Ninja worked in teams and many samurai would don the all black of the ninja to do covert ops that would not be traced back to their Daimyo. The story book idea of the lone ninja or outcast criminal ninja is rare. Often ninja were just samurai on black bag missions.
This. Medieval Japan was super concerned with face, so using 'underhanded' methods was dishonorabu, even though pretty much everybody knew that everybody else used them. So you didn't want some rando to do the sekrit sqwerl stuff, lest he blab in the nearest izakaya that he was a high-speed, low-drag opr8r. You'd use your family's retainers, who had as much to lose as you did (what with them also being samurai), if they loosened their tongues too much.
>Who was better?
Considering the Hashashin were a highly trained professional order of assassins, and ninja were a blanket term that included untrained peasant spies doing reconnaissance, samurai with a long family tradition of assassination, sabotage, and general insurgency, and everyone in between, I'd say the arabs win this round.
>Considering the Hashashin were a highly trained professional order of assassins
The Hashashin were an order of highly addicted (hence the name) hash junkies/religious nutjobs who thought they would go to heaven when they were killed during an assassination mission.
That doesn't mean they weren't trained but you make it sound they were an Assassins Creed-tier order.
In small towns where everyone knows everyone, an outsider will stand out. But in a world with no cameras and poor lighting at night, there are lots of hideout opportunities and ways to infiltrate an undermanned compound unseen.
Myth and fiction mostly. Japan had people doing recon, sabotage and such as much as anyone else of course, but not some special clans or families of it. The black garb is simply Edo period theatre stagehand outfits, ie visual shorthand for "don't see this guy, he's not part of the play" and basically all of the ninja weapons and tools are pure fabrication. (Yeah, let's give our super secret spies and assassins a very distinctive and specific sword style, that's a great idea.)
I'm sure it's presented as such in some piece of fiction, but I've never heard that specific bit before.
It is a shorter straight sword with one edge, a large square handguard to step on when jumping over the wall, and extra long sling wrapped on the sheath to retrieve the sword once over the wall, also used for tripping, and the sheath contain breathing tubes.
Ninja myths aside, nips have specialized tools for absolutely everything. I dont doubt whichever samurai were running around with their dress legs tied off had a rope ladder or saw kit handy.
from what I have gathered about ninjas (not an authority by any means, but I like learning about lots of shit), but ninjas were basically spies, assasins, etc... but considering that such tactics are considered "dishonorable", accusing some lord of having ninjas was extremely disrespectful, and therefore.... "Ninjas aren't real"
I trained in traditional Ninjutsu and it is all real including the weapons. The Ninjato is a specific tool and it does things the Katana can not. There are countless styles of Japanese swords for countless uses. Samurai are also ninja, they both use the same basic weapons and techniques. Both were professional soldiers and many were NOT FULL TIME NINJA!
the US relied on line infantry and cannons to win battle as much as anyone else. They just had more than the usual of people who were skilled skirmisher in their rank.
and George Washington was uniquely skilled at retreat in good order and preserving his army.
Insurgency is as old as civilization. Most wars at the dawn of civilization were not conventional wars with other established nations or city-states. A lot of it was dealing with barbarians and civil uprisings, which is what we call unconventional warfare today. Guerilla warfare and tribal warfare are the same thing. From Genghis Khan to George Washington.
Everything I've read about their training just looks like modern spec ops. So either they were the original spec ops or people are making shit up to pretend they were.
They were the original insurgents. Just peasant farmers killing people.
Ninja worked in teams and many samurai would don the all black of the ninja to do covert ops that would not be traced back to their Daimyo. The story book idea of the lone ninja or outcast criminal ninja is rare. Often ninja were just samurai on black bag missions.
110% false
This. Medieval Japan was super concerned with face, so using 'underhanded' methods was dishonorabu, even though pretty much everybody knew that everybody else used them. So you didn't want some rando to do the sekrit sqwerl stuff, lest he blab in the nearest izakaya that he was a high-speed, low-drag opr8r. You'd use your family's retainers, who had as much to lose as you did (what with them also being samurai), if they loosened their tongues too much.
