Mid size gantry/hoist driving mechanism

I'm trying to build a large gantry similar to pic related. It's going to travel along one or two guide rails, and have a motor powered lift essentially being able to rise and lower at different stations. But I'm not sure where to start,

What are those belt things doing the lifting called? Are they essentially servo motors acting like hoists?

What's driving the linear movement? Is it rack and pinion?

What type of motors would be best for this? I'm trying to make it automated, extreme precision isnt necessary, but the linear axis will be traveling a few feet at a time. So I'm not sure steppers come in a large enough size or would be required. The payload would be 150 pounds max.

Something just like this, would it be two servo motors?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    im not really following you, but automating this is going to be quite difficult. my factories still have button pushers.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The automating part won't be so bad, if it's a servo with a multi turn encoder, would just need a homer and the process can be coded out. I just have no idea how to choose the motor to drive the gantry along the beam(s). I see servos for sale but they look nothing like the ones ive seen these gantry use (maybe it's the gearbox that makes them look different? And i cant tell if they're using a rack and pinion for the driving mechanism or what. Would be much easier to control steppers for a small gantry but these look to be much larger

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >my factories still have

      I meant to say "most" factories. I have a simple 4 bagging machine setup.

      The automating part won't be so bad, if it's a servo with a multi turn encoder, would just need a homer and the process can be coded out. I just have no idea how to choose the motor to drive the gantry along the beam(s). I see servos for sale but they look nothing like the ones ive seen these gantry use (maybe it's the gearbox that makes them look different? And i cant tell if they're using a rack and pinion for the driving mechanism or what. Would be much easier to control steppers for a small gantry but these look to be much larger

      >The automating part won't be so bad,

      You don't think controlling speed, position, lowering, raising, lateral movement is going to be difficult? I am having trouble seeing how all that can be down without a brain and computer programming? You know how to control all these with various meters?

      I'm not sure how experienced you are, but do you know your power requirements? You are going to need 3-phase motors and 3 phase power at the very least.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I have PLC experience so various sensors would be used but the servo drivers on some modules are pretty great and with an encoder watching that movement is possible with some ladder logic.

        >You are going to need 3-phase motors and 3 phase power at the very least.

        Think so? This is the part I'm having trouble figuring out. I guess i have to work out the math but i was hoping for single phase to drive the lateral movement (150 pounds for the whole hoist assembly movement) and the actual hoist would only carry like 80-100 pounds max.

        All the electric winches i find online for cars are 24dc and have a lifting capacity of like 2000 pounds. This would be overkill though, and potentially dangerous, so I'm unsure about finding this motor too. The motors I'm finding for the lateral movement are also for extreme precision, this machine's stops needn't be very accurate.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >Think so?

          that's my understanding. I really don't know a lot, but my father was a sales engineer for an electronics distributor, and told me to buy 3 phase motors for everything. Without 3-phase you won't be able to control the speed of the motor, or use meters to their full potential - those meters can regulate all sorts of load limits and stuff.

          why don't you consider calling an electric supply company and talk to an engineer?

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    the part I'm unable to find is where to get parts for a trolley system to mount to rails that can extend over 20 feet. And a motor assembly to drive this, it seems to be custom made/fabricated by the companies that design these.

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Orientalmotor has various calculator programs to determine forces required, very helpful. Some of the variables will seem extra but its worth going to the trouble to calculate out.

    Drive could be belt, rack/pinion, screw. Each has its benefits and negatives. Probably rack/pinion at this size/length/forces. Linear rails can be as simple as angle iron and v shaped wheels.

    Servos are expensive, especially at that size, and really only necessary for extreme accuracy and/or feedback. Consider a dc motor or ac with drive, especially if product can be located via sensors or other means.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Thanks anon, i will check this out. And i think you're right, do you think a rack and pinion would also work with the lifting and lowering mechanism? Perhaps a motor driving a vertical rack and pinion with a brake involves? With the same type of motor with limit switches involved

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        For lifting I think of a winch type system, but a screw might be better. Youre going to need significant mechanical advantage, and past a certain pitch screws cant be back driven. You dont want to rely on a brake for holding that much weight if you can avoid it.

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The big problem is usually software, you have design safety into the thing or it will break or kill, unless you're using manual controls

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >The big problem is usually software,

      OP is significantly underestimating the difficulty of automating this process. as someone mentioned, most factories still have people operators running machines because programing a system with all the needed parts is expensive for large companies. the video you posted has significant programming. You lack of experience makes you ignorant of that. That line has all sorts of safety speed changes and there are probably sensors all over it.

      > you have design safety into the thing or it will break or kill

      without VFDs your machine is going to go full on or off and be slamming into shit.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >OP is significantly underestimating the difficulty of automating this proces
        Every line of the safety regulations for these things are written in blood.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        You/Your

        But I'm not OP? Or am I? I don't think I am.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >You/Your

          I was references OP, that thought automating million dollar equipment is easy peezy

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        I understand the need for safety, however I'm dealing with a 100-150 maximum payload. The stakes aren't that high. As I've said, a PLC can automate this easily as long as a dozen or so proximity sensors are installed all along the machine at appropriate stopping locations. This along with many timers to watch the movement and control the stopping and starting of the two motors to allow for smooth operation is not the simplest task (ie alarm and stop if hoistassembly isn't seen after x time after being given y steps or z location), but it's a hell of a lot easier than it used to be when all the timers and such used to require individual relays and a shit ton of wiring. Along with over overcompensating safety into the logic, i plan on including a pull safety system and a high safety factor oh the hoist especially. Audio and visual indications will be important prior to the start of a batch process. I've seen these machines sold online in the 25k-50k range. I may be able to reduce the payload maximum and use smaller motors, depending on the hoist assembly.

        You're probably right though and I'll be shitting myself the next few months trying to get this figured out. Going to have to break out the old mechanical engineering textbooks, i hope i don't need any VFDs.. there are some good servo driver modules, rack and pinion doesn't seem to require too much torque at this payload.

        Will look into rack and pinion as the linear driver.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >i hope i don't need any VFDs.

          why? VFDs are cheap and provide way more functionality and if you get 3 phase power you can control the speed without a million servos.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Why not look at some patents for similar ganry crane systems and take inspiration from there?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Excellent idea, hadn't thought of this. Thank you

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