>radar return on ground assets
i guess it's relevant for the 3-4 soviet systems that use ground radar but i don't see how radar return would be a factor
>radar return on ground assets
i guess it's relevant for the 3-4 soviet systems that use ground radar but i don't see how radar return would be a factor
I agree. All the kamikaze birds we see are probably directed by visual aid.
doesnt matter the amount of iron ore needed is the same regardless
It's not WW2 you fucking spacker. Steel isn't the big chokepoint for weapons anymore, if it ever really was.
Processor chips are.
everything has steel some less some more thats not up to debate and yes STEEL production in war times IS STILL the biggest hurdle especially considering that out of 10 factories ukraine is down to 4 which i assume they rotate between stee/and alloys
Welcome to the 21st century.Industrialized countries can produce large quantities of cheap steel.
really?
no shit anon
which country since the 40s was in war and was able to produce enough steel to satisfy its need?
oh wait not even the soviets could
Why not? It's very cheap.
the price is not the problem the factories that they dont have is
dumb post, actual elemental iron is never EVER the limiting factor. It's always alloying elements (germany got fucked on this front), iron that doesn't need a ton of post-processing (japan suffered here, see 1,000 fold katanas), and the industry needed to turn the raw materials into high-quality steel (lmao shitaly). If you're making scrap-iron decoys that will just be roughly bashed into shape and drowned in green paint you need none of those.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Nice trips
You can literally use "shitty steel" for most things, as long as you have iron ore there is basically no issue in making most steel domestically anywhere, it just costs more than china does it for because of environmental regulations there don't exist and they also used to produce 40% of the worlds iron ore, but in recent years it basically has all moved to Australia kek, with ore shipped to Chinese processing plants.
Australia is literally the major lynchpin in ore extraction for the next 200 years, which is why China is trying to colonise it.
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
Everyone is sleeping on us making moves to establish ourselves as the next global hegemon and that's just the way we like it
4 weeks ago
Anonymous
>dumb post
read what i said again you massive idiot
ukraine had 13 factories 6 of them were for regular steel
3 for s.s
1 for HDM
the 3 that remained were exclusively for ferroalloys
guess which ones they are using now that they have only 4 left and they practically do not produce any tools anymore
And back then it only really was an issue for Germany and Japan who both had to little domestic ore (iron and other metals for refining) production to keep up with the demand.
Take a look at the production of ships, tanks and airplanes in the US, steel wasn't the problem.
M777's are specialised artillery that th west could just afford because it's rich, they're not really mainline production artillery for use in times of war, you'd swap back to various steel and composite barrels for that during wartime.
They're literally just normal carried artillery but lighter so helis can move them about.
That would depend on whether any aftermath footage is released (which they don't usually seem to do); I doubt the Ukrainians would be too keen on debunking/pointing out decoy losses either, in case it helps the Russians to tell them apart from the real thing.
possibly.
But is minor propaganda boost for russians a bad price for saving your real equipment and tricking ziggers into depleting their limited resources on hunting decoys?
That’s a big assumption. It’s far more likely the decoys would have a team paired with it. They’re certainly not lacking the manpower - materiel is their bottleneck.
>but anon, they’ll just be standing around it and not actually using it, which will give the ruse away
Weapons systems do not have 100% uptime. A big part of war is standing around with your hand on your dick
You can put decoy people there.
Some wooden sticks with helmet and coat.
From distance you are supposed to scout them you won't see the difference, especially not on the 0.1 pixel russian camera
>the difference is that the decoys won't be manned
theres a crew accompanying most decoys actually since they do need to be moved after sometime or it would be suHispanicious
especially complex ones that are actually drivable have a crew nearby
for example
this drivable IRIS-T SLM launcher Decoy had a small crew with it
How do I know its a decoy?
No secondaries
plus the antennas are just a straight pole with no wiring or receivers at the top
and russians reported how ukies just moved this damaged unit to another part of the front instead of pulling out
there is probably some minimal crew setting up and moving them. so while they might hide in a safe distance most of the time you still get some real movement and foot and vehicle traffic until they move in 5 days. or you can mix and match and have fakes exposed while the real ones are a bit more hidden in the same area. so if they get spotted by counterbattery radar etc the fake one in the open gets hit and the real one under the camo net survives.
and the second question is, the opportunity cost of missing a real one can be higher than the engagement cost.
