to regular army. Which is why they are used to blow up high value targets and not for counterbattery fire or suppresion of enemy positions
handing over say 60-80 more would mean that they could be handed to the army and used as regular artillery
I counted
>4+2 destroyed
>2 taken
>1 sell on black market
surely at least one of those has been photographed?
looks like number of HIMARS reached it's resupply ability. Still have no idea why Poland needs fricking five hundred of them
500 HIMARS as a non-nuclear detterent. Imagine a salvo of 500 ATACMS hitting bases all along western Russian border
Poland wants to be Europe's premier military power rather than just have to "hold" russia in the event of a war. They don't want to be in the position Ukraine is. They want to Red Rover clothesline the Russians the second they make a play for Eastern Europe rather than just try to hold them off while the US/France/UK/Italy/Spain get off their ass to help
It's not so crazy when you have a dangerous neighbor. South Korea has almost 600 similar systems in use.
>M270 but on wheels
What's the point?
>Improved Mobility
>No loss to firepower
why not? when you don't need to fit things into a C-130 they can be heavy as frick
25t vs 17t
Tracks = best short-range mobility because they cross mud, ditches, rubble etc.
Wheels = best medium-range mobility because they get good milage & speed. Also they're cheaper to maintain.
When your weapon's range is long enough you don't need to go through shitty terrain because you can fire from tons of different accessible options (most of the time).
Once you realise that the other advantages of wheels become insurmountable.
Hence ukr in this war driving the HIMARS along comfy highways and firing staright from the road
>they gave the windows angry eyebrows
>for no reason
lmao
500 would destroy Kaliningrad off the bat if the Russians start getting uppity.
They intend to fire them off all at once if war starts. 500 HIMARS will give any attacker enough pause that they will be able to muster a counter-attack even if caught pretty much unaware.
>3000 GMLRS-ER raining hell on Russian bases
you can throw in some ATACMS but god damn, imagine what all those would do to Russian air bases, armories, ammo depots and AA sites
Ukraine only needed 10 or so HRIM-2 or ATACMS to wipe out half of that Crimean air base
Poland basically replaced West German's role in NATO
OVERMATCH
Well, they are neighbors of fricking Ukraine. And as we now see it may be scary.
Poland wants to fricking blow up every last city in Russia in case of invasion
god fricking bless my country and whatever moderate who approved of this
It's conventional MAD, imagine every power plant, train station, port and gas plant catching fire in the first 30 minutes of war with Poland.
do they even need more himars? clearly ammo is the limiting factor
I think they do but you can supply only certain amount of ammo in those conditions.
Technically the ammo is send to russian occupied territories of Ukraine.
Biden's administration sends exactly enough aid to keep us in the fight but not nearly enough to let us take our land back.
Beggars can't be choosers, but it's kind of a dickhead strategy. The US could end this war in a matter of weeks by tipping the scales with its little finger, but they choose not to. Sad!
Sorry Ukiebro it's a deliberate strategy to let Putin continue to bleed, to the point either his admin collapses or they exhaust their military so much they never pose a threat to Europe again. If they tap out too soon they could regather strength. We want them crippled for the next generation or two.
PS I hope you get ATACMS soon to help get back Crimea, good luck
A stupid strategy that will backfire and will completely destroy Ukraine.
Whether it destroys Ukraine or not is of lesser importance. What matters is that it will kill Russia. Maybe not immidiately, but over 10 years. Just like afgan war killed USSR.
It will make Russia a Chinese vassal and turbocharge China.
Russia being knocked out means we can dedicate 100% of our attention to China and be confident that the european nato powers can handle Russia if ww3 happens. China wont be viewing Russia as a reliable military partner again after this, if they cant even take Ukraine what hope did the Russians have against France or the UK or even the Italians/Spanish? At best, Russia is their gas pump.
>It will make Russia a Chinese vassal and turbocharge China.
EU will work with US against China when the Russia problem has been solved.
This is a good time to make friends and enemies for the future, everyone knows this.
It makes totals sense actually. Because quick military defeat would allow Russia to save their industry, their economy and keep the educated professionals on. But 2-3 years long middle scale conflict like right now would be much more disastrous for Russia, considering the sanctions have only really stared to bite them just now.
