NGAD will completely uproot air combat in its current form. It will be like ww2 pilot seeing a jet for the first time.

NGAD will completely uproot air combat in its current form. It will be like ww2 pilot seeing a jet for the first time.

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Probably

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Or a jet pilot, seeing a better jet for the first time.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Or a better jet pilot seeing an even better jet for the first time. For the very first time.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        A jetter pilot seeing the best jet all over again, for the first time.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It feels like the first time?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Stfu Foreigner.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Or or or or or or or a plane pilot seeing another plane pilot for the second time.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >A jetter pilot

          OPEN JET!

          CHANGE, JET ONE!!

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Flying military mechs
            God I wish it was realistic

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >ww2 pilot seeing a jet for the first time.
      Will GNAD pilot be wearing a gorilla mask, derby and smoking a cigar? Or is this crowd to young for that story? gays.

      Or a better jet pilot seeing an even better jet for the first time. For the very first time.

      Better does not come with style points.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >>ww2 pilot seeing a jet for the first time.
        >Will GNAD pilot be wearing a gorilla mask, derby and smoking a cigar? Or is this crowd to young for that story? gays.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't believe age/generation has much to do with that story about the propless plane and the ape flying it story, since it is on YouTube, I believe it has more to do with interest in WW2 jet development interest and wether or not they've seen the Bell P-59 Airacomet story on YouTube/Cable etc.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I don't believe age/generation has much to do with that story about the propless plane and the ape flying it story, since it is on YouTube, I believe it has more to do with interest in WW2 jet development interest and wether or not they've seen the Bell P-59 Airacomet story on YouTube/Cable etc.

          >le YouTube
          I got it from a retired Colonel in 1979, a bit prior to your le YouTube. But watch it anyway.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I dunno. American tech companies, including the defense contractors, have been constantly failing in recent years. There’s an unmistakable competency crisis going on and it makes me suspicious of NGAD’s success. For example, contractors can’t make key tech work in production resulting in the acquisition program being cut.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      For any other country, that would be a problem.

      But America has the resources to spare even if it is a total flop.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Shoot, I guess we'll have to start investing more in our workforce

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What the frick does this even mean?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Higher salaries, better training, incentives for retention, advancement opportunities. Y'know cultivating skilled employees that want to stay with a company, not just show up for a check and then leave in 2 years once they can get a better deal.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            OK. None of that is why there's a competency crisis. Engineering salaries are already competitive in the US.

            If you push white and asian men out of engineering it doesn't matter how much you pay the people who remain.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              and I suppose you're one of those well paid wasian engineers? no? you're just someone who whines online? interesting

              also - a lot of engineers aren't primarily motivated by money but by opportunities. it's why SpaceX is seen as The company to work at for young engineers. it's just cool to make big or innovativ rockets. employee retention is part of the battle, but so are education incentives and good management

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >young engineers
                So is that why Starship keeps failing, even over simple embarrassing shit like heat tiles falling off, doors failing to operate, etc? I don’t know for certain that it’s untalented diversity students who are causing the competency crisis but there’s definitely something happening that’s undeniable.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >starship is le fail!
                lol you really are just an angry little polcel. Has any other country even managed to land a booster under its own power? Let alone after delivering a payload to orbit and landing on a barge in the ocean? How many falcons blew up before they got that right?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >doors failing a "special" thing
                My sweet summer child. I think it's OK to "just" learn a trade and never study. But why do people always feel that they are worth less because of that. It's OK if you never studied, just don't pretend you are smart then you have other qualities, im sure

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >But why do people always feel that they are worth less because of that
                How would you know? Are you one of those people?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >That whole narcissistic post
                have a nice day, Mr. Engineer :^)

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I strongly suspect that if you look at the engineering teams of all these failed or failing American tech companies, including these moon / space startups, what you’ll find are multicultural students. I fricking bet I could sit down with any one of them on average, and not being an engineer at all and still be able to expose their general lack of IQ / talent.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >it's actually the blacks and women!
              You fell for the rich man's propaganda poor boy

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >>it's actually the blacks and women!
                The universities, professional institutions, and companies are all explicitly saying, in the open, that they're discriminating in favor of women and "bipocs" (excluding asians).

                And they are. Harvard literally lost a lawsuit over it. This is not theoretical, and it's not controversial. The supporters and critics of "positive discrimination" are BOTH saying it's occurring.