>the opportunity cost of missing a real one can be higher than the engagement cost.
right: >we destroyed 3 SAM launchers, this area doesn't have medium range SAM coverage anymore!
is a HUGELY expensive mistake to make.
>make a bunch of decoys >enemy knows you have a bunch of decoys >put decoys in good locations and real weapons in stupid risky exposed locations >enemy thinks the overexposed ones are decoys and doesnt blow them up >shoot them with your weapons you placed in advantageous but risky positions
I would guess decoys can be used to draw enemy forces away from your true attacking area, because you can bait them into thinking you are doing a buildup elsewhere
Legal immigrants tend to have the means to emmigrate from their home country, so they are usually from the upper echelons, are comparatively well educated, and lived with western conveniences back home.
Also Texas has the second highest concentration of Indian immigrants.
Lmao I love the stupidity of this post. He feels his agenda threatened so he just instinctively reacts before even giving the raging homeless and drug problem infesting California a single thought.
how durable/reusable are they?
just curious what the cost of a decoy is versus the ammunition and effort used to destroy it
though i guess you can lots of dudes who aren't doing anything else putting these together
>how durable/reusable are they?
they are from fucking steel anon >just curious what the cost of a decoy is versus the ammunition and effort used to destroy it
they are really cheap.
Thing is, you place decoy on a spot Y and real weapon on place X, and then you switch. Some times enemy will just take bait or fuck up.
Drone operator sees real weapon on X and marks it, by the time Lancet arrives, it sees decoy and hits it.
The decoy will always be cheaper than the real thing and depending on what weapon is used to destroy it it's also cheaper than that.
Since Russia has problems with the production of more complex weapons they are even more effective if one of those gets used on them.
Durability depends on the build quality and, if directly engaged, how bad they are hit. Probably not build forever but they should hold up longer than one would assume since they have no function besides looking somewhat like the original - keeping them in a close enough state should be possible with some wire, a welder and two cans of paint.
The piece of metal instead of a tombstone anti-artillery radar and the rectangle slabs instead of an erector-launcher missile tubes should be a giveaway.
No, it means you get to waste artillery and drones to a heap of metal that is just moved afterwards. It's little to no investment, made in civilian machine shops based on pictures.
I already miss how he used to scream SHOIGUUUUU and ask for ammo...
funny how russians are supposed to be kings of ew, have electro emitters sensing drones, aircraft... and are then unable to locate the radars themselves and send a russian HARM towards them.
I would imagine Orynx is aware of this and will try to tell. They're just thin and made of wood right? Once blown up they should be apparent.
They are cheap metal construction so they have a somewhat similar radar return.
>radar return on ground assets
i guess it's relevant for the 3-4 soviet systems that use ground radar but i don't see how radar return would be a factor
Metal heats up slower and cools down slower than wood, so a wooden decoy will look different to a thermal camera.
I agree. All the kamikaze birds we see are probably directed by visual aid.
>They are cheap metal construction
they use steel for dummies in time of war?
Not all steel is created the same.
doesnt matter the amount of iron ore needed is the same regardless
everything has steel some less some more thats not up to debate and yes STEEL production in war times IS STILL the biggest hurdle especially considering that out of 10 factories ukraine is down to 4 which i assume they rotate between stee/and alloys
really?
no shit anon
which country since the 40s was in war and was able to produce enough steel to satisfy its need?
oh wait not even the soviets could
the price is not the problem the factories that they dont have is
dumb post, actual elemental iron is never EVER the limiting factor. It's always alloying elements (germany got fucked on this front), iron that doesn't need a ton of post-processing (japan suffered here, see 1,000 fold katanas), and the industry needed to turn the raw materials into high-quality steel (lmao shitaly). If you're making scrap-iron decoys that will just be roughly bashed into shape and drowned in green paint you need none of those.
Nice trips
You can literally use "shitty steel" for most things, as long as you have iron ore there is basically no issue in making most steel domestically anywhere, it just costs more than china does it for because of environmental regulations there don't exist and they also used to produce 40% of the worlds iron ore, but in recent years it basically has all moved to Australia kek, with ore shipped to Chinese processing plants.
