>Think, Lee! Think! If the government isn't centralized how do you expect to maintain an army, control territory, or accomplish anything a nation needs to succeed?
LOL
An empire in decline is still an empire, dumb fricking prick, yes, I would consider the wealthiest, subcontinent-spanning, global power the likes of which the world has never seen before Grand Experiment that is the US to be successful, warts and all
you're a colossal homosexual if you say otherwise, or perhaps a paid impoverished troll collecting their dollar daily wage
Likely at a much later date though, depending on the severity of American losses. Midway broke Japan's back on the naval front and gave the US the ability to navigate the Pacific theater as they saw fit. That meant expanding the range of everything from carriers, to troop ships, to destroyers and more importantly for bombers and air patrol. It was hugely pivotal.a8knh
>much later
Black person the Japs never had the resources to increase production, the Americans were mogging them so hard in production that they just gave up on trying to force another grand battle and just positioned massive formations across possible areas of interests in the Pacific, you defeat the small fleet at Midway, guess what? Another fleet twice as large is already stationed in Hawaii, the only thing the Japs would get in this new timeline is more nukes and not a longer war as the Soviets tear up their forces from the rear and Tokyo is set aflame thrice over
Again, are you completely fricking unaware of what was going on in the second half of 1942? >Americans were mogging them so hard in production
Not yet. The first Essex wouldn't arrive to Pearl Harbor until May 1943, almost an entire year after Midway. >they just gave up on trying to force another grand battle
Categorically fricking false, again you clearly forgot the rest of 1942 exists. Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz Islands ring a bell?Saratoga was out of action by late August, Wasp gets sunk in September, Enterprise is severely damaged and Hornet is fricking sunk in late October, leaving us with only one not-even-fully operational carrier still capable of combat operations. The naval situation was desperate in November, when both sides went all-in with surface combatants at 1st and 2nd Naval Battles of Guadalcanal. Knocking the last remnants of the Kido Butai out of action along with sinking Hiei and Kirishima are what finally stopped the IJN's momentum.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I would agree generally that Midway was more decisive than Guadacanal or the Soloman campaign more accurately. It was certainly a more clear cut victory, as the Navy took a pounding several times during the Solomans, occasionally being reduced to just trying to maintain a relevant fleet in being to prevent an assault on Australia. Nothing like the 5 minutes at Midway that inflicted permanent irreplaceable aircrew losses for the IJN.
I'd say that if you had to pick one beside Midway, that would have to be the Battle of the Philippine Sea. If the Nip battleships hadn't been held off by the DDs and DEs then it's plausible the entire invasion force would have been wiped out, which might have had an effect on the end state of the war for Japan.
1 year ago
Anonymous
I mean if the metric here is "USA USA USA!!!!!" then yeah, sure. Midway IS a spectacular victory and one of the most stunning turnarounds in naval history, my argument is just that it was not the ultimate deciding factor, hence my first line in my post
https://i.imgur.com/0LouNwK.jpg
You fricking gen-z hollygood consoomer moron, no it didn't. Midway set things equal, Guadalcanal irreversibly turned the war in favor of the Allies. It just doesn't get any movies made about it because it lasted for 3 months, not 3 days.
[...]
yes
[...]
Yes, especially given that Kirishima (member of the Kongo-class battlecruiser family) did not have anywhere near enough armor to stand up to Washington's 16"/45cal guns. Hell, even Hiei (Kirishima's sister) was mauled at close range by Portland and San Francisco's 8" main batteries 2 nights prior to this engagement. Hiei took on water and was too damaged to escape air attack range by sunrise and was sunk by aircraft, but cruisers made the mortal wounds.
Also you are thinking of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, Philippine Sea was the final carrier battle of the war in June 1944 aka the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot.
Leyte Gulf is odd. Strategically, the Japanese plan made sense but tactically, there was no way the engagement would have turned out different than it did. By the time Halsey had been led away to Cape Engano and Kurita had breached San Bernardino Strait, Musashi had already been sunk. Although 7th Fleet's battleships and cruisers were down south having annihilated the Southern Force hours prior, Oldendorf could have moved north to intercept Kurita (who would already be under intense air attack from the Taffy CVE groups). Kurita had no chance; he knew this, so he withdrew.
1 year ago
Anonymous
1 year ago
Anonymous
It's crazy how Midway was won by pure dumb luck rather than planning despite the US intelligence being superior. A few minutes of difference and the american dive-bombers would have been wiped out before being able to strike, just like almost all their planes involved in the battle.
The US was definitely the underdog in that battle even if his industrial might doomed the japs in the long run.
