Marders for Ukraine?

Does this make sense, or are german politicians hiding behind red tape again?

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Shit, I forgot the link:
    https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/rheinmetall-marder-101.html

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They need to send the entire batch of 80 or so, otherwise it just becomes another logistics burden.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        These are enough to start training

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They know this that's why only 16 are free demos

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >otherwise it just becomes another logistics burden
        Honestly NATO should only send Bradleys and Abramses should they ever decide to send modern western MBT/IFVs over. America has lots of these in storage and lots of spare parts. It'd also be easier on the Ukrainians since they'd only have to learn how to maintain one new type of vehicle. Imagine the nightmare if they had to maintain a fleet of BMPs, Bradleys, Warriors and Marders.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Abramses
          I agree with your post but bro do you English?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don't know what the plural of Abrams. ;_;

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              In English the typical way to denote a plural of something ending in 's' or 'z' is to put an apostrophe after it.

              Abrams'. No extra 's' needed.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What if I said "send a lot of the Abrams"

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's fine, technically you need the ' but no one cares and they probably don't know any better anyway.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                no he doesn't 's and s' are indicative of a noun being possessive
                "Send a lot of Abrams" is completely grammatically correct, unless the statement was something like
                "Send a lot of Abrams' parts"
                and even then it's debatable if possessive is necessary.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It doesn't fucking matter. You understood his point. If you cannot take typos or improper grammar on an international board then fuck off.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No, that's to denote the possessive form. The plural of Abrams is Abrams. You infer whether it is one or many based on the context it's used in. For example, "An Abrams destroyed some communist filth" - you can see it's singular because of "an". Another example: "I hope the USA sends some Abrams to Ukraine so we can see them rolling down the ruins of Moscow" - you can see it's plural based on "some" and "them".

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >PrepHole, a grammatical place.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >that's to denote the possessive form.
                no, not wihout the 's'

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          We only send our good shit where we control the air and can bomb anything that might get captured.
          We can't send the good shit to Ukraine because we aren't in the air to make sure they aren't captured.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Any decent truck mechanic given the pubs can figure out most maintenance on wear parts. Playing swaptronics with the electronics if you have spares isn't hideous for anything (career USAF maintainer here). The US spends much irrelevant effort turning noobs into soldiery while training them but strictly concentrating on tech training and hitting it hard doing 12hr shifts is quite practical. Young men fighting for their nation have ample energy and military tech is fun to work on.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Those would be for starting training while the other 70 are being restored. So that by the time they are all operational, they can be deployed right away.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        if they are used for guard duty and not on front line it does not matter that much - they can for example secure parts Belarus border with service center in Poland
        that would make sense

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Does Ukraine want them?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They'll probably give them to Greece instead so the Greeks could in return send their BMPs to Ukraine.

      Not really. They usually ask for Leopards 2 instead.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Ukraine literally said they don't need Leopard 2s

        Does Ukraine want them?

        They oprate M113s already, Marders are much better than those.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Ukraine literally said they don't need Leopard 2s
          And they've literally asked for Leopards 2 twice in the last month.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Go ask for Abrams instead.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Ukraine literally said they don't need Leopard 2s
          Ukraine said they don't need Leopards 2 if Spain sends only 20 of them

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, and how many would Germany would be willing to send?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Spaniard here.
            My country supposedly had 50-70 Leo 2s in storage, and the story goes that they're in terrible condition and unusable.
            But I think they've been gutted for parts sold to Turkey in secret or something like that, because we do not store military harware in open air depots.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >we do not store military harware in open air depots
              what are you scared of, pussy

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >what are you scared of,
                1.corrosion
                2.terrorist stealing stuff
                3.the press finding out somebody sell out military stuff to a "bad" country for a nice cut of the bill.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >best i can do is tree fiddy

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              meant for

              Yes, and how many would Germany would be willing to send?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Marders are much better than those.
          >can only transport 7 dudes
          >measly 20mm gun
          >no AT missile
          >still dies to anything the Russians have

          Yes, and how many would Germany would be willing to send?

