looking to get solar panels. what do i need to know? im willing to shell out, doesnt seem like a battery is worthwhile.

looking to get solar panels

what do i need to know? im willing to shell out, doesnt seem like a battery is worthwhile.

dont know enough about inverters and microinverters and their warranties to make an informed decision
want to go with good panels

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    It's complicated, describe your use case in as much detail as you can, including yearly consumption and how much you're willing to PrepHole. Batteries are absolutely worth it if you PrepHole it, commercial ones not so much.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      interesting interesting. i wasnt implying so much PrepHole as just getting the best advice regarding installers and information.
      but if that's the case...there's a lot more research to be done

      maximum daily consumption is 56kWh, maybe averaging 35.
      I'm basically an amateur electrician and my mother can do more than me so, whatever is on the table and feasible.

      Safety and reliability are high on the list. Ease then cost afterwards.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        If you don't care about having backup power when the grid is down, especially backup from solar, then the most economical choice is to get an on-grid system with a virtual battery service, assuming you have a virtual battery service available where you live. Then your panels are constantly feeding the production either into your own house, or the excess into the local grid, which then you can re-use during the nighttime or in the winter (usually still have to pay something for this power, just less than what you'd pay otherwise). This can reduce your bills by 50-80% in total, depending on geographic location and how you use power.
        Inverters on the market are all various grades of chinkshit with the exception of Fronius, Victron and a couple other brands, these cost 3-4x as much as the chinkshit. In my opinion they're absolutely not worth the extra money, Victron in particular is more geared towards off-grid or hybrid systems anyway. The chinkshit inverters with a brand associated, ie. Huawei, are usually pretty decent and you still get 10 years warranty. The ultra-chinkshit inverters like MPPSolar and EASun from aliexpress have much worse warranty, but going by some garden gnometubers, they aren't total dogshit and cover some niche cases of hybrid systems in terms of features.
        Solar panels, again I personally don't see any reason to pay out of the ass for premium solar panels. Even the cheaper ones like Longi or CanadianSolar have 10 year warranty and 25 year warranty on linear performance degradation. The premium brands cost twice as much and give 20 year basic warranty. You might as well just buy more cheap panels.
        The one major advantage they can have is if your roof space is limited, because you need a fuckton of panels to cover 50-60kWh daily usage, even more if you go hybrid. You need about 15kWp installed. The various premium panels usually offer somewhat better space efficiency, but it's in the range of a few percents.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >If you don't care about backup power when the grid is down
          You will.
          t. grid engineer

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't have to care much though since I chose a climate that won't kill me, have manual well pump backups and do not rely on electricity for anything but (considerable of course) convenience.

            I planned to be comfy with or without power which isn't difficult. Rain barrels used for washing outdoors (mechanic etc) mean I only have to pump drinking water manually for survival. (Bosworth manual hand and foot pumps are affordable and based.)

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            I can't solar backup due to government regulation. I can only sell my solar back to the electric company for a discount. RIP

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              Are mobile (technically) power systems illegal as used on many green jobsites these days?

              Do some reading and have the printed laws for your country at hand.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Not looking for PrepHole advice

        Wrong underwater basket weaving forum kiddo. Reddit is that way.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >doesnt seem like a battery is worthwhile

        >reliability [is] high on the list
        Guys .. Shhh! .. No one tell him about night.
        Or clouds.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Just buy nighttime solar panels, duh.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            anon, the proper term is lunar panels

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Or dust. Or snow. Or pollen. Or bird shit.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    I recently bought a house that already has solar panels and is almost 3x as big as my old home (~2300 sqft), kept tue around 76 and my power bill was $16 last month.
    I cant tell you much about installers and brands and what not, but the panels are older (installed 2008-ish) and it's totally worth it.
    I dont have batteries or anything like that, the excess or whatever I assume is sold back to the power company

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      To use virtual battery service, you usually need a licensed installation, so PrepHole isn't viable from the get-go, but you can always convert your system to a hybrid/replace your inverter without telling anyone.
      For physical batteries, LFP raw cells nowadays cost about $0.1/Wh, which is incredibly cheap, for your needs you'd want something like a 40-50kWh pack, which would cost around $5000 in cells, another ~$500-$1000 in misc. components like BMS and fuses and breakers and shit. There's a good amount to learn about how LFP works and how it has to be protected and shit, so the PrepHole battery is only going to be as safe as you make it, unlike commercial batteries. But a commercial battery will cost $30k or more for that kind of capacity. The lifetime of LFP is also massive if it's used correctly, but of course your PrepHole battery won't have any warranty on it.

