Since Russia is modernizing T-62s, why isn't America modernizing M60s for Ukraine? They have thousands of them lying around. Germany is sending Leopard 1s, it's time to make it interesting.
Modernized M60 For Ukraine
Since Russia is modernizing T-62s, why isn't America modernizing M60s for Ukraine? They have thousands of them lying around. Germany is sending Leopard 1s, it's time to make it interesting.
Because America has an Abrams fleet that is worth more than the Russian GDP?
Meatball Ron says no more American support for the banderites.
They have wunderwaffle armor that's no bueno
funny because we shipped our ex-USMC FEP Abrams to Poland without any issues
Sending your classified tech to a NATO ally is very different from sending it to a third party actively at war with your rival.
It is funny, bobr kurwas are the last people I thought would get the good shit
they even got m829a4
Is 60 thousand a lot?
I'm no logistician but 102,000 rounds of APFSDS spread across 116 tanks sounds like a lot
I added it to 112,000. That's seems like a lot since they are only meant to fire at actual tanks and fire practice rounds for training.
>They have thousands of them lying around
No, they don't.
Because unlike the clownshow known as the Pussian ""army"", the US Army is a serious institution that values unit preservation. Why send obsolete hardware with cargo cult "modernization" that does nothing when perfectly modern hardware exists?
>cargo cult "modernization"
>Sabra/m60-2000 is "cargo cult modernization"
Anon, you should kys you are too ignorant to live on this earth.
>Pussian ""army""
Those damned Prussians. I hope Napoleon finally deals with them.
Turkey/Israel among others could sustain them with upgrade packages. A cheaper overmatch option for more fully equipping tank formations. What's made a difference in the conflict is night/thermal optics. The Abrams et. al. will be much bigger gas hogs than these would be as well.
Keeping the manufacturing capability in place can supersede that. And if there were ever something like another Carrington Event solar flare or EMP, Fortress America would 100% be invaded by Russia & China. In which case all of those would come in handy.
>And if there were ever something like another Carrington Event solar flare or EMP, Fortress America would 100% be invaded by Russia & China.
Those dastardly Prussians. I, for one, say the French should have at them.
we don't have any
>Thousands lying around
Lol we gave them away to all our allies decades ago
The only ones left are shot to shit after being used as range targets
The US is literally producing M1's out of only political and economic reasons (and MIC corruption in congress) despite the Army having said years and years ago they have far more tanks than what they have use for.
There are big lots of perfectly good Abrams tanks sitting (well) mothballed in the desert. Why not use them instead? They're modern and literally are of no use for the armed forces.
>18 Dec 2014
>A. Fucking. Decade.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html
>They have thousands of them lying around
No we don't.
yet another retard who read the headline and doesn't realize that they're not buying new tanks, Congress is giving money to UPGRADE the old tanks to newer variants. Unless you follow the Russian line of thinking that a 30 year old tank is just as good as a recently modernized one
Oh yeah? Right back at ya.
>Todd Harrison, a Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments analyst, said it was open to question whether the Army and the Marine Corps needed more tanks on top of the estimated 9,000 already in their inventories. However, he noted that it was not unusual for Congress to go against the military's recommendations on the budget.
>[...]
>The tank debate between the Army and Congress goes back to 2012 when Odierno testified that "we don't need the tanks. Our tank fleet is two and a half years old on average now. We're in good shape and these are additional tanks that we don't need."
>Odierno lost then too. Congress voted for another $183 million for tanks despite Odierno's argument that the Army was seeking to become a lighter force. He told the Associated Press at the time that "if we had our choice, we would use that money in a different way" than spending it on 70-ton Abrams tanks.
Because the army hasn't used the tank plant for any refits since then and doesn't have any variants planned for upgrade.
These aren't M60s they are M1xx and Bradleys and support vehicles. Surplus M60s were scrapped rather comprehensively as part of the peace dividend (or GDLS lobbying to eradicate competition on M1 sales).
Some were turned into artificial reefs but I guess most were melted down. Capitalism has problems with holding onto old tanks, bit like holding onto old light bulbs, not an earner, prefer any activity.
I don't think the US even manufactures Abrams any more. Any new model is a total restoration of older hulls.
Poles are getting new builds soon. Brazil was offered the option of either upgraded old hulls or new builds too.
>MIC corruption in congress
There is corruption in Congress alright, but it goes in the other direction - harassing and cancelling programs to make sure the US is prevented from pulling too far ahead of the countries bribing the congressmen.
Congress kept them production up and running because nobody wants to be responsible for voting to end it and cost thousands of jobs. Try running for re-election when your constituents in the shiny beacon of Lima, Ohio got the boot.
Now that times are changing, countries are buying up Abrams so all the spending and effort on building and modernization older tanks has not been for naught.
>shiny beacon of Lima
My grandpa told me once that Ohio produces the lowest quality White people in America because it's where all the German and North Euro migrants who were too dumb to cut it elsewhere ended up.
She never got the chance to shine 🙁
The lowest quality white people in this country are in the non costal French areas in the South.