And for Ukrainians... Well, they'll have to pay with their blood for the European future the desire so much.
Agree, I think it's a big part of it, the rational Realpolitik one. The libtard part is to avoid humiliating Putin too much because in their opinion it could lead to unpredictable consequences.
No, putin should be utterly and completely annihilated. But slowly, so he wouldn't realize it. Bait him into thinking he is winning and is just one step away from it but this step never occurs
>It makes totals sense actually. Because quick military defeat would allow Russia to save their industry, their economy and keep the educated professionals on. But 2-3 years long middle scale conflict like right now would be much more disastrous for Russia, considering the sanctions have only really stared to bite them just now.
This. It's probably not good for ukrainians but this will ruin the Putin regime and the future of Russia.
It's already ruined in some respect, nobody will invest there for decades as they nationalized foreign companies' property. This is on top of the fact that it's hard to even set anything up in russia because of corruption issues.
Some russians say 30 years worth of investments are gone because of this...
Yeah, our government has been infiltrated by communists.
Ukraine is getting just enough aid in order to pacify the average joe, so as to not make him suspect something might be going on behind the curtains, but in reality our politicians are all compromised so they'll never give your country our full support.
>>Yeah, our government has been infiltrated by communists.
you mean israelites?
>but they choose not to
The goal is to drain Russia's military and ruin its economy.
Or it's just a logistic issue.
Ukraine cannot handle more than X, and not more than Y operators can be trained at the same time.
>muh logistics
We could stomp russia off the face of this earth for good if we weren't riddled with sympathizers and panzy homosexuals like you.
t. William S. Lind
1. You can't take everything at once.
2. We can't give everything at once.
3. A slow escalation is preferred so the Russians don't lose their minds and start nuking everything.
4. We don't want to show off all of our toys if we don't have to.
>The US could end this war in a matter of weeks by tipping the scales with its little finger
What wonder waffle would win war within weeks?
I couldn't resist eight w-words in a row. 🙂
Seriously, though. Short of UKRAINE BIOLABS GIVEN SLAV-KILLING DISEASES that don't exist, what do you think would result in instant Ukrainian victory?
A dozen /k/atana wielders promised Ukrainian waifus
You don't throw a frog in boiling water. You slowly raise the temperature
This war was designed to create a wasteland/agricultural area for the future [[[Khazarian empire]]]. Ending war would hold the plan Anon. Ukraine must be incinerated and all surrounding areas reduced to such a point they do not intrude (this includes both Russia and western Europe.)
Look at the cheap glavset hooker with its concern trolling. Truly a revolting race of subhumans.
Uk announced three more m270 yesterday
blessed bongs
How many m270s does Ukraine have? How does it compare to HIMARS?
two HIMARS in one package, also slower. IDK about it's reloading speed
Nice. Is it as accurate as HIMARS? If so then Ukraine will be fine. They need ATACMS. I wouldn't be surprised if Lockheed glowies were secretly testing PRISM with Ukraines HIMARS
Himars is just the light way to deliver munitions created for the m270 dude.
The "HI" just stands for high mobility.
>Is it as accurate as HIMARS?
New M270 models have the same fire control systems as HIMARS.
Same electronics and ammo on a different vehicle, basically.
The only difrance is that it's heavier and slower but it does have double the load and it's tracked so it can get where M142 can't
Same basic system. M270 is on tracks and has double the launcher tubes, but is slower to deploy and redeploy
>How does it compare to HIMARS
it's slower, tracked, more armored and has double the rockets though i heard controlling electronics might be a slightly older than himars
himars is better for driving down the road, unloading and getting the frick out
m270 should be better when there's no road or it's shit
So would it be better to use ATACMS with the slower m270, so it can be further from harm and have more time to escape using longer range missiles, and the shorter range missiles with the HIMARS since it can escape much quicker?
They're both only reachable for the russians only by the means of sending choppers/jets. The range rules out counter-battery fire.
with atacms you'll probably will want to use range as much as you can, so the m270 ability to track across rough terrain might offer some advantage in getting those few km that can turn something unreachable into a target, and as a bonus it can carry two of them.
though allegedly missiles for those systems are blocked from striking russian soil, so it could be a nothinburger
they shoot the same shit, so yes
himars is literally half of m270 put on truck
>How many m270s does Ukraine have?