So everyone's always going on about Knights vs Samurai but how about Ninja vs. Hashashin? Who was better?
>Who was better?
Considering the Hashashin were a highly trained professional order of assassins, and ninja were a blanket term that included untrained peasant spies doing reconnaissance, samurai with a long family tradition of assassination, sabotage, and general insurgency, and everyone in between, I'd say the arabs win this round.
>Next time on Deadliest Warrior! Who wins, a cannibal with a puffer fish on a palm rope? Or a Hindu warrior with a fucking slinky sword?
>Considering the Hashashin were a highly trained professional order of assassins
The Hashashin were an order of highly addicted (hence the name) hash junkies/religious nutjobs who thought they would go to heaven when they were killed during an assassination mission.
That doesn't mean they weren't trained but you make it sound they were an Assassins Creed-tier order.
Overrated with great lore around them.
There is only so much a single person can do sneaking around in enemy territory.
Given the overall lack of documentation, they were either extremely efficient and left no trace of their exploits, or they're a meme.
In small towns where everyone knows everyone, an outsider will stand out. But in a world with no cameras and poor lighting at night, there are lots of hideout opportunities and ways to infiltrate an undermanned compound unseen.
Glowie of their time.
Myth and fiction mostly. Japan had people doing recon, sabotage and such as much as anyone else of course, but not some special clans or families of it. The black garb is simply Edo period theatre stagehand outfits, ie visual shorthand for "don't see this guy, he's not part of the play" and basically all of the ninja weapons and tools are pure fabrication. (Yeah, let's give our super secret spies and assassins a very distinctive and specific sword style, that's a great idea.)
Not that I'm arguing it was real or not, but I understood the "Ninjato" was "supposed" to be a shitty peasant made sword, just a big iron rectangle.
I'm sure it's presented as such in some piece of fiction, but I've never heard that specific bit before.
It is a shorter straight sword with one edge, a large square handguard to step on when jumping over the wall, and extra long sling wrapped on the sheath to retrieve the sword once over the wall, also used for tripping, and the sheath contain breathing tubes.
Ninja myths aside, nips have specialized tools for absolutely everything. I dont doubt whichever samurai were running around with their dress legs tied off had a rope ladder or saw kit handy.
from what I have gathered about ninjas (not an authority by any means, but I like learning about lots of shit), but ninjas were basically spies, assasins, etc... but considering that such tactics are considered "dishonorable", accusing some lord of having ninjas was extremely disrespectful, and therefore.... "Ninjas aren't real"
but what do I know?
I trained in traditional Ninjutsu and it is all real including the weapons. The Ninjato is a specific tool and it does things the Katana can not. There are countless styles of Japanese swords for countless uses. Samurai are also ninja, they both use the same basic weapons and techniques. Both were professional soldiers and many were NOT FULL TIME NINJA!
t. Gecko45
>spies and guerillas
They are over glorified meme
Europe had same kind of people but I guess europeans didn't have to improvise weapons as much
The USA was formed out of a guerilla insurgency and it is the greatest nation in human history
>The USA was formed out of a guerilla insurgency
the US relied on line infantry and cannons to win battle as much as anyone else. They just had more than the usual of people who were skilled skirmisher in their rank.
and George Washington was uniquely skilled at retreat in good order and preserving his army.
It was claimed they made decent money, and later they worked for the shogun after Japan was reunited again.
Reminder that one of the greatest ninjas was a Dutch ginger
Insurgency is as old as civilization. Most wars at the dawn of civilization were not conventional wars with other established nations or city-states. A lot of it was dealing with barbarians and civil uprisings, which is what we call unconventional warfare today. Guerilla warfare and tribal warfare are the same thing. From Genghis Khan to George Washington.
Alotta ninja writings are in print now. Not as ubiquitous as imagined, but they did some spook shit.
Everything I've read about their training just looks like modern spec ops. So either they were the original spec ops or people are making shit up to pretend they were.
On a somewhat related note what was intelligence gathering and convert action like back then?