Modernized M60 For Ukraine

Since Russia is modernizing T-62s, why isn't America modernizing M60s for Ukraine? They have thousands of them lying around. Germany is sending Leopard 1s, it's time to make it interesting.

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Because America has an Abrams fleet that is worth more than the Russian GDP?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Meatball Ron says no more American support for the banderites.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      They have wunderwaffle armor that's no bueno

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        funny because we shipped our ex-USMC FEP Abrams to Poland without any issues

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Sending your classified tech to a NATO ally is very different from sending it to a third party actively at war with your rival.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          It is funny, bobr kurwas are the last people I thought would get the good shit

          • 1 year ago
            Yukari

            they even got m829a4

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Is 60 thousand a lot?

              • 1 year ago
                Yukari

                I'm no logistician but 102,000 rounds of APFSDS spread across 116 tanks sounds like a lot

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                I added it to 112,000. That's seems like a lot since they are only meant to fire at actual tanks and fire practice rounds for training.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >They have thousands of them lying around
    No, they don't.

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Because unlike the clownshow known as the Pussian ""army"", the US Army is a serious institution that values unit preservation. Why send obsolete hardware with cargo cult "modernization" that does nothing when perfectly modern hardware exists?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >cargo cult "modernization"
      >Sabra/m60-2000 is "cargo cult modernization"
      Anon, you should kys you are too ignorant to live on this earth.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Pussian ""army""
      Those damned Prussians. I hope Napoleon finally deals with them.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Turkey/Israel among others could sustain them with upgrade packages. A cheaper overmatch option for more fully equipping tank formations. What's made a difference in the conflict is night/thermal optics. The Abrams et. al. will be much bigger gas hogs than these would be as well.

      https://i.imgur.com/nITwlSt.jpg

      The US is literally producing M1's out of only political and economic reasons (and MIC corruption in congress) despite the Army having said years and years ago they have far more tanks than what they have use for.
      There are big lots of perfectly good Abrams tanks sitting (well) mothballed in the desert. Why not use them instead? They're modern and literally are of no use for the armed forces.

      >18 Dec 2014
      >A. Fricking. Decade.
      https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html

      Keeping the manufacturing capability in place can supersede that. And if there were ever something like another Carrington Event solar flare or EMP, Fortress America would 100% be invaded by Russia & China. In which case all of those would come in handy.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >And if there were ever something like another Carrington Event solar flare or EMP, Fortress America would 100% be invaded by Russia & China.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Those dastardly Prussians. I, for one, say the French should have at them.

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    we don't have any

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Thousands lying around
    Lol we gave them away to all our allies decades ago
    The only ones left are shot to shit after being used as range targets

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The US is literally producing M1's out of only political and economic reasons (and MIC corruption in congress) despite the Army having said years and years ago they have far more tanks than what they have use for.
    There are big lots of perfectly good Abrams tanks sitting (well) mothballed in the desert. Why not use them instead? They're modern and literally are of no use for the armed forces.

    >18 Dec 2014
    >A. Fricking. Decade.
    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html

    • 1 year ago
      Yukari

      >They have thousands of them lying around
      No we don't.

      yet another moron who read the headline and doesn't realize that they're not buying new tanks, Congress is giving money to UPGRADE the old tanks to newer variants. Unless you follow the Russian line of thinking that a 30 year old tank is just as good as a recently modernized one

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Oh yeah? Right back at ya.
        >Todd Harrison, a Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments analyst, said it was open to question whether the Army and the Marine Corps needed more tanks on top of the estimated 9,000 already in their inventories. However, he noted that it was not unusual for Congress to go against the military's recommendations on the budget.
        >[...]
        >The tank debate between the Army and Congress goes back to 2012 when Odierno testified that "we don't need the tanks. Our tank fleet is two and a half years old on average now. We're in good shape and these are additional tanks that we don't need."
        >Odierno lost then too. Congress voted for another $183 million for tanks despite Odierno's argument that the Army was seeking to become a lighter force. He told the Associated Press at the time that "if we had our choice, we would use that money in a different way" than spending it on 70-ton Abrams tanks.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Because the army hasn't used the tank plant for any refits since then and doesn't have any variants planned for upgrade.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          These aren't M60s they are M1xx and Bradleys and support vehicles. Surplus M60s were scrapped rather comprehensively as part of the peace dividend (or GDLS lobbying to eradicate competition on M1 sales).