6 Three British and three German, though I'm not sure the Germans have delivered them yet or not
Brits aren't saying how many more additional ones are going, but they only have 40 of them
The Brits are also refurbing the older norway ones or someone like that and handing the newer ones over right away
Based Britain.
More cigarettes of death for vatBlack folk.
How I sleep knowing Russia has failed to destroy even a single HIMARS vehicle (FSB would pay millions for an undeniable HD photo of a burnt out HIMARS husk)
Can someone explain to me why this fricking war is still ongoing? I don't want propaganda shilling from either side, it's just weird to me that a more powerful country like Russia with a much larger military can't get shit done. I remember when this war started and everyone was like "this will be over soon bro, Ukraine doesn't stand a chance, they'll get crushed in a month or something"
russia doesn't have the ability to conduct maneuver warfare against Ukraine without severe losses like those at the start of the war and has thus fallen into WW1 tier positional and attritional warfare
>why this fricking war is still ongoing?
Piss poor plan on Russia's part. Keep in mind, the Ukies have been training for this exact scenario for 8 years, when Russia took parts of eastern Ukraine and Crimea.
>Keep in mind, the Ukies have been training for this exact scenario for 8 years
LOL no we haven't. In fact Zelensky dismantled most of our new weapon programs and tried to do everything to appease Putin while staying in power. It was Chamberlain-tier and it was in Ukraine.
In truth Ukraine was only prepared for a limited conflict in the East, nothing more than that.
They also removed mines from the south near Crimea, basically letting Russia into Ukraine.
Yeah, his denial of refusing to mobilize even though US intelligence was adamant that invasion was coming was a big L
Tbh everyone but the UK seemed to think we were being hyperbolic, and the Chinese seemed to be insulted when we told them that Russia would do it without warning them and that we were just stirring trouble.
The lesson is that if UK HUMINT and US ELINT/SIGINT/SATINT are all telling the same story you should probably listen
Before the war, everyone assumed Russia's military wasn't lead by thieves and morons exclusively, and that at least 50% of Russian boasting was rooted in reality.
Lack of political will in Kremlin to declare war and mobilize army, they still operate under basically peace time conditions. Main problem is that a lot of russian soldiers simply cancel their contracts without any consequences and just go home. Which means that RF lacks manpower to make any difference at the battlefield.
You know how in vidya a t90M is roughly equivalent to an M1A2 sepv3 Abrams, and how their Mi-28 helos are great, and how their rocket arty is super accurate and everywhere, and how every BMP is a BMP3 with all the upgrades?
Turns out that wasnt quite true
russia has actually fallen for their own russia stronk propaganda and also underestimated just how much their former colonies don't want to return
Because attacking is way way harder than defending, specially in urban enviroments. Paired with the fact that Russian numbers were largely an illussion, given there was no proper preparation to get the old soviet rustbuckets going before the shooting started, rather than sitting on a field making up a number.
Russia also was too greedy with trying to take Kiev, and after being defeated, it emboldened the Ukies and their allies to set as an objective to retake all the land taken by the russians in the long term.
Basically, by seeing the russian failure, Ukraine feels they can turn things back instead of suing for peace, and by setting it's goals too high, suing for peace right now for russia would be seen as a local failure.
Russia started the war with the wrong impression, though it was, fair to them, the impression most of the world had. They assumed they didn't have to declare full war/mobilization since the idea was they'd send in VDV, scare out the civilian government, and establish a puppet state. Remember the offer even the US made to Zelensky to extract him early on.
Russia was flat-footed against the actual resistance the Ukies put up. It was more than what a state 'police action' could defeat. And now Russia's in the creek because they're in a catch-22. They can't defeat the Ukrainians acting as the free world's proxy, but domestically they can't go to a full war footing, because it would destroy the 'Russia stronk' propaganda.
If Russia can't defeat the Ukrainians by Spring '23, Putin will be killed and made the scapegoat. The reason I say Spring is because the Winter SHOULD benefit the Russians, at least historically. That will be the biggest litmus test as to the capability of the Russians to ultimately defeat the Ukies with their current level of military deployment.