Australia is literally the major lynchpin in ore extraction for the next 200 years, which is why China is trying to colonise it.
Everyone is sleeping on us making moves to establish ourselves as the next global hegemon and that's just the way we like it
>dumb post
read what i said again you massive idiot
ukraine had 13 factories 6 of them were for regular steel
3 for s.s
1 for HDM
the 3 that remained were exclusively for ferroalloys
guess which ones they are using now that they have only 4 left and they practically do not produce any tools anymore
It's not WW2 you fucking spacker. Steel isn't the big chokepoint for weapons anymore, if it ever really was.
Processor chips are.
And back then it only really was an issue for Germany and Japan who both had to little domestic ore (iron and other metals for refining) production to keep up with the demand.
Take a look at the production of ships, tanks and airplanes in the US, steel wasn't the problem.
Welcome to the 21st century.Industrialized countries can produce large quantities of cheap steel.
Why not? It's very cheap.
M777's are made from titanium
M777's are specialised artillery that th west could just afford because it's rich, they're not really mainline production artillery for use in times of war, you'd swap back to various steel and composite barrels for that during wartime.
They're literally just normal carried artillery but lighter so helis can move them about.
>They are cheap metal construction
The garden gnomes are so cool
That would depend on whether any aftermath footage is released (which they don't usually seem to do); I doubt the Ukrainians would be too keen on debunking/pointing out decoy losses either, in case it helps the Russians to tell them apart from the real thing.
>Once blown up they should be apparent.
Russians cut videos before damage can be assessed
Depends how convincing the evidence is. I'm sure orynx can be fooled like anyone else.
>Won't it inflate the orynx losses?
Who cares? Does it really matter at all? Not like the war is going to stop if orynx losses are x% higher.
A hollow shell constructed of scrap metal will look entirely different than an actual piece of equipment when hit by a munition.
Depends entirely on if Russia shows the aftermath kek (Unlikely)
Cool, but how will we be able to tell if it is a decoy when it is destroyed? Won't it inflate Ukrainian losses on oryx?
possibly.
But is minor propaganda boost for russians a bad price for saving your real equipment and tricking ziggers into depleting their limited resources on hunting decoys?
>Won't it inflate Ukrainian losses on oryx?
I don't think this will have any effect on fighting on the ground
Those Uke craftsmen know their shit. Never tell the difference from a shitty drone camera.
the difference is that the decoys won't be manned
it's a big giveaway I guess
It'll be hard to tell with a decoy parked in a treeline.
That’s a big assumption. It’s far more likely the decoys would have a team paired with it. They’re certainly not lacking the manpower - materiel is their bottleneck.
>but anon, they’ll just be standing around it and not actually using it, which will give the ruse away
Weapons systems do not have 100% uptime. A big part of war is standing around with your hand on your dick
>A big part of war is standing around with your hand on your dick
I always knew I had what it takes to be a soldier
You can put decoy people there.
Some wooden sticks with helmet and coat.
From distance you are supposed to scout them you won't see the difference, especially not on the 0.1 pixel russian camera
>the difference is that the decoys won't be manned
theres a crew accompanying most decoys actually since they do need to be moved after sometime or it would be suHispanicious
especially complex ones that are actually drivable have a crew nearby
for example
this drivable IRIS-T SLM launcher Decoy had a small crew with it
How do I know its a decoy?
No secondaries
plus the antennas are just a straight pole with no wiring or receivers at the top
and russians reported how ukies just moved this damaged unit to another part of the front instead of pulling out
seems like a pretty risky job
Ive heard that lancets are really loud, and ukies can hear them from a long distance.
I remember r/ukrainerussiareport having a field day with this one
In the era of drones with HD cameras you want basically Volkssturm manning the bait, from a far it looks more believable.
>decoys won't be manned
Are there some laws against manning decoys?
there is probably some minimal crew setting up and moving them. so while they might hide in a safe distance most of the time you still get some real movement and foot and vehicle traffic until they move in 5 days. or you can mix and match and have fakes exposed while the real ones are a bit more hidden in the same area. so if they get spotted by counterbattery radar etc the fake one in the open gets hit and the real one under the camo net survives.
and the second question is, the opportunity cost of missing a real one can be higher than the engagement cost.
