This, the thing is so big it's not going to be used on anything but a tripod or from a vehicle, but there's also massive industrial base for producing and maintaining these things, and since they're already doing such a good job, there's just no good incentive to make something which is only very slightly better while throwing away a significant logistical advantage.
You can swap the feed in the other direction for things like dual mounts, you can attach an optic, and changing the barrel is quick and easy, and flash hiders are available. I don't know what else you want out of a gun which very reliably chucks high speed .50
There are apparently 3 million
And they all work fantastically.
Oh yeah, most allies have these things as well, so you've got that commonality thing as well.
What can we even do to improve upon the M2 .50 HMG?
Less weight would be nice, but what's even the point of that and you'd loose durability with less material..
Maybe perhaps a more 'sealed' system so it'll work longer in exposed environment before you have to service it? That's the only thing I could think of that would perhaps improve the system.
Tbh this type of weapon will always be crew served. So while it might be able to be made lighter, which is better. It doesn't need different materials other than steel. Steel on steel with lube can last a long time and will make the logis happy. With proper balancing of factors, a steel mechanism won't ever break, unless stresses exceed that which steel can manage.
There are a lot of aircraft cannon that the next 50 could take inspiration from. The GSH301 is pretty cool. But tbh, it makes no sense to replace the M2 with another 50. It would likely be replaced by a 30mm cannon or something similar to fulfill the roles of both the mk19 and the M2 at once.
>Maybe perhaps a more 'sealed' system so it'll work longer in exposed environment before you have to service it?
oh, so all of the grit and other garbage is trapped inside the sealed part? brilliant >no just make it perfectly sealed up somehow idk
Frick off, moron
It was a logistical flex by america during ww2. We were making nearly a Mil+ of these shits annually, and our pseudo command economy wrangled a dozen manufacturing companies to stop making consumer shit like sewing machines and tractor parts and pressed them into making machine guns.
We had so goddamn many of these things by 1945 that it was unreal.
Because it's literally perfect at what it needs to be and any other improvements are really minor shit that isn't really necessary. HMGs are a well developed weapon technology.
It only makes sense that JMBs genius lives on 38 thousand years into the future
It exists because "it's fine". The US could easily start pumping out better design, it would just be expensive to make the change.
It’s heavier than it needs to be and the need to set headspace and timing every barrel change is annoying. If you get the headspace wrong, it can dump shredded brass casing out the bottom of the gun. It also uses a 2-step feed system that means there’s often a casing or perhaps live round left inside if you aren’t careful. it's not some mystical perfect HMG.
It's not actually jamming. It isn't performing its full cycle of operations, probably due to the belt being janked up and catching on shit. Quite a number of machine guns are made so that if the belt is being pulled on too hard or being pulled at a weird angle it will fail to advance to the next round instead of trying to force the situation and potentially causing a malfunction.
One important reason is that while the gun has changed little, the ammo has. The armor piercing rounds can chew through a house, an IFV, an artillery position, and light it on fire as a bonus. It does things one used to need a cannon for, and at a vastly higher speed. The gun is still fine because noone has still found an antidote to it for most situations where it is used.
Who here has felt the raw feeling of power when you got to be behind this monster >little micro adjustments here and there, burst of bullets, a correction, and then hosing down target ripping it apart, at distances from 400m to 1200 meters
>good
It's not that great. It's ok but it's more that it serves in an unimportant but common role: something stationary guard posts or non-main-combat vehicles can use to overpower attackers who have even weaker weapons.
IMO, the M2/Mk19 combo are ultimately going to be replaced by the M230 30x113mm RWS.
Not that anon, but the role of the M2 is in a weird place. It was made to be anti vehicle, but it's an anti-personnel MG at this point
If you're going strictly anti personnel, you could step down to 338 or 6.8 and carry way more ammo. If you're going anti-vehicle, better to go up to 30mm
It's mechanically frickin brilliant, mostly moron proof. It's chambered in a cartridge that kills: people, cars, airplanes, helicopters handily. What it can't kill it can still easily damage: optics, viewports, sensors, wheels, tracks.
The only way to really improve the M2 is to marry it with more advanced optics or target acquisition systems. Next gen networked sighting systems kinda shit. Using drones+gps to get a picture of the "downrange" and extrapolate the beating zone for the gunner at their station. That way the gun could be used more effectively at longer range or in low visibility conditions. From a mechanical perspective, the gun and cartridge are more than capable of exceeding the performance achieved by a human hand and eye.
It's... Not mechanically brilliant... It's mechanically obsolescent, it's just in a role the US doesn't doctrinally care about much (HMG are very unimportant to US operations and are used primarily as a defensive weapon for vehicles).
They planned to reduce the weight of the M2HB by 50% and the recoil by 90%. That is an impressive improvement if they could. But as I said
Dead, Jim. >KRISS .50 Development Program: Adaptation of KRISS System technology to a .50 machine gun platform with goals of 90+% reduction in recoil and 50% reduction in weight versus the M2HB platform. Status: Development in cooperation with the US Army ARDEC Picatinny Arsenal.
it looks like it is dead unless it's gotten hidden somewhere or forgotten or some shit.