>Winter SHOULD benefit the Russians, at least historically
Historically, winter has benefitted Russians repelling invasions, not conducting them
>I say Spring is because the Winter SHOULD benefit the Russians, at least historically
[ X ] DOUBT
Although, I generally agree with you. But Allies of Ukraine are well-positioned and well-experienced to provide all sorts of Winter gear and tactics. This isn't the classical Russia Winter retreat & defense. Supply lines aren't going to be empty or stretched for Ukraine, they're being well-stocked up for the Winter already.
Russian supply lines seem to already be anemic. Can't see any improvement due in that any time soon. Or, really, at all.
because Putin needs more time to assess the state of his military and see if they can learn to fight properly; he now sees he needs to invest in certain areas and make further reforms to the officer corps and recruitment system.
It will end when Russia has all of the Donetsk reason as they have stated multiple times. That will probably happen by Christmas since Ukraine has hardly any good soldiers left while Russia's soldiers are just getting warmed up and off the sidelines.
>Russia's soldiers are just getting warmed up and off the sidelines
>p-p-please don't draft dodge
Don't worry, if you sign up we'll put you into the same unit with rapists and murders, then if you have second thoughts about being sent on a suicidal charge (which Russian law allows you to refuse excep during actual war), we'll incarcerate, torture and starrve you until you reconsider.
>we'll incarcerate, torture and starrve you until you
You weren't supposed to leak the body cam footage...
I was referring to the contract soldiers that were illegaly imprisoned by their officers. It was all over the (government banned) news in Russia a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was obvious I was talking about Russia.
I was just talking about Russian society in general where they'll break your bones and shove things up your for a confession for making graffiti.
Damn, I thought the Russian military was the only part of their society that got the privilege of being tied down and pissed in the face.
completely insane that russian soldiers are free to technically disobey orders if they aren't "at war." Surprising that their army functions at all
Not "disobey orders" but free to refuse deployment abroad and get discharged.
Similar to how it's supposedly illegal to deploy conscripts into combat all, except during war or in defense of the country (they still deployed a massive ammount of conscripts to Ukraine).
What the frick is up with this larp that Russia is only using 0.02% of it's power? This is not an anime where a character wants a real fight so they're deliberately holding back until they dramatically reveal that they actually have a power level of six gorillion. Russia was just fricking lying about it's military capabilities and they're an Africa-tier military.
Maybe they really want to go back to them pulling people off the streets from major cities then blindfolding them and having them be in a warzone the next day so they can be at their "full power".
Ah yeah the tactic that didn't fricking work and Russians only won WW2 because they stopped being morons and put generals with an actual sense of strategy in command.
they never stopped being morons they just got gibs from the US and UK
Just to remind you Puccia is using 85% of their whole armed forces and is currently in a standstill.
More untrained churkas won't do any diference but Monke is welcome to try it.
It's been half a year. That should have been figured out before the invasion.
Soldiers' motivation also factors into it. Ukrainians are fighting for their lives, homes, and families, Russians are fighting for what exactly?
A couple of factors
>Putin never declaired war limiting the force that could be sent
>insane corruption leading the Kremlin to beleive the smaller force was well trained / equipped which it wasn't
>Ukraine has spent 8 years getting ready for this
>glowies called it perfectly and Ukraine got plently of warning about exact locations and dates
>plently of high moral volenteers in Ukraine
>plenty of conscripts that didn't even know they were invading for the Russians
>mass arming of the general population by Ukraine, even without signing up they'll give you an AK and ammo
These are the factors that made Ukraine hold out more than a month in the first place. Once they had held out that long NATO started to realize they might actually hold on and this would be a great proxy war to destroy Russia with. Since then we have seen huge amounts of arms and equipment flowing into Ukraine, like any proxy war it's a great place to test your weapons agaisnt a "near peer" without the bad PR of going to war yourself.
"Russia STRONK" is western propaganda, to get public support to finance the MIC.