          They specifically also asked for Germany to allow other counties to send Leopards. You could easily get 100 Leopard 2 tanks from Spanish, Dutch, Greek and German storages.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >measily 20mm
            >no AT missile
            can't tell if retarded or just trolling

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            They still provide the Ukrainians an option for maneuver warfare. I believe the Marder 1A3 can stand up to 12.7mm all around and 20mm from the front. Shit also comes with decent optics, first and second gen thermals depending on the variant and an aux machine gun. Seems like a decent platform for a Battalion level op where it can perform a mechanized infantry role, a hunter killer role or a force recon role. Also it is just better than the basic .50 Gavin so there would be no reason for Ukraine not to take a batch if provided spare parts to keep em running. Fuck if nothing else those things have a pretty good top speed so they could use them as another logistics platform lol. Better than the WW2 6x6s that Russians are pulling our.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              that pic is 1950s swiss Saurer 2DM truck not a Opel Blitz

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            20mm gun
            >>no AT missile
            dies to anything the Russians have
            M113 has less than the 20mm, no AT and will also dies to most everything the russians have.
            By your own logic the M113 is just as shit.
            I don't believe that, but that's because I recognize that the Marder is an IFV and the M113 is a metal box on treads for moving things.

          • 2 weeks ago
            /out/ie

            >Then my backpack fell down and i had to jog 20 miles through enemy territory to get it back.
            >Those morale patches are worth it that much to me.
            >What a day that night was.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          literally said they don't need Leopard 2s

          They directly asked for them in the last week.
          I believe they were also asking for other things like Marder, Fuchs and Fennek.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Jesus what a terrible deal

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The BMP with a twin-AA gun or giving Marders to Greece so they give BMPs to Ukraine?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Giving Marders to Greece only to then send the BMP-1's to Ukraine.
            I mean I get the idea, Ukes would be familiar with the BMP's, but at the same time it feels both more productive and honestly safer for the potential crews to just train them on Marders then make a logistics nightmare of scraping BMP's from all the Aegean islands and then send them to Ukraine (only after Grease has gotten the Marders).
            Honestly putting the AA guns on them made them better then anything, more useable firepower compared to the 76mm gun.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Is the 76mm really this bad?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                A 76mm BMP1 killed a Bradley in Desert Storm.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Such a thing would never happen to a Warrior

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        i cant be the only one that thinks that looks stupid, the gunners are almost completely exposed

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          perfectly adequate for shooting at Turkish helicopters and landing boats

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They want anything that can stop a shell splinter.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      British send some fv103 to Ukraine isn't it basically the same thing as a marder ?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nah fv103 is a recon vehicle the Spartan model is pretty good for getting specialist AT or AA teams about. I think it's 3 crew + 4 dismounts, it's also fast as fuck.
        Marder is an IFV.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They were asking for them since the beginning. Why do you think Germany was taking so much flak, despite sending all that stuff? It just took forever, and at one point it even looked like Germans would rather scrap the Marders, than give them to Ukraine.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Why do you think Germany was taking so much flak
        Bitter slavs and Russian agitators

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          German bureaucracy deserves all the flak it can get, and some more.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Germany still operates Marder itself, they haven't all been replaced by Puma yet.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Why do you think Germany was taking so much flak
        Scholz sucks at communication. It's not only limited to Ukraine. He also sucks when it comes to domestic policies. Makes the reporters seeth at him.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Anon, ukies storm villages on HUMVEE, it looks cool but they need AFV.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        They have hundreds if not thousands of afvs dude.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Most IVFs and APCs don't live too long near the frontline. Constant shelling destroys everything. The units that are holding Bakhmut and Avdiivka have to buy SUVs every week just to keep the supply lines going.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ok, so what's the point of having 16 marders then? To add to the burden it needs three different ammo types.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              The point is to save lives. Armour is armour.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Armour that is useless if you don't have enough spare parts and technicians to repair it

