My boomer dad, who has limited experience with guns, has finally decided to buy a shotgun.
He decided that while he loves living in California, the crime is getting a bit nuts. He weirdly wants a .410 shotgun for home defense because it's a smaller shotgun and he thinks it would look better if he had to use it in home defense.
What do you guys recommend, I am thinking a simple Mossberg 500 in .410 but I want your opinion.
Ideally:
>Under $600
>Boomer friendly
>Not too "tactical" looking
>Pump action
>Not a single shot
88 Mav. 12 Gauge buck. Put a light on it. Put a fannypack full of more buck next to it. Done.
.410 is not going to instantly stop the purely socioeconomic factors he is worried about when they are on crack/fent/krokodil/whatever they invent next. Stopping power isn't a boomer meme.
It is also less readily available. It going to be more difficult to find buckshot or self defense loads for it.
>He weirdly wants a .410 shotgun for home defense
He's a fucking idiot.
See this?-
>88 Mav. 12 Gauge buck.
is right. Don't let your old man stupid himself into a bad situation by making a grossly misinformed decision.
Did she die?
No. She just put two 9 mm JHPs in his lower abdomen before being hospitalized from having the shit beaten out of her with a hammer. Not good enough for dealing with 400 lb young scholars with bright futures on hard drugs.
This man speaks the truth.
i mean show him this fucking thread if you have to.
A .410 is only sufficient for self defense against snakes and grouse, it would take several shots to kill a human, and ammo in .410 is some of the most expensive on the market, he’s better off with a cheap Mossberg 12 or 20ga.
maverick 88
next question
.410 is absolutely not adequate. Your dad is actually right to be trying to think about how his choice of firearm would be seen by a jury, especially in California, but .410 is not the solution.
12ga is the standard for defensive shotguns for a very good reason, but he wouldn't be bad off with a 20ga either.
>He weirdly wants a .410 shotgun for home defense because it's a smaller shotgun and he thinks it would look better if he had to use it in home defense
he's wrong. at that point just get a handgun or something
not like a 410 slug won't kill someone but its just a really dumb choice, and nobody is going to care about the difference between 410 and 12ga in court
if he really cares all that much about muh optics just have him get something like a mossberg with wood furniture
>$606
What part of "under 600" from OP don't you get?
Ash grew a goatee and got glasses?
>wahhh its 6 dollars more
fine buy an 88 and ebay a wood stock
>I don't know what msrp means
get out noguns
Where to cop that forend, my 500 Field came with a kind of shitty forend that's too slick
pretty sure mossberg doesnt sell wood furniture kits but look around ebay and gunbroker
It's been said, but Maverick 88 can be had for under $300 if you shop sales. Get some wood furniture if he thinks it looks too tactical for a jury.
Make sure to take him out to the range regularly, anon.
Maverick 88 or any other American made or Italian shotgun (Benelli Nova)
.410 in a pump or semi would be adequate. 3-5 000 buck (.36 caliber) from one shell is going to give anyone a bad day. Its not the best choice, but it would suffice.
As others have said, Maverick 88 for better and cheap.
I live in San Diego California, I got a Mossberg 500 Persuader in 12ga from Turner's Outdoorsman for $350 (which is considered outlandishly expensive by national standards)
You should make your dad get 12ga and not .410 like a fucking idiot, you can get Maverick 88s for $250 (again, wildly overpriced when the same thing goes for like 100 bucks in Arizona or Florida)
Buy a 12 gauge, load it with buck. The hunting gun is a much better excuse than just "410 is a small bullet". Get him a permit even if he does not intend to hunt, and get him the fuddiest shotgun you can find.
Maverick 88 security in 20 gauge is the compromise your dad is looking for OP. Can say it’s just for dove/quail.
This. 410 is such a typical choice of the idealist libtard "I just wanna stop him, not kill him" mindset.
Be practical and pick a caliber that is actually capable of *stopping*, with recoil soft enough that won't make your old man flinch, miss and hit something else.
Used Winchester 1300, with tube extension, loaded with 13-15 mini-shells.
12 ga bargain bin O/U
Auto 5 in sweet 16. Looks good to the jury and is foolproof firepower. There is no benefit to NOT having a semi automatic weapon for home defense and the auto 5 has the "just grandaddys wood clad shotgun" look to it for the jury.