>The "russia stronk" meme is "western" propaganda
Good one
Gotta make space on the shipments for the ATACMS rockets 😉
I wish I was a HIMAR rocket launched at some ammo depot or barracks and as I descended I could see the panicked faces of vatniks fruitlessly attempting to run to save their pitiful lives only to get blown up along with their military hardware.
Then I get reincarnated as another HIMAR rocket.
wtf i love the military industrial complex
Ooops, no more CAESARs for wienerhole piggerino.
Precision Krasnopol shells outgun western junk.
Full humiliation: https://files.catbox.moe/zdnzuj.mp4
>144p video
>zoom in on random artillery(?)
>cut away
>different vehicle is on fire
Damn, I guess Russians really are allowed to eat McDonald's
vehicle is on fire
there is no vehicle on fire, it's just from there the second missile hit. The first shot is a complete miss, the second lands a lot closer but it's just the fire from where it landed.
shouldn't caesar gun and cab be longer?
Those are not CAESARs.
Oh nooo, Pascal, send another one in the next weapons shipment, si vous plait!!
We.
Can.
Make.
More.
no direct hit, no damage on caesars visible
lmfao
the humiliation is the absolute state of you vatnikerinos foaming at the mouth over destroyed western equipment that isn't even destroyed. you've truly ran out of shit to show, huh? not even villages these days
why do you dorks feel the need to pick a "side" instead of enjoying this comfy war that we get to witness? do you really have such a lack of identity that you must align yourself with idiot russians or idiot ukranians in order to feel something?
just sit back and enjoy the reports of new and old equipment and doctrines being field tested thousands of miles away from your home in a piece of the world no one gives a flying frick about. the outcome of this little war will hold no significance in your lives unless you actually live in the region.
god she's beautiful i'm going to agree with everything you said because she's so beautiful.
Why you used an american woman for your both sides propaganda, Ivan?
you already asked the same question yesterday
Because Russians and Vatnik shills have shat up /k/ and other boards for over a decade. This has been explained time and time again. Furthermore /k/ by and large supports the underdog and the guy getting attacked. The fact it is Russia doing it just makes it obvious people will support Ukraine. Plus the morons who support Russia are absolute morons who support Russia for the dumbest reasons and their denial of evidence just adds to that.
That or they're actually over 20 and know what Russia is like geopolitically and are happy to see them get stomped.
I feel like if armatard wouldn't be universally hated after years of schizoposting there'd be a less clear anti-Russian front on /k/.
Who knew a single poster could turn ab entire board against a whole country? Lmao
Makes me wonder if krabtard really is just a Russian agent trying to make the board hate poles through his daily spergouts.
>krabtard
The polak who starts threads to shit on german MIC and then gets seething germans to argue with him?
I love those
>why do you dorks feel the need to pick a "side"
It's pretty easy chosing a side when the aggressor has made threats against your country.
burgermutt nazi israelites finally recognizing that POCCIA cannot lose their crusade to save the white race and end leftist globohomosexual by restoring the soviet union
it is finally OVER for THE ukraine, the west is cutting their losses. just a few short weeks before unconditional surrender
I agree the buryats and chechens need the land formerly known as the ukraine for lebensraum, to save the white race
This isn't even true. This only refers to the latest drawdown package.
I think they need an aircraft carrier, lets parachute one down to them! Yeah Yeah Thats The Ticket
Good, that will teach the Ukies the concept of unit preservation, unlike the Cuckniks who don't have any because they are under the delusion that they have unlimited stockpiles of tanks and BMPs somewhere in Siberia.
literally Ukraine has to do to end this war is unconditionally surrender. putin has already committed himself politically so he can't pull the troops back. only ukraine can stop this war. i urge Zelenskyy to do the right thing and end this meaningless bloodshed.
>i urge Zelenskyy
I urge you to put a bullet through your skull
demoralized
Z
A bloo bloo
>I really don't want to leave Crimea. It's so cool here. I'm used to it. It's like we were at home here.
Check out the remix
https://twitter.com/i/status/1557621932429819907
literally Russia has to do to end this war is unconditionally surrender. zelensky has already committed himself politically so he can't pull the troops back. only russia can stop this war. i urge Putin to do the right thing and end this meaningless bloodshed.