It will be like the Vector's recoil reductions, which is to say not actually a reduction just a method of causing the recoil to be in a direction that a recoil testing setup doesn't measure.
Yeah the weight was more the important part. Going from 38kg to 19kg is quite an improvement. You could get another one on the same set-up :^) But yes I too remember when the redirector bolt of the Vector was suppose to be the future and it wasn't.
Dead, Jim. >KRISS .50 Development Program: Adaptation of KRISS System technology to a .50 machine gun platform with goals of 90+% reduction in recoil and 50% reduction in weight versus the M2HB platform. Status: Development in cooperation with the US Army ARDEC Picatinny Arsenal.
It is fit for purpose, and though there are better
HMGs, they are not '3 billion dollars over 5 years better' to actually replace the existing weapons and logistics chain. Modern weapons have gotten lighter, arguably easier to maintain, and with better ammunition - but extra weight doesn't matter when it's only really used on a vehicle or a tripod, extra maintenance is not a big deal when it is attached to a whole vehicle of maintenance or used in bases when you can swap the whole thing out while it gets worked on, and the significant improvements to ammunition shoot just fine through this. The one obvious candidate for upgrades would be a barrel that's just change-and-shoot, but it's not that useful.
Now if they did something genuinely impressive with a HMG candidate, like halving weight while reducing recoil, or doing kraut space magic so it only needs a barrel change at 200,000 rounds instead of allegedly 200, that would be worth actually considering.
Improvements to weight mean very little in the roles where its used, so most modernizations are unimportant.
It does everything it needs to very well.
This, the thing is so big it's not going to be used on anything but a tripod or from a vehicle, but there's also massive industrial base for producing and maintaining these things, and since they're already doing such a good job, there's just no good incentive to make something which is only very slightly better while throwing away a significant logistical advantage.
You can swap the feed in the other direction for things like dual mounts, you can attach an optic, and changing the barrel is quick and easy, and flash hiders are available. I don't know what else you want out of a gun which very reliably chucks high speed .50
And they all work fantastically.
Oh yeah, most allies have these things as well, so you've got that commonality thing as well.
one of those things if its not broke dont fix it
What can we even do to improve upon the M2 .50 HMG?
Less weight would be nice, but what's even the point of that and you'd loose durability with less material..
Maybe perhaps a more 'sealed' system so it'll work longer in exposed environment before you have to service it? That's the only thing I could think of that would perhaps improve the system.
picnotrel
>Pic.
That looks uncomfortable.
Apparently the cows really dont mind it.
Tbh this type of weapon will always be crew served. So while it might be able to be made lighter, which is better. It doesn't need different materials other than steel. Steel on steel with lube can last a long time and will make the logis happy. With proper balancing of factors, a steel mechanism won't ever break, unless stresses exceed that which steel can manage.
There are a lot of aircraft cannon that the next 50 could take inspiration from. The GSH301 is pretty cool. But tbh, it makes no sense to replace the M2 with another 50. It would likely be replaced by a 30mm cannon or something similar to fulfill the roles of both the mk19 and the M2 at once.
>Maybe perhaps a more 'sealed' system so it'll work longer in exposed environment before you have to service it?
oh, so all of the grit and other garbage is trapped inside the sealed part? brilliant
>no just make it perfectly sealed up somehow idk
Frick off, moron
Yeah just have your gun super open to the environment, it worked in WW1 and 2.
Make It .75
Bigger bullet, better bullet
It was a logistical flex by america during ww2. We were making nearly a Mil+ of these shits annually, and our pseudo command economy wrangled a dozen manufacturing companies to stop making consumer shit like sewing machines and tractor parts and pressed them into making machine guns.
We had so goddamn many of these things by 1945 that it was unreal.
There are apparently 3 million
>theres a chance you may come across the possibility of snaking one
good rate of fire and good shells the most important thing is the disintegrating link.
Because it's literally perfect at what it needs to be and any other improvements are really minor shit that isn't really necessary. HMGs are a well developed weapon technology.
It only makes sense that JMBs genius lives on 38 thousand years into the future
Easily hose down something at 400-1000m and see for yourself
t. Qualed expert
It's enough, but not too much.
Cheap
Reliable
Reasonably accurate
Comfortable RoF
Powerful cartridge
simple as
It exists because "it's fine". The US could easily start pumping out better design, it would just be expensive to make the change.
It’s heavier than it needs to be and the need to set headspace and timing every barrel change is annoying. If you get the headspace wrong, it can dump shredded brass casing out the bottom of the gun. It also uses a 2-step feed system that means there’s often a casing or perhaps live round left inside if you aren’t careful. it's not some mystical perfect HMG.
Didn't M2A1/QCB upgrades remove the headspace issue?
It's just good enough. Is it perfect? No. Is it worth the massive financial, time and logistical investment to replace it? No. And so it endures.
No meaningfull improvement in balistic and gun mechanism since the spitzer bullet.
>good
Lol, lmao
It's jamomatic garbage. Should have bought a real hmg like dshk or NSVT.