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You retard you just said
                >Constant shelling destroys everything.
                Do you think a Marder would survive an arty hit?
                It's more of a hassle than it is usefull in such small numbers you need:
                >HE 20mm AP 20mm 7.62 Nato
                >Spares
                >Training on the vehicle
                All of that carries substantial logistical strain compared to a BMP2 that granted has less armour but gets the job done the same which they have hundreds if not thousands of.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Do you think a Marder would survive an arty hit?
                The men inside could survive it, even if an indirect. The point is to save lives of the soldiers, not the Marder, retard.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Don't reply the next time you made yourself look retarded just walk away it's an anonymous board.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I could suggest you the same.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Bro you said
                >"IFVs and APCs Don't last"
                >+16 marder, they also die the same fate as BMPs
                >"Armour is Armour"
                The whole point is that 16 Marder would be more of a hindrance than BMPs they have in abundance, but your too stupid to realise that.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Do you think a Marder would survive an arty hit?
                No, of course not. Will it stop shell fragments, rifle caliber rounds, and autocannon fire from the front? Yes. It has armor for a reason, retard.
                >HE 20mm AP 20mm 7.62 Nato
                Both are NATO standardized and available by the millions from literally dozens of countries, including many non-aligned ones.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >All of that carries substantial logistical strain compared to a BMP2 that granted has less armour but gets the job done the same
                Are you retarded or somthing the anon was stating it has 0 benefit over a BMP and you just skimmed his post and sperged out.
                >Both are NATO standardized and available by the millions from literally dozens of countries
                At this point it is blatantly obvious I am speaking to a brain dead individual, just because the ammunition is available from X country doesn't make it a logistical strain. The Vatnik shit cans share ammo commonality so one Ukie truck can be loaded with 30mm for BTR4 BTR82 and BMP.
                But no a retard like you who is probably the procurement minister for the Indian armed forces wants to throw 3 more new different ammo types that only work with one type of vehicle of which only 16 will be available.
                How can you be so dumb.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That anon was objecting to
                >"The point is to save lives. Armour is armour".
                by rhetorically asking if a Marder could survive a direct hit from a piece of artillery which is retarded. "It's no more armored than a BMP" is not an argument against providing Marders to Ukraine. Marders are needed because there aren't sufficient BMPs to meet Ukraine's needs. Anything that is more armored than a pickup truck is an improvement over what a large number of Ukrainian units are currently using.
                >3 more new different ammo types that only work with one type of vehicle
                Apart from the dozens upon dozens of other vehicles and weapons which use that caliber, several of which are already in use by Ukraine. "Muh logistical burden" is a braindead argument when the Ukrainians are already using large quantities of that ammunition. And please go look up the weapons Ukraine has already been provided and then for good measure, google "STANAG 4136" and "STANAG 2310". It might stop you from saying something as fundamentally retarded as 20x138mm and 7.62x51 "only work with one type of vehicle".

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Objecting to armour is armour
                No he literally wasn't, he was saying that the Marder provides no benefit over the BMP they have hundreds of. The slight increase Marder armour benefit is outweighed by the logistical hindrance of the spare parts and ammunition types it needs.
                >Not sufficient BMPs
                There are hundreds if not thousands of BMPs in Ukraines arsenal still.
                >Anything above armoured pickup is usefull
                Yeh I agree, but somthing that requires a whole new logistics chain that needs lots of maintainance and ammo types such as an IFV is not. Huskies, Mastiffs M113s are fine because they were donated in big numbers and have spares sent with them. 16 Marders that have taken 6 months to prepare by already scraping together what parts they have in inventory will almost certainly have the bare minimum sent with it.
                >Ukrainians are already using large quantities of that ammunition.
                >dozens upon dozens of other vehicles
                Tell me what vehicle Ukraine has that uses 20x138mm HE and AP in large numbers you spastic. Logistics win wars, you havent a clue.
                >Fundamentally retarded
                Yes you are, given my whole argument can be backed up by the fact Ukrainian MoD specifically stated low numbers of western vehicles that require large logistic chains donated in small numbers are a hindrance and preferred vehicles they are more used to and have parts parts already aka the tons of soviet stuff Poland, Czech, Greece has been sending. The Marders are pointless.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            APCs are resistant against shelling (nearby) and small arms. That's the whole point, that your dudes in trucks don't get gibbed by shrapnel when motoring around in the rear.

            IFVs are an APC that directly supports infantry with heavy

            >be given the opportunity to remove quite possibly the only military threat in the continent by simply giving shit
            >nooo we can't because that'll leave us vulnerable to some imaginary threat that has 0.000000001% of ever happenning

            firepower.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They're using M113s
      They'd like a marder (if functional)

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >They'd like Marder
        No, they would like 100 Marder with spares and ammo. Not 16 cobbled together shit boxes with a paint job and a spare radiator.
        >Western supporters should draw a lesson with future supplies, for example of armoured personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, and try to limit the numbers of different systems being supplied.”
        https://tvpworld.com/61378339/ukrainians-face-logistical-nightmare-with-western-weapons

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    germoids will cuck out as always

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The only countries that sent more than Germany are the US and UK.
      >inb4 some retard with an outdated graphic

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Not this shit again, remember at the start how much shit Germany got when Rheinmettal said they were ready to send 100 marders, now 6 months later it has 16.
    It's good Germany pulled its finger out abit but fuck me they were usless until about 3-4 months in