                When you select for factors other than competence, you NECESSARILY decrease competence. If you close a chess tournament to people with brown eyes only, you NECESSARILY have reduced the quality of the chess played on the boards. Pointing to the skill of players who met the arbitrary characteristics is not a sufficient rebuttal to the fact that other skilled people have been excluded and their contributions are lost.

                and I suppose you're one of those well paid wasian engineers? no? you're just someone who whines online? interesting

                also - a lot of engineers aren't primarily motivated by money but by opportunities. it's why SpaceX is seen as The company to work at for young engineers. it's just cool to make big or innovativ rockets. employee retention is part of the battle, but so are education incentives and good management

                I am an engineer, wouldn't say I'm highly paid but I'm comfortable and have a lot of freedom.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Workers are better educated and more knowledgeable about programming than ever, but companies can't maintain Fortran code. Companies need to bother to train their workers on what they actually need from them and then do what they can to ensure they don't immediately leave for a better opportunity if they want to maintain the same capabilities.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              No one is pushing whites and Asians out of engineering, my entire engineering department comprises that demographic.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                White men and to a lesser but still similar rate Asian men are being pushed out of every industry, not just the MIC

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Not in defense.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You're not wrong. It's depressing to see compared to what we did in the 60s and 70s. Trouble is, everyone else is worse.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >trouble is, everyone else is worse
        this literally keeps me up at night. somehow, we're king of the hill. except the hill is a mountain of shit, and we're all just sliding down it at an equivalent rate. we're literally watching the decline of our entire species, and everyone is just pretending it's fine and we're definitely totally still innovating ™

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous
      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >be engineer in the 60s-70s
        >salary enough to pay off a big house in a nice neighborhood in a few years, buy a vacation house in a few more, rentals every few years after that
        >work is the pride of the nation, far ahead of anyone else
        >comfy job security and pension
        Now
        >Salary less than hr workers who do nothing but post on Facebook all day
        >Lifelong mortgage payments on mid tier house
        >Work ridiculed as egregious waste of money
        >Job threatened by third worlders whose incompetence makes your job 10x harder
        Anyone with enough talent and brains to keep things advancing isn't going to want to with the way things are today

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I am an engineer and fit all your first points. $141k/yr in Colorado.

          Work for the MiC and you'll never go hungry. Also proud the shit I make keeps america dominating.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Right now China and India are worse, but they are getting better fast but USA is getting even worse fast.

        Sure right now its 90% stolen tech, but if you combine shit that is 85% as good, but with a Chinese manufacturing base and manpower, it starts to smell late late war Nazi wonder waffen and thin ranks VS Allied onslaught.

        Eyeball the kids getting out of school of a Jr HS in 95% of USA (big cities, mostly on coasts) and tell me that will be able to even compete with China in 15yrs when they will be of the age to Master's degrees, NCOs or officers.

        PS-I say Jr HS because my Real Estate expert says HS can be deceiving measure of a town's future because the problem demographic isn't forced by law to attend after 15.5yrs old, and will typical defacto drop out at 14.5.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          wow, that sure is CONCERNING, all of that information I just learned from your post made me very CONCERNED about the prospect of a war with china. Weak western degenerate globohomosexual highschoolers are no match for the mighty dragon of the east's military-industrial might, self sufficient economy, working ballistic missiles and a young, strong population to back up its doctrine

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            damn so you just have to wait till 2090 till china has as many people as america

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I know, I wish there would be fewer of them in the meantime too.

              The good news is they are completely harmless. They have lost every single military engagement outside of their own borders for all of modern history. At least this one will be the last century of humiliation for them.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                While I wish that were true they had some success with their first offensive in the Korean War because MacArthur was being a fricking moron ignoring all of the intelligence reports he was getting.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And then they still lost in the subsequent offensives and overall war because despite being up against a moron, despite the insurmountable logisitcal advantage, and despite having a massive multiple of manpower compared to SK and the UN, they still lost because they are pathetic and embarrassing .

