Eurofag here, and I wonder why the US army has not replaced their M249 SAW with M134 Minigun as a squad support weapon? It has a much greater firepower and firing rate.
M134 as a squad support weapon
Eurofag here, and I wonder why the US army has not replaced their M249 SAW with M134 Minigun as a squad support weapon? It has a much greater firepower and firing rate.
You didn't have to tell us you were European, we would have known
>we would have known
Motherfucker, don't get cocky. We DESIGNED the fucking minigun during WW2. Yanks stole the design.
And we're doing a hell of a lot more with it than you ever had
>We DESIGNED the fucking minigun during WW2
no you didn't
enjoy not having a good way to aim it, considering SAWs are designed more for medium to longer range engagements than entering a room and hip-firing. I guess you could design some weird bipod/tripod mount for it but it doesn't really have a good place to put it.
idk if this is ironic or not but if you ever take fire, good luck taking the gun out of your bag (nobody is going to carry a minigun in their arms all day), getting it set up on the bipod/tripod, getting the battery hooked up, and then getting the ammo hooked up, all before you get killed by the other dudes who just have a regular machine gun that can deliver fast, accurate fire as soon as they can get the bipod down on something
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitrailleuse
Gatling was an upgrade on design 10 years later.
Look, USA is absolutely great in war and has some of the best ideas ever conceived but they all have place of origin in Europe.
We kinda invented war and have it constantly on our soil every 50 years or so....just so we don't forget.
How the mighty have fallen.
>mini baguette Helblaster Volley Gun == box-fed rotary gun
Sorry Pierre but they're not even close
Not even remotely related to a Gatling, either in concept nor function.
Like the other anons said, this ain't a gat.
Bruh, Gatling was the one who *put* the electrical motor onto the Gatling Gun to make the first rotary cannon, it's just that this was pre-WWI were there was no practical way to make that setup mobile on a tactical level.
>tfw we never saw 40mm rotary cannons mounted on the USS Texas in WW1
You probably think Gatling gun has lots of barrels to achieve volleys or increase rate of fire. But it's not true.
The point of Gatling gun is to have an automatic operating mechanism which operates smoothly without violent movements back and forth.
>we constantly have it every 50 years.
>U.S. had been around for 239 Years.
>U.S. has been at war 222 out of those 239 years.
Oh it's another episode of "Clueless European Behaves Snootily While Displaying an Utter Ignorance of Weapons."
for starters, the reduced weight minigun still weights 20kg
the smallest practical ammo box is the 1500-rnd box, which weights 55kg when filled
and you still need a power source
and with nearly 100kg of gun, ammo, and battety
you have less than a second of sustained fire even at its reduced 3000RPM setting
and such a massive weight of fire would probably push you on your ass, even a walking tank like Arnold Schwarzenegger had to be braced off-camera while firing a minigun loaded with blanks
for comparison, an M1919A4 is already known for its heavy size
its still only 14kg with an additional 7kg tripod
One AG to carry an ammo box and another AG to carry power source and with their extra weight they both add support to the gunner by butting up to them like linemen
>squad automatic weapon now requires an entire squad just to operate it
big brain move, Yuro
why else would you call it a squad automatic weapon?
God damn, seems like 'the Predator' lied to me.
ol painless had to have its fire reduced to 1200RPM with blanks to be fired by jesse ventura without falling over and even then he said you could barely hold on
this was also because at anywhere close to its regular fire rate, the audience literally couldnt see the individual barrels, it would just turn into a grey circle
I also seem to remember that the crew had to run a power cable up Jesse Ventura's pant leg to power it.
*or am I thinking of Ahnold in Terminator 2?
It goes brrrrrt too fast for the suppression role:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wkMvgUL7nME?feature=share
And all that ammo is still heavy.
Power source is solved, it's just that realistically a minigunner won't be able to ruck much else then his minigun and wouldn't be able to work in light units. On top of the sustainability issues.
First off, you're gay for using kg.