1 year ago
Anonymous
https://i.imgur.com/KBYzNUZ.jpg
I mean if the metric here is "USA USA USA!!!!!" then yeah, sure. Midway IS a spectacular victory and one of the most stunning turnarounds in naval history, my argument is just that it was not the ultimate deciding factor, hence my first line in my post[...]
Also you are thinking of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, Philippine Sea was the final carrier battle of the war in June 1944 aka the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot.
Leyte Gulf is odd. Strategically, the Japanese plan made sense but tactically, there was no way the engagement would have turned out different than it did. By the time Halsey had been led away to Cape Engano and Kurita had breached San Bernardino Strait, Musashi had already been sunk. Although 7th Fleet's battleships and cruisers were down south having annihilated the Southern Force hours prior, Oldendorf could have moved north to intercept Kurita (who would already be under intense air attack from the Taffy CVE groups). Kurita had no chance; he knew this, so he withdrew.
Sorry cuck but I am a millienial marine so if I say midway a fricking naval victory was number one I am automatically right you cuck. The breaking of the Kido butai, which until it's destruction was the most powerful naval formation in the history of the planet was absolutely the US's greatest Military victory. Not even WW2 just the countries entire history.
Japan had a legit shot of winning at the beginning of the war. It was going to have to be based off puncher's chance and a few of military miracles here and there, but they had a shot. Midway killed that possibility, and Guadalcanal took the body and threw it off a cliff Mishima-style.
The US wasn't able to leverage the production advantage fully until September 1943, when the new Essex classes replaced the losses of the past year and bolstered the carrier force to the point where it could go on offensives through the central Pacific. What's often forgotten about 1942 is that while Japan did lose 4 fleet carriers in a single battle, the US also lost the same number of carriers, but from multiple battles spanning May-Oct 42. As a result the IJN and USN still had the same number of fleet carriers operational (4) at the beginning of 1943, with the IJN having more escort carriers.
True, but if we prolonged the war any longer, it's very likely that we would have seen soviets in Japan. Japan could have been split like Korea is split today.
> it's very likely that we would have seen soviets in Japan
Absolutely not. The Soviet navy did not have nearly enough landing craft to make a landing against the kind of defenses Japan had waiting. And even I& they did have the landing craft, they had little to no experience in conducting amphibious landings. And even if they did, they did not have enough of a surface fleet to support one. And even if they did, they had zero experience with the kind of tactics the Japs would be using. They would have gotten massacred.
Quite small scale, against an enemy that a couple days into the invasion is ordered to surrender and let's you dock in the ports you're attacking isn't a proper demonstration of being able to pull off a large scale naval invasion
You fricking gen-z hollygood consoomer moron, no it didn't. Midway set things equal, Guadalcanal irreversibly turned the war in favor of the Allies. It just doesn't get any movies made about it because it lasted for 3 months, not 3 days.
https://i.imgur.com/6L8Bx5R.png
yes
Hits below the waterline, if they actually penetrate are pretty much a completely flooded compartment, or two, or even a whole section?
Yes, especially given that Kirishima (member of the Kongo-class battlecruiser family) did not have anywhere near enough armor to stand up to Washington's 16"/45cal guns. Hell, even Hiei (Kirishima's sister) was mauled at close range by Portland and San Francisco's 8" main batteries 2 nights prior to this engagement. Hiei took on water and was too damaged to escape air attack range by sunrise and was sunk by aircraft, but cruisers made the mortal wounds.
I still find it fricking criminal the whole shitshow that was the Mark 14 Torpedo and how NO-ONE involved got charged with fricking treason like they deserved for keeping that torpedo in service despite KNOWING it was faulty and near useless.
Like holy shit I've never seen a more fricked up incident with the MIC due to the sheer number of US lives lost from that shit torpedo & the number of Japanese ships that SHOULD have been destroyed if hit by a working torpedo.
The battle of Okinawa, for all that it was merely a formality in terms of how the war in the pacific was going. Was so far as i'm aware the largest amphibious assault in human history, even larger than D-Day
Yes
Also much much larger casualties. 50k vs like 10k. These are the numbers that got Japan nuked. The thought being if this is how they defended their versions of Hawaii, how would they defend fricking Tokyo or Kyoto of the imperial palace. If civilians are throwing themselves off cliffs on Okinawa with their children what will happen on Japan proper. Could you imagine child suicide bombers? Babies rigged with explosives. BANZAI charges but just women and children. Because after Okinawa we could and so we shattered creation over their cities to avoid any chance of it.
When the US military invaded USA to force Black folk into us schools instead of deporting them back to Africa
Not one single bullet was fired by the Americans
The US Army had a complete victory with zero soldiers harmed
YOU WON'T DO SHIT AND YOUR GUNS ARE FOR SUICIDE
Just a reminder
Gettysburg.