See Paul Harrells vids on home defense shotguns for guage justification though 12 guage is also fine and probably easier to find.
>browning Auto 5
>$1500+
>OP said $600 or less
retard confirmed
>sees recommendation
>checks manufacturer website for price
>oh no that's how much it costs and there is no way I could ever buy it for less than that amount
Are you just OP samefagging at everyone who tries to help you, have you just never bought anything ever? Get the fuck out of here until you're old enough to drive.
No retard, I'm not OP. Looked it up on GB and GI. Choke on a dick, retard.
>I looked up the price on GB
>price is exactly what it was originally said to be
>but you are the retard here
I hope puberty will be terrible for you
>weirdly wants a .410 shotgun for home defense because it's a smaller shotgun and he thinks it would look better if he had to use it in home defense.
Don't. As long as it's not Saiga-410.
>Pump action
Why not semi auto?
>Not a single shot
Wgy not a double barrel?
t. Not American
If I had to choose a home defense shotgun while having full set of rights to bear arms, I'd love to use either a double shotgun with ejectors or a decent semiauto. Ejectors make the reload quicker and with semiauto you would reliably reload all your ammo.
If you can't own auto shotguns, a brilliant option would be TOZ-106. Bolt action, 20 gauge meaning more punch than .410, boomer friendly. Basically a legal obrez.
.410 is a really odd choice, I would attempt to convince him to get a 20 guage at the very least hell even a 28 guage but good luck finding a good cheap pump for it.
A 20 guage is readily avaliable and would be much better for what he wants, but if he is absolutely deadset on a .410 the mossberg 500 is basically your only real option outside of old savages or maybe stevens but those are pawn shop specials that you would need to hunt for.
The Mossbergs go for maybe $400 new and used are half that, the stevens and savage's are maybe $200 could be more or less and just really depends what you can find.
Tell your dad that if he uses anything in self defense it’ll look equally bad/good, based on situation not caliber… get his ass a 12 gauge, probably go with something Turkish with decent made parts, stock up on ammo and fuck the 410, that’s literally a peashooter
>if you love your father, buy him a. 12 gauge
He should by a business class plane ticket for $600 out of California to a state where he can buy a rifle instead. Shotguns are AIDs for anything other than hunting. Ammo is expensive as fuck, they're loud as fuck (imagine shooting one inside without earpro in a defensive situation), 6 +1 shots only, and I'd imagine the recoil would be a little much for an old person to handle effectively.
you can buy semi auto 5.56 rifles in cali
A 12 gauge isn’t as bad as a 16 inch 5.56 indoors.
how is a shotgun good for hunting but not defense?
I wouldn't want to go up against jamal and dequarius running dracos (fuck Century Arms for arming naggers) and auto seared Glocks with the rate of fire and capacity of a pump action.
Skill issue. Learn to aim.
That's a John Wick fantasy
>implying 5.56 isn't expensive right now
12ga is cheaper lmao, even a month ago it was cheaper
Get him the cheapest .22 lr gun or rifle, at least for training in operating and maintaining a firearm for the cheapest ammo cost possible. Low recoil, noob friendly, it will be reassuring to feel in control for someone who might have some qualm towards firearms.
Maverick 88 or Mossberg 500.
>He weirdly wants a .410 shotgun for home
LMAO. No. Tell him he's an idiot and should get a 12 gauge.
If he's in a self-defense situation that warrants using a firearm in self defense then you want a firearm that will stop the threat as quickly as possible.
Get some wood furniture for the shotgun if he's really worried about that.
Anon, I don't know how you exist if your dad is that gay.
12 gauge is really the right option, as everyone above has stated, but it's a bit of a learning curve to go from noguns to 12 gauge, so you're going to have to make him man up and train until he can at least get a couple rounds on target in reasonable time. It's not that 12 gauge is too much for a person, it's the reality that it's not like the movies where nobody has to deal with recoil so they can look cooler. 12 gauge needs to be trained with so you aren't going to stumble backwards the first time a future doctor jogs into your bedroom.
If it wasn't such a hassle to get a handgun that would be the better choice, if the only reason he wants the shotgun is for optics, tell him it doesn't fucking matter and he needs the right tool for the job of defending his life, not the one that makes him look less guilty.