          Some were turned into artificial reefs but I guess most were melted down. Capitalism has problems with holding onto old tanks, bit like holding onto old light bulbs, not an earner, prefer any activity.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I don't think the US even manufactures Abrams any more. Any new model is a total restoration of older hulls.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Poles are getting new builds soon. Brazil was offered the option of either upgraded old hulls or new builds too.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >MIC corruption in congress
      There is corruption in Congress alright, but it goes in the other direction - harassing and cancelling programs to make sure the US is prevented from pulling too far ahead of the countries bribing the congressmen.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Congress kept them production up and running because nobody wants to be responsible for voting to end it and cost thousands of jobs. Try running for re-election when your constituents in the shiny beacon of Lima, Ohio got the boot.
      Now that times are changing, countries are buying up Abrams so all the spending and effort on building and modernization older tanks has not been for naught.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >shiny beacon of Lima

        My grandpa told me once that Ohio produces the lowest quality White people in America because it's where all the German and North Euro migrants who were too dumb to cut it elsewhere ended up.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          She never got the chance to shine 🙁

          The lowest quality white people in this country are in the non costal French areas in the South.

          • 1 year ago
            Yukari

            The only countries interested in the M60-2000 were third world countries that didn't even have the caps to pay for it, and countries that could afford downgraded Abrams but wanted to be stingy about it until they got a nicer deal. It might have been a good tank destroyer and a decent fire support vehicle but as an actual tank it would have performed terribly with (comparatively) thin cast steel armor

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      MIC is use it ir lose it. Either we keep building tanks we don't need or we can't build tanks when we do need them. This is why Russia is currently modernizing t62s.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      realizing more and more that life is basically like a videogame
      from the war thunder footage out of Donbass
      to the congress just keeping the "subsidize factory" box checked because unrest will spike if they don't
      life truly imitates art

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      the US saved billions buying those extra Abrams because the plant would have to be shut down and restarted

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I've been wondering why Italy doesn't do the same, they have a couple hundred M60s lying around and developed an upgrade pacakage for it for export.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Why would an economically struggling Mediterranean nation totally detached from any risk Russia poses send military assistance to Ukraine when it can barely fund it's own military?

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Man these myths just don't die, do they?

    Have some fun from last year OP, after we drummed in to everyone that there are no M60s left.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      There are plenty of usable M60 left, just not in the US.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        1. Because the USA doesn't have any M60's. Egypt and Turkey have the most. They're not going to hand any over.
        2. Because Abrams are better.

        That's it, really.

        https://i.imgur.com/dv73BUI.jpg

        Since Russia is modernizing T-62s, why isn't America modernizing M60s for Ukraine? They have thousands of them lying around. Germany is sending Leopard 1s, it's time to make it interesting.

        Israel probably has some Magaches laying around still

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          They were scrapped last decade, and even if they weren't, they wouldn't give them.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >Israel
            >sending lethal aid to Ukraine
            Hell will sooner freeze over. Pre-war had Israeli drones in Russian operation. Ukraine did get some small stuff like some limited Tavor production and some Galil DMRs but Israel sells guns to anyone that has a wad of cash and a pulse.

            Most Israelis support Ukraine but Israel has a gigantic Russian minority who get absolutely buttblasted when Russia is critiqued.

            Israel told Ukraine to surrender to Russia. If you ever meat a moron vatnik who screams globohomosexual or israelites, point that out to them.