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1) At the end of February Germany's defence industry sends Scholz a long list of all available weapons.
    2) Scholz doesn't share the list with Ukraine.
    3) Scholz says that there are no more weapons left in Germany to give to Ukraine.
    4) Germany's defence industry leaks the list to Ukraine's ambassador.
    5) Scholz says that the weapons on the list don't work.
    6) The defence industry denies this and leaks the list to the press.
    7) Scholz states Ukrainians can't master the weapons in the available time.
    8) German defence experts tell the German press that Ukrainians can master the weapons in 2-3 weeks.
    9) Scholz says the weapons are needed by NATO and NATO must approve their transfer.
    10) NATO officials and German generals deny this.
    11) Scholz says no other NATO/EU ally is delivering heavy weapons to Ukraine.
    12) The US, UK, Australia, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Turkey, Italy, Finland, Denmark, Romania, Netherlands, etc. publish the lists of heavy weapon they deliver to Ukraine.
    13) Under pressure Scholz announces €2 billion for Ukraine's military.
    14) German parliamentarians find out that it's really just €1 billion, which won't be available for another 2-3 months, and then Scholz can veto or delay indefinitely every item Ukraine wants to buy.
    15) The US, France, Poland, Romania, Japan, the UK and Italy, plus the heads of EU and NATO spend an afternoon trying to talk sense into Scholz.
    16) Scholz makes a statement and says Ukraine can have the €1 billion now and order whatever it wants from the list.
    17) Ukraine's ambassador says that Scholz removed all the items Ukraine actually wants from the list before giving it to Ukraine and what remains on the list is just a fraction of the €1 billion.
    18) Scholz didn't reply to the direct letters from Ukraine before this reveal.
    19) Rhinemetal has explicitly stated they have lots of heavy weapons they can give to Ukraine, they just need approval from Scholz; Scholz refuses to approve it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Scholz says that the weapons on the list don't work.
      >restored 16 Marders in 6 months
      Well seems like he was right

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That was other stuff. But the fact they haven't restored more is because of Scholz. He doesn't want to give shit to help Ukraine.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >He doesn't want to give shit to help Ukraine.
          Germany has delivered a large number of weapons and supplies to Ukraine bro. Why do people pretend Scholz is somehow different from any other western leader when it comes to tanks IFVs or MBTs. No one is sending Bradleys, Warriors, Abrams or Challengers to Ukraine either.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Scholz is a spineless cunt nothing new

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Actually he's by far the most supportive chancellor from Germany. But the statements

        1) At the end of February Germany's defence industry sends Scholz a long list of all available weapons.
        2) Scholz doesn't share the list with Ukraine.
        3) Scholz says that there are no more weapons left in Germany to give to Ukraine.
        4) Germany's defence industry leaks the list to Ukraine's ambassador.
        5) Scholz says that the weapons on the list don't work.
        6) The defence industry denies this and leaks the list to the press.
        7) Scholz states Ukrainians can't master the weapons in the available time.
        8) German defence experts tell the German press that Ukrainians can master the weapons in 2-3 weeks.
        9) Scholz says the weapons are needed by NATO and NATO must approve their transfer.
        10) NATO officials and German generals deny this.
        11) Scholz says no other NATO/EU ally is delivering heavy weapons to Ukraine.
        12) The US, UK, Australia, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Turkey, Italy, Finland, Denmark, Romania, Netherlands, etc. publish the lists of heavy weapon they deliver to Ukraine.
        13) Under pressure Scholz announces €2 billion for Ukraine's military.
        14) German parliamentarians find out that it's really just €1 billion, which won't be available for another 2-3 months, and then Scholz can veto or delay indefinitely every item Ukraine wants to buy.
        15) The US, France, Poland, Romania, Japan, the UK and Italy, plus the heads of EU and NATO spend an afternoon trying to talk sense into Scholz.
        16) Scholz makes a statement and says Ukraine can have the €1 billion now and order whatever it wants from the list.
        17) Ukraine's ambassador says that Scholz removed all the items Ukraine actually wants from the list before giving it to Ukraine and what remains on the list is just a fraction of the €1 billion.
        18) Scholz didn't reply to the direct letters from Ukraine before this reveal.
        19) Rhinemetal has explicitly stated they have lots of heavy weapons they can give to Ukraine, they just need approval from Scholz; Scholz refuses to approve it.

        aren't entirely accurate. Like most robust democracy, the power doesn't lie solely in the hands of the leadership, its spreadout across the entire government. The defense secretary, the parliamant, the various competing political blocs, etc.