>its jamomatic garbage
>one youtube video
lol.
lmao, even.
cope
It's not actually jamming. It isn't performing its full cycle of operations, probably due to the belt being janked up and catching on shit. Quite a number of machine guns are made so that if the belt is being pulled on too hard or being pulled at a weird angle it will fail to advance to the next round instead of trying to force the situation and potentially causing a malfunction.
dshka has a really bad reputation for being immaculate and jamming. It’s one saving grace is that it’s light
>another moron who fricked up the belt
One important reason is that while the gun has changed little, the ammo has. The armor piercing rounds can chew through a house, an IFV, an artillery position, and light it on fire as a bonus. It does things one used to need a cannon for, and at a vastly higher speed. The gun is still fine because noone has still found an antidote to it for most situations where it is used.
Who here has felt the raw feeling of power when you got to be behind this monster
>little micro adjustments here and there, burst of bullets, a correction, and then hosing down target ripping it apart, at distances from 400m to 1200 meters
God the M16A4 fricks.
You type like a plebbit.
is that a problem?
I had an opportunity to dump some leftover ammo at a Gunnery Range
The erection I had after racking the charging handle is indescribable.
They were mounted on my M109 when I was conscripted. I loved standing up on the commander seat and just shoot away.
I'm the guy who reenlisted because they gave me 400 extra rounds and told me to have fun
>good
It's not that great. It's ok but it's more that it serves in an unimportant but common role: something stationary guard posts or non-main-combat vehicles can use to overpower attackers who have even weaker weapons.
IMO, the M2/Mk19 combo are ultimately going to be replaced by the M230 30x113mm RWS.
>IMO, the M2/Mk19 combo are ultimately going to be replaced by the M230 30x113mm RWS.
What makes you think that?
Not that anon, but the role of the M2 is in a weird place. It was made to be anti vehicle, but it's an anti-personnel MG at this point
If you're going strictly anti personnel, you could step down to 338 or 6.8 and carry way more ammo. If you're going anti-vehicle, better to go up to 30mm
In the box it was suitable for antivehicle and anti material because of the less durable material most buildings are quarried of
It's a shame the XM307 and XM312 didn't work out. It looked cool.
It just works.
Obligatory
Its honestly a huge piece of shit that doesn't work properly in the field if you leave it outside for a day
too many openings and oiled parts?
>the answer
we already have them, and buying something new would mean less in our christmas bonus
Yeah?
It's mechanically frickin brilliant, mostly moron proof. It's chambered in a cartridge that kills: people, cars, airplanes, helicopters handily. What it can't kill it can still easily damage: optics, viewports, sensors, wheels, tracks.
The only way to really improve the M2 is to marry it with more advanced optics or target acquisition systems. Next gen networked sighting systems kinda shit. Using drones+gps to get a picture of the "downrange" and extrapolate the beating zone for the gunner at their station. That way the gun could be used more effectively at longer range or in low visibility conditions. From a mechanical perspective, the gun and cartridge are more than capable of exceeding the performance achieved by a human hand and eye.
It's... Not mechanically brilliant... It's mechanically obsolescent, it's just in a role the US doesn't doctrinally care about much (HMG are very unimportant to US operations and are used primarily as a defensive weapon for vehicles).
Wasn't KRISS working on a .50cal HMG? Whatever happened to that?
Who cares? Kriss is a meme company.
They planned to reduce the weight of the M2HB by 50% and the recoil by 90%. That is an impressive improvement if they could. But as I said
it looks like it is dead unless it's gotten hidden somewhere or forgotten or some shit.
It will be like the Vector's recoil reductions, which is to say not actually a reduction just a method of causing the recoil to be in a direction that a recoil testing setup doesn't measure.
Yeah the weight was more the important part. Going from 38kg to 19kg is quite an improvement. You could get another one on the same set-up :^) But yes I too remember when the redirector bolt of the Vector was suppose to be the future and it wasn't.
Dead, Jim.
>KRISS .50 Development Program: Adaptation of KRISS System technology to a .50 machine gun platform with goals of 90+% reduction in recoil and 50% reduction in weight versus the M2HB platform. Status: Development in cooperation with the US Army ARDEC Picatinny Arsenal.
The feeder was changed after ww2 when they copied the MG42's.
The PIG, 240 and 249 all utilize the German design.
It is fit for purpose, and though there are better
HMGs, they are not '3 billion dollars over 5 years better' to actually replace the existing weapons and logistics chain. Modern weapons have gotten lighter, arguably easier to maintain, and with better ammunition - but extra weight doesn't matter when it's only really used on a vehicle or a tripod, extra maintenance is not a big deal when it is attached to a whole vehicle of maintenance or used in bases when you can swap the whole thing out while it gets worked on, and the significant improvements to ammunition shoot just fine through this. The one obvious candidate for upgrades would be a barrel that's just change-and-shoot, but it's not that useful.
Now if they did something genuinely impressive with a HMG candidate, like halving weight while reducing recoil, or doing kraut space magic so it only needs a barrel change at 200,000 rounds instead of allegedly 200, that would be worth actually considering.
Reliability, it's a very simple weapon.
Weight is not a concern when it's mainly used on vehicles.
Easily adapted to be remotely fired with a solenoid. It can feed from both sides with very little work.