Second off, They should scale the Minigun down further to use a caseless 4.6mm round so you can actually carry enough ammunition to make use of it.
what use would that be
Killing retards like you
Defeating giant, hunchbacked men wearing highly advanced armor.
The satisfaction of shutting up all the people who complain about the ammunition constraint of rotary guns would be amazing for morale.
You're gay for using mm.
Fair cop.
>You're gay for using mm
Your bodyparts measurement system is why you lost space race.
>hey Jimmy what's the highest allowed tolerance on the tightness of spaceraft windows?
>about 0.03576338965th of old woman's toes
>thanks Jimbo, hand me finger spanner please
>lost space race.
post man on moon, cheapest orbital launcher, and what country launches the most stuff to orbit yearly, subhuman foreigner.
>post man on moon
I can post a man in Kubrick's movie studio lol.
Stanley Kubrick insisted on filming on location.
>kg are gay
>but mm are based and redpilled because NASA once forced a launch outside of acceptable weather conditions
so are you Russian, or just paid by them?
Whose flag is on the moon again?
>Minigun
>caseless 4.6mm round
Vindicator goes BRRRRR
hideous destructor, a "milsim" wad for gzdoom has a gun referred to as the "vulcanette", it's essentially what you are referring to, a 6 barrel minigun chambered in a caseless 4.6mm round, it takes 5x 50round box magazines and cycles through them in sequence, spitting out each one as it is depleted
it's fired from the shoulder, unlike many movie or videogame mini-guns, and powered by a future tech battery cell
it can fire at 700 or 2100 rpm
it's heavy and bulky but can delete pretty much anything in high rof and works as a big, clunky rifle in low eof
so?
isn't the average american male 5"6 and 350lbs?
you should be able to handle the 55kg
100 kg. Or does the maths escape you?
Wait, really?
Anyway, I read NASA guiding computer was using the metric system for the Apollo missions, it's just it converted it back to customary system for the benefit of the crew.
55kg just for the ammo
20kg more for the gun, assuming its the lightweight version
And several more kilos for an electrical system
And you will want a tripod too, since the recoil will literally knock you over
You try carrying that all day, on top of your basic soldier kit
It would be closer to a TOW missile in size and bulk
>1500-rnd box
>3000RPM setting
>you have less than a second of sustained fire
That's 30 whole seconds you silly billy.
>such a massive weight of fire would probably push you on your ass
This.
No human can support and fire one with live ammo, too much recoil. Would lose control of it.
>fixing problems we don't have: again
There's a reason IFV, light tanks, support vehicles, and tanks exist. They SUPPORT infantry and you can see this carry out in Ukraine and elsewhere. A Bradley or BMP rolls up and offloads soldiers, and then the main gun is used to support them. Infantry has some suppressive fire, and a big boom behind them, while they go clear trenches or something.
>Minigun be heavy
>Minigun eats up to 6,000 rounds per minute
>Minigun eats 7.62 RFN
>Squad's sole purpose is now hauling ammo for the hungry Minigun
>Its hunger is never satisfied
>BRRRRRRRRT FEEED ME BULLETS BRRRRRRRRRT
You have to be 18 to post here
Soon…
http://www.emptyshell.us/xm556-microgun
Better info here:
https://www.recoilweb.com/empty-shell-defense-xm556-microgun-105105.html
>Soon...
For the past, what has it been, five years or more?
we need a hand cranked version to skirt NFA laws. you could have a buddy crank your gun off while you aim
>buddy
HOMO!
i like it but it would do well with a different ammo designed specifically for it. maybe something like 6mm ARC but optimized for the short barrel. the big fucking fireball is cool, but a liability
IIRC it’s also got an optional 16”barrel, but specialized ammo would definitely be ideal.