The only countries interested in the M60-2000 were third world countries that didn't even have the caps to pay for it, and countries that could afford downgraded Abrams but wanted to be stingy about it until they got a nicer deal. It might have been a good tank destroyer and a decent fire support vehicle but as an actual tank it would have performed terribly with (comparatively) thin cast steel armor
MIC is use it ir lose it. Either we keep building tanks we don't need or we can't build tanks when we do need them. This is why Russia is currently modernizing t62s.
realizing more and more that life is basically like a videogame
from the war thunder footage out of Donbass
to the congress just keeping the "subsidize factory" box checked because unrest will spike if they don't
life truly imitates art
the US saved billions buying those extra Abrams because the plant would have to be shut down and restarted
I've been wondering why Italy doesn't do the same, they have a couple hundred M60s lying around and developed an upgrade pacakage for it for export.
Why would an economically struggling Mediterranean nation totally detached from any risk Russia poses send military assistance to Ukraine when it can barely fund it's own military?
Man these myths just don't die, do they?
Have some fun from last year OP, after we drummed in to everyone that there are no M60s left.
There are plenty of usable M60 left, just not in the US.
Israel probably has some Magaches laying around still
They were scrapped last decade, and even if they weren't, they wouldn't give them.
Israel told Ukraine to surrender to Russia. If you ever meat a retard vatnik who screams globohomo or garden gnomes, point that out to them.
But it is pretty much the same for Turkey. They wouldn't give their M60's. Egypt is anti-West because of the whole 'Bongs controlled their country even after independence' thing. They only don't support Russia directly because they rely on Ukrainian grain to survive and Russia fucked with that.
yet, when Iran started doing edgy things in Ukraine they probably share some more intel how to deal with Iranian drones for example.
>Israel
>sending lethal aid to Ukraine
Hell will sooner freeze over. Pre-war had Israeli drones in Russian operation. Ukraine did get some small stuff like some limited Tavor production and some Galil DMRs but Israel sells guns to anyone that has a wad of cash and a pulse.
Most Israelis support Ukraine but Israel has a gigantic Russian minority who get absolutely buttblasted when Russia is critiqued.
So totally fucking irrelevant to the thread then, thanks.
More relevant than fictional Shermans, looking at other countries that have operated the tank generally follows the question which was answered in the second post.
I love the Sherman, too bad we'll never get to see this retarded thing exist.
I really need to get back to that cursed thing and make it 3d printable.
>senate: You will get these new abrams and you will like them!
>army: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Would modernized M60 be better than basic M1 Abrahams?
there aren't any original m1s left so we could never say for sure, but most m60 modernization packages don't add much if any real armor, so the Abrams wins there by default
Modernized M60 optics, particularly thermals, would be so much better then an original M1 that I'd rather drive the M60 and just rely on getting the first shot instead of taking it as the M1.
Nta, but apart from museum exhibits and gate guards, there aren't any baseline M1s left in existence.
>Abrahams
Tanks keep on getting made to ensure the manufacturing tooling and knowledge isnt lost. The last thing you need is for a war to break out and you gotta spend a ton of money and time setting and scaling up the factories again. It is what it is.
Wow I have never seen a entire turret designed to be a shot trap.
>shot trap.
in the era of fuzed HEAT and Sabots?
dog its gonna crushed by impact angle or shatter the rod.
APFSDS doesn't ricochet.
>tank mods
if this trend continues with modifications
This war gonna looks like more like Gundam anime or Armored Core games
With these endless crazy mods and overhaul on old armors
1. Because the USA doesn't have any M60's. Egypt and Turkey have the most. They're not going to hand any over.
2. Because Abrams are better.
That's it, really.
>to get an edge over Russia, Ukraine should do exactly what Russia is doing
>they're sure to win
thats very retarded of you anon
They already using T-55's
It would make more sense to give them to Taiwan since their forces already use the platform.
An M60 made of Legos?
M48A5 would be more analogous to T-62Ms, though even then the A5s have better optics.
That said, M60A3 SLEP (or even TTS) would be great infantry-support weapons given that they use them correctly and don't hope to catch any hits with them; and could possibly deal with tanks that ain't newer than a T-80U (unless they have the 120 gun which would get you good chances with all things under T-90A).
>Modernized M60 For Ukraine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60-2000
I wonder if Thailand ever thought of offering to sell back T84s to Ukraine to get on Americas good side for F35s.
what's the danger posed to the crew and vehicle by an ammunition explosion in an abrams? and how likely would one be to occur in the event of a hit?
Worst case scenario is getting hit while the shield is open and loader is getting a new round.
Otherwise it just shoots out of the top of the tank
>why isn't America modernizing M60s for Ukraine?
Because we don't have M60s. Not even in deep storage.
Is being a boneyard restorer a respectable job in the US military?
I bet tons of Bradleys, M113s, Strykers and other non-Abrams are being refurbished and reactivated 24/7.
I bet Ukraine will get LCACs too in the future liberation of Crimea, there's a shitton of them in the desert all deflated.
All the M60s in America were scrapped years ago. They do have thousands of Abrams lying around.