            But it is pretty much the same for Turkey. They wouldn't give their M60's. Egypt is anti-West because of the whole 'Bongs controlled their country even after independence' thing. They only don't support Russia directly because they rely on Ukrainian grain to survive and Russia fricked with that.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Most Israelis support Ukraine but Israel has a gigantic Russian minority who get absolutely buttblasted when Russia is critiqued.

              yet, when Iran started doing edgy things in Ukraine they probably share some more intel how to deal with Iranian drones for example.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Israel
          >sending lethal aid to Ukraine
          Hell will sooner freeze over. Pre-war had Israeli drones in Russian operation. Ukraine did get some small stuff like some limited Tavor production and some Galil DMRs but Israel sells guns to anyone that has a wad of cash and a pulse.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Most Israelis support Ukraine but Israel has a gigantic Russian minority who get absolutely buttblasted when Russia is critiqued.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        So totally fricking irrelevant to the thread then, thanks.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        More relevant than fictional Shermans, looking at other countries that have operated the tank generally follows the question which was answered in the second post.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I love the Sherman, too bad we'll never get to see this moronic thing exist.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I really need to get back to that cursed thing and make it 3d printable.

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >senate: You will get these new abrams and you will like them!
    >army: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Would modernized M60 be better than basic M1 Abrahams?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      there aren't any original m1s left so we could never say for sure, but most m60 modernization packages don't add much if any real armor, so the Abrams wins there by default

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Modernized M60 optics, particularly thermals, would be so much better then an original M1 that I'd rather drive the M60 and just rely on getting the first shot instead of taking it as the M1.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Nta, but apart from museum exhibits and gate guards, there aren't any baseline M1s left in existence.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Abrahams

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Tanks keep on getting made to ensure the manufacturing tooling and knowledge isnt lost. The last thing you need is for a war to break out and you gotta spend a ton of money and time setting and scaling up the factories again. It is what it is.

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Wow I have never seen a entire turret designed to be a shot trap.

    • 1 year ago
      RC-135 Rivet Joint

      >shot trap.

      in the era of fuzed HEAT and Sabots?

      dog its gonna crushed by impact angle or shatter the rod.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      APFSDS doesn't ricochet.

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >tank mods
    if this trend continues with modifications
    This war gonna looks like more like Gundam anime or Armored Core games
    With these endless crazy mods and overhaul on old armors

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    1. Because the USA doesn't have any M60's. Egypt and Turkey have the most. They're not going to hand any over.
    2. Because Abrams are better.

    That's it, really.

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >to get an edge over Russia, Ukraine should do exactly what Russia is doing
    >they're sure to win
    thats very moronic of you anon

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    They already using T-55's

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    It would make more sense to give them to Taiwan since their forces already use the platform.

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    An M60 made of Legos?

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    M48A5 would be more analogous to T-62Ms, though even then the A5s have better optics.
    That said, M60A3 SLEP (or even TTS) would be great infantry-support weapons given that they use them correctly and don't hope to catch any hits with them; and could possibly deal with tanks that ain't newer than a T-80U (unless they have the 120 gun which would get you good chances with all things under T-90A).

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Modernized M60 For Ukraine
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60-2000

  21. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I wonder if Thailand ever thought of offering to sell back T84s to Ukraine to get on Americas good side for F35s.

  22. 1 year ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous
      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        what's the danger posed to the crew and vehicle by an ammunition explosion in an abrams? and how likely would one be to occur in the event of a hit?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Worst case scenario is getting hit while the shield is open and loader is getting a new round.
          Otherwise it just shoots out of the top of the tank

  23. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >why isn't America modernizing M60s for Ukraine?
    Because we don't have M60s. Not even in deep storage.

  24. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Is being a boneyard restorer a respectable job in the US military?

    I bet tons of Bradleys, M113s, Strykers and other non-Abrams are being refurbished and reactivated 24/7.

    I bet Ukraine will get LCACs too in the future liberation of Crimea, there's a shitton of them in the desert all deflated.

  25. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    All the M60s in America were scrapped years ago. They do have thousands of Abrams lying around.

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