        Scholz tried to pass his reforms but its not that easy afterall these decades of German politicians riding the coattail of peace at the expense of national security.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >muh Scholz
      Most of the stuff you listed doesn't even go through the chancellor or was said by him. The majority of the things on your list was his Minister of Defence who is a well-known anti-militarist hippy. Scholz barely get involved in most decisions and lets his minister handle things.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Minister of Defence
        >anti-militarist hippy
        Why do Germans like to kneecap themselves like this? Von der Leyen lined the pockets of her "audit company" pals, the ones after her were a bunch of retarded peaceniks, it's like one retard after another.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No one expected a war. There's also some politicking involved since she wanted to be minister of interior affairs, but that post went to somebody else who will leave in a year for a different office so then she can take over. Also Scholz had to placate the leftist-pacifist faction of the SPD by giving them some ministerial postings.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Hmm, which cabinet position should we use to placate the leftist-pacifists? I know, let's give them the Defense Ministry. What could go wrong?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The ministry of defence is seen as the least important position to occupy in the government, that's why it's given to the most useless people. Not that the others are any better, really.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It was also Merkel's preferred ministry to kill off the careers of possible rivals. Make them minister of defence then cut the budget some more and watch them drown in some scandal related to arms procurement.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This anon gets it.
              Coalition or right wing goverments putting left wing politicians in charge of the military or the police is a traditional way in western europe to dispose of rivals.
              They either eventually get entangled in shady deals easily filtered to the press, or are forced to do logical but unpopular things for left wing voters (like stamping out protests). It's a win-win.
              IIRC Ursula von der Leyen has been very lucky by COVID and the Ukraine war giving her more power and visibility when she was already in a career dead end.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ursula was extremely lucky. She was essentially supposed to be Macron's puppet in the EU. But Macron completely fell flat with his diplomatic approach early in the war and his phone calls with Putin. Meanwhile Ursula went full war mode from day 1 and supported Ukraine unconditionally. And since Scholz is MIA most the time anyway she ended up playing a far more important role than anyone expected.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Why do Germans like to kneecap themselves like this?
          Because Germany is surrounded by nations who 24/7 scream about German militarism and the 4th Reich and the past 80 years of Allied reeducation to "breed the war strain out of the Germans" which according to their logic was the sole cause of war throughout history and the condtant never ending demonization and WW2 propaganda which naturally has been successful?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sounds like a cop out to me.
            On paper they have a fairly decent sized military but in reality non of it works, the nations around you aren't responsible for maintainance anon.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Mate German working and other people's definition of working are very different.

              We need up to date inspection by our automotive regulator to run shit in Afghanistan. We had to build up an inspection site including civ working staff to keep them street legal in Germany. Without beeing in Germany.

              A broken Taillight will disqualify a vehicle from service, I'm not kidding.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You realize this statement makes you look even worse? Yes?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You realize that you're not on /int/?
                Truth matters, I hope you don't lie on PrepHole to make your "team" look better to strangers online.
                What anon says basically means a lot of vehicles technically unfit for use are basically immediately usable if SHTF.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That is something they will likely never understand. The german military and its inner workings are truely a mystery, even for those on the inside. It is a great way to lobby for more money though.
                Another interesting issue is the amount of equipment they have stored and how storage is used to finance the MIC even if the military is not actively buying equipment. Which makes a lot of sense if you want to retain a domestic arms industry but are unable to have a lot of procurement because of peacenik governments. The accounting wizardry is phenomenal.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            What? Are you talking about a few polish morons? Because literally all other euro countries have been butthurt by Germany not being more serious about military spending.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >germany is mentioned
              >immediately starts talking about poles
              rent free

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Because literally all other euro countries have been butthurt by Germany not being more serious about military spending
              That's a rather recent development. Germany used to spend 5% of its GDP during the cold war.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Why do Germans like to kneecap themselves like this?
          The country is hated enough as it is, because of its superior economy. So politicians just cuck out in other areas. Useless appeasement

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Germans only have themselves to blame for their military shitshow. The rest of Europe views Germany's military as a disfunctional mess because it is constantly bogged down in beaurocracy of its own creation. The Excuse of being seen as peaceful and non-aggressive is something the Germans created themselves

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >the strategic, long-term disarming and demilitarization, turning Germany into a merchant nation is totally their own doing and has nothing to do with everything that happened post WW2 and how the global community treated Germany.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Germany had half a million men under arms during the Cold War (675,000 if you count East Germany too). They spent 6% of their GDP on defense in 1963. Until 1992 (when they were no longer the ones in danger) the Germans had no objections to militarism.
                The idea that the Germany believes in pacifism or that the international community made them be helpless is a myth the Germans invented 30 years ago to justify freeloading on defense even more than they had been since 1955.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                West and East Germany had one of the largest land armies facing each other in their respective alliances. The only ones bigger being the USA and USSR itself. German disarmament only happened post cold war under the willingness of the Germans themselves