Dave from Nevдda фblast here, I am 100% agree
John from Ohio oblast here, the hamburger and hotdog prices are skyrocketing.I can't drive my truck anymore. I urge Mr. Biden to stop sending weapons to Ukraine and focus on our problems
Sam from Montana oblast here. I am unable to fuel my large vehicle of recreation and my round american wife can no longer afford the feed for my rabbits due to our lack of gas from russia. How can I be expected to travel from state to state, where we don't require permits, this season of merry holidays? We must stop providing Ukraine with weapons and focus our resources on our oblasts instead.
Thank you and God Bless
- Sam from Montana Oblast.
>looking for israelites to step into the oven voluntarily, to expedite things
Da, I agree fellow Amerikanski tovarisch. Supporting warmonger HATO and khokhol nazi ukrop regime cost too many dollar we could spend here in US of A on baseball and hamburger sandwiches
It would be dumb to send more HIMARS than they can logistically support
Besides, russia hasnt hit a single one of the.
They need to send the bigger ammo to them, they'll need it if the attack Kherson.
Been wondering for a while now, whatever happened to the old M270s that the HIMARS replaced? They use the same ammo, if there's still depots full of M270s they should just ship those out.
The HIMARS didn't replace it, they're all in service still.
>whatever happened to the old M270
They're getting upgraded to M270A2s.
>Lockheed Martin, in partnership with the Red River Army Depot, is modernizing M270 with a brand new 600 horsepower engine, an Improved Armored Cab, and Common Fire Control System (CFCS). This upgrade provides compatibility with future munitions like the Extended-Range GMLRS and the Precision Strike Missile (PrSM). The complete restoration ensures the M270-series launcher remains highly effective and reliable to serve the U.S. Army and partner nations through 2050.
https://news.lockheedmartin.com/built-in-arkansas-lockheed-martin-delivers-first-modernized-m270a2-to-us-army
DOD watching ammo expenditure is good wtf
Each HIMARS is a gate to hell, right now there are over 16 gates to hell in Ukraine and as long as the ammo is flowing the gates shall remain open. Say Russia manages to take out a few HIMARS well the US has hundreds to replenish what Ukraine needs and re-open the gates again.
US probably realized oinkrainians were selling HIMARS to Rossiya and cut them off. No more rockets for piggy nazi's. /k/ is sure going to be quiet after rossiya advances on donbass yet again.
hohol supporters despise Americans and are too cowardly to actually volunteer
, ammo is the expensive part.
Not really, HIMARS units are GPS/inertial nav semi-guided missiles with DPICM or unitary explosive warheads, not the insanely expensive ATACMS with 300km range.
Picture: something they should dust off for Ukraine, the XM130 SLUFAE (Surface-Launched Fuel-Air Explosive). Based off the old MGM-52 Lance launcher chassis, design intent was taking out minefields by detonating APERS and pressure-sensitive anti-vehicle mines with blast overpressure. Needs some tweaks for range, they were basically BLU-73/Bs with Zuni rocket motors stuck to the ends, for engineer purposes a range of 150m was deemed good enough. Would make one hell of an artillery system if you could extend that.
>960 rounds per hour.
I very, VERY highly doubt it takes only 6 minutes to reload a HIMARS and launch a new salvo.
It takes 5 minutes to real HIMARS
>post-80s loading technology is thoroughly alien to some people
I doubt the tourists are actual poles, considering they have the same language patterns as the guys who spam about "pooland". They're just here to /misc/ up the board.
Poles, Serbs, Balts, Krauts. You name them.
Fact is, Ukraine topics pop up and older ones become active again when it's around 8 AM in Europe.
The number of Polish shill threads are an indication we have a lot of them here.
You forgot the asiatic shill threads that start being active around noon in korea. Reliable like swiss clockwork. Wait 4-5 hours from now and you'll see the Koreaposting go in full overdrive.
Germans always had a strong presence on /k/ though and while I've seen a handful of balts, 90% of their posts are from the same schizo that is very pro-Ukraine but also somehow very proud of his "heroic" red army ancestors. Mention red army war crimes in estonia around him and he loses his mind, it's pretty funny.