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Honestly, unless Boeing somehow wins both the USAF and USN programs it's doubtful they would fail. At least as far as I can tell, the defense industry hasn't been as hard hit by the competence crisis as other industries, and within the defense industry, Lockmart and Northrop Grumman are doing leagues better than Boeing. Also, given the importance of these two programs, I highly doubt that they'd frick around. More likely I think it that it would be significantly over budget but still successfully deliver airframes.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Didn’t the Lady Hawk [sneer] of Northrop Grumman already announce that they’re out of the running? That’s basically admitting that they don’t have the chops for the program.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >admitting that they don’t have the chops for the program.
          A No Bid contract can make money by not losing money.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Northrop said they're focusing efforts on the USN NGAD fighter, F/A-XX which according to rumours is expected to be a larger contract by dollar figure than the USAF NGAD program.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There’s no contractor on the planet who would not enter the competition if they thought they could execute on it. “Focusing” on F/A-XX on just means “we can’t handle it”. That means it’s up to Boeing who has repeatedly embarrassed itself over passenger air liners, and Lockheed Martin which has just failed the 3rd and final ARRW test — which, to remind you, is just a HGV on a rocket booster, and not a 6th gen fighter concept from DARPA. NGAD could be in real trouble IMO.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              failed?
              it didn't fail, the air force literally said: test was successful

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              It's a once a generation program, it's entirely feasible, especially since the rumor was already out there that the USAF were canoeing Boeing design as it was the most capable (on paper), and Lockheed was looked at as the "safe" option. So USAF basically already knew they were debating between two of the three contractors. Northrop being the odd man out saw the writing on the wall and decided to throw their entire weight behind F/A-XX instead as they have historically been the front runner for navalized fighters in the US.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >canoeing
                Eyeing the

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Especially with recent Boeing controversies, this is a valid concern

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Reasonable concern.
      Main question do they even have concept how 6th gen would dominate 5th gen?
      For 5th gen it was straightforward: unique technology only US has (stealth). Do such trick exists now? Look at Booker tank, laughable failure starting at conceptual level, even if it's parts are good that boomer tank itself would never been good.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >See Leopard 1 and AMX-30
        >Decide we need an American version in the 21st century

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's especially sad for the Army combat vehicles. Just compare the Booker to the new chink light tank. It's clear the Booker was developed from the MGS program for a modular combat vehicle chassis and a tank, APC and IFV but the project failed and they just shit out the Booker as a horrible light tank.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >like ww2 pilot seeing a jet for the first time
    >what was that? what the hell was that?
    >It went by like we were standing still
    Kino.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This except it’s some Zigger or Chang seeing NGAD with a swarm of 12 drones around it

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      God that’s a great clip

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I have more faith in Tempest tbh.
    Seeing the state of Boeing and how complete incompetency can be allowed though bullets suicides to the back of the head make any concept shit the US makes for planes now seem more like a russian tier dream of supremacy
    >Inb4 I'm demorlized

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      GCAP is the best non-american program, but I don't think it'll surpass either of the American programs (NGAD and F/A-XX)

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Boeing makes none of the current Gen fighters though.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You missed the point
        It's the fact companies can get away with scamming people and killing anyone who speaks out.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >like a WW2 pilot seeing a jet for the first time
    and shooting it down, like Chuck Yeager? To be fair, a Russian or Chinese pilot curbstomping a USAF diversity hire in the year 203X is pretty plausible

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Russian
      I shig. I dig. I do.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >russian
      Jesus the absolute state

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This post convinced me America is very strong and majority white
    t.Sergei Sergeiovich from Sergeiroslav oblast

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >It will be like ww2 pilot seeing a jet for the first time.
    So slightly faster but still killable?

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I can't wait for real life Arsenal Bird

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Reminder that ME 262 was shot down repeatedly.

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Friendly reminder that everything you read on the internet about defense programs is filtered through a game of telephone and 2 layers of the Dunning Krueger effect.
    Defense journalists are still journalists, and as a consequence are usually full of shit. Sole exception might be Trimble and that's mostly cause he doesn't speculate beyond the facts.
    t. Knower

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The F-22 is still the best air superiority fighter in the world with no potential rivals in sight, and the F-35 is second. What's the purpose of replacing it so soon?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because they can't upgrade it's systems as easily as the F-35.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Why would it need to be upgraded? The entire world uses Russian-made knockoff F-15s except for China, who are very proud of their brand new Chinese-made knockoff Eurofighter. The situations that would require a replacement of the F-22 are:
        >Russia develops a fifth/sixth gen fighter AND it's actually good AND they're able to build enough to sell (not going to happen)
        >The US gets into a war with Japan and/or Western Europe some time after GCAP is operational (not going to happen)
        >China develops a replacement for the J-20 and it's actually good (not going to happen)
        >Some other country develops a new fighter and it's actually good (who? Only India can afford to develop a geniune F-22 competitor on their own, and whatever they make will be even worse than China)

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The F-22 production lines would cost almost as much to restart as developing an entirely new fighter with extra 20 years of technological progress. Might as well do it

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            There's no need to restart F-22 production lines when the F-35 is enough to ensure air dominance for the forseeable future, even after the existing F-22s are retired.