Didn’t see
yet, but that looks like a 16” example.
what happened to this. it've too long
>Manletgun
>video of firing
>immediately off the entire target after the first .01 second
their about page literally says
>We will only bring products to market that add value to the industry and have a large advantage to the end user.
i'd love this as a toy if it was in .22 where it might actually be controllable. i don't know if they realistically thought they'd be getting any military contracts with that
Because it would dump it's ammo supply in a second or two if it used an amount that was actually practical for a human to carry.
Ironically, it shoots too fast. Damn thing will run through an entire platoon's supply in under a minute. Of course there's other reasons like needing an external power supply, being way too heavy, and producing enough recoil to knock a man down (in the Predator movie they replaced the gun with an M60 dressed up like a minigun).
This is a shit thread, but for all the above talk of mini-rotary guns, the military tried 5.56mm already. They called it the XM214 microgun.
Even at 5.56 it was still not designed to be single man fired like a light machinegun. It was portable by a multicam team and came with a tripod that was meant to be quickly bolted into concrete. Basically a heavy machinegun meant to be rapidly empalced to create a hard point and repel counter attacks while taking ground.
It was canceled for being impractical. When people have all these videos of shooting 5.56mm rotary guns from the hip, and drooling tards say they should used in combat, consider: In videos the guns are usually loaded with a ratio of mostly blanks to live rounds, the person shooting is waddling about 15 feet from the bench to the shooting position, they are ripping loose at close range targets and still barely hitting what they are aiming at.
Rotary guns are best on vehicles, and if it’s on a vehicle you may as well keep it in 7.62. Miniguns on humvees used by special forces in Iraq were great for suppressing during rapid advances, but you can do shit like that when a humvee is carrying all the weight.
Kinda surprised we don't see more tanks with gattling guns attached.
There are a lot of issues with tanks using rotary guns. A 7.62 rotary gun is great for suppressing and engaging targets, but so is a main cannon. Tanks aren’t really rolling up right on top of a target building while guys with it kick down a door to capture somebody inside. That’s why the giga upgunned humvees were a thing.
The main use for rotary guns on armored vehicles is air defense or munitions interception. Something like the M741 Gavin with VADS.
Outside of air defense, rotary guns really exist for when either the shooter or the target are erratically moving, and don’t have fire control stabilization.
GAU-8 on MBT chassis when
Never. Can't penetrate frontal armor on MBTs. Ammo is too heavy. 25mm on an APC/IFV or 105/120mm on a MBT is a much better choice.
Can you imagine the supply chain shitstorm having to carry all that ammo would cause? Entire convoys to support a single platoon.
>Can't penetrate frontal armor on MBTs
It can if you shoot it enough!
This isn't one of your computer games
It doesn't have a HP bar
nta
While not practical in a battlefield context, you absolutely can pulverize your way through an armor plate with a high number of non penetrating hits to the same general area. A non penetrating hit does actually introduce strain/fatigue and fractures larger than the caliber of the projectile, so it isnt purely a matter of stacking rounds directly on top of each other either.
I know
Given enough time, metal falls apart on its own as well. Entropy can't be stopped. Nonetheless, it's not practical, and it doesn't mean that I have Jedi powers if I stand around thinking at a tank and it falls apart in a few decades. And shooting a minigun at the glacis of a main battle tank would be just as practical, as far as penetrating the armour is concerned.
>wrecking optics is another matter...
I think there's a grand difference in scale there you're not appreciating.
I think that regardless, a minigun is not going to penetrate that tank
This sort of effect
?si=fWcjUjwW3-8ArIKu
Absolutely is possible, and at a higher scale, with the rate of fire and accuracy of a ground based rotary cannon, and these simulations don't even correctly simulate the stresses and fatiguing of the metal surrounding the impact point.
>40mm Bofors is the same as 7.62mm minigun
We were talking about the GAU-8, remember?
>Gau-8 when?
>Never. Can't penetrate armor
The only thing you need that high of ROF for is if the firing platform is extremely mobile, giving it very little time on target OR if firing against highly agile air targets where the chance to hit with a single round is very low.