As for Serbs I've only ever seen one, but maybe I just sorted the others to the Russians.
>when it's around 8 AM in Europe.
i.e. when Europeans are sleeping, commuting or drinking their coffee
If there really is such a corellation, that's just further proof that your poles, serbs and krauts are actualy Yefremov from Malii Guslyar
>when Europeans are sleeping, commuting or drinking their coffee.
Most people wake up at 8 or before, and how does any of that prevent people from posting on PrepHole exactly?
>Most people wake up at 8 or before
You have to go back to normietown
>"I'm a slob"
Yes, I agree.
When it's 8 in Europe it's 9 in Moscow and SPB, the same logic applies.
We know with absolute certainty this board is filled with Poles as they even attempted to create and maintain a Poland general thread at the height of Polish rearmament.
>I doubt the tourists are actual poles,
Sounds like you weren't around when they had a poland general here and half the posts were in polish.
They really are poles and literally none of them own a firearm.
>no more HIMARS from america
>M270s and MARS from germany still coming though
its ok ivan
So, did anyone bother to verify this, or are people just arguing in circles about a twitter screenshot?
reminder Russia has hundreds of Iranian drones on their way which are based on captured US technology.
And don't forget the thousands of African, Syrian, and North Koreans troops. They'll get there eventually.
Suddenly Sefrevopol and invader deports are being hit?
Now we laugh, ha ha ha.
If God is willing we should send all our m270s, no because we don't need them, only because UA is dropping enemies for us for our inevitable next war.
These guys cannot comprehend that this is it, this is the Russian military in all its might. It's the same feeling behind the thought that there must be NATO spec ops in the 15-30k range 'fighting on Ukraines behalf' because what else could explain away this blunder of a military operation. Has to be something, anything other than taking accountability.
How else are you going to explain people that think having an air base explode is just a normal occurrence and won't have any lasting effects.
Hell Russians could explode and they'd struggle to even process such a thing because propaganda, lol.
well yeah you need ammo don't you
So based on the final donated stock, Ukraine should have 25 Himars (US) and M270s (UK, Germany, Norway).
Reznikov said they needed at least 100 to go on the offensive.
So do they just need 25 just for defence?
Could be sane overt rebuke to Ukies having launched them at Zaporizhzhia NPP. You know like a sane country trying to limit long term radiation and crazy people would do. Its possible.
>Zaporizhzhia
I'm looking forward to working there after Russia fricks off.
I swear to god this board has some of the most braindead moron takes imaginable
actual cancer discussing this war without some fricktard felating israelitekraine or Russia
haven't been paying much attention but my libreral friend was telling me there isn't much different between russia invading ukraine and the us invading iraq. is there a difference other than russia's incompetency?
The Americans didn't have permission from their spouses to rape
>there isn't much different between russia invading ukraine and the us invading iraq
There isn't any difference other than semantics. US had a bogus reason for invading Iraq and Russia has a bogus reason for their invasion. Same difference.
Did Ukraine invade Kuwait ad start fricky wucky with oil previous to the conflict?
First Gulf War was justified, second wasn't.
>b-but it's the same guy
Yeah and he was left in power for a reason, daddy Bush knew that creating a power vacuum in the middle east would lead to a shitshow so left Saddam in on the condition he behaved, which he did.
ironic that H was smarter than W. guess it was a bad idea to turn the middle east on its head unless your goal all along was to create a permanent conflict zone
>guess it was a bad idea to turn the middle east on its head unless your goal all along was to create a permanent conflict zone
Yeah, just awful what happened
Basically the same.
>don't like government that is allied closer to your enemies than you
>make fake justification
>invade
>overthrow government
>install puppet government
The only difference is Russia can't do the last two because of rampant corruption.
Yes there is a difference, the difference is that Ukraine doesn't have chemical weapons and hasn't been fricking up diplomatically for several years making them a target for a country hellbent on making liberal democracies the only default mode of government. Also, the US wasn't intent on rebuilding the Soviet Union, unlike Putin.
You should get better friends.
Probably is because they only trust a select few Ukies to run these things so its better to let the trained and experienced spam rockets than let newbs get btfo
who here /teamukraine/ vs /teamrussia/?