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And why would Germany have kept a large military?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think we can agree there is a difference between downsizing and the effective self-disarmament Germany has done to itself. For decades it's been below the minimum 2% stipulated by NATO. Now we can see why 2% is the MINIMUM, anything below that and you can't maintain capabilities

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The 2% target was to be reached first only by new baltic memebers and after 2014 was reinforced for all member states as a 10 year goal.
                Why would you ever spand that much money without such an agreement unless you either have overseas territories to guard, are a neighbor of a hostile nation or you want to larp as world police?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        placing a hippy pacifist cunt as defense minister is like placing the pope as the administrator of black mesa

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He was the one who appointed the minister and can appoint someone else at will

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The last guy in charge of a country who thought like that was David Cameron, the reaction of his slighted party member was to leak info about him fucking the head of a dead hog to the press.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Do you have any sources, I'm working on a paper for uni and I'd like to include this

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He got it from a youtube video and pretty much everything said in that video was bs. Not defending Scholz here, he's a sack of shit, but you should write papers for uni based on some shit a youtube influencer compiled while sitting on the shitter.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/cRVizTl.jpg

        He got it from a youtube video and pretty much everything said in that video was bs. Not defending Scholz here, he's a sack of shit, but you should write papers for uni based on some shit a youtube influencer compiled while sitting on the shitter.

        Completely retarded

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Implying Scholz had legitimately anything to do with this clusterfuck and not our retarded defense minister.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Remember the delivery of 100 Leopard 1A5s?
    Me neither
    https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-turning-tide-against-russia-no-thanks-germany/

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Seems like he's the one fucking off, considering he's been terminated as ambassador

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >we never got Vatniks celebrating the destruction of the wunderwaffe that is the Leopard 1A5

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm just more sad I never got to see Leopard Is or M48A3 face off against a T-62

        God I'm still amazed that they're using T-62s now. Someone was joking about that in April, and it of course became a reality. This'd be like if we invaded someone with M48A3s, fuck.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why the fuck does Germany need to send 16 Marder IFVs? What logistical sense does that make? Doesn't the US have 100s of Bradleys to spare?

    Likewise how would a handful of Leopards be helpful? Ukraine's top armor officer has said they would do more harm than good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYmwfC99eek

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The tanks Poland “lost” seemed extremely useful.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Why the fuck does Germany need to send 16 Marder IFVs? What logistical sense does that make? Doesn't the US have 100s of Bradleys to spare?
      Yeah, 16 Marders aren't going to turn the tide of the war. Germany is really just being offered yet another chance to make any significant contribution on the side of civilization.
      The hilarious thing is that the Germans are completely oblivious to how they have already lost most of their international good will and diplomatic influence over the last six months.
      And now, once again they will choose saving a few million Euros over not being thought of as a Serbia-tier Russian cum guzzling obstacle to the common good of the Western world.
      The NATO and EU meetings after the war is over are going to be awkward as fuck.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That feel when Europoors have loads of oldie goodie armour in their storages, but they shy away from sending it because "it's in bad condition". Meanwhile pidors keep sending tanks and IFVs from the 60s, and Ukrainians resort to driving on old SUVs they buy in Poland.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Thing is no one in western Europe is going to send anything big unless Americans do it first.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Americans have already sent a batch of M113, and Poland donated us their entire fleet of T-72.
        Besides, we've been receiving some armour from Western Europe for quite some time, but only in small quantities. Some of our units live entirely of donations and would kill for a working IFV or APC.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >M113
          Well but that's an APC. Germany also send refurbished former Danish M113s to Ukraine. It's weird but as of now no one in the West wants to send any IFVs or tanks. I don't get it either but that's how things are.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            We can't send the warrior because we don't have enough Boxers yet otherwise no doubt we would send them. They got a bunch of CVRT vehicles that the ajax (ready in 3022) is supposed to replace.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Poland sent aton of tanks

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              correct, 240 soviet style tanks.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Worth about 190 million. And they expected Germany to replace them with

                At first, 44 Leopard 2A7 worth 660 million
                Then 44 Leopard 2A4 worth 360 million

                While Germany offered 24 Leopard 2A4 worth 196 million

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Germany: we're always willing to help, unless it costs money or inconveniences us in any way!

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Germany, gib more free shit!