            Because NGAD is only useful in a near peer conflict. And in a near peer conflict, economics is the only thing that matters. This is why NGAD is rumoured to have drones. Losing a bomb truck cost nothing while losing a mother ship cost millions to train a new pilot.

            The pacific is also huge. F22 doesn’t have the speed to get on station fast enough when bomb truck drones can just loiter for days.

            The US has no peers. All of Europe and the Americas are US vassal states, Africa is irrelevant, and China will not have the capacity to project force outside of its territorial waters for many decades.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because NGAD is only useful in a near peer conflict. And in a near peer conflict, economics is the only thing that matters. This is why NGAD is rumoured to have drones. Losing a bomb truck cost nothing while losing a mother ship cost millions to train a new pilot.

          The pacific is also huge. F22 doesn’t have the speed to get on station fast enough when bomb truck drones can just loiter for days.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Losing a bomb truck cost nothing while losing a mother ship cost millions to train a new pilot.
            More like losing a bomb truck costs $10-20m while losing the fighter you lose a $300m+ airframe and the multi-million dollar trained pilot and maybe a 2nd or 3rd trained human (WSO/drone operator) depending how large NGAD will be.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't see how it's going to be that much different than the current trend we're seeing with existing fighter aircraft. Dogfights will almost never happen because once you're within visual range combat will be a short exchange of extremely maneuverable short-range AAMs.
    Lasers capable compact enough to fit in NGAD and powerful enough to destroy aircraft and missiles would change a lot but laser weapons are *always* 10 years away from widespread use.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      the energy requirements to reliably shoot down missiles or other planes would be insane.
      And then you'll have countermeasures like laserproof coating.

      Instead we'll see tiny missiles with HTK that can be used to shoot down missiles or other planes.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >laserproof coating.
        Doesn't exist. The only other countermeasures would be ablative layers and deployed smoke which are both more effective defenses for ground vehicles and locations than for anything that is in the air.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Doesn't exist
          Anything that reflects light will reduce the effect, or atmospheric moisture. A thick fog and a monochrome coat I should think, without seeing numbers, render it ineffective.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Moisture and range will reduce effectiveness but you seem to have a wrong understanding about lasers and mirrors. If you read into solid state physic you will see that it gets increasingly difficult to built mirrors for wavelengths out of the visible range (UV). Lasers in military applications are not necessarily visible range, afaik free electron lasers are considered and they are in the x-ray range for example.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >you seem to have a wrong understanding about lasers and mirrors. If you read into solid state physic you will see that it gets increasingly difficult to built mirrors for wavelengths out of the visible range (UV). Lasers in military applications are not necessarily visible range, afaik free electron lasers are considered and they are in the x-ray range for example

              All transverse waves reflect moron.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    China has probably already stolen the blueprint
    Aided by a US citizen scientist named Bu Sin alias Bernard Wu

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Figured this is the best thread for GCAP news, no point making a new thread for this

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Defense/U.K.-welcomes-Japan-s-fighter-jet-export-plans-says-deputy-PM2
    >tldr
    UK is happy with Japan's latest move on GCAP exports. Japan said they will allow export to 15 (including UK/Italy) countries currently and leave the door open for other countries if they meet japan's requirements.

    https://www.eurasiantimes.com/cracks-in-6th-gen-fighter-italy-unhappy-with/
    https://breakingdefense.com/2024/03/leonardo-ceo-criticizes-uk-for-lack-of-transparency-on-gcap-industrial-plans/
    >tldr
    Italy seems to be mouthing off that the UK hasn't really said what THEY bring to the table. Basically claiming the UK says they'll do certain things but aren't being transparent about timetables or HOW they plan to bring that capability to the table.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Manned aircraft. Mattering at all. It is to laugh.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ah yes i'm sure the unmanned french project will do SO much better.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Read what a plasmon frequency is, read about wavelength dependence of the index of refraction. Calling others a moron while thinking polarisation is the only factor that matters for reflection is just sad.

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >like ww2 pilot seeing a jet for the first time
    Between Germany, The Untried States, and Britain, there were literally thousands of jet powered aircraft during WW2.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    without shells useless

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