      Might want to check with the power company what exactly they are doing with the power, you can get charged and fined if you don't have the right contract with them and still feed power back into the grid.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Might want to check with the power company what exactly they are doing with the power, you can get charged and fined if you don't have the right contract with them and still feed power back into the grid.
        Thanks for the heads up.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >for your needs you'd want something like a 40-50kWh pack
        >a commercial battery will cost $30k or more for that kind of capacity
        You can get premade 30kWh mega cabinets for $9k to your door now. It'll still be cheaper to build, but the deals on lazy ass retard ass premades are getting sweeter all the time.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          To use virtual battery service, you usually need a licensed installation, so PrepHole isn't viable from the get-go, but you can always convert your system to a hybrid/replace your inverter without telling anyone.
          For physical batteries, LFP raw cells nowadays cost about $0.1/Wh, which is incredibly cheap, for your needs you'd want something like a 40-50kWh pack, which would cost around $5000 in cells, another ~$500-$1000 in misc. components like BMS and fuses and breakers and shit. There's a good amount to learn about how LFP works and how it has to be protected and shit, so the PrepHole battery is only going to be as safe as you make it, unlike commercial batteries. But a commercial battery will cost $30k or more for that kind of capacity. The lifetime of LFP is also massive if it's used correctly, but of course your PrepHole battery won't have any warranty on it.

          Might want to check with the power company what exactly they are doing with the power, you can get charged and fined if you don't have the right contract with them and still feed power back into the grid.

          Building yourself is still a substantial savings though, but you have to not be an idiot and willing to watch a couple hours worth of youtube videos and buy a couple tools. Being generous and throwing another $1000 on top of the raw cells here you could DIY the premade I linked for a bit under $6k. Still a big premium on convenience but most normalfags are willing to pay huge markups for convenience after all.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          not OP, but that prices is way lower than I though it would be.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Do they offer a warranty? How many cycles are they rated for?

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            This one's 7000 cycles to 80%, which is pretty decent.
            https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48v-100ah/

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          I should've added commercial high voltage, because most installers as well as most inverters will want you to use high voltage battery packs. 48V only works with very few high capacity hybrid inverters. Maybe you can get them for less though, I was already adding taxes because euro. 15kWh high voltage packs are starting around $8k here.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >I was only talking about some esoteric form of battery no one has any reason to use because it still makes you totally reliant on the grid and they become useless when the power goes out defeating the entire purpose of power storage.
            ah. of course.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >esoteric battery
              There are literally 2 companies that make a handful of all-in-one 3-phase high wattage inverter models that accept 48V batteries, the other hundreds of hybrid inverters all require a high voltage battery. The vast majority of commercial installers either install those high voltage systems, or Victron. Victron can also do 3-phase with 48V, so long as you pay the $10k for their inverters and another couple thousand for charge controllers and other shit.
              Obviously the point of the batteries is to save money, and most of the systems (for extra cash) allow some degree of UPS function even on the high voltage batteries, it's just that it's all a lot more expensive. But again, all major brands' high wattage hybrid inverters use high voltage, GoodWe still offers a couple 48V single-phase models, but they're also pushing for their own 600V batteries. Do correct me if I'm wrong, because I've spent a long time looking for 48V 3-phase inverters that aren't complete chinkshit or extremely expensive.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Your yuro shit has no bearing on the rest of the world. Fine, I'm sure everyone's handing out 800v batteries in yuroland. In America, it's all 48v.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Are they mounted on the roof? What does the connection to the house look like and what happens when you have to change the shingles?

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    it doesn't matter you won't do it.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      im obviously doing it.
      not by myself though
      getting it installed

      would still like to know the best options
      if microinverters are going to matter etc

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >not by myself though
        I was right.

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Build a wood gasifier and hook it up to a generator if you have the property for it and easy access to cheap/free wood instead, will be a hell of alot more economical, better for the environment and secure in production capabilities

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >dont know enough about inverters and microinverters and their warranties to make an informed decision

    If you cannot effortlessly find that stuff you don't know how to use search strings. The reason you should is to save yourself gobs of time and money.

    Spend a couple hundred hours studying before spending. If you want good results you can put in the study to get them then enjoy the money you saved.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Solar is great, but take a look at your local rules an regulations. Highly recommend getting a minimum of 3 installers out to advise and quote you. That and price will tell you if its a good idea.

    Picture is my house, looked at just getting solar on my garage in the back right.

    Cost before incentives $45k Located in Michigan with so-so solar conditions.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      8kw, 22 panel system, no battery, grid tied.