                No

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Then pay back some of the hundreds of billions of dollars we've spent subsidizing your nation's defense for the last 77 years.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You are free to leave.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                If it weren't for the fact that US military forces trying to get from French ports to the Polish-Belarussian border would have to loop all the around Switzerland through Italy and much of Central and Eastern Europe, I would be absolutely fine with expelling Germany from NATO, removing them from the West's nuclear umbrella, and announcing on the floor of the UN that Germany was fair game and anyone, and I mean ANYONE, who wanted to invade them was perfectly welcome to. If 26 million North Koreans want to zerg rush y'all just so they can end their hunger through cannibalism... well, that's between the two of you.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Commie tanks don't count.
              That's why people who matter always say WESTERN tanks.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Poland has also sent BMP-1s

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think the problem is you still think the Germans actually want to help Ukraine and that the condition of the tanks isn't just the excuse they latched on to.
      If there had been a foreign contract that fell through at the last moment and they were sitting on a hundred brand-new Leopard A7s that needed a good home, the Germans would say they can't risk their latest high-tech secrets falling into Russian hands.
      The problem isn't Scholz, it isn't a particular German political party, it's the entire fucking country. They would happily trade the Baltic States to Putin if it meant another ten years of low utility bills.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >I think the problem is you still think the Germans actually want to help Ukraine
        *yawn*
        You opinion is a bit outdated. Even from the US it's visible that Germany was the driver of the sanctions and has lost all inhibition since Putin stopped the gas delivery.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >16
    It will definitely going to turn the tide of this conflict at once!

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You say that but Russia would still claim they destroyed 50 of them before they even touched Ukrainian soil

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The fact is Germany doesn't have enough Marders in working order for itself, nor Leo2s or any other armoured vehicle for that matter so it wouldn't make sense to leave itself vulnerable.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Let's be honest, there's 0% chance that Germany will be invaded in the next 20 years, so that vulnerability is largely imaginary.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Don't underestimate how bat shit insane the poles are

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'm more worried about the Swiss really. These mountain tribes must be up to no good.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Swiss are cucks. Imagine not even being in EU, but agreeing to disarm the population in accordance with EU gun grabbers, because muh trade treaties.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              They also eat dogs and banned motor racing

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And even if it was invaded in its current state, Germany wouldn't fight back. Their army and society are not prepared for any kind of a conflict whatsoever.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's the kind of retarded comment that spreads brain rot, of course they would fight back.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Aha,tell me more about it

            [...]

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That post too, take it to 4chan

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That post too, take it to 4chan

            So in other words you have no argument?
            I accept your concession.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Take your meme folder and show it to your parents or your close friends and see how long it takes them to report you to the local lunatic asylum or at the very least mental illness clinic.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I actually did and they agree with me that europe is getting fucked by imigration and degenerate homosexuality, and nobody would report anybody here for holding different political opinions because i dont live in an orwellian no-guns shithole like you do redditoid newfag.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >doesn't provide argument
              >expects proper argument
              The average mudskin 4chanack brain

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          People said the same about Ukraine.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I mean if the frenchies are cumming I would open wide but polish subhumans can only have me dead.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Oh yeh I agree. Try telling that to them though.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >be given the opportunity to remove quite possibly the only military threat in the continent by simply giving shit
      >nooo we can't because that'll leave us vulnerable to some imaginary threat that has 0.000000001% of ever happenning

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Germany is utterly dependent on its NATO allies, and the United States in particular, for its defense, and it has been for thirty years. The Germans never had a problem with this state of affairs until someone asked them to help Ukraine. Suddenly, their contribution to NATO became a top priority.
      And Germany is the fifth largest arms exporter in the world (fourth if you don't count Russia). The majority of the weapons it produces are sold abroad. The idea that their only source of military equipment is the Bundeswehr's stockpiles is just retarded.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Germans are just bureucratic robots. Beep boop we do not have ze export liscense we cannot compute this action.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >need an export license to sell shit
    How retarded. German companies should be free to sell their shit to whomever they want provided the country in question is not on the German sanction-list. No wonder the German/Austrian/Swiss (all three have Germanic autism) arms industries are dead.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Do you have any idea how the international arms trade works, anon?

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    if I were a German arms producer I'd fuck off right over the border to the Czechs and invite all my employees to move to the border region. their politicians are constantly trying to ruin them.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >their politicians are constantly trying to ruin them
      That's the plan. German politicians hate the MIC since it doesn't fit with the pacifist nation persona Germany wants to have.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Isn't this from months ago? I remember this exact situation.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It happens every now and again with some retarded German media outlet saying Rheinmettal is supplying X and then the German autismos jump all over it ultimately to be disappointed and or laughed at.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >a corporation, a fucking arms manufacturer too boot, does something at its own expense for a donation
    Thats really fucking weird.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >we just want to kill some vatniks is this too much to ask?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's a chance to sell more vehicles to Ukraine later. If Ukraine likes what they get they might order more. Kinda how they ordered 100 PzH 2000 or 80 Krabs after trying them out.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The post-war inventory of the Ukrainian army is going to be india-tier eclectic.