>the opportunity cost of missing a real one can be higher than the engagement cost.
right:
>we destroyed 3 SAM launchers, this area doesn't have medium range SAM coverage anymore!
is a HUGELY expensive mistake to make.
>there is probably some minimal crew setting up and moving them.
do you know why piggers are not using this shit in the field? it costs 10 times more than a single lancet.
There is no ukraine war. They're all decoys.
the cube is real though
This, unironically.
Some shit with the reactor in Chernobyl is going on but NWO including russia is covering it up
For a second it looked like the pipes for artillery guns were censored like dicks in hentai, lewd
go on Rajj post the decoy hit from last month again you stupid moron
Too obvious, Ranjesh, you're not getting paid for this one. Do not redeem the needful, saar.
>make a bunch of decoys
>enemy knows you have a bunch of decoys
>put decoys in good locations and real weapons in stupid risky exposed locations
>enemy thinks the overexposed ones are decoys and doesnt blow them up
>shoot them with your weapons you placed in advantageous but risky positions
will only work against competent enemies, Russians blast everything they see without think about such things as decoys
When the west speaks, the east reeks.
This is the power of designated shitting streets..
I would guess decoys can be used to draw enemy forces away from your true attacking area, because you can bait them into thinking you are doing a buildup elsewhere
When the ganges flows the corpses wash up brown subhuman
all they can do is call you brown here
When the East squats, the street glistens.
>USA 0
I don't believe it. Last I checked California was in the US.
Legal immigrants tend to have the means to emmigrate from their home country, so they are usually from the upper echelons, are comparatively well educated, and lived with western conveniences back home.
Also Texas has the second highest concentration of Indian immigrants.
Lmao I love the stupidity of this post. He feels his agenda threatened so he just instinctively reacts before even giving the raging homeless and drug problem infesting California a single thought.
Anon the post was about indian immigrants, now you're projecting other issues because you got caught out making a stupid post.
I don't see the term "indian immigration" used anywhere in that pic, you dumb fuck.
>street shitting
>not indian
Now you're just being intentionally obtuse. Just take the L and stop engaging in this vatnik tier obfuscation.
>A SOURCE! A SOURCE! MY KINGDOM FOR A SOURCE!
https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1695016155667210319
All war footage is staged.
Even intelligence agencies only get to see faked drone and satellite images. There are no real live feeds
You only need a relatively small set of people to fake the whole war.
how durable/reusable are they?
just curious what the cost of a decoy is versus the ammunition and effort used to destroy it
though i guess you can lots of dudes who aren't doing anything else putting these together
>how durable/reusable are they?
they are from fucking steel anon
>just curious what the cost of a decoy is versus the ammunition and effort used to destroy it
they are really cheap.
Thing is, you place decoy on a spot Y and real weapon on place X, and then you switch. Some times enemy will just take bait or fuck up.
Drone operator sees real weapon on X and marks it, by the time Lancet arrives, it sees decoy and hits it.
but the stuff they're using to blow them up is intended to blow up steel things though
what?
The decoy will always be cheaper than the real thing and depending on what weapon is used to destroy it it's also cheaper than that.
Since Russia has problems with the production of more complex weapons they are even more effective if one of those gets used on them.
Durability depends on the build quality and, if directly engaged, how bad they are hit. Probably not build forever but they should hold up longer than one would assume since they have no function besides looking somewhat like the original - keeping them in a close enough state should be possible with some wire, a welder and two cans of paint.
Bottom two are real tho??+
No
The piece of metal instead of a tombstone anti-artillery radar and the rectangle slabs instead of an erector-launcher missile tubes should be a giveaway.
The most competent Lancet operator has arrived
No, it means you get to waste artillery and drones to a heap of metal that is just moved afterwards. It's little to no investment, made in civilian machine shops based on pictures.
I already miss how he used to scream SHOIGUUUUU and ask for ammo...
funny how russians are supposed to be kings of ew, have electro emitters sensing drones, aircraft... and are then unable to locate the radars themselves and send a russian HARM towards them.
>and are then unable to locate the radars themselves and send a russian HARM towards them.