Correct
>Think, Lee! Think! If the government isn't centralized how do you expect to maintain an army, control territory, or accomplish anything a nation needs to succeed?
Would you consider the current state of the United States as “successful?”
More so than the confederacy
>unquestionable dominance over land, sea and air ove rthe entire planet
>entire planet knows and speaks English
>entire planet uses the dollar
LOL
An empire in decline is still an empire, dumb fricking prick, yes, I would consider the wealthiest, subcontinent-spanning, global power the likes of which the world has never seen before Grand Experiment that is the US to be successful, warts and all
you're a colossal homosexual if you say otherwise, or perhaps a paid impoverished troll collecting their dollar daily wage
Waterloo
Elsenborn Ridge
decisively denying the g*rmans and winning the battle of the bulge
Midway literally won the Pacific. If the US had lost the battle of the bulge Germany still loses.
If the USN had lost at Midway, Japan was still going to lose the war
Likely at a much later date though, depending on the severity of American losses. Midway broke Japan's back on the naval front and gave the US the ability to navigate the Pacific theater as they saw fit. That meant expanding the range of everything from carriers, to troop ships, to destroyers and more importantly for bombers and air patrol. It was hugely pivotal.a8knh
>much later
Black person the Japs never had the resources to increase production, the Americans were mogging them so hard in production that they just gave up on trying to force another grand battle and just positioned massive formations across possible areas of interests in the Pacific, you defeat the small fleet at Midway, guess what? Another fleet twice as large is already stationed in Hawaii, the only thing the Japs would get in this new timeline is more nukes and not a longer war as the Soviets tear up their forces from the rear and Tokyo is set aflame thrice over
Again, are you completely fricking unaware of what was going on in the second half of 1942?
>Americans were mogging them so hard in production
Not yet. The first Essex wouldn't arrive to Pearl Harbor until May 1943, almost an entire year after Midway.
>they just gave up on trying to force another grand battle
Categorically fricking false, again you clearly forgot the rest of 1942 exists. Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz Islands ring a bell?Saratoga was out of action by late August, Wasp gets sunk in September, Enterprise is severely damaged and Hornet is fricking sunk in late October, leaving us with only one not-even-fully operational carrier still capable of combat operations. The naval situation was desperate in November, when both sides went all-in with surface combatants at 1st and 2nd Naval Battles of Guadalcanal. Knocking the last remnants of the Kido Butai out of action along with sinking Hiei and Kirishima are what finally stopped the IJN's momentum.
I would agree generally that Midway was more decisive than Guadacanal or the Soloman campaign more accurately. It was certainly a more clear cut victory, as the Navy took a pounding several times during the Solomans, occasionally being reduced to just trying to maintain a relevant fleet in being to prevent an assault on Australia. Nothing like the 5 minutes at Midway that inflicted permanent irreplaceable aircrew losses for the IJN.
I'd say that if you had to pick one beside Midway, that would have to be the Battle of the Philippine Sea. If the Nip battleships hadn't been held off by the DDs and DEs then it's plausible the entire invasion force would have been wiped out, which might have had an effect on the end state of the war for Japan.
I mean if the metric here is "USA USA USA!!!!!" then yeah, sure. Midway IS a spectacular victory and one of the most stunning turnarounds in naval history, my argument is just that it was not the ultimate deciding factor, hence my first line in my post
Also you are thinking of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, Philippine Sea was the final carrier battle of the war in June 1944 aka the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot.
Leyte Gulf is odd. Strategically, the Japanese plan made sense but tactically, there was no way the engagement would have turned out different than it did. By the time Halsey had been led away to Cape Engano and Kurita had breached San Bernardino Strait, Musashi had already been sunk. Although 7th Fleet's battleships and cruisers were down south having annihilated the Southern Force hours prior, Oldendorf could have moved north to intercept Kurita (who would already be under intense air attack from the Taffy CVE groups). Kurita had no chance; he knew this, so he withdrew.
It's crazy how Midway was won by pure dumb luck rather than planning despite the US intelligence being superior. A few minutes of difference and the american dive-bombers would have been wiped out before being able to strike, just like almost all their planes involved in the battle.
The US was definitely the underdog in that battle even if his industrial might doomed the japs in the long run.
Sorry cuck but I am a millienial marine so if I say midway a fricking naval victory was number one I am automatically right you cuck. The breaking of the Kido butai, which until it's destruction was the most powerful naval formation in the history of the planet was absolutely the US's greatest Military victory. Not even WW2 just the countries entire history.
Japan had a legit shot of winning at the beginning of the war. It was going to have to be based off puncher's chance and a few of military miracles here and there, but they had a shot. Midway killed that possibility, and Guadalcanal took the body and threw it off a cliff Mishima-style.