If you're going for a pump gun, don't do smaller than 20ga. Not just because .410 is anemic, but it's also expensive as hell and your dad doesn't sound like the kind of person who'd be interested in loading their own shells. That said, I'd honestly recommend a 9mm ar or handgun in the current year since it works and you won't get reamed in ammo prices. Inb4 "muhsault wepinz ban" all you need to get around California's AR ban is a featureless grip and a compliant muzzle device. There are "muzzle breaks" that are are the exact same as an a2 flashhider but are legal because they aren't sold as such.
tell him to get 12ga or go fuck yer mudda
12 GA pump or auto, but idk the state of laws on autos in CA. I left in 2005.
You can do everything you want for under $600, including adding a light and sling, but your old man needs to not think about the exact dollar amount. It costs what it costs, deal with it. The only thing not already mentioned inna bread is that reduced recoil buckshot will kill Tyrone/Paco equally as dead as full power buck.
Tell him to get a prepared legal service (I recommend US Law Shield) and that will keep him from ever needing to go in front of a jury. Also tell him not to be a cheap fuck when he buys a light.
Magazine fed semiautos are b& but tube-fed are generally ok
Thanks king. Any tube limit? Because a 1301 with light, optic, and accessories is cheaper than my cheapest AR so I'd say just splurge on a Gucci auto and call it a day.
Ten shells according to the size of shot shell it's meant to shoot, so of it says 10 3" shells, then it's fine but if the same tube is labelled for 11 2.75", even if it's the same tube it's a no-go. That said, you can build an featureless AR for $400 or less if you shop around.
Thanks king. Bottom line I guess is that a Benelli or Beretta auto is the best option for HD in California these days.
not sure that a 70 year old is really going to handle a shotgun too well if it's his first gun. maybe get him to a range and see what kind of recoil he can handle first.
410 is perfectly adequate but for economic and availability issues I would still recommend 12 ga
^this. I tried telling these morons the same thing earlier
20 ga semi-auto for his situation, 00 buck or single-aught if you can find it at a reasonable price. You want 5+1 x 3" shells. Get him out on a range & put about 200 to 500 shells through it with various loads (over the course of 2 or 3 months, all in one day is stupid). If you've other guns, go with him & get him to at least try some other options.
.410 will just piss most people off.
As an older guy who never handled guns before, semi-auto is the way to go. Developing muscle memory to automatically pump for each shot (under stress) takes time & lots of shells. Better to focus on shooting accuracy with a semi-auto. 20 ga also has the benefit of being substantially lighter to shoot than 12, so it'll handle with "only a bit more" power & recoil than a .410 and should be easy for him to control.
20 ga will fit the bill for "appearances," which seems to be the argument for .410. If it's NOT 12 ga, that's all that's needed to check that box off. Easier to shoot, and whatever the news might report they can't use big scary 12 ga that blows you 20 feet backwards as part of the story. If appearances are a real factor here, dial back the taktikool look as much as is reasonably possible. If a photo of his shotgun somehow makes the news, much better if it looks like a hunting gun than Delta Force.
I keep a Remington 1100 for home defense. I've been shooting it for a very long time, like much more than only 10K shells through it (tons of skeet). It's loaded with 4+1 x 3" shells, Handload Specials. I'm pretty good shooting it one-handed, with either hand. If necessary. That's a good skill to develop. It appears to be a skeet gun, with an Imp. Cyl. choke & 20" barrel. Anyone closer than ~30 yards is going down in one shot if I'm using the 20 ga. But, I've a .357 and a 9 mm that are far more likely to get used first. Also have an 870 12 ga, but I really don't care about appearances.
And, I don't recommend a shotgun for primary home defense. Emergency back-up only.
While I agree that a 12g Maverick 88 is the correct answer for your dipshkt dad, there are a ton of people in this thread who have no idea what they're talking about when it come to the lethality of .410
>t. kill deer with .410 buckshot every year
.410 is a great option. The ammo has been insanely scarce for a few years now though.
I don't doubt the lethality, I'm sure he'll die. Later. In a couple of days. In the hospital. After he caves your head in.
When you have to defend yourself from a break-in it is generally in the dark, inside your home, at ranges of <30 ft. Most b&e's aren't done by competent sober dudes staging a heist to take your valuables, they are done by crackheads at 3 am that have mistaken your house for the all-you-can-rape 24 hr Popeyes. Deer aren't on fent and swinging a jogging hammer at your skull. 9 mm isn't good enough, .223 coming out of your 10.5" isn't good enough, .410 isn't good enough. You may only get one shot before they are on you. You want them dead on the ground after that shot.