That was essentially GE's "Avenger" DIVADs proposal. US Army went for the Sgt York instead.
I know they wanted the longer range of the 35mm Oerlikon or 40mm Bofors but damn that would have been sweet to see in action.
I figured that between the average MBT being 60 tons and the need to suppress ATGM equipped infantry an m134 would be a good candidate for a CROWs mount.
How is it a ''shit thread''? It's a good question.
Its a shit question, its like asking why Nascar isn't raced with Huracans and Scagliettis. Might sound compelling if you are an actual child, but otherwise not.
Apparently it's not a shit question because people are taking an interest.
There was also an odd "pendulum" mount offered by Emerson, that would mount in the door of the cargo area of the OH58, and when in use would swing out and lay under the landing skids to afford an uninterrupted field of fire.
It was found to be an answer to a question nobody asked.
I haven’t seen that. Got any documents?
Yeah most stuff that’s cool but not used (or not widely used) tends to be either hyper-situational, or an answer to an unasked question.
Even with the minigun equipped numbers I mentioned, we know those are possible to make and yet they aren’t standard issue. Because for anybody outside of a hyper specific niche of doing lightning raids with humvees, a traditional machinegun is more practical even if less cool.
*minigun equipped humvee
Funny when I looked for pictures, a large number of results were M2s with the blank firing adaptors equipped. Apparently people think those are miniguns. Which might give the impression miniguns are more common than they really are.
There is little online, but IIRC it is mentioned in one of Chinn's later volumes.
>but for all the above talk of mini-rotary guns, the military tried 5.56mm already
You simply must go smaller. And caseless.
Empty Shell reduced the 556 minigun to m249 weight. Add in polymer ammo and it's barely viable.
I addressed this in the comment you’re replying too. The gun is a novelty. When you see people shooting it or something similar, it is loaded with mostly blanks. The number of live rounds per minute actually being fired is going to be closer to a traditional machinegun.
If such a micro gun were to be loaded with full live rounds and used in a combat role, it would be incredibly uncontrollable, heavy (you still need to pack a battery and the ammo), and this gun doesn’t have provisions for a tripod so you are forced to shoot it from the hip.
The tripod mounted XM214 was the closet thing to a practical, man portable minigun, but it was a solution to a non-existent tactical problem.
Not a minigun
>the closet thing to a practical, man portable minigun, but it was a solution to a non-existent tactical problem.
you say that now
The non-retarded tactical solution in the movie was air power and tactical nukes. A solution suitable for bugs.
4mm aluminum cored caseless ammo.
>4.73×33 minigun
Awesome idea if you ask me. Puts out supressing fire and shoots at drones for days.
Gets rid of the pesky Vault Dwellers too! And other enemies of America.
Couldn't they do one that fires the HK 4.6×30 or the 5.7×28 round?
The gun could be a lot smaller and would be easier to carry more ammo.
Go GAU or go home.
Completely fails the Mini part of Minigun.
skill issue
even the minigun isn't mini, so might as well upsize it a bit
>762
heavier, bigger than 556 but provides no perceptible performance agaunst buildungs and walls
keep it at 556 or commit to a real big cartridge
>6 barrels
extraneous weight, designed with stationary emplacements or vehicles in mind: lotsa ammo, constant firing but no water supply for cooling, in echange for weight and bulk, which is not applicable to boots because
>3000rpm minimum
deletes your ammo reserve in a single minute, you dont even have ammo to heat the thing up properly, let alone stress all 6 barrels, you also cant hit shit
reduce RPM, reduce barrel to one
>electric
built for automatic extraction because the user may not be able to physically interact with the weapon i.e planes and tanks, also comes with a heavy ass battery to lug around, not needed for boots, as gunpowder already did all the heavy lifting, a lever takes care of the rest
based on my deductions, if exoskeletons ever become the meta it would be more viable and kino for gunners and friends to lug some lightened variants of the .50 M2 around.
Is this supposed to be a fun fantasy thread or is OP being retarded on accident?