        Can you imagine trying to unfuck it and standardize?
        >i can because it sounds like the best job ever, but i am an autismo.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I think part of the slowness is that Ukraine is internally going through the process of procurement, even if a very weird and at times streamlined version of it
          This is actually a great time to trial stuff wherever you can and get feedback from the front on things you can't trial in order to narrow down what exactly you want.
          For some stuff like rockets and artillery they''ll take whatever because of the standardized ammo but when it comes to tanks and planes I bet they're going to be a little pickier, and be doing some quiet testing while test crews get trained on them.

          The bigger question in my opinion is what will happened to the soviet shit. My guess is that Ukraine replaces Russia as post-soviet arms exporter, except they'll actually produce more substantial modernizations for soviet tanks than russia ever could.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'd categorize it based on how easy maintenance and replacement part procurement is. If it's something that's easy to maintain and get parts for keep it. So, stuff like a BMP-1/2, T-64/72, Krab or PzH 2k. If it's stuff where parts are hard to come by then sell it off to Vietnam, Azerbaijan or India. Basically, things like T-90 variants, 2S19 Msta, BMP-3 and such.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >ukies want more pzh than krabs even though pzh is more expensive
        polish sisters, not like this

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >even though pzh is more expensive
          If we take the price poles initially paid years ago adjusted for inflation and pretend that 1,7 billion deal literally only includes PzH2ks with nothing else attached it's still just 15,5 vs 17 million per vehicle.
          But since the deal most likely includes a lot more chances are the price is similar at the very least.
          Korean shit is mediocre but expensive.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Honest question here, why didn't fucking America give the Ukes a bunch of Bradleys?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      There are probably enough BMPs in former Warsaw Pact nations to supply Ukraine. It's cheaper and quicker that way compared to training Ukes on western IFVs.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Lend lease isn't active yet so the scope of what can he sent is limited

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ask again in October when Lend/Lease kicks in. Might have Ukies in the US getting trained on their shopping list at the moment while we're waiting for the bill to come into effect, though.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We're wanting to train them up on IFV fighting so Bradley will BTFO everything hard. For defense contractor sales

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Bradley has never done IFV fighting, sniping rusty t55 hulks at 3000m with a TOW isn't IFV fighting dude

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Remove Marder
    Remove BMP
    Remove M113
    Remove BTR
    Acquire Wiesel. Only Wiesel.
    Hundreds of Wiesel swarming the Donbas.
    The terror will be unspeakable.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      CUTE

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous
  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    typical german scum. nevr trust them

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What doesn't make sense is that the German military is shit because of lack of money, but suddenly companies decide to work for free to give weapons to Ukraine. Can't they give weapons to their own fucking country for free then??

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Can't they give weapons to their own fucking country for free then??
      Old Krupp tradition, the first batch is always free.
      Remember that fuckhuge traingun in WWII people always call a waste of money?
      Literally free.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      They do not work for free. They get paid to mothball BW equipment and to keep it in a certain state of readyness. If the depots get opened they get paid again to bring the equipment back to good working order. You need to understand that there is a lot of crazy accounting magic going on within the german military/MIC. Just because something is not on the books doesn't mean its not there.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >companies decide to work for free to give weapons to Ukraine
      From what I heard they want to SELL all that stuff, and ukraine is paying well.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Germany isn't a sovereign country. Just ask the US and UK for permission. They won the war and their they only one's whose opinions should matter when it comes to German weapons exports.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Germany still hope for Crimea option so they can proudly announce peace as before and go back to doing business with Putin, they even not consider restarting NPP. Whole SPD and "green parties" seats deep im russian pocket. Those fuckers never changed and still thinking about Eurasia from Lisbon to Vladivostok. Wanna bet at Germany gonna be first making deals with russia after war?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Chess player Gary Kasparov (Weinstein) is not an expert on Putin or Russian politics. Not a Russian.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Seems by recent dumpsterfire that Putin also isn't a political specialist. He is a retarded glovie with hewish mother.
        Seethe and cope

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Aren't the Greens actually the most outspoken in favor of more support? I know the SPD are ass draggers, the CDU are so-so, and nobody asks the FDP.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Greens have traditionally been very pro western alliance and interventionist everytime they shared government power.
        When in the oppposition they always try to get the peacenik vote by claiming to be anti NATO and anti war.
        The SPD and the Left are the anti war faction.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    On 14 September 1944, the offensive of the Soviet troops in the Baltic States began.

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Oh those pesky German leaders are back to their old tricks.

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