Everything you said is correct except for the remark about .223 being an inadequate fight stopper from a short barrel. I don't think I've ever seen footage of it failing to stop someone with a boiler room hit. Ofc a 12 GA is the best option for OPs dad but still.
>absolutely terrible expansion properties
>same muzzle velocity as .22 mag from a 10.5”
Good luck with that. Wouldn’t bet my life on it.
>grain weight
Its more about causing massive tissue destruction and blood loss. Those things often correlate.
The only way to get 22 mag anywhere near 5.56 velocity is by using a 30 gr bullet. I don't think that you are going to find evidence of any use case where 5.56 out of a short barrel failed to immediately stop the threat. At this point it is pretty well proven with decades of data and evidence that 5.56, even out of a short barrel, is incredibly effective. It is the preferred cartridge for CQB by everyone who does it professionally for good reason.
People who do CQB professionally have ten other guys with 5.56 SBRs also hosing down each target with them. They aren’t doing it alone, woken from a deep sleep, unprepared, in their undies at 3 AM because they just heard a window break or a door kicked in. It’s a completely different fight. If you’re depending on getting an accurate CNS hit on someone with that round in those conditions: good luck. Wouldn’t bet my life on it.
You're an idiot, and it's not worth the bandwith to frivolously argue with you
I pray that you find more engaging conversation upon your return to Reddit.
>shoot a guy with my 10mm
>he pauses to check the grain count
>not high enough to kill
>instead he sucks my dick then calls me gay
Bros…
I built an ar10 for my boomer dad
He couldn’t assemble it
He wants to ban ar15s he thinks they’re just mass shooting guns
If I take that ar-10 apart he’ll never get it back together
Take the pump off the shotgun, and give it to the boomer, that thing is going to rot away in the closet and it’s never coming back together
i would not want 410 for self defense
t- has seen the pattern from a 410 judge
i would force him to get a 20guage like a 870 youth model if hes a serious pussy
its not hard to shoot and itll fuck up somebody good enough
Assume he wants 410 b/c of recoil. 410 ammo choices are limited and expensive.
I'd take him shooting so he can see what a 20 gauge is like, and would steer him to a 20 gauge if he's concerned about recoil.
> Semi-auto = lower recoil and faster follow up
> 20 gauge has more ammo available / cheaper
If recoils not the issue, then 12 gauge pump or semi would be better. Cheaper gun, more home defense ammo available.
If he knows nothing about guns then buy him a 88 mag 12g and tell him it's a .410. "Oh yeah this is the rare model that I found for a great deal"
>judge
Ffs get a PCC, Lel-Tek, Hi-Point, or whatever. Smaller, lighter, faster, easier to use by a recent hasguns with no time or will to train. Much easier than a shotgun or handgun.
And for the love of gun drop the gauge love, any gauge. Caliber is irrelevant as long as it's centerfire.
>Cali-compliant PCC
jesus christ don't do this
20 gauge will be easier for granpappy than a 12 gauge but packs a lot more punch than a .410. I think that would be a better option, but if he’s insistent .410 will still kill a man dead, just tell him to load it with slugs.
>It would look better
It doesn't matter what type of gun he uses. He could delete the dumb motherfucker with a Kentucky rifle chambered in .60. If he shoots at someone with ANY gun, he intends to kill that person, and that is the ONLY consideration the court will draw from it. He should therefore pick the gun that he is most likely to stop the other guy with, and that is definitely NOT .410. Tell your father to not be stupid and half-ass this. Guns are not toys and you do not shoot people with the intent to spare their lives. He is either shooting the person with an intent to kill them, or he is not shooting them, and he needs to get over that or he's just going to do something retarded.
yeah he's fuckin retarded anon, if your dad gets attacked he's probably not competent to defend himself if he has such a convoluted logical process in the first place.
Some of these anons are exaggerating, it is about the pattern you want. 410s can get very tight patterns with heavy buckshot and keep them at longer ranges than larger bore shotguns. That is about the only type of load that is lethal from a 410, and is not as suitable for home defense as no 4 or whatever comes out of 20 gauge