      I found out that my local electrical provider DTE, don't pay you for over production and only gives 50% kw credit, pretty bad deal.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        https://i.imgur.com/8c0s7Ut.jpg

        Solar is great, but take a look at your local rules an regulations. Highly recommend getting a minimum of 3 installers out to advise and quote you. That and price will tell you if its a good idea.

        Picture is my house, looked at just getting solar on my garage in the back right.

        Cost before incentives $45k Located in Michigan with so-so solar conditions.

        >$45k for 8kw on-grid
        That's fucking garbage, you could get enough panels and batteries to be fully self sufficient even in the winter for that kind of money. 8kW of panels with the mounting frame cost maybe $5k at most, an on-grid 8kW inverter is like 1.5k, misc. installation material another 1k a most, the other 37.5k is garden gnomeing.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >take a look at your local rules an regulations
      If you don't grid tie you can do whatever you want, fuck em.

      >installers
      "Solar Installer" is the 2020s door to door vacuum cleaner salesman scam. Incredibly lucrative, incredibly easy, almost all of them have no idea what they're doing. If you're paying a "Solar Installer" to do the work prepare to get raped and the system likely won't even be correctly designed. It's not difficult whatsoever, there is no reason for an installer. Buy the fucking panels, use an online VOC calculator to wire them up in series-parallel, connect them to an inverter charge controller and a battery bank. Done. That's it.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I do solar here in Europe and for 22 panels we would charge maybe 15,000 at most. You are getting robbed.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      how much did you get back from incentives?

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >panels
    panels are a chinese meme.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >needs a massive structure with 2-axis sun tracking
      >strictly only works in sunlight
      >cost per rated kW installed is probably like five times higher than solar panels
      >many points of mechanical failure
      >"I wonder why people use solar panels"

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >twice the efficiency
        >minor non-technical repairs after hailstorm/damage
        oh yea people are just plopping panels down everywhere no infrastructure.
        I suppose the folks that are already accustomed to constant consooming love panels that can be shipped 2 day from china.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >twice the efficiency
          You can also get 30%+ efficient solar panels, it's just that they cost a couple million dollars. Again, cost per rated kW installed is the more relevant metric.
          One potential real advantage of a Stirling engine could be that it produces power resistant to inductive loads, assuming you hook it up directly to an AC generator, which can only be said about more expensive inverters, but even then, there's no way it's more cost effective for residential.

          DIY me a better panel?

          [...]

          You could certainly PrepHole a .47kW solar panel, but why would you PrepHole when it's actually cheaper to buy one and the store-bought panel will be higher quality than the PrepHole one? It's literally $200 to buy a 450W panel, it's probably around $300 to buy solar cells and materials for the PrepHole panel, not including work or tools. You can PrepHole the solar cells, too, but that will probably multiply the cost by 10-50.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        DIY me a better panel?

        [...]

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I listen to a show called USA Prepares (Vincent Finelli). The host uses NiFe, and says it little to no degradation; just top off the acid/electrolyte/water...
    Any experiences? He and somebody else bought a shipping container of them straight from China. https://ironedison.com/shop/batteries/nickel-iron/nickel-iron-ni-fe-battery/

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That's a complete meme at those prices. You could buy a ready-made LFP battery ten times over for what you pay for one of these. If you could get used batteries on the cheap, might be worth dicking around with if you explicitly need cold resistance.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Solar is great when re-roofing. Trusses rotted,
    sheathing rotted, headers rotted. Solar is
    wonderful. Payout is over 100 years.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Lotta good shit some gahbage in this thread. Haters bring the garbage.

    I work in it, gotta put in a plug for ground mount, NOT on roof

    pointing panels straight solar south is very important for output, lotta silly roof mount setups out there. Even ten degrees makes a huge difference.
    Never let anyone on your roof with a drill
    Heaven forbid ur house burns down your solar still will live.

    Find a small solar outfit you trust. Youll both be makin money. Where are ya?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Solar shill detected

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Additionally, microinverters deserve a VERY skeptical eye imo. They hide if one panel in your array goes down , youll never know. Expensive as shit too. Dont be fooled by em.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The more expensive inverters all have individual panel status tracking and datalogging. Anyone putting in a decent sized $$ system should be getting this type of reporting.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That's an insane waste of money. You're paying out of the ass for a few percent better performance if you're lucky, if your panels are mounted correctly you're potentially even losing energy to self-consumption of optimizers or microinverters. You need to understand strings and bypass diodes and design the panel arrays right, rather than waste money on meme electronics.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          microinverters and optimizers are very efficient. large residential rooftop arrays can never be 100% optimized for position and microinverters and optimizers allow you to make the best of the situation. your entire string doesn't suffer because of a few bad panels.
          it's more expensive but to some people it's worth it for the higher efficiency.

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