The US wasn't able to leverage the production advantage fully until September 1943, when the new Essex classes replaced the losses of the past year and bolstered the carrier force to the point where it could go on offensives through the central Pacific. What's often forgotten about 1942 is that while Japan did lose 4 fleet carriers in a single battle, the US also lost the same number of carriers, but from multiple battles spanning May-Oct 42. As a result the IJN and USN still had the same number of fleet carriers operational (4) at the beginning of 1943, with the IJN having more escort carriers.
True, but if we prolonged the war any longer, it's very likely that we would have seen soviets in Japan. Japan could have been split like Korea is split today.
> it's very likely that we would have seen soviets in Japan
Absolutely not. The Soviet navy did not have nearly enough landing craft to make a landing against the kind of defenses Japan had waiting. And even I& they did have the landing craft, they had little to no experience in conducting amphibious landings. And even if they did, they did not have enough of a surface fleet to support one. And even if they did, they had zero experience with the kind of tactics the Japs would be using. They would have gotten massacred.
And yet the Soviets successfully did it.
Quite small scale, against an enemy that a couple days into the invasion is ordered to surrender and let's you dock in the ports you're attacking isn't a proper demonstration of being able to pull off a large scale naval invasion
You fricking gen-z hollygood consoomer moron, no it didn't. Midway set things equal, Guadalcanal irreversibly turned the war in favor of the Allies. It just doesn't get any movies made about it because it lasted for 3 months, not 3 days.
yes
Yes, especially given that Kirishima (member of the Kongo-class battlecruiser family) did not have anywhere near enough armor to stand up to Washington's 16"/45cal guns. Hell, even Hiei (Kirishima's sister) was mauled at close range by Portland and San Francisco's 8" main batteries 2 nights prior to this engagement. Hiei took on water and was too damaged to escape air attack range by sunrise and was sunk by aircraft, but cruisers made the mortal wounds.
moron, Gaudalcanal meant shit may as well killed everyone there. What matters were the carriers.
Battle of the bulge had no influence in the outcome of the war. Russians were coming other allies divisions were moving south still.
The Thin Red Line is set during the battle of Guadalcanal. its an excellent movie
It wasn't against the same calibre of enemy, but Desert Storm was undoubtedly the most one-sided stomp in history
Desert Storm is the probably the ultimate flex. It's possible no other conflict in history will be as complex and successful.
Kabul
Hits below the waterline, if they actually penetrate are pretty much a completely flooded compartment, or two, or even a whole section?
Yes, uncontrolled flooding from these huts is exactly the cause of Kirishima's loss.
Chink Lee approves.
the tet offensive
who bothered to write the 49 in that picture using the smoke and why?
where do you see 49?
The schizo has found patterns in the smoke trails! Everybody point and laugh!
Bunker Hill
Rocky knocking down Drago was a big deal.
heh
Desert storm is the biggest mog
nah, Spanish American war in the Philippines
1776
the state of /k/, homosexual trap LARP AR threads get more replies than actual interesting and cool topics like these
USN submarines dabbing on the Japanese merchant marine and sinking over a hundred IJN warships from 1943-45
I still find it fricking criminal the whole shitshow that was the Mark 14 Torpedo and how NO-ONE involved got charged with fricking treason like they deserved for keeping that torpedo in service despite KNOWING it was faulty and near useless.
Like holy shit I've never seen a more fricked up incident with the MIC due to the sheer number of US lives lost from that shit torpedo & the number of Japanese ships that SHOULD have been destroyed if hit by a working torpedo.
Battle Off Samar.
WTC 911
The battle of Okinawa, for all that it was merely a formality in terms of how the war in the pacific was going. Was so far as i'm aware the largest amphibious assault in human history, even larger than D-Day
Yes
Also much much larger casualties. 50k vs like 10k. These are the numbers that got Japan nuked. The thought being if this is how they defended their versions of Hawaii, how would they defend fricking Tokyo or Kyoto of the imperial palace. If civilians are throwing themselves off cliffs on Okinawa with their children what will happen on Japan proper. Could you imagine child suicide bombers? Babies rigged with explosives. BANZAI charges but just women and children. Because after Okinawa we could and so we shattered creation over their cities to avoid any chance of it.
Miracle on Ice.
Surigao Strait. The whole battle of the Phillipines, but especially Surigao Strait.
importing 9001 africans into their country a century ago
When the US military invaded USA to force Black folk into us schools instead of deporting them back to Africa
Not one single bullet was fired by the Americans
The US Army had a complete victory with zero soldiers harmed
YOU WON'T DO SHIT AND YOUR GUNS ARE FOR SUICIDE
Just a reminder